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Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

CrystaI

The Pokemon Observer
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Referred back to these thread:
Pokemon SM is NOT continuation of XY(&Z)
PREVIEW: - M20: I Choose You!

With the current M20 information become a big debate on the possibility that it is an alternative universe, what about the TV series? Is the Ash Ketchum we are seeing currently in SM saga the same Ash Ketchum in the past? Is he a new character just with the same name and skin and selective background as his predecessor? Or is he still the same character consistent throughout the entire span of 20 years of Pokemon Anime?

Of course, someone believed it to be so and some don't and some just refuse to accept this fact(may be it is not fact yet?) So this is the thread for the discussion of Anime's continuity. This thread is not only limited to the change from XY(&Z) to SM nor M20, it also includes anything during the entire run of Pokemon Anime in this 20 years that makes one doubt about its universal consistency. So one is welcome to bring in discussion also from OS/AG/DP/BW or anything related to the Pokemon Anime.
 
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Reiterating:

Silktree said:
It all adds up.

1. XYZ ended with "And to our own way" rather than the typical "Next time, a new beginning!"
2. The sound director said that SM was not a continuation of XYZ, with Ash and Pikachu being new characters.
3. Ash's change from XYZ to SM is jarring.
4. The trailer describes the movie as Ash's origin story.
5. The manga promoting the movie has SM Ash recall the beginning of the movie (with his movie hat and Rainbow Wing).
6. At least half of the writers left after XYZ. Nothing like that has happened before.
7. In the recent Ash/Pikachu episode, the only thing Ash mentioned about his past is that he got Pikachu from Oak.

If you look at them separately they may not be convincing (except for the second point which is fairly clear cut), but as a whole?
 
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Each of the points, (except the first and second) has some reason to be unconvincing
3. Ash's change from XYZ to SM is jarring.
Ash's change from DP to BW was jarring.

4. The trailer describes the movie as Ash's origin story.
It's most likely an AU, a retelling or the like.

5. The manga promoting the movie has SM Ash recall the beginning of the movie (with his movie hat and Rainbow Wing).
The manga promoting the movie, like the movie, is likely a retelling or an AU.

6. At least half of the writers left after XYZ. Nothing like that has happened before.
Maybe they weren't satisfied with the direction of the anime and left? Or the anime cast maybe wanted new blood in the form of new writers? Or the anime just got a budget cut.

7. In the recent Ash/Pikachu episode, the only thing Ash mentioned about his past is that he got Pikachu from Oak.
The anime mostly glosses over the past these days. It is just possible that the writers didn't want to confuse the children or something. And it dosen't prove that the things didn't happen. Ash didn't say that these things happened, but he didn't deny them either.

If you look at them separately they may not be convincing (except for the second point which is fairly clear cut), but as a whole?
Overall, to me, they reflect that the anime is trying to reduce continuity.
 
The first two points are honestly enough. But the rest add more context.

It's most likely an AU, a retelling or the like.
In regard to the original series. As far as SM is concerned, the movie is the relevant origin story. Nothing indicates otherwise.

The manga promoting the movie, like the movie, is likely a retelling or an AU.
Why would a manga promoting a movie strongly imply that it takes place in the same continuity as SM, unless it was true? Explain the rationale.
 
In regard to the original series. As far as SM is concerned, the movie is the relevant origin story. Nothing indicates otherwise.
The movie is advertised as a retelling of Ash's original adventure, if I'm not mistaken.

Why would a manga promoting a movie strongly imply that it takes place in the same continuity as SM, unless it was true? Explain the rationale.
There are 2 possible reasons:
1. SM is the most recent anime. They just used it as a base for the movie. I cannot imagine them hunting out BW, XY or DP adventures when they're clearly not recent.

2. What if in the manga's retelling version
Movie events happen, ash completes Kanto journey, and the rest of the adventures happen as usual, ending in SM as usual.
 
The movie is advertised as a retelling of Ash's original adventure, if I'm not mistaken.
It most certainly is not. You can't just pretend otherwise when the trailer itself calls it an origin story.

1. SM is the most recent anime. They just used it as a base for the movie. I cannot imagine them hunting out BW, XY or DP adventures when they're clearly not recent.
You say that as if the manga needed to show anything that is not already in the movie...

Movie events happen, ash completes Kanto journey, and the rest of the adventures happen as usual, ending in SM as usual.
What reason is there to believe this? He has the exact same hat in the manga as he does in the series, while they made a point of not carrying over his original hat to the movie.
 


Here's the trailer.

A quite summary:

This is no retelling, this is essentially a new world and continuity altogether.

With new characters and such.


It most certainly is not. You can't just pretend otherwise when the trailer itself calls it an origin story
Going by the 'quite summary' (since I do not know Japanese), it's described as a 'new world and continuity altogether, which fits in the definition of AU.

What reason is there to believe this? He has the exact same hat in the manga as he does in the series, while they made a point of not carrying over his original hat to the movie.
The reason that Ash's manga hat=SM hat
Ash has got the movie hat when he's in Kanto in the manga. He then change s over hats as usual, till he arrives to Alola with the SM hat.

And in the movie's AU, it is possible that Ash didn't win his original hat (he was shown to win it, not given by his mom), and thus his mom had to give him one, which is the movie hat.
 
Going by the 'quite summary' (since I do not know Japanese), it's described as a 'new world and continuity altogether, which fits in the definition of AU.
Yeah, no. With all due respect to Shadao, he doesn't know Japanese. He was just pointing out the obvious: It is not a retelling of the original series. That has nothing to do with SM.

The Japanese text says: "Did you know? About how these two first met..."

That means that they're advertising the movie as an origin story.

And in the movie's AU, it is possible that Ash didn't win his original hat (he was shown to win it, not given by his mom), and thus his mom had to give him one, which is the movie hat.
So only his Kanto hat is different? Come on now.
 
So only his Kanto hat is different? Come on now.
That hat has technically the most chance to be different. You're less likely to a lottery twice (Ash got the hat from a lottery or something), than your mother changing your hat's pattern (since the rest of the hats were given by Deila, and not won)
 
I'm sorry, but lol. We are talking about a symbolic decision; it has nothing to do with probability.

It matters.
In the Universe we know before the movie, Ash won his hat from a lottery, so Deila didn't have to make one. Ash one from atleast 1000 applicants, which is quite rare.

In this continuity, Ash also applied for the lottery. In this one, he didn't win for some reason, and Deila had to make him one, which is the Movie Hat.

Symbolic decisions can be explained though logic. The one I provided is a much more plausible explanation than it being a separate continuity,
 
I wouldn't say that the writers don't remember how he got the hat. More like that it isn't relevant in this circumstance.

Honestly, I find it baffling that people are questioning the manga itself and considering it an AU of another AU. While it is true that the manga may not be a 100% copy of the movie, past mangas have been very accurate and very close to the final products, so I don't see why it would be any different in this case.

Besides, why would they even allow an artist to pull such kind of connection between SM and M20 if there wasn't some reason behind it? I doubt seriously that they would simply allow someone to do this just because. Artists have some freedom in their work, sure, but they always have to follow a predetermined plot and instructions, which come from the higher charges. As such, I bet that the connection between the series and the movie has been already made by the anime staff working on them.

I find it quite hard to believe that they would try to mislead the audience in such way. We are led to believe by the trailers and summaries that the movie illustrates the meeting between Ash and Pikachu, and the manga is leading us toward a SM event that triggers the whole flashback of said meeting. It should be pretty straightforward reasoning, and I kinda doubt that there are obscure implications and false clues behind all of this.
 
Personally, I still feel it is too early to say that this is an entirely new Ash. I know that there has been a lot to suggest that it is a new universe, but the fact that he mentioned his Tauros in the first episode of Sun and Moon still sticks out to me. That right there is just enough to suggest that this is still the same old Ash for me. Regardless, I'm still going to wait for more information before forming a solid opinion myself.
 
Not only does he mention Tauros but (someone has probably pointed this out already but I haven't read the last thread) but also in SM001 in the Lottery Flashback scene we see Ash give 5 pokeballs to Professor Oak. This includes Greninja's and Goodra's empty pokeballs, as well as Talonflame, Noivern, and Hawlucha.
We don't know what Pokemon are in those balls. They could very well belong to his new Kanto team.

I get that it was natural to assume the balls were a reference to Kalos, but by now? Not by a long shot.
 
Not only does he mention Tauros but (someone has probably pointed this out already but I haven't read the last thread) but also in SM001 in the Lottery Flashback scene we see Ash give 5 pokeballs to Professor Oak. This includes Greninja's and Goodra's empty pokeballs, as well as Talonflame, Noivern, and Hawlucha.
That could have easily been his Kantou team or any other team.
 
A quote I got in the other thread made me think that maybe they aren't just throwing out 20 years of Anime out the window. Maybe the whole point of this "new Ash" is to tie in with the SuMo story and the alternate universes you visit by going through the Altars of Sunne and Moone. New Ash is on one side, and Our Ash is on the other. So we could still see him again if there are really separate continuities because I couldn't imagine TPC not having them meet~
 
Please note: The thread is from 7 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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