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Controversial opinions

Infernape hogged the limelight way more than Greninja and Ash's other kalos mons where able to still do things unlike Ash's Sinnoh mons.

Infernape didn’t get an all-new form for itself, and was not used in Ash's almost every shown battle, unlike Greninja in Kalos. Infernape was unused in the battle vs Tobias, but Greninja was shoved down on us in all of Ash's battles in Kalos.
 
I think Showcases were just Contests with another name and a few tweaks here and there to make them seem at least somewhat different.

I also found it disappointing that Shauna wasn't a serious rival like she was in the games but instead this stereotypical cutie girl who likes to make her Pokémon look cute and appeal to others.
 
I think Infernape is memorable because it beat Electivire but I don't think Infernape hogged the limelight like Greninja did. Greninja had a cool form which the anime producers exploited. There was a good, not over-used storyline about Infernape once being Paul's and I think it was a good idea, they didn't feature it in all episodes especially near the end. Also, what is worth noting is that in some episodes Ash and Paul were together in the same area, Infernape wasn't the focus in some of those episodes whereas Greninja normally is in times of crisis.
 
Infernape didn’t get an all-new form for itself, and was not used in Ash's almost every shown battle, unlike Greninja in Kalos. Infernape was unused in the battle vs Tobias, but Greninja was shoved down on us in all of Ash's battles in Kalos.
Like how Infernape's Blaze was so strong and how he took out 4 of Paul's mons solo? I didn't see Greninja doing that.
 
I think Showcases were just Contests with another name and a few tweaks here and there to make them seem at least somewhat different.

I also found it disappointing that Shauna wasn't a serious rival like she was in the games but instead this stereotypical cutie girl who likes to make her Pokémon look cute and appeal to others.

I don't think I'd consider Shauna a series rival in the games. She always seemed like a less interesting/memorable version of Bianca to me. She did come off as a bit more generic in XY though. I

definitely agree that Showcases were just water down versions of Contests. They at least provided some good character development for Serena, but it's a shame the the goal itself was so boring. It made me wish that they could bring back Contests or at least have something in the games that they can adapt for the female leads to do as their own goal. Even after all this time, it still felt like the anime hasn't been able to make up for the removal of Contests.
 
I don't think I'd consider Shauna a series rival in the games. She always seemed like a less interesting/memorable version of Bianca to me. She did come off as a bit more generic in XY though. I

definitely agree that Showcases were just water down versions of Contests. They at least provided some good character development for Serena, but it's a shame the the goal itself was so boring. It made me wish that they could bring back Contests or at least have something in the games that they can adapt for the female leads to do as their own goal. Even after all this time, it still felt like the anime hasn't been able to make up for the removal of Contests.
Agreed Shauna wasn't really a rival because she didn't appear often - it's like Ash and Tierno as they didn't battle often as well.

Your point about Showcases, I totally agree with. That is how Serena got most of her character development and tbh she didn't get much character development either - it was all about Amourshipping really. I really missed the Contests and I still do, I love May and Dawn in contests - so fun :D
 
Yes but that was one battle. Greninja was present across a lot of anime episodes so even though Greninja might be less strong, its presence was bigger in the series.
Infernape was there for a lot of anime episodes as well and Greninja only started to take the limelight in XYZ while Infernape had it for a lot longer.
 
Agreed Shauna wasn't really a rival because she didn't appear often - it's like Ash and Tierno as they didn't battle often as well.

I was talking about Shauna not being a serious rival in the games, but she was still considered a rival in the show. I think she showed up a decent amount of times. Tierno felt more like a supporting character more than a rival if that makes any sense.

EscLucy said:
Your point about Showcases, I totally agree with. That is how Serena got most of her character development and tbh she didn't get much character development either - it was all about Amourshipping really. I really missed the Contests and I still do, I love May and Dawn in contests - so fun :D

I disagree that Serena didn't get much character development and that it was all about her pairing with Ash. While I understand why people get that impression, it honestly kind of annoys me and does a disservice to Serena's character. All of her best moments, in my opinion anyway, have nothing to do with her crush on Ash. Her determination to become the Kalos Queen and working alongside her Pokemon gave Serena her best moments and pretty solid development. Moments like when she confronted her mother about going into Showcases, getting inspiration from Aria herself and being determined to go through the finals even after being injured definitely showed some nice growth and she wasn't just there because of her crush.

Admittedly, I can see why people would get this impression from Serena. I don't think that the show made as much of a big deal about her crush as fans did, but it was a gimmick. It was how she was introduced and for better or for worse, kissing Ash at the end of the series would make fans associate her more with Amourshipping. I still think she is more than just another girl with a crush on Ash and brushing off her growth as if it was all about Amourshipping still feels like a disservice to her character, but it's not surprising why this isn't an uncommon take on her character.
 
Infernape was there for a lot of anime episodes as well and Greninja only started to take the limelight in XYZ while Infernape had it for a lot longer.
Infernape wasn't the star of his team though, it was a strong Pokemon but the anime producers in Sinnoh made all of Ash's Pokemon shine whereas in XYZ and after Olympia and Frogadier side storyline, Frogadier/Greninja just took over.
 
Infernape wasn't the star of his team though, it was a strong Pokemon but the anime producers in Sinnoh made all of Ash's Pokemon shine whereas in XYZ and after Olympia and Frogadier side storyline, Frogadier/Greninja just took over.
Your making it sound like Ash's other Kalos mon didn't do anything when I can say the same with Grotle/Torterra and Gible in Sinnoh.
 
Your making it sound like Ash's other Kalos mon didn't do anything when I can say the same with Grotle/Torterra and Gible in Sinnoh.
No, I'm not saying that. Some of his Kalos Pokemon did get limelight like Goodra and the wetlands episodes. However, what I'm saying is that the Sinnoh team got more 'coverage' than the Kalos team.
 
No, I'm not saying that. Some of his Kalos Pokemon did get limelight like Goodra and the wetlands episodes. However, what I'm saying is that the Sinnoh team got more 'coverage' than the Kalos team.
I put that on the fact that Sinnoh had more eps than Kalos so they where able to do more.
 
I put that on the fact that Sinnoh had more eps than Kalos so they where able to do more.
That was an executive decision and doesn't really affect this discussion. They normally do try to balance Pokemon but they just didn't with Greninja and the point stands it hogged the limelight. Whilst, your point is valid and quite right to use here, the discussion was about whether Greninja hogs the limelight and it does, no matter how many episodes there were.
 
That was an executive decision and doesn't really affect this discussion. They normally do try to balance Pokemon but they just didn't with Greninja and the point stands it hogged the limelight. Whilst, your point is valid and quite right to use here, the discussion was about whether Greninja hogs the limelight and it does, no matter how many episodes there were.
I don't think it was the worst because if we look at Ash's kalos mons two of them had good time in the limelight in XY, one of them left untill late in XYZ and his last mon came in too late .
 
I don't think it was the worst because if we look at Ash's kalos mons two of them had good time in the limelight in XY, one of them left untill late in XYZ and his last mon came in too late .
Well if we take into consideration all of the other regions, Greninja, to me, stole the most limelight and unfortunately, the anime producers got too carried away with the storyline. I don't really think that any of his other Pokemon really made a memorable experience (as in after you watch it once and reminisce 1 month later or things like that) in the saving of Kalos except Pikachu (which is a given).
 
Well if we take into consideration all of the other regions, Greninja, to me, stole the most limelight and unfortunately, the anime producers got too carried away with the storyline. I don't really think that any of his other Pokemon really made a memorable experience (as in after you watch it once and reminisce 1 month later or things like that) in the saving of Kalos except Pikachu (which is a given).
I don't think it helped that that the Ash-Greninja arc was all in XYZ if it was space out more or of Xyz had more eps I bet things may had been better.
 
I don't think it helped that that the Ash-Greninja arc was all in XYZ if it was space out more or of Xyz had more eps I bet things may had been better.
Also, on that note, Infernape and Ash had a long-running storyline with Paul and there weren't loads of episodes close together about them whereas Ash and Greninja did which is why Greninja did hog the limelight a lot.
 
Also, on that note, Infernape and Ash had a long-running storyline with Paul and there weren't loads of episodes close together about them whereas Ash and Greninja did which is why Greninja did hog the limelight a lot.
I feel like if Ash-Greninja had a long-running storyline like with Infernape it would had better.
 
I feel like if Ash-Greninja had a long-running storyline like with Infernape it would had better.
Yes I agree, but the storyline was cramped together into a load of episodes at the end, so, therefore, would you agree with me that Greninja is perceived as hogging to limelight whereas Infernape less so?
 
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