Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon Confirmed

[PkmnTrainerV]

I don't think you have really read that much in detail, granted I realize my source is the Rumors/Fakes/Leaks thread, but here you go:

Rumours/Fakes/Leaks Discussion Thread (V2)

The post in question is just speculation. And the leak mentioning team rainbow definitely didn't give any unused codes as evidence, iirc. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

 

[godiego]

Did you miss the part in SM where Nanu pretty much gets the character access to Po Town?

In the same in-game location I referenced, there is an old woman next to the person that state what I quoted above and said the same thing as you, she didn't understand the reasoning behind why the Tapus chose the Kahunas they have chosen, so right there is a pretty big hint about Nanu's past.

but we don't need a big hint about Nanu's past because we essentially have it. Nanu is a police officer and former officer for INTERPOL (you know, he's Looker's former boss). we know where he was ten years prior too, still at INTERPOL. and we know why he's at Po Town to begin with: he's keeping an eye on Team Skull.

yeah there's still some holes, but it seems obvious that whoever was leading proto-Team Skull was not Nanu.

I'm pretty sure I read here on these very forums about there being space in the code for another Team.

if there were actually placeholder code for another team, people would be talking about it. all there was was a single placeholder trainer's eyes bgm that was (obviously) empty and unused, which the uploader of the video speculated that it could belong to another team. the notion of Team Rainbow seems very weak, especially considering that it comes from the "one year later alternate universe" theory.

 

[Soki]

If proto-Team Skull was led by an 'old' Kahuna, it doesn't really make sense for it to be Nanu as he's a current Kahuna. Or was he a Kahuna, then he messed up, and then he was made a Kahuna again? Doesn't seem very likely to me really. At least I'm reading 'old kahuna' as 'previous kahuna' and not literally 'old' as in age. Even then, Nanu might be an older adult but he hardly qualifies as a grandpa or something, I wouldn't really call him 'old' And proto-Team Skull was some time ago, so he definitely wouldn't qualify as old then.

So yeah nothing about 'old Kahuna' screams Nanu to me.

 

[Niyuura]

If proto-Team Skull was led by an 'old' Kahuna, it doesn't really make sense for it to be Nanu as he's a current Kahuna. Or was he a Kahuna, then he messed up, and then he was made a Kahuna again? Doesn't seem very likely to me really. At least I'm reading 'old kahuna' as 'previous kahuna' and not literally 'old' as in age. Even then, Nanu might be an older adult but he hardly qualifies as a grandpa or something, I wouldn't really call him 'old' And proto-Team Skull was some time ago, so he definitely wouldn't qualify as old then.

So yeah nothing about 'old Kahuna' screams Nanu to me.

I think it means previous Kahuna as well. It sure doesn't explain how Guzma came to be.. I thought he was a rejected captain at best..so what happened to the old leader if they were a Kahuna? Weird stuff...

 

[Rosalia R]

I think it means previous Kahuna as well. It sure doesn't explain how Guzma came to be.. I thought he was a rejected captain at best..so what happened to the old leader if they were a Kahuna? Weird stuff...

According to a Team Skull Grunt on Route 13:

"Team Skull was formed outta this old group that once formed around one of the old kahunas. But that whole thing fell apart after they got smacked down by the wrath of the tapu!"

The phrase "smacked down by the wrath of the tapu" seems to imply that violence was involved, and seeing as the tapu choose the kahunas of their respective islands, it's possible that the tapu said kahuna previously served felt betrayed and either forcibly removed them from the position of kahuna, or, possibly, flat out killed them.

And it may be a coincidence, but we're told in the game that Hapu's grandfather passed away a while back, leaving Poni Island without a kahuna. It's also possible that it was the kahuna of Ula'Ula Island, since Team Skull is especially active there, and Nanu probably wasn't the kahuna back when he worked with the UB task force. This is actually the one question about Alola's past that I most want answered in USM; there's so much information to speculate off of but nothing to conclusively prove any theory.

 

[Niyuura]

According to a Team Skull Grunt on Route 13:

"Team Skull was formed outta this old group that once formed around one of the old kahunas. But that whole thing fell apart after they got smacked down by the wrath of the tapu!"

The phrase "smacked down by the wrath of the tapu" seems to imply that violence was involved, and seeing as the tapu choose the kahunas of their respective islands, it's possible that the tapu said kahuna previously served felt betrayed and either forcibly removed them from the position of kahuna, or, possibly, flat out killed them.

And it may be a coincidence, but we're told in the game that Hapu's grandfather passed away a while back, leaving Poni Island without a kahuna. It's also possible that it was the kahuna of Ula'Ula Island, since Team Skull is especially active there, and Nanu probably wasn't the kahuna back when he worked with the UB task force. This is actually the one question about Alola's past that I most want answered in USM; there's so much information to speculate off of but nothing to conclusively prove any theory.

That makes things so much more exciting tbh...This is one of the things I disliked in SM..they had so much potential for cool lore and interesting insights..they left it all unfinished and without development or answer.. geez. I hope USM delivers

Also, I thought it was Hapu's grandmother and not grandfather but maybe I'm just misremembering (or confusing with Zinnia).. I do think the Kahuna was from UlaUla though.. I also wanna know how skull managed to take over Po Town and why nobody was even there to stop them..so many things....so little insight

 

[Rosalia R]

That makes things so much more exciting tbh...This is one of the things I disliked in SM..they had so much potential for cool lore and interesting insights..they left it all unfinished and without development or answer.. geez. I hope USM delivers

Also, I thought it was Hapu's grandmother and not grandfather but maybe I'm just misremembering (or confusing with Zinnia).. I do think the Kahuna was from UlaUla though.. I also wanna know how skull managed to take over Po Town and why nobody was even there to stop them..so many things....so little insight

Quote from Hapu after becoming kahuna: "My grandfather... My grandfather was also chosen for this honor. The honor of being our island's kahuna. But he died suddenly some years back, and we were left without a kahuna on Poni."

I'm a bit different from most people when it comes to unanswered lore questions. One of the reasons I liked XY far more than the average fan was because it set up an interesting basis of lore, then left so much unexplored that it allowed for tons of headcanons and theories. But I was also hoping for a Z version or a sequel or even a prequel for Kalos, to put some of those theories to the test and give all the well-designed and unique but underdeveloped characters the depth they deserved. I also wasn't to impressed by Kalos for a while, though, so I know where people who disliked those games are coming from.

I'm confident that USM will give us more about the history of Ultra Beasts in Alola and clarification about Necrozma, as well as hopefully a bit more info on the Aether Foundation. I definitely see what you mean about unfinished lore, though; I just don't want to judge it too harshly until the generation is over.

Oh well, most of this is very off topic. It seems almost unanimously agreed that we'll get a trailer this August; what are we expecting that trailer to contain?

 

[Niyuura]

Quote from Hapu after becoming kahuna: "My grandfather... My grandfather was also chosen for this honor. The honor of being our island's kahuna. But he died suddenly some years back, and we were left without a kahuna on Poni."

I'm a bit different from most people when it comes to unanswered lore questions. One of the reasons I liked XY far more than the average fan was because it set up an interesting basis of lore, then left so much unexplored that it allowed for tons of headcanons and theories. But I was also hoping for a Z version or a sequel or even a prequel for Kalos, to put some of those theories to the test and give all the well-designed and unique but underdeveloped characters the depth they deserved. I also wasn't to impressed by Kalos for a while, though, so I know where people who disliked those games are coming from.

I'm confident that USM will give us more about the history of Ultra Beasts in Alola and clarification about Necrozma, as well as hopefully a bit more info on the Aether Foundation. I definitely see what you mean about unfinished lore, though; I just don't want to judge it too harshly until the generation is over.

Oh well, most of this is very off topic. It seems almost unanimously agreed that we'll get a trailer this August; what are we expecting that trailer to contain?

I believe we were told to take any form of speculation and whatnot to this topic, so it seems to be enough in line with the topic .. I mean, at least my intention was speculation about what kind of things USM could touch upon and answer by seeing what SM left behind

Somewhere deep inside, I secretly hope that one day we will see a return back to Kalos for a deserved prequel/sequel/literally anything to improve the state the games were left in.. I'd love to see the rumored South Kalos for example..

I'm expecting stock/concept art for the protagonists and confirming whether they're somehow the same characters (99% certain they are still Elio/Selene), some form of region map and lycanroc form if it is gonna exist

 

[Bolt Strike]

Oh well, most of this is very off topic. It seems almost unanimously agreed that we'll get a trailer this August; what are we expecting that trailer to contain?

-The basic premise and to what degree the game has changed. What is the exact nature of this "alternate universe", is it just a third version with a few upgrades or are there more radical changes in the game?
-An updated map of Alola showing some of the changes to the region.
-Updated designs of the protagonists, Hau, Lillie, and other early game characters.
-Details on the new Necrozma forms.
-Probably a few new Alola forms.

 

[Rosalia R]

I believe we were told to take any form of speculation and whatnot to this topic, so it seems to be enough in line with the topic .. I mean, at least my intention was speculation about what kind of things USM could touch upon and answer by seeing what SM left behind

Somewhere deep inside, I secretly hope that one day we will see a return back to Kalos for a deserved prequel/sequel/literally anything to improve the state the games were left in.. I'd love to see the rumored South Kalos for example..

I'm expecting stock/concept art for the protagonists and confirming whether they're somehow the same characters (99% certain they are still Elio/Selene), some form of region map and lycanroc form if it is gonna exist

I'm split on them still being Elio/Selene. On the one hand, the male characters in particular have very similar color schemes and both of the female characters wear a floral shirt with shorts and a similar-shaped bag, but their designs also seem much more different compared to the redesigns Brendan, May, Lucas, and Dawn got for their third versions - those four all kept the exact same hairstyle, type of hat, and essentially the same articles of clothing. Meanwhile Elio and Selene appear to get different hairstyles (this is more obvious with the female trainer), very different hats, and different styles of clothing that change in more than just color and suitability for certain types of weather.

Just contrast Dawn between DP and Platinum with Selene from SM to USM. Dawn's Platinum jacket is clearly based off of her DP dress, and she wears her hair pretty much the same way. Her hat is completely unchanged, and she continues to wear a scarf, albeit a different one. New!Selene's entire design isn't visible, but her hat and hair are completely different and her shirt isn't that similar to the original one.

The male trainer does maintain a similar red and blue motif, but his hat and shorts change pretty drastically, leading me to feel like this is a Nate and Rosa situation with the protags. But then again, USM are relatively unprecedented and GameFreak is weird, so they could very well be the same characters regardless of all of this.

 

[Niyuura]

I'm split on them still being Elio/Selene. On the one hand, the male characters in particular have very similar color schemes and both of the female characters wear a floral shirt with shorts and a similar-shaped bag, but their designs also seem much more different compared to the redesigns Brendan, May, Lucas, and Dawn got for their third versions - those four all kept the exact same hairstyle, type of hat, and essentially the same articles of clothing. Meanwhile Elio and Selene appear to get different hairstyles (this is more obvious with the female trainer), very different hats, and different styles of clothing that change in more than just color and suitability for certain types of weather.

Just contrast Dawn between DP and Platinum with Selene from SM to USM. Dawn's Platinum jacket is clearly based off of her DP dress, and she wears her hair pretty much the same way. Her hat is completely unchanged, and she continues to wear a scarf, albeit a different one. New!Selene's entire design isn't visible, but her hat and hair are completely different and her shirt isn't that similar to the original one.

The male trainer does maintain a similar red and blue motif, but his hat and shorts change pretty drastically, leading me to feel like this is a Nate and Rosa situation with the protags. But then again, USM are relatively unprecedented and GameFreak is weird, so they could very well be the same characters regardless of all of this.

I am mostly thinking they're the same because their models just look identical...Imean uh.. grey eyes, black hair, they didn't even bother changing the colors, just the style and outfits. They also have the same bangs which makes me think they just redesigned them more elaborately. I'd want nothing more than to have them be different characters though, gives hope for these games not being simple 3rd versions split in 2

 

[Plubio]

Honestly I just want to see something about USUM, I don't care what.
It's Pokémon I'm still going to buy it anyway, soooo.........

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm split on them still being Elio/Selene. On the one hand, the male characters in particular have very similar color schemes and both of the female characters wear a floral shirt with shorts and a similar-shaped bag, but their designs also seem much more different compared to the redesigns Brendan, May, Lucas, and Dawn got for their third versions - those four all kept the exact same hairstyle, type of hat, and essentially the same articles of clothing. Meanwhile Elio and Selene appear to get different hairstyles (this is more obvious with the female trainer), very different hats, and different styles of clothing that change in more than just color and suitability for certain types of weather.

Just contrast Dawn between DP and Platinum with Selene from SM to USM. Dawn's Platinum jacket is clearly based off of her DP dress, and she wears her hair pretty much the same way. Her hat is completely unchanged, and she continues to wear a scarf, albeit a different one. New!Selene's entire design isn't visible, but her hat and hair are completely different and her shirt isn't that similar to the original one.

The male trainer does maintain a similar red and blue motif, but his hat and shorts change pretty drastically, leading me to feel like this is a Nate and Rosa situation with the protags. But then again, USM are relatively unprecedented and GameFreak is weird, so they could very well be the same characters regardless of all of this.

Well remember, SM has character customization, so just changing up the outfits like they did with previous games isn't really going to be enough to tell them apart. That's probably why they went more elaborate with the outfits and hairstyles, so they're different enough that they don't just like look new customization options for SM instead of a new game. Considering that the characters have the same body types, facial features, etc., they probably are Elio/Selene.

 

[godiego]

Also, I thought it was Hapu's grandmother and not grandfather but maybe I'm just misremembering (or confusing with Zinnia).. I do think the Kahuna was from UlaUla though.. I also wanna know how skull managed to take over Po Town and why nobody was even there to stop them..so many things....so little insight

that's Game Freak and the base's MO though. Game Freak drops a random tid bit, doesn't expand, the base goes wild over the possible implications. (case and point: the moondial, "South Kalos" (eyeroll), proto-Team Skull?)

I'm split on them still being Elio/Selene. On the one hand, the male characters in particular have very similar color schemes and both of the female characters wear a floral shirt with shorts and a similar-shaped bag, but their designs also seem much more different compared to the redesigns Brendan, May, Lucas, and Dawn got for their third versions - those four all kept the exact same hairstyle, type of hat, and essentially the same articles of clothing. Meanwhile Elio and Selene appear to get different hairstyles (this is more obvious with the female trainer), very different hats, and different styles of clothing that change in more than just color and suitability for certain types of weather.

Just contrast Dawn between DP and Platinum with Selene from SM to USM. Dawn's Platinum jacket is clearly based off of her DP dress, and she wears her hair pretty much the same way. Her hat is completely unchanged, and she continues to wear a scarf, albeit a different one. New!Selene's entire design isn't visible, but her hat and hair are completely different and her shirt isn't that similar to the original one.

The male trainer does maintain a similar red and blue motif, but his hat and shorts change pretty drastically, leading me to feel like this is a Nate and Rosa situation with the protags. But then again, USM are relatively unprecedented and GameFreak is weird, so they could very well be the same characters regardless of all of this.

to be fair, you're also comparing art to in-game model here. naturally there will be a shade of disconnect. plus, that's clearly the same room you live in in the original game.

 

[Desdar300]

That makes things so much more exciting tbh...This is one of the things I disliked in SM..they had so much potential for cool lore and interesting insights..they left it all unfinished and without development or answer.. geez. I hope USM delivers

Also, I thought it was Hapu's grandmother and not grandfather but maybe I'm just misremembering (or confusing with Zinnia).. I do think the Kahuna was from UlaUla though.. I also wanna know how skull managed to take over Po Town and why nobody was even there to stop them..so many things....so little insight

They managed to do it because TS is seen as nothing more than pest by the locals so they probably just flew the coop.
That and Nanu feels they're better off there than off somewhere else causing trouble

 

[Soki]

I still think they could very much be different characters. I mean, regarding all the arguments you're using to say they're the same characters:

- Same grey eyes: Most PC's have the very same grey eyes, you saying they all are the same character?
- Same hair color: Nate/Rosa have the same hair color as Hilbert/Hilda too, and the same eye color too. Still different characters.
- Same body type: ....has there ever been a PC with a different body type?
- Same face: .........has there ever been a PC with a different face?
- They're in the same room: if you look more closely, you'll notice that both their rooms for the most part have different colors than Elio/Selena's room. Might just be because it's a third version, so it got an upgrade, but may also be that GF just doesn't know how to make a room look like a different one except by changing all the colors

You're all somehow mostly forgetting that most PC's look exactly the same, except for different looking hair and clothing mostly. These characters have different looking hair and clothing, why is it suddenly now obvious they're the same characters?

 

[Niyuura]

I still think they could very much be different characters. I mean, regarding all the arguments you're using to say they're the same characters:

- Same grey eyes: Most PC's have the very same grey eyes, you saying they all are the same character?
- Same hair color: Nate/Rosa have the same hair color as Hilbert/Hilda too, and the same eye color too. Still different characters.
- Same body type: ....has there ever been a PC with a different body type?
- Same face: .........has there ever been a PC with a different face?
- They're in the same room: if you look more closely, you'll notice that both their rooms for the most part have different colors than Elio/Selena's room. Might just be because it's a third version, so it got an upgrade, but may also be that GF just doesn't know how to make a room look like a different one except by changing all the colors

You're all somehow mostly forgetting that most PC's look exactly the same, except for different looking hair and clothing mostly. These characters have different looking hair and clothing, why is it suddenly now obvious they're the same characters?

Maybe it's because we are seeing their in-game models with the same 100yard stare and same bangs/hair color/eye color and our mind automatically concludes they can't be another character. We don't have to be right of course, but I assume that's what swirls through our minds when we look at them..

-Yeah, Rosa and Nate had the same hair color and eye color too, but their case is different for a few reasons:
- Different times before customization..we knew that the character design being different meant that the character was different unless we were having a remake with the same character wearing a new outfit. Even Lyra was a different character in HGSS and people were torn whether Crystal got a more severe overhaul, but turned out different hair/eyes = different person
- Rosa/Nate's case again: at least the hair color was a different shade of the same color.. Looking at it, Nate shares Hilda's shade of brown while Rosa is similar to Hilbert's a bit lighter shade of brown.. I guess things were different back then because we had sprites and not full models, so we got to see character official art from the get-go.
-For Nate/Rosa and Hilbert/Hilda , it also further distinguished them as different characters because they had artwork drawn by different artists and different styles. It also helped knowing BW2 are announced as sequels and the characters don't start in the same place as BW
-The same house argument: Well, let's be honest, the only difference from the house in SM is the wall color and the fact that the house is repainted outside and has an open garage door. They clearly redesigned route 1, but it can also be seen just as clearly that it is, in fact, still route 1 of Melemele.
-Unless this alternate story is more than your average third version split in 2 and they somehow are retelling the entire adventure with different characters for the sake of it really being an alt universe...then I don't think there are strong enough arguments to think the characters are different people.
- Another way it would make sense for these characters to be different people is if USM really ARE a kind of what if scenario where time has passed and maybe the SM protag has moved to a different house or something


Overall, I'm sure this is all happening right now because we don't have the official concept art yet, but even without that, it's dubious to think they aren't the same character for more reasons than one has to think they are

 

[Rosalia R]

Kind of changing the topic, but does anyone expect USM to feature more islands? New areas are pretty much confirmed, but I think the only way we'll get an entirely new island is if it's small like Exeggutor Island and thus doesn't warrant a new Oricorio or tapu.

Looking at the map of real-life Hawaii and comparing it to the version of Alola we saw in SM, the islands Hawaii, Maui, Oahu, Kauai, and Niihau are represented by Ula'ula, Akala, Melemele, Poni, and Exeggutor Island, respecitvely. That leaves Molokai, Lanai, and Kahoolawe available for USM's expansion, all three of which are smaller than any of the four main islands and located very close to Maui/Akala.

Akala Island actually got rotated a bit from the way Maui appears in real life, but I feel like any of the three smaller islands could be accessed from Konikoni City's port (which was surprisingly useless in the game, despite the cool pirate ship thing shown nearby in the official map). Since they would be of a size comparable to Niihau/Exeggutor Island, they wouldn't get tapus or kahunas or anything, but could be fun areas to explore.

It's also worth noting that Molokai, the largest of the unused islands, has multiple noteworthy waterfalls, which could mean it's the location of the mysterious Pikachu area shown in the trailer. But the four big islands all have waterfalls of their own that weren't featured in the original SM, so that connection is far from confirmed.

Also, if this hypothetical Molokai-inspired island keeps the color naming theme from SM, it'll be called Oma'oma'o (Green) Island. Doesn't quite roll of the tongue, but neither does Ula'ula. A Lanai island would be Alani (Orange) Island, and Kahoolawe would be Hinahina (Gray) Island.

I'm not counting on new islands, but do I think there's a lot of potential for expanding the region.

edits: fixed a couple typos

 

[Niyuura]

Kind of changing the topic, but does anyone expect USM to feature more islands? New areas are pretty much confirmed, but I think the only way we'll get an entirely new island is if it's small like Exeggutor Island and thus doesn't warrant a new Oricorio or tapu.

View attachment 103322

View attachment 103323

Looking at the map of real-life Hawaii and comparing it to the version of Alola we saw in SM, the islands Hawaii, Maui, Oahu, Kauai, and Niihau are represented by Ula'ula, Akala, Melemele, Poni, and Exeggutor Island, respecitvely. That leaves Molokai, Lanai, and Kahoolawe available for USM's expansion, all three of which are smaller than any of the four main islands and located very close to Maui/Akala.

Akala Island actually got rotated a bit from the way Maui appears in real life, but I feel like any of the three smaller islands could be accessed from Konikoni City's port (which was surprisingly useless in the game, despite the cool pirate ship thing shown nearby in the official map). Since they would be of a size comparable to Niihau/Exeggutor Island, they wouldn't get tapus or kahunas or anything, but could be fun areas to explore.

It's also worth noting that Molokai, the largest of the unused islands, has multiple noteworthy waterfalls, which could mean it's the location of the mysterious Pikachu area shown in the trailer. But the four big islands all have waterfalls of their own that weren't featured in the original SM, so that connection is far from confirmed.

Also, if this hypothetical Molokai-inspired island keeps the color naming theme from SM, it'll be called Oma'oma'o (Green) Island. Doesn't quite roll of the tongue, but neither does Ula'ula. A Lanai island would be Alani (Orange) Island, and Kahoolawe would be Hinahina (Gray) Island.

I'm not counting on new islands, but do I think there's a lot of potential for expanding the region.

edits: fixed a couple typos

Even if they're gonna give us islands as big as melemele only, I'd be happy with that and I still maintain that the clouds on the map could still be indicative of hidden islands.. Also I don't get why people think a new oricorio has to absolutely happen only on a new island.. They change forms via nectar colors and nectar flowers could easily be put anywhere with some excuse that it's an alternate story or that Alola got updated etc

I'm gonna believe until all hope is lost that we will at least get 1 new island..after all, still waiting for dem moondials and that waterfall that flows upwards (which is also in hawaii among other places)

 

[DoctorWhy]

I would like if they gave us the three small islands surrounding Maui (Akala)--which seems to be all we're missing

Also, as another option, I would like to take a ship to somewhere like the Battle Frontier or Sevii Islands.