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[Spoilers] Multiple Pokemon Universes Theory

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Spoilers for those of you who have not finished S&M

May have gone to deep for this one but humor me :p

Anabel aside from looking fine as hell now
bb1.jpg

Returns in Sun and Moon and unlike the other cameos she has a little story plot to herself, she lost her memories ten years ago and randomly appeared in Alola, this was explained as she had come through an ultra worm hole, doesn't this sound alittle familiar? Remember Lookers seemingly Random appearance in oras?

The first thing we know is Anabel came here ten years ago (which is near the ball park of how long its been since emerald, it came out in october 2004 so 12 yearsish which is pretty close) So first thing we can assume is maybe a 10 year gap between hoenn and Sun and moon? Which even if we use the red and blue timeline same time argument it still works, as they are looking like they're in their 20's and they were 10 in the original (red was 11) so ten year time gap seems likely.

R/S=Red/Blue--3 years--G/S--5 years? (based on bye bye a go go rocket grunt having a child around that age)--b/w-2years--bw2=x/y--months maybe--S&M

But anyway aside from the timeline we can also assume something happened in Hoenn (emerald universe) where Anabel was sucked into an ultra wormhole biggest hint for this is her theme.

Oras battle brain theme:


Anabels theme sun and moon:


Notice how oras is remixed but Sun and moon its the emerald theme:


When did this happen before? Suicunes theme in oras is a direct rip from crystal which the assumed reason is because hoopa grabbed suicune from crystals universe. This can't even be chalked up to laziness as the theme was remixed in HG/SS (altough nostalgia is a factor)

Now that I've established that Anabel is from the emerald universe lets look (bada dum dun tiss) at looker in oras. In oras Looker just like Anabel has lost his memories and Looker Theory Debunked

A NPC saying he heard a splash but no flying pokemon no ship nothing. What if he fell out of an ultra worm hole? The looker we see in sun and moon recalls or atleast doesn't mention anything about losing his memory and being in hoenn. So What if theres multiple lookers? The looker we see in Platnuim and black/white thats from the non mega timeline gets sucked into an ultra worm hole and appears in hoenn's mega timeline, the anabel from emerald (non mega timeline) is also sucked into a worm hole and transported to the mega timeline universe(s).

This means there are two anabel and two lookers somewhere in the mega timeline

In sun and moon in Alola Looker is an international police agent. in Hoenn he may have taken Anabels place as the tower battle brain leaving Anabel as a regular trainer in Hoenn but an international police member in Alola. Meanwhile in the non mega timeline Looker and Anabel are missing.

Would also mean Hoopa can use its rings to open worm holes like Solgaleo and Lunala (it does have a move caled hyperspace fury too)

This might be a little hidden plot that started the moment Zinnia mentioned the multiple universes, (Or in universe when AZ fired his weapon.) Each game is its own universe and you can trade with each other over wifi (or link cable) but what if by trading over wifi so often you've begun to create a rip between the universes where ultra beasts live and thats why this only started after hoenn when the games first started becoming wireless (although not completely wireless 3rd gen had a device to trade without the wire). Will this ever amount to anything? Probably not I'm a fan rambling on about some secret plot that trading without link cables is slowly ripping apart space so ultra beasts can enter our world (like when UB01 appears at aether randomly) and maybe this plot could come to a head with Diamond and Pearl sequels rather then remakes where this is a plot point and dialga and Palkia fix the holes in space and time.

Or I'm just Nuts :p

Edit however looker in oras has the audinoite so maybe hes from a future game where he gets sucked into an ultra wormhole? in that case we see where future looker ends up at the begining of the timeline in oras and then goes to sinoh until hes sucked in again its a time loop :O

For anabel I still se it as being two of her somewhere in the mega timeline.
 
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R/S=Red/Blue--3 years--G/S--5 years? (based on bye bye a go go rocket grunt having a child around that age)--b/w-2years--bw2=x/y--months maybe--S&M

For what it's worth, Grimsley's concept art in the official guidebook describes his appearance as being "two years later," which would seem to indicate that SM are set two years after B2W2/XY.

This might be a little hidden plot that started the moment Zinnia mentioned the multiple universes, (Or in universe when AZ fired his weapon.)

Probably. Ohmori being the director in charge of both ORAS and SM makes me more than a little suspicious. Although the thought of AZ's weapons being the "point of divergence" between universes is a bit of a misnomer - Zinnia tells us that the ancient Kalosian war never happened in the other universe to begin with. Without the war, the weapon never even gets built, as she said.

Jumping over for a moment to speculate - maybe AZ himself is the variable? If he'd never ushered in an age of technological progress and prosperity in Kalos, then potentially, it'd have never been targeted for its wealth and would never have been swallowed by war.

Maybe the Oldverse's AZ fell into a wormhole, too.

Each game is its own universe and you can trade with each other over wifi (or link cable) but what if by trading over wifi so often you've begun to create a rip between the universes

This doesn't actually seem all that crazy when you consider that the Space Center scientists were going to open a warp hole using a Link Cable.
 
For what it's worth, Grimsley's concept art in the official guidebook describes his appearance as being "two years later," which would seem to indicate that SM are set two years after B2W2/XY.



Probably. Ohmori being the director in charge of both ORAS and SM makes me more than a little suspicious. Although the thought of AZ's weapons being the "point of divergence" between universes is a bit of a misnomer - Zinnia tells us that the ancient Kalosian war never happened in the other universe to begin with. Without the war, the weapon never even gets built, as she said.

Jumping over for a moment to speculate - maybe AZ himself is the variable? If he'd never ushered in an age of technological progress and prosperity in Kalos, then potentially, it'd have never been targeted for its wealth and would never have been swallowed by war.

Maybe the Oldverse's AZ fell into a wormhole, too.



This doesn't actually seem all that crazy when you consider that the Space Center scientists were going to open a warp hole using a Link Cable.
Sure they're not referring to his time skip from bw-bw2? Altough since he's a bum now he ay have lost all his money on gambling between bw2 and now. What does his dialogue suggest? I haven't battled him yet.
 
Sure they're not referring to his time skip from bw-bw2? Altough since he's a bum now he ay have lost all his money on gambling between bw2 and now. What does his dialogue suggest? I haven't battled him yet.

I haven't fought him in the Battle Tree so I don't know about that. What he says on Route 15 is mostly just his lines from Gen V being recycled.
 
I still don't believe the multi-universe theory in the pokemon game franchise. Not enough substantial evidence to prove it. Zinnia is someone that I don't trust so I am not taking her word on it. The only thing that might be some kind of proof is where you enter the portal to change the time of the game from day/night but I am not sure if that is an actual portal to another universe.
 
It really does seem like they've come from the pre gen 6 universe... although if it's the Ultra Beasts causing it them why didn't we see them in gen 3-5 :p.
 
Sure they're not referring to his time skip from bw-bw2? Altough since he's a bum now he ay have lost all his money on gambling between bw2 and now. What does his dialogue suggest? I haven't battled him yet.
makes no sense to refer to the BW-BW2 time gap since 1) we already knew it was two years between BW and BW2, and 2) BW -> BW2 causes no change in Grimsley's appearance at all.
 
I still don't believe the multi-universe theory in the pokemon game franchise. Not enough substantial evidence to prove it. Zinnia is someone that I don't trust so I am not taking her word on it. The only thing that might be some kind of proof is where you enter the portal to change the time of the game from day/night but I am not sure if that is an actual portal to another universe.

It's not just Zinnia, dude

There's a guy in Opelucid in BW who asks to see a Pokémon that knows Charge, but first says that he's heard about another world where Opelucid looks completely different from the Opelucid that he lives in, and stipulates that the Pokémon he's asking to see has to come from that world (i.e., the opposite version from what you're playing).

The exact dialogue is as follows:

> "I've heard that in another world, there's another Opelucid City that looks very old-timey/futuristic. If there is a Pokémon from that world that knows the move Charge, the machine may work."

Indeed, when you bring him a Pokémon that knows Charge from the opposite version, his machine is able to work. That is literally scientific evidence right there.

In SM, Looker outright says that his previous Faller teammate came from another world.
 
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It's not just Zinnia, dude

There's a guy in Opelucid in BW who asks to see a Pokémon that knows Charge, but first says that he's heard about another world where Opelucid looks completely different from the Opelucid that he lives in, and stipulates that the Pokémon he's asking to see has to come from that world (i.e., the opposite version from what you're playing).

The text from Black Version is,

> "I've heard that in another world, there's another Opelucid City that looks very old-timey. If there is a Pokémon from that world that knows the move Charge, the machine may work."

Indeed, when you bring him a Pokémon that knows Charge from the opposite version, his machine is able to work. That is literally scientific evidence right there.

In SM, Looker outright says that his previous Faller teammate came from another world.
Alright then. I guess there is a multiverse. But I taking the word of other characters of the games and not Zinnia.
 
Alright then. I guess there is a multiverse. But I taking the word of other characters of the games and not Zinnia.

That's fine, though it doesn't make what Zinnia said any less true.

Edit - Technobabble Warning: Of course, that being said - I actually don't think that the portal at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone leads to a different universe. I think what's going on there is something more nuanced/subtle, and what we're really doing is more like peeling back the temporal influence of our respective box mascot and peering into an underlying dimension where we can see the recessive influence of the other beast. Because the only details that change between the two "worlds" are the properties of the Altar/Lake. Meanwhile, the book at Malie Library stays the same, the version exclusives stay the same, and we can't evolve Rockruff or Cosmoem into their opposite forms. What that all suggests to me is that the world on the other side of the Altar is really more of a "mirror" dimension, as opposed to an altogether alternative universe - a mirror dimension in which the influence of the other beast is more apparent, but only on a visual level - substantially, our beast still has the dominant influence. But because we enter the wormhole during the time of day where our beast's influence isn't waxing (that is, Solgaleo can only cross the portal at night, and Lunala can only cross it at day), we're able to sort of peek at the inner workings of the dimensions.

I suppose one could think of this setup as being akin to a bed's boxspring. If you look at it from outside, all you see is the wooden frame, covered in cloth. In, for example, Pokémon Sun, the frame itself is the world under Solgaleo's influence - that solar energy is the ever-present, dominant force that keeps it all together. But underlying that is the influence of Lunala, which is weaker, but still exists - this influence would be the metal wires inside the frame. The wormhole at the Altar would be as if one of the wires got bent and managed to pierce the cloth around the wooden frame - you would then have a way of getting inside the frame and seeing the wires, but it's all still the same "unit" (or "world," in our case), and it's all still contained within the frame (Solgaleo's influence).
 
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I think what we're looking at isn't alternate universes, but alternate timelines of the same universe.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those timelines wasn't the Smash Bros. timeline as well... a timeline where the Pokemon world made contact with other worlds, such as the one of the Mushroom Kingdom and the one where Hyrule is, and the Smash Bros. tournament represents some kind of inter-world competition similar to the real-world Olympics.

Also, I think Mewtwo is the reason for divergence. Team Rocket accidentally created something so dangerous, Arceus was forced to step in and use Celebi's power to fracture the timelines in order to ensure that Team Rocket doesn't accidentally destroy civilization. Unfortunately, as we've seen in every game since then, this temporal fracture has only made for even more chaos and even more worlds in danger. Which is where I think the player character comes in: Someone chosen by Arceus, and maybe even created by him, to clean up the mess.

The reason why I think Mewtwo? From an outside perspective, the fractures didn't exist until the games in which he appears. That's also why I think the player character is chosen to clean up the mess: The first time we get involved in the world, it's dealing with the chaos Team Rocket created.
 
There are three distinct Pokemon universes. Gen I-II, Gen III-V, and Gen VI -Present. The events of the previous games still happen in the megaverse but just slightly different. The exact timeline of events in the megaverse is unclear though. We have little idea as to when the events of Hoenn take place in regards to Kalos.
 
We have little idea as to when the events of Hoenn take place in regards to Kalos.

You know, a while back, after ORAS first came out, some people theorized that ORAS might be in a separate universe from XY, due to the conflicting backstories for Mega Evolution that exist between the two sets of games.

I find that extremely unlikely, especially considering that we see Mr. Bonding's, um, genesis in ORAS. Although on the other hand, the fact that they put a Faller Looker in ORAS but didn't explain the meaning of it outright in SM indicates to me that at the very least, they're aware that we're paying attention to the details and can notice discrepancies. Regardless, let me run with that aforementioned theory for a moment - what if XY and SM comprise one universe (notably, when you receive your Key Stone, Dexio mentions that it feels strange to be talking about Mega Evolution so far from Kalos, which sounds a bit like it's retaining a trace of the "Megas only in Kalos" thing), and then ORAS and Stars will comprise another? If nothing else, this would allow SM to retain some canonical relevance even if Stars is a traditional third version.

It's nuts, but it's a thought that entered my head. And I've had a stressful morning, so I felt like getting some harebrained theory out to distract myself. :p
 
I think what we're looking at isn't alternate universes, but alternate timelines of the same universe.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those timelines wasn't the Smash Bros. timeline as well... a timeline where the Pokemon world made contact with other worlds, such as the one of the Mushroom Kingdom and the one where Hyrule is, and the Smash Bros. tournament represents some kind of inter-world competition similar to the real-world Olympics.

Also, I think Mewtwo is the reason for divergence. Team Rocket accidentally created something so dangerous, Arceus was forced to step in and use Celebi's power to fracture the timelines in order to ensure that Team Rocket doesn't accidentally destroy civilization. Unfortunately, as we've seen in every game since then, this temporal fracture has only made for even more chaos and even more worlds in danger. Which is where I think the player character comes in: Someone chosen by Arceus, and maybe even created by him, to clean up the mess.

The reason why I think Mewtwo? From an outside perspective, the fractures didn't exist until the games in which he appears. That's also why I think the player character is chosen to clean up the mess: The first time we get involved in the world, it's dealing with the chaos Team Rocket created.
Nah mewtwo also randomly appears in kalos but he does nothing there either.
That's fine, though it doesn't make what Zinnia said any less true.

Edit - Technobabble Warning: Of course, that being said - I actually don't think that the portal at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone leads to a different universe. I think what's going on there is something more nuanced/subtle, and what we're really doing is more like peeling back the temporal influence of our respective box mascot and peering into an underlying dimension where we can see the recessive influence of the other beast. Because the only details that change between the two "worlds" are the properties of the Altar/Lake. Meanwhile, the book at Malie Library stays the same, the version exclusives stay the same, and we can't evolve Rockruff or Cosmoem into their opposite forms. What that all suggests to me is that the world on the other side of the Altar is really more of a "mirror" dimension, as opposed to an altogether alternative universe - a mirror dimension in which the influence of the other beast is more apparent, but only on a visual level - substantially, our beast still has the dominant influence. But because we enter the wormhole during the time of day where our beast's influence isn't waxing (that is, Solgaleo can only cross the portal at night, and Lunala can only cross it at day), we're able to sort of peek at the inner workings of the dimensions.

I suppose one could think of this setup as being akin to a bed's boxspring. If you look at it from outside, all you see is the wooden frame, covered in cloth. In, for example, Pokémon Sun, the frame itself is the world under Solgaleo's influence - that solar energy is the ever-present, dominant force that keeps it all together. But underlying that is the influence of Lunala, which is weaker, but still exists - this influence would be the metal wires inside the frame. The wormhole at the Altar would be as if one of the wires got bent and managed to pierce the cloth around the wooden frame - you would then have a way of getting inside the frame and seeing the wires, but it's all still the same "unit" (or "world," in our case), and it's all still contained within the frame (Solgaleo's influence).
I kind of thought of it as traveling to moons universe but by doing this you'd possibly run into yourself so I guess a mirror dimension would work.

Also to the post that asked about gens 1-5 in gen 1 and 2 the glitches are the manfestations of the worm holes influence andin gen 3 we don't see it but anabel is sucked into a worm hole, gen 4 has palkia and dialga and they can fix the worm holes at will gen 5 the differnces between black and white are mentioned by ingame characters.

Also before gen 4 we didn't even have wifi trading the link canle wasn't replaced until diamond and pearl (save for the one device you cpuld use on your gameboy advance that came with fire red)
 
Nah mewtwo also randomly appears in kalos but he does nothing there either.

Different timeline group, different apocalypse to avert. In this case, one involving a weapon that, likely, didn't exist in Red-Blue timelines.
 
I'm not an overly massive fan of how all the games prior to X and Y are being relegated to some alternate timeline thing, and Gen VII hasn't helped my opinion on this matter. I'd have been a bit more receptive to the concept if it were introduced by someone like Steven or Professor Cozmo instead of a woman whose mental state I personally question.
 
I'm not an overly massive fan of how all the games prior to X and Y are being relegated to some alternate timeline thing, and Gen VII hasn't helped my opinion on this matter. I'd have been a bit more receptive to the concept if it were introduced by someone like Steven or Professor Cozmo instead of a woman whose mental state I personally question.
To me it's not as much about Zinnia saying it as it is about Game Freak bothering to include that particular kind of statement into the games.
 
Please note: The thread is from 7 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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