Review SM103: A Passionate Heart That Can Smash Even Rock! Lychee and Takeshi!!

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Not really. It may be true that SM Ash isn't my favourite, but I quite liked XY Ash. More than OS and BW Ash.

That aside, is there proof that XY and SM Ash respect the OS-BW continuity? No. Is there proof that XY and SM Ash do not respect the OS-BW continuity? No. As long as the anime crew don't give a speech or confirmation or whatever as to whether or not the anime timeline has been respected or not, I tend to believe that the latter two aren't the Ash we know.

No. I meant you're denying the truth by using this theory as a possibility to escape the truth that every single non-movie version of Ash is a part of a single timeline, just because you don't like certain versions of him. We all do that, but that's no reason to deny reality.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

We all do that, but that's no reason to deny reality.

I'm not denying reality because there is none.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I'm not denying reality because there is none.

The anime has its own reality, and you're denying the fact that all of it is one single reality.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

you're denying the fact that all of it is one single reality.

We're not provided with a fact on that, which is why there's no reality.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

We're not provided with a fact on that, which is why there's no reality.

You're forgetting that that the opposite is also true: no proof has been provided that this all isn't a single timeline, and this subject really doesn't belong here, does it?

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

You're forgetting that that the opposite is also true: no proof has been provided that this all isn't a single timeline, and this subject really doesn't belong here, does it?

You finally get the point, which I tried to make clear in post #40 of this thread. There's nothing I forgot. As for whether or not this debate belongs here, probably not, but I simply like debates and can sometimes not keep myself under control.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

You finally get the point, which I tried to make clear in post 40 of this thread. There's nothing I forgot. As for whether or not this debate belongs here, probably not, but I simply like debates and can sometimes not keep myself under control.

You've found yourself a worthy opponent. I'm equally stubborn on debates as well, but let's stop now.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

You've found yourself a worthy opponent. I'm equally stubborn on debates as well, but let's stop now.

'Kay.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

@FinnishPokéFan92 I do not accept XY and SM Ash as the Ash we all know. However, I won't put BW Ash into the same category because the anime crew tried something new (which failed spectacularly) and alternate universes were introduced in Gen 6.​

My comment was a sarcastic response to your sarcasm. However, I also wanted to make clear what is wrong with the anime. Multifunctional post, you see?

This complaint of mine is applicable to this episode, by the way.

Had Callahan not been under the companionship of a Sudowoodo, we wouldn't have seen one in this episode.

Chansey would've been too much of a nod. Not towards M21 but towards DP. Which is why it was excluded. Do you see the twistedness?

I can definitely see how you'd say that however S&M Satoshi acknowledges the past very often. He is obviously not from the movie continuity because his companions were Misty and Brock and his memories of his time in Kanto match pre-BW's memories.

Secondly, Hikari returned in BW for a little while before he took a plane to Kalos.

Also, Sudowoodo made more sense from a writer's POV to return. He is a rock type and needed for it to show a gym leader of a rock gym vs a kahuna and to come together for the z-attack.

They could've brought back any rock Pokemon but they didn't.

Fourth, while Bonsly was caught in Kanto (thank you @FinnishPokéFan92 for seeing my error) , it didn't evolve until DP into Sudowoodo thus this is another connection to Diamond and Pearl.

The truth of the matter is that we don't need you to accept it in order to have it be real. You're simply seeking comfort and seclusion in the parallel universe theory rather than facing the uncomfortable truth.

Truth.

Not really. Is there proof that XY and SM Ash respect the OS-BW continuity? No. Is there proof that XY and SM Ash do not respect the OS-BW continuity? No. As long as the anime crew don't give a speech or confirmation or whatever as to whether or not the anime timeline has been respected or not, I tend to believe that the latter two aren't the Ash we know.

The proof is that the past is acknowledged. There is more evidence for continuity than against it. Leaving out BW is part of the issue because despite BW's issues, it acknowledged the past a lot especially towards the end.

The funny part is that the last scene in DP confirms that in the time that Satoshi left a crying Hikari and returned home, it was enough for his face to change to his awkward phase because that was the first time his new design was introduced.

Hikari returned with memories intact. Brock's story continued as side stories in both BW and XY with him finally seeing Satoshi in person in SM.

As for the reason why Satoshi is more lax in training in both BW and SM? The answer is simple and thus continues his continuity: both Satoshi are ones on vacation.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Fourth, while Bonsly was caught in Johto, it didn't evolve until DP into Sudowoodo thus this is another connection to Diamond and Pearl.

Actually, it was caught in Kanto, during the Battle Frontier arc.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Actually, it was caught in Kanto, during the Battle Frontier arc.

Sorry. You're right... Very much so. Lol.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

Brock's story continued as side stories in both BW and XY with him finally seeing Satoshi in person in SM.

The problem is that XY is the oddball. Brock's story wasn't mentioned even once throughout XY. Had SM followed up after BW, I wouldn't have had any doubts concerning the continuity. It remains a mystery to me why XY was extremely isolated. Also, we should acknowledge that those not so unambiguous continuity nods in SM serve more as nostalgia rather than situating the series in a timeline it belongs to.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

The problem is that XY is the oddball. Brock's story wasn't mentioned even once throughout XY. Had SM followed up after BW, I wouldn't have had any doubts concerning the continuity. It remains a mystery to me why XY was extremely isolated. Also, we should acknowledge that those not so unambiguous continuity nods in SM serve more as nostalgia rather than situating the series in a timeline it belongs to.

You're just things as you want to see them. You're seeing those nods as nostalgia baits rather than as continuity nods, which they actually are.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

You're just things as you want to see them. You're seeing those nods as nostalgia baits rather than as continuity nods, which they actually are.

Misty & Brock returning twice is enough for me to consider them nostalgia baits. And explain XY.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

The problem is that XY is the oddball. Brock's story wasn't mentioned even once throughout XY. Had SM followed up after BW, I wouldn't have had any doubts concerning the continuity. It remains a mystery to me why XY was extremely isolated. Also, we should acknowledge that those not so unambiguous continuity nods in SM serve more as nostalgia rather than situating the series in a timeline it belongs to.

He wasn't however Cilan (who met Hikari and Brock) met Clemont in XY so the story continues.

XY Satoshi was continuing an actual journey so he reminded me a lot of DP Satoshi who is more serious and a bit more reckless.

We don't always mention our friends that we've known to other people so it makes sense that Satoshi doesn't always talk about his friends.

If I remember correctly, the only friend that's ever been talked about to others is Kasumi (in regards to the lure to Hikari) and apparently when they were going to meet her in Advanced series.

XY, I agree, doesn't acknowledge the past very often, if at all outside of Dento.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

He wasn't however Cilan (who met Hikari and Brock) met Clemont in XY so the story continues.

I do have the right to think that that Cilan is different to the Cilan we know. I do, however, not have the right to think that the Cilan who met Brock is different to the Cilan we know because an action made both Cilan and Brock simultaneously think of Ash.

XY Satoshi was continuing an actual journey so he reminded me a lot of DP Satoshi who is more serious and a bit more reckless.

Your opinion. I find SM Ash to be more similar to DP Ash than XY Ash. XY Ash is the least prototypical Ash to me.

We don't always mention our friends that we've known to other people so it makes sense that Satoshi doesn't always talk about his friends.

Please don't compare our world to a fictional one's.

EDIT: Should one want to drag this on, PM me instead of posting it in here.

 

[Neo Blaze]

XY is undoubtedly canon because Ash traveled to Kalos with Alexa who was introduced in BW. If one acknowledges BW as canon, then you automatically have to acknowledge XY as canon as well. SM is canon because, well, this is a thread for an SM episode where Misty and Brock showed up.

That said, I don't really see any merit in continuing this discussion here. Feel free to open a thread specifically about this subject if one wishes to.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

XY, I agree, doesn't acknowledge the past very often, if at all outside of Dento.

The showmakers themselves admitted that they just kinda forgot to make references to past series in XY, but yeah, let's stop this debate here now.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I do have the right to think that that Cilan is different to the Cilan we know. I do, however, not have the right to think that the Cilan who met Brock is different to the Cilan we know because an action made both Cilan and Brock simultaneously think of Ash.

You have a right, but it doesn't make it right.

There's no proof that it isn't the same Cilan. He's not like Nurse Joy, and if Satoshi got off a plane from BW with a person he met in BW, there's further proof that the seasons are connected.

To make any other assumption is just making up points in your mind to insinuate that because DP isn't being acknowledged to your liking, everything after a certain point is in another world.

Your opinion. I find SM Ash to be more similar to DP Ash than XY Ash. XY Ash is the least prototypical Ash to me.

An opinion is just that. An opinion.

Please don't compare our world to a fictional one's.

As a writer, even if you're writing for a fictional world, you make real life situations happen for people to connect.

If I'm making a character, I go off what real life people go through to make the character feel fleshed out.

If I make a city, I base it off certain elements of the real world.

When talking about friends of a fictional world, I use real world assumptions of how real people are. You don't tell every person you meet about every relationship you made the year before whether friend, girlfriend, or family member.

You can know someone for years before even knowing or seeing an old friend of theirs or someone else important to them.

To ignore real world rules is to also ignore that those rules apply in fiction too.

 

[Diamond & Pearl]

The showmakers themselves admitted that they just kinda forgot to make references to past series in XY, but yeah, let's stop this debate here now.

Why didn't you tell this sooner to me, especially when I said that I wouldn't believe the continuity being intact unless members of the anime crew mentioned about it? With this statement, I have no right to deny the continuity part anymore. I know the showmakers are BSing about the 'kinda forgot' part, but this proves that it wasn't their intention to screw the continuity up. Had you mentioned this while we were debating, it would have saved us the trouble…
Source?

The thing is clear now: the anime doesn't want continuity to be significant anymore. Brock's Sudowoodo and Chansey in one episode would have been too much of a DP nod.