Masters Pokémon Masters General Discussion Thread

[Daenerys]

Not always. The games made in the timeframe between Emerald (2004/2005) and BW2 (2012), were clearly designed with hardcore fans in mind.I agree here.

Other than the battle facilities and stuff like the different difficult modes, I don't see how anyone can claim that those games were designed specifically for hardcore fans. Like, how do those relatively minor features outweigh all of the other kodomo-esque crap that Gamefreak programmed into those games?

 

[Boss1708]

Other than the battle facilities and stuff like the different difficult modes, I don't see how anyone can claim that those games were designed specifically for hardcore fans.

I didn't claim they were designed exclusively for hardcore fans. I said they were designed with hardcore fans in mind.

Unlike the new games, which are designed (almost) exclusively for casual fans.

 

[godiego]

What a good portion of us liked about things such as the Battle Frontier and the PWT wasn’t necessarily the RNG or difficulty spikes (or at least not just that), but the fact that it exposed us to ways of battling that we otherwise would have never been able to experience. It spices things up rather than just being another “higher win streak = higher difficulty and/or RNG” that the standard basic battle facility provides. The PWT also offered such challenges, and it was just a single facility!

What I’m trying to say is that it’s not a matter of difficulty, but rather the twist on the standard battle formula that we enjoy.

i think it's a bit of a reach to say that the Battle Facilities "exposed players to [different] ways of battling"; almost all of the facilities still operate under the usual beat 'em up until you get to the head. the Battle Pyramid definitely deserves some credit here as it's the only facility that actually does something interesting. the rest just throw in some random gimmick and then just say battle your way on up.

also lol. the PWT was a garbage facility. the only thing it deserves credit for is simply having all those other characters from before. without them, no one would be singing a single amount of praise for it.

and of course, if it really did come down to the twist: where was all this enthusiasm during XY with Sky Battles or Inverse Battles? Triples and Rotations? no one commenting on the Restaurant battles in XY? White Tree Hollow and Black Tower?

 

[Boss1708]

also lol. the PWT was a garbage facility. the only thing it deserves credit for is simply having all those other characters from before. without them, no one would be singing a single amount of praise for it.

I disagree.

Other than having all the old NPCs returning for the Gym Leaders Tournament and the Champions Tournament, the PWT also had 3 additional modes:

- Rentals: basically works like the Battle Factory.

- Mixed: you and your opponent swap one of your own Pokémon with each other. That's a very unique idea that hasn't reappeared in future games.

- Type Masters: you choose and elemental type, you use 3 Pokémon of said type, and you only fight other trainers that specialise in that type.

So the PWT was basically 4 battle facilities in 1. Not to mention, the PWT was also the only place for Triple and Rotation battles in Gen V.

 

[Kallyle]

i think it's a bit of a reach to say that the Battle Facilities "exposed players to [different] ways of battling"; almost all of the facilities still operate under the usual beat 'em up until you get to the head. the Battle Pyramid definitely deserves some credit here as it's the only facility that actually does something interesting. the rest just throw in some random gimmick and then just say battle your way on up.

also lol. the PWT was a garbage facility. the only thing it deserves credit for is simply having all those other characters from before. without them, no one would be singing a single amount of praise for it.

and of course, if it really did come down to the twist: where was all this enthusiasm during XY with Sky Battles or Inverse Battles? Triples and Rotations? no one commenting on the Restaurant battles in XY? White Tree Hollow and Black Tower?

There were actually quite a few of us who enjoyed Inverse Battles. The problem was that it was limited to one person in-game. Also, people were actually getting intrigued by Rotation Battles by the time Gen 6 rolled around; it’s just that Game Freak ended up removing them from the game right around the time it was catching on. As for White Tree Hollow and Black Tower, I remember there being some praise for not only allowing you to use any of your Pokémon, but for also giving a practical feature for White Forest and Black City in comparison to their Black and White debut.

I can’t really say much about Sky Battles or Triple Battles though, as the former just restricted the amount of Pokémon and moves you could use and the latter was just Double Battles with three Pokémon.

 

[Boss1708]

and of course, if it really did come down to the twist: where was all this enthusiasm during XY with Sky Battles or Inverse Battles? Triples and Rotations? no one commenting on the Restaurant battles in XY? White Tree Hollow and Black Tower?

There were actually quite a few of us who enjoyed Inverse Battles. The problem was that it was limited to one person in-game. Also, people were actually getting intrigued by Rotation Battles by the time Gen 6 rolled around; it’s just that Game Freak ended up removing them from the game right around the time it was catching on. As for White Tree Hollow and Black Tower, I remember there being some praise for not only allowing you to use any of your Pokémon, but for also giving a practical feature for White Forest and Black City in comparison to their Black and White debut.

I can’t really say much about Sky Battles or Triple Battles though, as the former just restricted the amount of Pokémon and moves you could use and the latter was just Double Battles with three Pokémon.

I want to address the glaring elephant in the room here: Inverse Battles, Sky Battles, White Treehollow, and the Lumiose Restaurant battles, they all share a common problem: there is no level cap in them.

If these battle styles were all implemented in proper battle facilities, with proper rules, and with a level cap that actually made the battles fair, I would definitely praise them.

Variety is what makes the Battle Frontier and PWT fun. But of course, you need challenge as well. You need a level cap for actually interesting battles. Otherwise, all you need to do is level grind until you win. And we get enough of it during the main game already xD

 

[godiego]

There were actually quite a few of us who enjoyed Inverse Battles. The problem was that it was limited to one person in-game. Also, people were actually getting intrigued by Rotation Battles by the time Gen 6 rolled around; it’s just that Game Freak ended up removing them from the game right around the time it was catching on. As for White Tree Hollow and Black Tower, I remember there being some praise for not only allowing you to use any of your Pokémon, but for also giving a practical feature for White Forest and Black City in comparison to their Black and White debut.

I can’t really say much about Sky Battles or Triple Battles though, as the former just restricted the amount of Pokémon and moves you could use and the latter was just Double Battles with three Pokémon.

to be clear, i'm not specifically referencing you two when i say that no one appreciated other newer battle modes. the reality of the situation is that people are quick to deflect criticisms of the BF with "well i wasn't playing them for the challenge, it was for the novel battle models." and then also proceed to turn up their nose at said other modes and impose fairly arbitrary standards on them. (see: Meta Boss's semi-circular reasoning below.)

So the PWT was basically 4 battle facilities in 1. Not to mention, the PWT was also the only place for Triple and Rotation battles in Gen V.

neat! however, people don't remember or care about the PWT because it was a 4-in-1. they're only interested in it because of the cameos. take those away and few would care about it at all.

I want to address the glaring elephant in the room here: Inverse Battles, Sky Battles, White Treehollow, and the Lumiose Restaurant battles, they all share a common problem: there is no level cap in them.

If these battle styles were all implemented in proper battle facilities, with proper rules, and with a level cap that actually made the battles fair, I would definitely praise them.

Variety is what makes the Battle Frontier and PWT fun. But of course, you need challenge as well. You need a level cap for actually interesting battles. Otherwise, all you need to do is level grind until you win. And we get enough of it during the main game already xD

but like, dude. you can't just be out here like "love the novel concepts" and then proceed to flip that on its head and say that they pretty much only count when they're Battle facilities. because, let's be clear here, the only reason those gimmicks exist in the battle facilities is not to spice up battling in the franchise, but to give the shit AI a chance. plus, like, if you want an actual challenge...play against people. they can make actual decisions rather than following a generic and pretty bad script.

 

[Boss1708]

neat! however, people don't remember or care about the PWT because it was a 4-in-1. they're only interested in it because of the cameos. take those away and few would care about it at all.

I thought we were discussing the actual value of the PWT. Not what people remember it for.

But honestly, even for the cameos, it is already a very nice facility imo.

but like, dude. you can't just be out here like "love the novel concepts" and then proceed to flip that on its head and say that they pretty much only count when they're Battle facilities.

I disagree. I indeed only like them when they are in battle facilities.

 

[Boss1708]

(see: Meta Boss's semi-circular perfect reasoning below.)

Yeah... no. It's not semi circular logic to point out that:

a) Online battles are boring, because they have no variety

b) Inverse Battles are boring, because they have no level cap

c) Battle Facilities solve these issues and combine the best of both worlds.

Also, the Battle Facility AI is not as dumb as you make it out to be, so... we'll have to agree to disagree here. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Kallyle]

@godiego I can see what you’re saying, and I can understand your point of view better now. I can’t speak for Meta Boss, but I genuinely enjoy the unique battle modes regardless of whether or not it’s in a facility. Game Freak just needs to use the other battle styles more rather than just make it a one-off battle (Sky Battles) or a once-per-day thing (Inverse Battles). They seem reluctant to show off certain things more than once, which just seems like a waste.

 

[Silktree]

The current topic isn't Masters-related, but okay. As far as variety goes, the only modes that have appealed to me are Little Cup, Challenge Cup (Battle Factory) and Inverse Battles (as a concept). I'd like to give the Battle Pyramid a chance, though.

 

[Esserise]

The PWT's Mixed format is something that seems like it would be a fun idea if it were able to be done with real people. As it stands, it's basically just "Rent 1 Pokémon instead of 3."

The only facility that ever appealed to me was the Treehollow, and that was for the puzzle elements and the ability to use non-competitive Pokémon. The battles themselves are obviously straightforward.

and of course, if it really did come down to the twist: where was all this enthusiasm during XY with Sky Battles or Inverse Battles? Triples and Rotations? no one commenting on the Restaurant battles in XY? White Tree Hollow and Black Tower?

And Battle Royals. Never hear a peep about them.

 

[Psytrainer]

Changing subjects, the official website for the game is now up:

Pokémon Masters official site

What interests me is that they list Brock, Misty, and Rosa under "Friends" while placing every other returning character in a separate category. Considering the footage we've been shown so far, this likely means that these three are the first to join you. Brock and Misty are most definitely the default party members while Rosa joins after a tutorial battle (i.e., What we saw in the teaser). There's also full artwork of the game's villains on the "Story" page.

 

[Boss1708]

Pikachu is confirmed to be our Sync Partner Pokémon.

Spoiler

I would've preferred to be able to choose Charizard, Gyarados, Metagross or Salamence, instead. They are my 4 favourite Pokémon.

But I also like Pikachu a lot, so cool.

 

[prog rocker]

Pikachu is confirmed to be our Sync Partner Pokémon.

Spoiler

I would've preferred to be able to choose Charizard, Gyarados, Metagross or Salamence, instead. They are my 4 favourite Pokémon.

But I also like Pikachu a lot, so cool.

I would preferred... anyone else. I don't care if it's Qwilfish or even Unown, just not Pikachu. Or at least make it like Go and the normal games and make us choose a starter.

 

[Psytrainer]

Honestly, I'd be far more annoyed with this decision if having the protagonist in the party was mandatory.

 

[prog rocker]

Honestly, I'd be far more annoyed with this decision if having the protagonist in the party was mandatory.

Wait, I can ditch myself? I hope it's quick enough.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Here's the source of where the concerns of Game Freak no longer focusing on Pokemon Games come from.

Pokemon’s Game Freak ‘prioritising’ original game projects

 

[El_]

Nothing wrong with "branching out" imo. Just wish they were allowed to have longer time-tables for deadlines.

I would preferred... anyone else. I don't care if it's Qwilfish or even Unown, just not Pikachu. Or at least make it like Go and the normal games and make us choose a starter.

They should have went with Eevee. At least there you have some variety in the evolutions like what Pokemon Conquest did. Perhaps even a different Pikachu clone. Doesn't matter though, since they are just blank mascot advertisement slates that will be ditched upon arrival.

Is there any sort of "ideal" team anyone is looking forwards to? Like some what if team up scenarios?

 

[Silktree]

Can you really ditch the protagonist? They literally refer to them as you. That said, this seems to be typical for gacha games where you can rotate the characters.

My partners are going to be Kris and Silver, but if I can switch the protagonist with anyone, my first priority will be Eusine. The team I'd most like to bring down is Lyra, Trace and AZ, who annoyed me the most.