Things you liked + disliked about XY's plot

[hanecco]

I personally thought it was pretty weak, but I did like:

• Multiple rivals/group of friends concept.
• The scenery/settings in the game.
• Sycamore.
• AZ's backstory and its link to Mega Evolution.

I didn't like:

• The tiny amount of lore given about Mega Evolution, even though the game has a whole tower dedicated to it.
• The way Team Flare was handled. I really liked their concept though.
• Diantha.

What about you?

 

[Boss1708]

Things I like about XY:

• Some locations, like Ambrette Town, Cyllage City, Laverre Town, Pokeball Factory, Lost Hotel and my favourite of all, Azure Bay
• the beginning of Trainer Customisation
• Battle Chateau
• some Pokémon, like Doublade and Dragalge
• PR Videos
• Pokémon Amie
• the beginning of accessible breeding

What I dislike about XY:

- the group of pseudofriends, the Gym Leaders, the E4, Diantha, Team Flare, the awful OST, and the annoying focus on fashion.

 

[Esserise]

My opinion on it has changed a lot over time. These days, I rather appreciate the scaled-back-ness of it in comparison to the bold, foregrounded story of BW (which I do also love). I like that it's not so overbearing; I've played XY more times than probably any other game in the series because they're just so easy for me to casually slip into (and have such a diverse Pokédex, of course). And there are a lot of ideas in the mix that I think were good or interesting. I like having multiple friends that travel with you; something that I always wanted from Pokémon Yellow when I was young was the ability to have Brock and Misty travel with me, since that game was supposed to be based on the anime. I never truly felt like the games delivered something like what I'd had in mind until XY. It's still not as constant as my six-year-old self would have liked, but I loved all of the moments where the group would meet up and go do something together.

I'll just come right out and say it, I love Team Flare. phite me. A myopic, privileged, would-be philanthropist who can't think his actions through because of his own ego and unchecked biases, and nihilistic aristocrats who are really just interested in scraping the poor and the different off their $20,000 luxury shoes so they can take the world for themselves is more real-talk than any other Pokémon villain team. Bugger Team Rocket. That's literally the world that we live in right now.

The fairy tale-esque lore with AZ is good shit, too. I don't really even mind that he's not a huge presence in the story - surely if I were left to wander the planet for 3,000 years with only my guilt to keep me company, I'd become a broken, mumbling husk of a person too. (I also have come to like that the plot focuses more on a magical artifact than on a particular Legendary Pokémon. It's a nice change of pace.)

However, those narrative points are also where my main criticism comes from. The story settles on some strange ethics. I understand that they want to emphasize the value of compromise and cooperation, and that is, on the face of it, fine... but maybe don't have Calerena say "Lysandre chose only Team Flare. You and I chose everyone but Team Flare. But since our positions forced our hands, you can't really say any of us were right. So maybe... If both sides have something to say, it's best to meet halfway... " because NO, you should not have to compromise with genocidal Nazis who want to kill you and everyone you care about. As it happens, Calerena, I actually kinda can say that what Lysandre was doing was wrong. And he was given more than enough room to back away from his extremism, but refused at every turn (which makes sense for his character, but it doesn't make sense to start justifying that).

Similarly, AZ kinda gets off remarkably scott-free, doesn't he? In the end, atonement for the murder of millions ultimately comes down to an Arbor Day gift and him enjoying a Pokémon battle? I mean, yeah, 3,000 years of aimless solitude would suck mega-hard. But that wasn't exactly willful atonement so much as it was an accidental karmic side-effect of what he did.

Platinum did a lot better in this sort of regard. Much as I dislike Team Galactic, Cynthia telling Cyrus that realistically he should just fuck off and live on his own is a good beat that's far more sensible than saying "I mean, you can't really say the genocide cult were wrong, exactly..."

I do think that Diantha, Tierno, and Shauna could have all been fleshed out a bit more, but to be fair, Champions rarely get good development in this series (it's really just Blue, Alder, and Hau that do to any meaningful degree), and I still give Tierno and Shauna credit for being part of the "group of friends" take on the "rival" role. Obviously a first attempt might not have all the kinks worked out right away.

the Looker Bureau, though. Look... multiversal hijinks are fun and all, but I really prefer more down-to-earth activities like this. Probably why I've liked Detective Pikachu (3DS) as much as I have thus far.

As far as gameplay and stuff goes, I love the setting and the aesthetics. Kalos is a very lovely region, probably my second favorite after Unova. The soundtrack is my co-favorite alongside the DP soundtrack. Feature-wise, I think Pokémon-Amie was a fantastic idea, Super Training was very handy for me, and O-Powers were the apotheosis of what BW were trying to do with the Entralink. Mega Evolution, although a bit shakier (I really would have tied it into Amie, personally), is an idea that I really appreciate - it was a pretty bold idea that added a cool new dimension to battling. Trainer customization? Finally. (Although in retrospect, it's sad that XY still have the best and most diverse clothing selection.) The UIs and menus are probably the best they've ever been. And the new Pokémon roster is, on the whole, my favorite by a pretty decent margin.

 

[Silktree]

Similarly, AZ kinda gets off remarkably scott-free, doesn't he? In the end, atonement for the murder of millions ultimately comes down to an Arbor Day gift and him enjoying a Pokémon battle? I mean, yeah, 3,000 years of aimless solitude would suck mega-hard. But that wasn't exactly willful atonement so much as it was an accidental karmic side-effect of what he did.

That was the worst offense. I was disgusted when the credits rolled; maybe the guy deserved a break after 3,000 years, but why should I feel sorry for him?

There is nothing about XY's plot that I like except for Emma, and even then, I found the brainwashing pretty stupid.

 

[FlashFire926]

The only things I liked aboutt X/Y's plot was when Lysandre was on screen.

Other than that, hated the group of friends, AZ's story, Diantha (worst champion), and the rest of team flare.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Wait, wait, you're saying that XY had a plot? Not from my perspective. XY was handled extremely poorly and was an obvious attempt to appease Gen 1 fans. In my eyes, virtually everything was wrong with XY: an idiot plot at best, bland characters, lame rivals, the worst champion to date, laughable villains that were the weakest threat since Team Rocket, and a horrid soundtrack (those French horns can grate on the eardrums after a while). Sure, the region looked nice, but that barely put a dent in the pro/con situation, where the cons won by a landslide. The only good thing that came out of XY was Trainer customization, and I will admit that XY had the best options for customizing (though it was still very, VERY heavily skewered toward the girls, something that I hope Sword/Shield fixes), but that's about it. If it wasn't for the fact that Gen 1 is still my most loathed gen, thanks to the constant attempts to shove it down our throats, XY would've won that dishonor by far.

 

[prog rocker]

Wait, wait, you're saying that XY had a plot? Not from my perspective. XY was handled extremely poorly and was an obvious attempt to appease Gen 1 fans. In my eyes, virtually everything was wrong with XY: an idiot plot at best, bland characters, lame rivals, the worst champion to date, laughable villains that were the weakest threat since Team Rocket, and a horrid soundtrack (those French horns can grate on the eardrums after a while). Sure, the region looked nice, but that barely put a dent in the pro/con situation, where the cons won by a landslide. The only good thing that came out of XY was Trainer customization, and I will admit that XY had the best options for customizing (though it was still very, VERY heavily skewered toward the girls, something that I hope Sword/Shield fixes), but that's about it. If it wasn't for the fact that Gen 1 is still my most loathed gen, thanks to the constant attempts to shove it down our throats, XY would've won that dishonor by far.

I agree with most of this, except for Gen I for worse generation. Most of the defects of Gen I can be justified with "first game attempt", a excuse that Gen VI doesn't have. I also more or less defend the soundtrack, although it was at best generic for me instead of outright bad (unlike the Gen I Kanto soundtrack, it really needed the remixes it got in the future).

On the plus sides for me, I do kinda like Megas (except the two obvious ones), Amie was nice, and customization was alright although I found the fact that you couldn't take your hat off annoying, and that most clothing looked too fancy for me (I prefer simpler clothes).

 

[Boss1708]

If I had to pick just one thing in XY, that I consider the worst, it would be a draw between the soundtrack and the characters (the NPCs).

The soundtrack doesn't have that typical, unmistakable Pokémon vibe that every other soundtrack has. XY's music just lacks passion. It's cold, distant, boring, and tries to sound (pseudo) mature. Basically it is everything a Pokémon soundtrack shouldn't be.

The characters are all just extremely boring and unmemorable. With the exception of Lysander, who is at least decent. But Diantha is probably the worst offender. What a terrible, devoid of personality, lacking Champion.

 

[hanecco]

Oh yeah. The soundtrack in Gen 6 is not something I liked. I didn't appreciate how overused the Team Flare theme was, especially when Lysandre's battle theme is just the Flare theme with some extra drums or something.

What irritated me the most about Diantha was that she does show up that one time in a cafe. Why introduce her there if we'll never see her again?!

 

[prog rocker]

Oh yeah. The soundtrack in Gen 6 is not something I liked. I didn't appreciate how overused the Team Flare theme was, especially when Lysandre's battle theme is just the Flare theme with some extra drums or something.

What irritated me the most about Diantha was that she does show up that one time in a cafe. Why introduce her there if we'll never see her again?!

She also appears once in Coumarine City, but yeah, they didn't use her much. Doesn't help that she is the weakest Champion in the series. So far, she's the only one where I can consistently one shot all her Pokémon.

 

[hanecco]

Wait, she appeared in Coumarine? What?
It must have been for a really short moment or something, because I completely forgot that happened.

 

[prog rocker]

Wait, she appeared in Coumarine? What?
It must have been for a really short moment or something, because I completely forgot that happened.

Yes. She appears the first time you enter the monorail station. She talks about bonds and how bonding with the character she's playing in the movies help her being a better actress.

In other words, nothing important aside from reiterating that she's an actress.

 

[RK9]

I hated exploring Lumiose City. I'm replaying Y, and I've remembered how terrible Lumiose is to explore.

Where does the Legendary suddenly come from. You just hear they need its power for the weapon and suddenly it is in their base. Wtf.

I actually really liked Lysandre himself. He, unlike the rest of his team, was a pretty interesting guy that definitely had potential. AZ was pretty interesting too, but they didn't do too much with him and I agree he got away awfully easy for everything he pulled.

I liked Serena's design but if you play as Calem, her personality, not so much. She has this weird and badly done obsession about besting you. But is also very buddy buddy you. Which kind of makes it all feel very half-assed.

Customization is godly. I love dressing up Serena. (Calem less because I don't like the clothing as much) but I've probably spent more time dressing up than anythine else.

Diantha, like Iris in BW2, is a disappointment of a champion and should just disappear. Then there are also Sina and Dexio, who aren't bad per say, but we all know who you are, take off the masks. And make them battleable, at least as tag partner when they're also implied to be battling/helping out against Team Flare.

I'm also a big sucker for Mega Evolution. Shame they didn't really go into the lore more and that they don't make use of it anymore.

The female ace trainer has a lovely design, I guess.

 

[Daenerys]

I liked the designs of the Gym Leaders and the fact that the rivals/friends were involved in the plot quite a bit more than some of the previous ones. What I dislike was... basically everything else lol. The limited number of new Pokemon was a damn shame, Mega Evolutions were overhyped and overrated, Lumiose City is an infinite maze that I still can't navigate through without suffering anxiety, the soundtrack minus maybe two songs is unremarkable, the fact that nighttime is almost as bright as daytime is asinine, and the region itself feels small and cramped for some reason.

 

[zoroarctic]

What I liked: The Kalos region, Customization, Mega Evolution, Fairy-type, Soundtrack, a solid roster of new Pokemon.

What I didn’t like: The annoying group of friends, easy major battles,

 

[ZDaemon09]

Things I like about its plot.

1. I liked the background regarding the Kalos War and what happened.
2. I liked how our main villain was trying to commit genocide. (Pretty dark.)
3. Out villain bleeping died as well.

Things I dislike.

1. Rivals stink.
2. Team Flare was inconsistent and boring. None of the things they done... contributed to the climax.
3. None of the Gym Leaders had anything besides Korrina.
4. Diantha was a mediocre champion fight... though her music was awesome.
5. The Mascot Legendaries were just there.
6. Kalos could have had much more. Why didn't Lumiose City have Catacombs?
7. AZ did nothing and did nothing for any forgiveness. (His fault a lot of things happened and his fault the world got blown up!)
8. Lysandre should have been treated like the lunatic he was and I appreciate the anime and what I hear the Manga for giving him justice.

 

[Matleo]

Gym leaders should had better pokemon and more.
3vs3 is my thing, can be double battles or like in gen 3 we had the last gym leader who had a double battle and a 3vs3.

Rock Gym should had a Tyrantrum and Aeorodactyl.
Fairy Gym should have used Mr. Mime and Mega Mawile, maybe even make it a double battle, 2vs2 regular plus a double battle.

Bug type gym should have used Powder and had a battle with Fenikin. Also could got the rematch later on to make it a 3vs3.

Longer league and more pokemon battles and strategies that werent used yet in the anime before plus the old ones.

More type, ability, move situations.

That they didn't featured long time pokemon from future generations like in the past.

 

[Esserise]

That was the worst offense. I was disgusted when the credits rolled; maybe the guy deserved a break after 3,000 years, but why should I feel sorry for him?

Agreed, although, in thinking about it, I kinda wonder why I give a pass to Origins Giovanni? I've always praised what that story did with him, but it occurs to me now that it's basically the same ending as AZ - a ruthless committer of evil (and unlike AZ, O!Giovanni isn't shown to be even vaguely regretful of the consequences of his actions) realizes the error of his ways because of a single Pokémon battle reminding him of what he really used to care about. Maybe I let that slide because it's just simply more interesting than having him go right back to being a mob boss who learned nothing.

Yes. She appears the first time you enter the monorail station. She talks about bonds and how bonding with the character she's playing in the movies help her being a better actress.

In other words, nothing important aside from reiterating that she's an actress.

Ehh... I mean, it's nothing important plot-wise, yeah, but I think it's at least a nice scene for her character because we gain some insight about how she chooses to approach things. For comparison, Diantha appears as many times in XY as Cynthia did in DP, and yet we know a lot more about how Diantha as a person actually thinks; what opinions she has, because her non-League scenes are written from a more character-based perspective, so as to make a point about some of the themes of the games (bonds, compromise, approaching people/perspectives that are different from your own) rather than just having her dump exposition and railroad you places like Cynthia did prior to Platinum. It's possible that a second Kalos game would have done more with Diantha, but that's not something I'm going to lament too much because upper versions are fundamentally banal and disposable, and again, she's just one of many Champions to lack a significant presence in the narrative.

I'm also a big sucker for Mega Evolution. Shame they didn't really go into the lore more

What more would you have them say? We know the philosophy of it, we know how it works, and we are given a solid theory as to how it came into existence. We know that, historically, it was discovered and pioneered by a chap with a Lucario, and that one of the game's Gym Leaders is a descendant of that person. And that's all before ORAS came along and gave it its own secret Hoennian origin story, so I'm curious as to what you have in mind.

Team Flare was inconsistent and boring. None of the things they done... contributed to the climax.

Well... define "contributed." In practical terms, most of the encounters that we have with them are later revealed to have been committed toward their overall goal. Sure, the first few brushes with them near Glittering Cave are just standard "We need that sweet, sweet honey"/"Come here you dumb Herdier"-tier goonery, but it's a Pokémon game, so that's not unusual. But their mission at the power plant is meant to steal electrical power that they can use to activate the weapon (and one of the admins later remarks that they were actually completely capable of using their own resources to create that power, but decided to harvest it from the plant anyway in order to avoid an expenditure on their end, which is a nice little illustration of how these people think - they already have more than they could possibly need, and yet they still hoard and steal essentials from the common people; this also plays into the whole give-and-take theme of the games); their invasion of the Poké Ball Factory is similar sort of project, because they need lots of Poké Balls in order to capture enough Pokémon to feed the weapon, and then the group that we battle at Frost Cavern is putting that plan into action by trying to capture the local Abomasnow.

But I mean, there's also meant to be some degree of obfuscation here. Unlike the other villain teams, who are all pretty loud and proud about what their goal is (do bad stuff! moar land! moar water! new world! separate people from Pokémon!), Team Flare speak of their intentions in considerably more veiled (albeit rather cheesy) terms. Their actions prior to the climax can't really say too much that would give the game up, because it's supposed to come as a shock when you learn the true extent of what they've been working toward.

 

[Silktree]

Agreed, although, in thinking about it, I kinda wonder why I give a pass to Origins Giovanni? I've always praised what that story did with him, but it occurs to me now that it's basically the same ending as AZ - a ruthless committer of evil (and unlike AZ, O!Giovanni isn't shown to be even vaguely regretful of the consequences of his actions) realizes the error of his ways because of a single Pokémon battle reminding him of what he really used to care about. Maybe I let that slide because it's just simply more interesting than having him go right back to being a mob boss who learned nothing.

There are some notable differences between the two situations:

1. Giovanni didn't commit genocide. Two of his grunts killed a Marowak, the Celadon branch gave Pokemon away as casino prizes, and he was after the Master Ball (probably for Mewtwo).

2. AZ was clearly being accepted by everyone around him in the ending. In contrast, Giovanni's badge was initially rejected by Red, and it was clear that he would have to leave Kanto and keep a low profile.

3. The Origins episode explained Giovanni's transformation fairly well, while XY didn't shed light on Floette's return. AZ losing to the player was the trigger, seriously? The Generations short ("The Redemption", lol) didn't fix this, either

 

[hanecco]

@Esserise

It's possible that a second Kalos game would have done more with Diantha, but that's not something I'm going to lament too much because upper versions are fundamentally banal and disposable, and again, she's just one of many Champions to lack a significant presence in the narrative.

You know, I didn't think about that much. I wonder why people hate Diantha so much then, if she is no different from other Champions.
(It's probably because battling her is easier than most other Champions, now that I think about it.)

Off topic, but I totally disagree that 3rd versions are useless. They are usually significantly better than the original pairs, which I often can't even be bothered to play through. (This mainly applies to RS and DP).