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Controversial opinions

It was a mistake to make Ash so flawed and naive at the start of the show, and in turn it brings down the quality of the OS. Beyond nostalgia, it's not terrible, but it's not all that special either.

Like, I'm not saying make Ash overpowered and perfect, but how naive and reckless he is at first borders on difficult to believe in its own right. It might be that they wanted him to be extra flawed to be more of an equal to kids who aren't familiar with Pokemon, but it's kind of weird when you consider that Ash actually lives in the world. There's genuinely more on the line and more risk for him, plus he's directly exposed to a culture where Pokemon are part of everything. In that case, he should be a bit more invested in doing it right than someone who's just playing a game, and there are times when his ignorance and overall attitude doesn't make much sense.

If you like Pokemon so much, shouldn't you have at least studied the basics more as a natural consequence of liking them? Like I don't expect him to be swallowing down college texts, but what about all the children's books and educational kids shows you'd think there'd be? Wouldn't Delia have wanted to make sure he knows these things before he left?

Even as a kid, I had many moments of "Ash should've known better" or "He's lucky that didn't go worse".

It's even weirder that they go on to use the concept of "smarter/more studious newbie" for certain rivals, making Ash's character back then seem even less necessary.
But they had to make him flawed. Especially if you want him to have an actual character arc (aka OS) instead of just a power fantasy (aka XY/Z). Having someone start from anywhere but the bottom makes them less relatable and unless a character is written with the specific purpose of being detached from the viewer (like One Punch Man) there's no real reason for them to be there at all besides wish fulfillment.
 
But they had to make him flawed. Especially if you want him to have an actual character arc (aka OS) instead of just a power fantasy (aka XY/Z). Having someone start from anywhere but the bottom makes them less relatable and unless a character is written with the specific purpose of being detached from the viewer (like One Punch Man) there's no real reason for them to be there at all besides wish fulfillment.
We're not saying for Ash not to have flaws only that he should know the basics of what he doing at the start and XY Ash did have flaws they didn't come out as much as before.
 
Having someone start from anywhere but the bottom makes them less relatable and unless a character is written with the specific purpose of being detached from the viewer (like One Punch Man) there's no real reason for them to be there at all besides wish fulfillment.
That might actually be the reason why, while I do enjoy the Pokémon Adventures manga, some characters just start out as too good for my liking. For example, no main character in Pokémon Adventures actually begins their Trainer career at the beginning of their arc (kinda excluding Emerald), as they already have Pokémon on hand before getting their "starter" and already have highly developed skills on the own field. Heck, take Crystal, for example! She started out with a full party and was already such a pro in catching Pokémon that the only way they could give her character development was to temporarily regress her, only so that she could work her way back to the top!

Also, sometime ago I came to realize that we've never heard of anything about any of Red's relatives, meaning he's been acting all independent since the start of the series. Doesn't this young man care about his mother at all, or vice versa?

Another "too perfect" thing I have mixed opinions about are the Pokédexes. For some reason, only the main characters seem to have the right to carry them and be acknowledged as "Pokédex holders". Even when Cheren and Bianca received Dexes, like they did in the games, they didn't work for them and wound up either destroyed or with someone else, namely White. I dunno, it's just how I'm used to how commonplace Pokédexes are in the anime that makes this feel a bit off for me. I understand that in the games, Pokédexes are rare too, but didn't Cynthia receive one as a beginning Trainer long ago, too?
 
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That might actually be the reason why, while I do enjoy the Pokémon Adventures manga, some characters just start out as too good for my liking. For example, no main character in Pokémon Adventures actually begins their Trainer career at the beginning of their arc (kinda excluding Emerald), as they already have Pokémon on hand before getting their "starter" and already have highly developed skills on the own field. Heck, take Crystal, for example! She started out with a full party and was already such a pro in catching Pokémon that the only way they could give her character development was to temporarily regress her, only so that she could work her way back to the top!

Also, sometime ago I came to realize that we've never heard of anything about any of Red's relatives, meaning he's been acting all independent since the start of the series. Doesn't this young man care about his mother at all, or vice versa?

Another "too perfect" thing I have mixed opinions about are the Pokédexes. For some reason, only the main characters seem to have the right to carry them and be acknowledged as "Pokédex holders". Even when Cheren and Bianca received Dexes, like they did in the games, they didn't work for them and wound up either destroyed or with someone else, namely White. I dunno, it's just how I'm used to how commonplace Pokédexes are in the anime that makes this feel a bit off for me. I understand that in the games, Pokédexes are rare too, but didn't Cynthia receive one as a beginning Trainer long ago, too?

She did.
I think Kusaka wants to restrict dexes to characters with the name of a game.

I don't think Ash was paying attention at school. :p
 
I too agree that Ash needs to be 'dumbed' down for the new series but it is pain seeing him lose easy battles that he could've won the last series. Also, it's like his Pikachu drops back to Level 5 - that is what is most annoying to me.
 
We're not saying for Ash not to have flaws only that he should know the basics of what he doing at the start and XY Ash did have flaws they didn't come out as much as before.
A lot of people (mostly kids) were introduced to Pokémon through the anime. If you had a main character that knows "the basics" all you would end up with is requiring exposition that would just feel way out of place (immagine Takeshi's commentary, but 10 times worse and all the time).
 
A lot of people (mostly kids) were introduced to Pokémon through the anime. If you had a main character that knows "the basics" all you would end up with is requiring exposition that would just feel way out of place (immagine Takeshi's commentary, but 10 times worse and all the time).

Why would you need exponsition? And whats wrong with Brock's commentary?

That might actually be the reason why, while I do enjoy the Pokémon Adventures manga, some characters just start out as too good for my liking. For example, no main character in Pokémon Adventures actually begins their Trainer career at the beginning of their arc (kinda excluding Emerald), as they already have Pokémon on hand before getting their "starter" and already have highly developed skills on the own field. Heck, take Crystal, for example! She started out with a full party and was already such a pro in catching Pokémon that the only way they could give her character development was to temporarily regress her, only so that she could work her way back to the top!

Also, sometime ago I came to realize that we've never heard of anything about any of Red's relatives, meaning he's been acting all independent since the start of the series. Doesn't this young man care about his mother at all, or vice versa?

Another "too perfect" thing I have mixed opinions about are the Pokédexes. For some reason, only the main characters seem to have the right to carry them and be acknowledged as "Pokédex holders". Even when Cheren and Bianca received Dexes, like they did in the games, they didn't work for them and wound up either destroyed or with someone else, namely White. I dunno, it's just how I'm used to how commonplace Pokédexes are in the anime that makes this feel a bit off for me. I understand that in the games, Pokédexes are rare too, but didn't Cynthia receive one as a beginning Trainer long ago, too?

Thats something I hate about the Adventures Manga the MC's feel like Mary Sues in a way.
 
Controversial opinion about adventures that I shared numerous times:

I don't like its world building. Why would "Dex holders" be special in a world where the internet exists. Why is the B button command tied to pokedex if few people have them? Why are league rules the way they are? Why are levels a thing?
 
Controversial opinion about adventures that I shared numerous times:

I don't like its world building. Why would "Dex holders" be special in a world where the internet exists. Why is the B button command tied to pokedex if few people have them? Why are league rules the way they are? Why are levels a thing?
Levels are a big thing I don't get, especially when talking about Ash vs Manga Red how do we put levels into tiers in the anime and for the other way how do we know what level Ash's pokemon are it makes no sense.
 
Yeah, I believe that nothing but the gameverse itself should have levels, because it just sounds weird in any other case. It's like being in real life and calling one dog "Level 15" and another vaguely stronger dog "Level 38". It wouldn't make any sense, it just sounds really arbitrary.

But my problem with PokeSpe skill levels is mostly only a thing when it comes to how long it apparently takes to get badges and ribbons. Like, 80 days or less if you're sufficiently talented and organized? If it can be that quick for some kid, that just makes everyone who fails seem excessively lazy and mediocre by comparison. At least if you imagine it takes almost a year even for skilled newbies, it immediately becomes a lot easier to see why there are a lot of people who can't or don't want to.

A lot of people (mostly kids) were introduced to Pokémon through the anime. If you had a main character that knows "the basics" all you would end up with is requiring exposition that would just feel way out of place (immagine Takeshi's commentary, but 10 times worse and all the time).

Tons of shows have to find ways to concisely explain themselves all the time, so this is only really true if you're just lazy/unimaginative with the writing. (Like how canon was already being by always defaulting to Brock as an explanation crutch when they didn't always have to)

Like, off the top of my head, it would make perfect sense for Ash to say something like "Pikachu, come on, we have to weaken a Pokemon to catch it!" when Pikachu won't obey him.

Or for characters to just say something out of the assumption that Ash didn't know, only for him to respond that he did in certain cases. (I could also see this causing a couple of the arguments between Ash and Misty, which could be good for both of them. Misty has to realize Ash isn't as dumb as she thinks he is, and Ash has to realize that he still doesn't know everything and not all of Misty's advice is useless.)

Or for a character of the day to need help with things, giving you a sensible opportunity to go over things again if you feel like the audience forgot or just didn't see earlier episodes.

Or an amnesia episode. The OS was weird like that, they did it with Pikachu already, and it could be a fun episode outside of Ash having to be told obvious stuff again.
 
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I think that Ash can beat Origins Red and Game Red. And can push Manga Red.

I feel like it's not entirely fair to compare them when they have to condense and simplify the heck out of what Red does in the game or Origins, but Ash gets hundreds and hundreds of episodes to do all kinds of stuff, and half the time it isn't even super important stuff.

Plus, Ash's world works differently from how any Red's does in the first place. In Ash's world, your Pokemon can have mediocre or unbalanced movesets and make up for it with more flexible strategies and power applications (Ash Greninja is one of the craziest examples), and a lot of people's strength honestly relies on plot because some things are so inconsistent. (Like the infamous time when Ash pulls out Thunder Armor with no foreshadowing and no visible way of knowing it'd work, and never uses or mentions it again)
 
Adventures sticks close to the games, too closely sometimes. I dunno if it was part of some contract or what, but Kusaka goes out if his way to show everything from the games, even stuff that don't make sense in a realistic setting.
 
I feel like it's not entirely fair to compare them when they have to condense and simplify the heck out of what Red does in the game or Origins, but Ash gets hundreds and hundreds of episodes to do all kinds of stuff, and half the time it isn't even super important stuff.

Plus, Ash's world works differently from how any Red's does in the first place. In Ash's world, your Pokemon can have mediocre or unbalanced movesets and make up for it with more flexible strategies and power applications (Ash Greninja is one of the craziest examples), and a lot of people's strength honestly relies on plot because some things are so inconsistent. (Like the infamous time when Ash pulls out Thunder Armor with no foreshadowing and no visible way of knowing it'd work, and never uses or mentions it again)
Well thats the thing I don't get why people say that Origins and Game Red are better than Ash when I can bring up what makes them better than Ash? That they're Champs of Kanto? Well the Road to becoming the Champ of a region for Ash is a lot harder than with Origins and Game Red.
 
Why are league rules the way they are?
Yeah. That's another thing I'm questioning. Why have the battles end if even just one Pokémon gets knocked out? Heck, for the first three chapters, this applied to all battles, not just League tournament battles. Where did Kusaka pull that rule from? It's not even a thing in the games.

Also, why is the speed a Pokémon is sent out with such a big thing? For example, in Red's first battle with Giovanni, Giovanni made a big deal about in how many seconds Red could send out his Pokémon. Seconds! Why would that even matter?

And speaking of the aforementioned battle, in the manga, the bad guys sometimes even employ the strategy of disabling their opponent's Poké Balls to prevent them from using their Pokémon and attacking the opposing Trainer directly. I understand that this is treated as unfair even in-universe, but the fact the bad guys in the manga even consider these kinds of tactics is crazy.

Adventures sticks close to the games, too closely sometimes. I dunno if it was part of some contract or what, but Kusaka goes out if his way to show everything from the games, even stuff that don't make sense in a realistic setting.
Like how some caught Pokémon are never used again after being caught, meaning that they're literally just sitting in a Box for all eternity. This issue was even addressed in the Generation VII games. This is why Ash has never tried to "catch 'em all" in the anime, and is definitely a field where the anime has the manga beat IMO.
 
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Well thats the thing I don't get why people say that Origins and Game Red are better than Ash when I can bring up what makes them better than Ash? That they're Champs of Kanto? Well the Road to becoming the Champ of a region for Ash is a lot harder than with Origins and Game Red.

Probably because due to the heavy streamlining necessary for the Reds, they make way fewer mistakes and get from point A to point B much quicker.

Ash's road is a lot less straightforward, which is both good and bad. It gives him a lot more time to get things done and do impressive things, but at the same time, you can still end up feeling like "but wait, that's /all/ you managed to do with all the extra screentime and focus you have access to?"

Ash's resets can also feel anywhere from upsetting to outright infuriating to some people, and I still consider them one of the hardest things to accept even if I can tolerate them a lot more than I used to.

The resets also make it harder to trust Ash's competence, to an extent. You basically have to imagine some hypothetical "best of all worlds" Ash by yourself, because you never really know what they're gonna do with Ash's character and competence as time goes on, making him feel much less consistent.

So basically, I would say people feel that Red is better for being portrayed as more consistent and efficient.

But to me personally, it's kinda like comparing apples and oranges. To have Ash and a Red fight fairly, you'd have to adapt them to fit into one universe and give them both equal understanding of how that universe's battling works, or else they're hardly even compatible.
 
Good "resets" of Ash are those where he still does portray all the experiences he's previously gathered, like in Hoenn, Sinnoh, Kalos, and even Alola. The Unova reboot (yes, this was even worse than a mere reset) was an attempt to copy the original Ash by reverting him down to incompetent levels, which just seemed unnatural and stupid, considering how skillful and strong he had proven himself in the previous series. It simply didn't make sense for all that experience to just vanish into thin air. It worked in season 1 because back then, Ash didn't have any previous experiences as a Trainer, so it was kinda understandable that he'd make goofy mistakes. But when you try to recreate the same character by forcibly removing all of his past experiences from his actions, it just doesn't feel natural.

But anyway, I've personally not had pretty much any problems with Ash's "resets" anywhere else besides Unova, since although his "levels" and teams reset, his previous experiences are still there.
 
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At this point, I understand every reset from a "why would the writers do it" perspective, so my issue is just a more personal matter of not relating to it much. In a world where Pokemon aren't just data anymore, I would never want to just leave them behind like that.

Not to mention that I wouldn't feel comfortable implying favoritism by only planning to have Pikachu come with me, since animeverse Pokemon would be sapient enough to possibly interpret it that way, even if it wasn't what I actually meant by it.

Like I do know that Ash won't turn other Pokemon down if they really want to come with him, but even then, the case with Aipom ended up leading to a disappointing fate for that Pokemon. (Aipom ending up with Dawn? Cool. Aipom evolving just to end up in some ping-pong thing most people don't really care about, where she'll probably never see Ash or Dawn again? Eeehhhhh...)

Basically, I still wish resets weren't a thing, but at this point I've just accepted that it's not always about what I want.
 
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If I have to make a strongest to weakest with the three Reds we know of and Ash it would be:
Manga Red => Ash > Game Red >>> Origins Red
 
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