Spoilers What are your feelings on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon?

[Astro Pantherion]

From a point, the final Pokémon Games of the 3DS aren't as fleshed out, I agree. To me, however, it doesn't really change my decision to get it. I'm still getting it for myself as I like what I have seen from the games.

Spoiler

Heck, I'm happy to see my theory about Necrozma's true form and how it could possibly look like, ended up being true.

In fact, I haven't really managed to play the original Sun at all since I got it for Christmas last year due to be occupied with other stuff. So in essence, to me, not only am I getting to play the better version, but I'm also playing the game still brand new due to not having played Sun more than just getting to the first Pokémon Center, so I haven't experienced anything of the original games.

So I guess I'm lucky. I just need to get someone in which I can sell Pokémon Sun to, or hopefully, my local Game Mania will do another of those trade-in actions so I can pay less for Ultra Sun.

I pretty much have nothing to lose and a lot to win....that is, I hope.

 

[Cybersai]

Spoiler

The fact that there's no new Alola forms blows my mind. The one thing they could have put in to add incentive to buy this and they don't even bother. So what the hell was the point of this new concept given how little of them they're in the game?

At least with the Mega's they made a big deal out of them, then ORAS added even more of them before they cast them aside.

 

[Soki]

Please put every info that comes from the datamine in spoiler tags, thankss.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I might buy the game used eventually, it doesn't sound interesting enough for me to buy new.

I've found the 3DS era of Pokemon underwhelming and I'm glad it's ending.

 

[Borjitasstoi]

First of all my reaction its "what is this?"
2 minutes later "ok i hope this is fan game"
appear title directed by game freeak and "1 years for this really? you telling me this is usum"

 

[Chilli Dawg]

Well, as the game(s?) have been datamined to hell, I feel like I can finally come to a conclusion about USUM. Since reveal I had kept an open mind about the pair of games, reserving judgement till more information, and was interested to see what an "alternate universe" would hold. I really believed that USUM were going to be a fully fledged 'alt universe' game, especially with the whole "Darkness of Alola" trailer (which was awesome, btw) and the line "this is not the alola you thought you knew" snatched my interest.

For some reason I held out against the carbon-copy map and cut-scenes shown in the early trailers of the game. I really wanted to think these games were going to be different. After all, we get our starters differently, OMG! /s I was pleased with the reveal of new Ultra Beats but unfortunately dismayed at the lack of Alola forms (which honestly makes no sense. Haven't heard a single good reason). An expansion of the Alola forms would have had me sold. Shame :/

And with the reveal of the datamine things looked worse. The story is virtually the same as Sun/Moon up to the climax, with small run ins with the URS and forced lines regarding Necrozma shoved into the plot? Really? The phrase "ultra change" sounds like a pretty bad joke. And the battle facility, though I was interested at first, turned out to be a completely disfigured version of the battle factory, which made me lose all interest. Just happy that they at least found it within them to bother making a battle facility to boost replay value...

Rainbow rocket looks sort of cool but from what I've seen it leads nowhere and is just a way to allow you to fight old leaders. At least their themes are great for the most part.

Battle Tree: what is this? FOUR new additions? Surprising IMO that BW2 brought back more old characters than the "20th anniversary" games.

I really hope Ultra Sun/ Ultra Moon are the absolute last for 'upper versions' of Pokemon games. In my opinion, they are a cheap cash grab that adds little of importance to Sun/Moon, and what they did add were events that can be enjoyed only once (except the battle agency) and don't interest me at all. I don't see these games as necessary. SM were, as they were the 20th anniversary games. ORAS were (despite being lacklustre in my opinion), because we've been begging for hoenn remakes since BW. BW2 could be argued to be unnecessary but at least they changed a helluva lot more than USUM could wish to.

Oops. Rant over. Basically I dislike USUM. I'm skipping, but if I were to get a version, I would get it used and dirt cheap like its supposed to be

 

[Deoxysxx]

Well, as the game(s?) have been datamined to hell, I feel like I can finally come to a conclusion about USUM. Since reveal I had kept an open mind about the pair of games, reserving judgement till more information, and was interested to see what an "alternate universe" would hold. I really believed that USUM were going to be a fully fledged 'alt universe' game, especially with the whole "Darkness of Alola" trailer (which was awesome, btw) and the line "this is not the alola you thought you knew" snatched my interest.

For some reason I held out against the carbon-copy map and cut-scenes shown in the early trailers of the game. I really wanted to think these games were going to be different. After all, we get our starters differently, OMG! /s I was pleased with the reveal of new Ultra Beats but unfortunately dismayed at the lack of Alola forms (which honestly makes no sense. Haven't heard a single good reason). An expansion of the Alola forms would have had me sold. Shame :/

And with the reveal of the datamine things looked worse. The story is virtually the same as Sun/Moon up to the climax, with small run ins with the URS and forced lines regarding Necrozma shoved into the plot? Really? The phrase "ultra change" sounds like a pretty bad joke. And the battle facility, though I was interested at first, turned out to be a completely disfigured version of the battle factory, which made me lose all interest. Just happy that they at least found it within them to bother making a battle facility to boost replay value...

Generally all companies do this. They will almost always exaggerate an aspect of a game to make it look good whether it really be deserving of the hype or not. Very few directors or developers are going to come out and say that the game is mediocre and not worth your purchase.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I might buy the game used eventually, it doesn't sound interesting enough for me to buy new.

I've found the 3DS era of Pokemon underwhelming and I'm glad it's ending.

This. I've found the entire 3DS era of Pokemon to be mediocre and I can't list a single one of its games in my Top 3 or maybe even my Top 5. Definitely the darkest period in Pokemon history and I can't wait to close the chapter on this one. It's funny, they said that this game would be the culmination of all of their efforts on the 3DS, but it's also a culmination of all of its flaws (too much focus on casual audiences and story, not enough focus on content and extra areas, inconsistent gameplay and abandoning features too quickly).

 

[Kallyle]

This. I've found the entire 3DS era of Pokemon to be mediocre and I can't list a single one of its games in my Top 3 or maybe even my Top 5. Definitely the darkest period in Pokemon history and I can't wait to close the chapter on this one. It's funny, they said that this game would be the culmination of all of their efforts on the 3DS, but it's also a culmination of all of its flaws (too much focus on casual audiences and story, not enough focus on content and extra areas, inconsistent gameplay and abandoning features too quickly).

Well, they did expect the Switch to fail due to mobile games being successful. Yes, they admitted they were wrong, but they probably weren't in this mindset when they decided to finalize the minimal changes to USUM. Nintendo needs to put their foot down in regards to Pokémon Switch, which was pretty much why we got B2W2 instead of two shades of Gray in the first place.

At this point, I'm convinced Game Freak is spending too much time worrying about making the games looking pretty ever since the games started using 3D models, almost as if Game Freak feels like they have to make things pretty and flashy, even at the expense of more content. If Game Freak is stuck in the mindset of "graphics and coolness factor must priority over everything else or our games won't be any good" because they feel too compelled to do so, then maybe Game Freak should get other companies to help in the graphics department to ease their worries about that and focus on more important aspects of the games.

 

[Esserise]

two shades of Gray

Legend. Thank you for this.

At this point, I'm convinced Game Freak is sending too much time worrying about making the games looking pretty ever since the games started using 3D models, almost as if Game Freak feels like they have to make things pretty and flashy, even at the expense of more content. If Game Freak is stuck in the mindset of "graphics and coolness factor must priority over everything else or our games won't be any good" because they feel too compelled to do so, then maybe Game Freak should get other companies to help in the graphics department to ease their worries about that and focus on more important aspects of the games.

I think that’s probably part of it, although with how woefully barren SM’s locations and dungeons consistently are when this wasn’t so much of a problem just one generation ago, I am forced to believe that they really just can’t do much with the graphical scale of SM on the 3DS. Fortunately, the Switch should be capable of handling all that and far more, so now it’s just a question of whether or not GF will capitalize on that power. Hopefully they do, and I say that even as someone who has been pretty happy with all of the 3DS games, because if they’re moving to the Switch, then I do think they need to get serious about it.

As for their chronic problem with abandoning features... I suspect that they do mean well, and that it mostly comes from a misguided fear that keeping the same features in each game without changing them up will make them feel stale. I can kinda see where they’re coming from, but they overdo it way too much and don’t seem to have a very keen eye for which features would be beneficial to retain.

 

[Gligarman]

I'm sure this would be a nightmare to code for but I was hoping that with USM they would add some kind of feature that would streamline one game if you already beat the other. Seeing as how they sell double packs for these games now it's safe to assume they know that some people get both versions and that second playthrough can be a chore. Nothing too drastic, just maybe letting us skip tutorials or cutscenes.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Well, they did expect the Switch to fail due to mobile games being successful. Yes, they admitted they were wrong, but they probably weren't in this mindset when they decided to finalize the minimal changes to USUM. Nintendo needs to put their foot down in regards to Pokémon Switch, which was pretty much why we got B2W2 instead of two shades of Gray in the first place.

At this point, I'm convinced Game Freak is spending too much time worrying about making the games looking pretty ever since the games started using 3D models, almost as if Game Freak feels like they have to make things pretty and flashy, even at the expense of more content. If Game Freak is stuck in the mindset of "graphics and coolness factor must priority over everything else or our games won't be any good" because they feel too compelled to do so, then maybe Game Freak should get other companies to help in the graphics department to ease their worries about that and focus on more important aspects of the games.

Even with the mentality of mobile gaming being successful, you have to figure that someone who knows the industry well enough wouldn't be foolish enough to think mobile could overtake everything. Mobile gaming attracts a different audience with a different style of gaming, and unless you have hardware and software that appeals to both audiences, you're not going to see one overtake the other. If Game Freak is aware that mobile gamers divide their time between a lot of different things like movies, music, internet, social media, etc. they should've never expected them to buy a gaming centric device like the 3DS. This just shows that Game Freak doesn't understand their market, they probably saw that mobile was hot in the early 2010's and assumed because the majority of gamers were playing mobile, that there was no market for anything else. Which has clearly been proven wrong.

I think that’s probably part of it, although with how woefully barren SM’s locations and dungeons consistently are when this wasn’t so much of a problem just one generation ago, I am forced to believe that they really just can’t do much with the graphical scale of SM on the 3DS. Fortunately, the Switch should be capable of handling all that and far more, so now it’s just a question of whether or not GF will capitalize on that power. Hopefully they do, and I say that even as someone who has been pretty happy with all of the 3DS games, because if they’re moving to the Switch, then I do think they need to get serious about it.

That's probably more Game Freak's fault than the 3DS'. We've seen games on the 3DS at roughly the same graphical level with MUCH larger levels and more content. Considering that this all started when they went 3D they probably weren't prepared to handle the extra workload that came with the jump to 3D graphics and when they upped the graphics again with SM things got even worse.

 

[DoctorWhy]

don’t seem to have a very keen eye for which features would be beneficial to retain.

Ain't that the truth...

Off the top of my head, some big ones imo:
-PSS (this is number one for sure - Festival Plaza is a huge step backwards from the perfection of the PSS)
-Super Training (the most useful form of both EV training and resetting - its removal was a huge loss)
-DexNav (best ORAS feature)
-Battle Frontier
-Walking/Following Pokemon
-the addition of Megas/Alolan forms (though I'll give Megas a break for now - they better return in the next games)
-VS Seeker

 

[Kallyle]

That's probably more Game Freak's fault than the 3DS'. We've seen games on the 3DS at roughly the same graphical level with MUCH larger levels and more content. Considering that this all started when they went 3D they probably weren't prepared to handle the extra workload that came with the jump to 3D graphics and when they upped the graphics again with SM things got even worse.

That’s exactly why I want Game Freak to work with another company on the 3D stuff; Game Freak wasn’t used to the jump to 3D, and it just started to show more and more when we kept getting less and less content each time the graphics got upgraded. Having to catch up to the rest of the 3D gaming world is obviously taking a toll on them, especially sine that seems to be taking more of their time away from lots of engaging features.

That’s why they need the help of another company: getting help with 3D models gives them more time to focus on content and overall design.

 

[Lanstar]

I must say... I'm still withholding judgment on getting one of these games until true reviews come out. However, if it is true that hardly anything really changed in these versions, I will tread even more cautiously.

Again, my reason why was due to how Game Freak advertised so many great features before the original Sun/Moon - but they were not well executed in the actual gameplay. The new additions I see in USUM (I avoid gameplay/story spoilers) may sound cool, but the history of the past games still render me skeptical that they were well designed. This skepticism I have of Game Freak may even go about even upon the switch version, too.

How would they make me less skeptical, and buy me back into a day 1 buyer? ...Well, there are two ways:

1. Finally create a Masterpiece with USUM.
or
2. Revolutionize a huge part of the gameplay in the switch, whether it be the battle system, or the entire pacing of the game.

No offense to everyone: I feel like the gameplay of Pokemon in itself has gotten stale overtime, as it seems like they are redoing the same concepts over and over again in each generation. This is not a healthy sign for the franchise: Many game series often die out or lose traction because they repeatedly put out new games with the same core gameplay.

 

[GhostLucario]

Aside from the obvious lies which we now know aren't true

Spoiler: GF lies

game being twice as long, story being new and very different from SM, denying that there were no new Alola forms when there are no new Alola forms, National Pokedex being in the game etc etc

, the failure to give us any sort of meaningful content (minigames YAY....not), no additional areas and the few added leaving a lot to be desired, discarding the best features for others that are less than ideal...

What really irks me is the fact that we are back to third versions (I refuse to call them "superior"). After Crystal, Emerald and Platinum I decided I wouldn't buy any primary versions and wait for the third game but after having BW2 and then no Z I decided to buy SM in case there was no third version only to be slapped in the face with USUM because I could have skipped them.

I still pre-ordered them because I have nothing else to play (I'm no gamer, I only play pokemon games) and even if a switch game does come out next year I don't have money to but an expensive console just for one game. However I have been generally unhappy with the direction the games have been following. I was glad to see Masuda step down only to be replaced with someone who is even worse. Sorry for ranting but I am very disappointed in all this.

 

[Esserise]

That's probably more Game Freak's fault than the 3DS'. We've seen games on the 3DS at roughly the same graphical level with MUCH larger levels and more content. Considering that this all started when they went 3D they probably weren't prepared to handle the extra workload that came with the jump to 3D graphics and when they upped the graphics again with SM things got even worse.

Well, true. There is also the fact that they’re just not that good.

(Neither of these points make me feel very confident about the Switch game.)

Aside from the obvious lies which we now know aren't true

Spoiler: GF lies

game being twice as long, story being new and very different from SM, denying that there were no new Alola forms when there are no new Alola forms, National Pokedex being in the game etc etc

In fairness though, nobody from GF actually said that the National Dex was coming back. That was us; we looked at the guidebooks and presumed.

I don’t recall them “denying there were no new Alola Forms,” either. In fact, I was never sufficiently convinced that the Melty interview wasn’t entirely accurate.

Spoiler

And as to the game being twice as long and the story being very different, I can kinda see how they’d think that - there is quite a bit more to do in USUM than in SM (not just the small NPC events in the overworld and the minigames, but also stuff like Mina’s Trial requiring you to go back and fight every other Captain and Victory Road being full of Trainers this time - this stuff does add to the game time), and it is easily their most divergent story out of all the third versions. It’s just, you know, they’ve already shown us that they can go further than that, and they’re somewhat missing the point in regards to what needed to change/be extended.

 

[Soki]

I have to say that I'm very happy the game was datamined. I am still buying it, cause I just wanna play Pokémon, I really like the Photo Club idea, and I'm quite excited to battle all the previous bosses again. But gods am I happy to know beforehand that all this 'ultra change' promotion was exaggarated as hell. No matter how extremely sceptical I was at the start, all that promotion even managed to convince me this game was going to be a lot better than I thought. Now I can just be disappointed beforehand, and not after playing the game, which I prefer

 

[Gengarzilla]

If it's really true that they haven't changed much about SM's story, then I can confidently decide after all this time of being on the fence that I'll not be bothering with USUM too. What I've heard is, frankly, disappointing.

It's such a shame too, because I was genuinely excited for these new games before Rainbow Rocket and the datamine reveals splashed cold water all over my hype. The one part I'm still looking forward to now would be the move tutors, which is hardly good justification on its own for spending money on Ultra Moon. I could just settle for simulators like Showdown if that feature is so important to me. At the rate this is going, Gen VII's going to make history as the first generation I've knowingly skipped completely. I like the Pokémon franchise, that's true, but I'm not blind.

Considering that my favourite 3DS Pokémon game happens to be their most recent crossover with Spike Chunsoft rather than any of the main series pairs, I'm starting to believe Game Freak is in genuine need of regular outside help.

 

[godiego]

i don't buy the whole "3d is hurting the games" argument because it's not like core features are being cut; as per usual, it's just that there's "no postgame" (ie., no PWT, second region, or Battle Frontier). people just need to get through their heads that stuff like that isn't coming back. they are a product of an era where player communication was much more limited. now that communication is incredibly easy, it seems much more practical to just push for pvp instead of bland player vs AI. the Battle Agency seems to make that quite clear.

the reality of the situation seems to be that there's just so few people, if any really, that started with six or seven that there isn't anyone yet with the rose colored glasses to defend the games, let alone many to defend the games at all. this makes it so easy to paint XY and SM as bad games or categorically different from anything before them. because really, for just about any complaint dropped on XY and SM, there's a parallel in earlier games.