SwSh Why are people saying the graphics are "bad"?

[Parissong]

But that's what they do for every new generation. Why would people take that as a reason to raise their expectations for anything more than a commensurate step up from previous new generation games?

As compensation for the National Dex being cut or something :/

 

[Midorikawa]

As compensation for the National Dex being cut or something :/

That’s part of the issue. People are treating the national dex like everything and looking for reasons o make the game bad, such as graphics.

Luckily graphics aren’t everything, and the game is simply looking better and better in every way.

Let’s go looked nice and clear, but it had that Chibi style. This has the style more for adult players and man does it look amazing. Definitely a step up from Usum.

Though the player character better have expressions. We don’t need to be heartless people who sit and watch the world burn with a smile. The graphics ain’t worth anything if we’re soulless again.

 

[Parissong]

That’s part of the issue. People are treating the national dex like everything and looking for reasons o make the game bad, such as graphics.

Absolutely. Although, I can't say I am sure what they expect Pokémon to do about it without changing major dates such as the release date. As much as I want every Pokémon to be in the game, I'm not gonna go to every feature and point every fault out in them.

I don't even have a switch so tbh I shouldn't even be commenting on graphics lmao

 

[Esserise]

As compensation for the National Dex being cut or something :/

I suppose, but we only found out about that a month ago. We've known which devs were primarily working on which games since USUM's press period.

 

[Almonds]

But that's what they do for every new generation. Why would people take that as a reason to raise their expectations for anything more than a commensurate step up from previous new generation games?

It would be that people want the games to be better because USUM was pretty much abandoned for the sake of the new games.

 

[Esserise]

It would be that people want the games to be better because USUM was pretty much abandoned for the sake of the new games.

I'm not... sure I understand the issue here. Are people upset about graphics or about USUM? At any rate, "abandoned" is a very dramatic way of putting it; USUM were no more "abandoned" than B2W2 were.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

That’s part of the issue. People are treating the national dex like everything and looking for reasons o make the game bad, such as graphics.

It's not like people are arbitrary choosing a scapegoat, they're just saying that, if Pokemon are getting cut to free up time, they want to see benefits from that extra time. "These graphics are good, but they don't seem like such an extreme change that they'd need to skip out on Pokemon for this" is not the same as attacking everything for something unrelated.

 

[Almonds]

I'm not... sure I understand the issue here. Are people upset about graphics or about USUM? At any rate, "abandoned" is a very dramatic way of putting it; USUM were no more "abandoned" than B2W2 were.

To elaborate, it's more of an issue that the trailers and demo showing gameplay footage not looking as vastly improved on or different enough from USUM for some players. The general stuff that's been circulating on fansites saying "they gave up on Alola and and cut a large chunk pokemon? For this?" I don't want to dig deeper into this issue because there's so much negativity surrounding the dissatisfaction with GF.

But that aside, personally, I'm more of a story person so graphics and animation don't really matter to me. I do want them to add plenty of character expressions and present a well-written story.

 

[Ambrose7]

It's not like people are arbitrary choosing a scapegoat, they're just saying that, if Pokemon are getting cut to free up time, they want to see benefits from that extra time. "These graphics are good, but they don't seem like such an extreme change that they'd need to skip out on Pokemon for this" is not the same as attacking everything for something unrelated.

That's the thing though. Let's compare something like Sun and Moon to Sword and Shield. The latter is way larger and hence they are running into problems. But since the schedule is all set up and they don't want to delay the game, they had to make sacrifices. But the sacrifices don't mean the game must have even better graphics. That would increase the time taken again, making the sacrifices reductant. Sun and Moon even had a break year and if they have to deliver something like Sword and Shield with even less amount of development time, it's actually understandable why they are doing what they are doing. But instead people compare it to franchises with games in development for many years like DQXI.

I just hope GF realises it needs more time for games and takes a break.

 

[swiftgallade46]

The general stuff that's been circulating on fansites saying "they gave up on Alola and and cut a large chunk pokemon? For this?"

Are people really saying this? What, do they want us to remain in Alola for the rest of time? Do they not know how this works?

 

[Almonds]

Are people really saying this? What, do they want us to remain in Alola for the rest of time? Do they not know how this works?

@Ambrose7 provided a good explanation that could apply to this, imo.

 

[Midorikawa]

I'm not... sure I understand the issue here. Are people upset about graphics or about USUM? At any rate, "abandoned" is a very dramatic way of putting it; USUM were no more "abandoned" than B2W2 were.

B2W2 we’re basically new games. They were tre sequels. USUM was a glorified third version. They made it out to be something more than it actually was. “Alternate Story” when really it was almost the exact same story.

It's not like people are arbitrary choosing a scapegoat, they're just saying that, if Pokemon are getting cut to free up time, they want to see benefits from that extra time. "These graphics are good, but they don't seem like such an extreme change that they'd need to skip out on Pokemon for this" is not the same as attacking everything for something unrelated.

However people aren’t giving it a chance at all. And they’re treating it like all it is is the national dex and the graphics. We don’t know how much content and extras are in the game. What if there are co tests and a battle frontier.

Constantly people want more and more in Pokémon games. Open world, harder games, better story. But to make sure we have that, stuff has to be cut. So far from what we’ve been shown, there trying to give us some of the stuff people have been asking for.

However since the national dex, this has been ignored by some people and they’re trying to make the games look bad.

I’m not saying all, just some. I’ve seen YouTube channels pop up on the side and every title is about how the game will be bad and how it’s graphics are supposedly worse than ocarina of time n64.

I just beat it on the 3ds and have seen the n64 graphics. This way beats out both.

 

[swiftgallade46]

@Ambrose7 provided a good explanation that could apply to this, imo.

Their post is sensible but I don’t see where it explains why people are claiming that Alola was “given up on”. It got two sets of games, and we moved to the next gen. It’s just the normal progression of Pokémon.

 

[Midorikawa]

Their post is sensible but I don’t see where it explains why people are claiming that Alola was “given up on”. It got two sets of games, and we moved to the next gen. It’s just the normal progression of Pokémon.

My guess is people think Alola was given up on Becaise of what usum was. Though let’s face it, it was probably just a placeholder game.

True question is is it GF pushing for the yearly releases or someone else. I think with the switch we might go back to them having more time between games. Which I hope for both their sakes and the games.

Not for national dex or anything like that, but after gen V is when games truly had issues. Granted XY had an atrocious story and they had plenty of time for that so idk.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I’m not saying all, just some.

I feel like you should have lead with that, because just saying "people" sounded to me like you were suggesting the people criticizing the game were all doing this.

I’ve seen YouTube channels pop up on the side and every title is about how the game will be bad and how it’s graphics are supposedly worse than ocarina of time n64.

It's PokeTube-they're the same channels that also promised every post on 4Chan was worth spending ten minutes on as a "possible leak"

Constantly people want more and more in Pokémon games. Open world, harder games, better story. But to make sure we have that, stuff has to be cut.

Maybe some features couldn't be worked in, but I don't see why Pokemon that already have models and data from past would need to be cut at all. And looking at the credits for these departments in SuMo, it doesn't really make sense that the staff for them would need them removed.

The Dialogue team (closest I could find to story) in SuMo consists of:

• Suguru Nakatsui, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, Pokemon Design Coordination, and Trainer Character Concept.
• Kenji Matsushima, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text and Game Text Localization Support
• Toshinobu Matsumiya, also credited under Scenario and Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text
• Masafumi Nukita, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, leader of Field System Design, Game Text Localization Support, and Concept Planning
• Takashi Hino, not credited with anything else

The only thing any of these staff members did with old Pokemon would be writing new dex entries. (Pokemon Concept seems to be referring to new Pokemon) And sure, cutting that would lighten the load for writers-but why not just re-use old dex entries?

The Battle Planning team consists of:

• Shigeki Morimoto, not credited anywhere else
• Kōji Nishino, not credited anywhere else
• Tatsuro Kusano, not credited anywhere else.

There's also a Game Design Balancing team:

• Shohei Kawano, not credited anywhere else
• Jun Ito, not credited anywhere else
• Kei Setoguchi, not credited anywhere else
• Mitsuyo Matsunaga, also credited as Coordinator

If planning battles was their only role in designing the game (apart from Mitsuyo), then the only thing that removing Pokemon would affect would be if they were worried about transfers upsetting the balance in the early game. But they still kept in transferring, it's just blocked for some Pokemon. And yeah, preventing the player from transferring Reshiram in could help with balance, but so could preventing the player from transferring in a Hydreigon, and that's still possible.

The Wild Area is new, but we might be able to find roles close to it in the credits for Game Map Design and Field System Design.

• Chihiro Hayashi, credited under Game Map Design and Trainer Character Concept
• Kazuki Muroi, only credited under Game Map Design
• Yohei Asaoka, only credited under Game Map Design
• Masahiro Takei, only credited under Game Map Design
• Kaori Hayashi, only credited under Game Map Design
• Masafumi Nukita, credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, leader of Field System Design, Game Text Localization Support, and Concept Planni
• Hiroyuki Tani, credited under Field System Design and Event Planning / Video Direction
• Atsushi Terachi, credited under Field System Design, Communication Features Planning, and Concept Planning
• Akira Nakamura, only credited under Field System Design
• Kazumasa Iwao, credited as Game Battle System Design Section Director, Field System Design, and Concept Planning

It's the same story here: Nobody that worked in these departments had anything to do with old Pokemon being included.

And it's not because nobody was credited for old Pokemon-there's sections for Pokémon Model Inspection, Pokémon 3D Modeling, and Pokémon Character Motion. I guess it's possible that someone in those departments is going to be brought somewhere else to improve it, but if that person really was a better writer/balancer/mapper, why weren't they on the team in the first place?

 

[KrisiChiki]

Constantly people want more and more in Pokémon games. Open world, harder games, better story. But to make sure we have that, stuff has to be cut. So far from what we’ve been shown, there trying to give us some of the stuff people have been asking for.

I’ll have to disagree with this. A good story is independent of a game’s graphics or miscellaneous content so it really shouldn’t affect the game and require for things to be cut.

Magnificent cutscenes with detailed animation, which could slow down development, are meaningless if the plot isn’t good. Pokemon games don’t have particularly long stories so having to script events shouldn’t affect development more than usual.

A lot of people consider Gen V to have the best story in the franchise and it achieved that with just pixels/sprites. There are even more examples if we look at spin-offs or other non-Pokemon games that have memorable stories with simple graphics.

I also disagree that making the games more challenging would require cuts. In XY the final Gym Leader was still using only 3 Pokemon, but in older games the final Gym Leader had 5. It’s small things like these that can make a game harder. I’d bring more examples but my comment is already getting long.

I do agree with the open world part, though I personally wasn’t expecting it this gen yet. People were asking for too much if they expected Pokemon BoTW. Still, Game Freak could start with simple things like designing routes so they don’t need to use ridiculous roadblocks (sniffing Stoutland??) and not making routes into glorified corridors, but I don’t think we need to worry about the latter.

 

[Midorikawa]

I feel like you should have lead with that, because just saying "people" sounded to me like you were suggesting the people criticizing the game were all doing this.

It's PokeTube-they're the same channels that also promised every post on 4Chan was worth spending ten minutes on as a "possible leak"


Maybe some features couldn't be worked in, but I don't see why Pokemon that already have models and data from past would need to be cut at all. And looking at the credits for these departments in SuMo, it doesn't really make sense that the staff for them would need them removed.

The Dialogue team (closest I could find to story) in SuMo consists of:

• Suguru Nakatsui, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, Pokemon Design Coordination, and Trainer Character Concept.
• Kenji Matsushima, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text and Game Text Localization Support
• Toshinobu Matsumiya, also credited under Scenario and Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text
• Masafumi Nukita, also credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, leader of Field System Design, Game Text Localization Support, and Concept Planning
• Takashi Hino, not credited with anything else

The only thing any of these staff members did with old Pokemon would be writing new dex entries. (Pokemon Concept seems to be referring to new Pokemon) And sure, cutting that would lighten the load for writers-but why not just re-use old dex entries?

The Battle Planning team consists of:

• Shigeki Morimoto, not credited anywhere else
• Kōji Nishino, not credited anywhere else
• Tatsuro Kusano, not credited anywhere else.

There's also a Game Design Balancing team:

• Shohei Kawano, not credited anywhere else
• Jun Ito, not credited anywhere else
• Kei Setoguchi, not credited anywhere else
• Mitsuyo Matsunaga, also credited as Coordinator

If planning battles was their only role in designing the game (apart from Mitsuyo), then the only thing that removing Pokemon would affect would be if they were worried about transfers upsetting the balance in the early game. But they still kept in transferring, it's just blocked for some Pokemon. And yeah, preventing the player from transferring Reshiram in could help with balance, but so could preventing the player from transferring in a Hydreigon, and that's still possible.

The Wild Area is new, but we might be able to find roles close to it in the credits for Game Map Design and Field System Design.

• Chihiro Hayashi, credited under Game Map Design and Trainer Character Concept
• Kazuki Muroi, only credited under Game Map Design
• Yohei Asaoka, only credited under Game Map Design
• Masahiro Takei, only credited under Game Map Design
• Kaori Hayashi, only credited under Game Map Design
• Masafumi Nukita, credited under Pokemon Concept & Pokedex Text, leader of Field System Design, Game Text Localization Support, and Concept Planni
• Hiroyuki Tani, credited under Field System Design and Event Planning / Video Direction
• Atsushi Terachi, credited under Field System Design, Communication Features Planning, and Concept Planning
• Akira Nakamura, only credited under Field System Design
• Kazumasa Iwao, credited as Game Battle System Design Section Director, Field System Design, and Concept Planning

It's the same story here: Nobody that worked in these departments had anything to do with old Pokemon being included.

And it's not because nobody was credited for old Pokemon-there's sections for Pokémon Model Inspection, Pokémon 3D Modeling, and Pokémon Character Motion. I guess it's possible that someone in those departments is going to be brought somewhere else to improve it, but if that person really was a better writer/balancer/mapper, why weren't they on the team in the first place?

They’re not just the same models though. Too many keep saying they have the models from let’s go and usum but they don’t. They’re improving and remaking. Te current ones are different, more detailed, more unique. They are massively different.

@KrisiChiki Some of those may have been bad examples, but it does remain that there is a lot that people want out of the games. And the fandom is so diverse that there is not way to please them all, so they have to do what they can at a time. And that will lead to cuts, unless we want constant repeats of Alola.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

They’re not just the same models though. Too many keep saying they have the models from let’s go and usum but they don’t. They’re improving and remaking. Te current ones are different, more detailed, more unique. They are massively different.

The only change I'm seeing is that the textures look different. There's not extra details on Pikachu. It's not any more unique.

Bunnelby looks to actually be less detailed, with the pink of its ears removed.

Spoiler

Or how about WIngull?

Spoiler

And the fandom is so diverse that there is not way to please them all, so they have to do what they can at a time. And that will lead to cuts

Removing content that was enjoyed while trying to please everyone sounds like a really bad idea. And the question remains-what are we getting in return for these cuts? They don't affect the staff behind story, battle difficulty, or region design. The only other thing you've mentioned is new models-but you've also said that it's unfair for people to criticize the graphics, because that's not all we're getting.

 

[Midorikawa]

View attachment 120679View attachment 120680

The only change I'm seeing is that the textures look different. There's not extra details on Pikachu. It's not any more unique.

Bunnelby looks to actually be less detailed, with the pink of its ears removed.

Spoiler

View attachment 120682View attachment 120683

Or how about WIngull?

Spoiler

View attachment 120684View attachment 120685

Removing content that was enjoyed while trying to please everyone sounds like a really bad idea. And the question remains-what are we getting in return for these cuts? They don't affect the staff behind story, battle difficulty, or region design. The only other thing you've mentioned is new models-but you've also said that it's unfair for people to criticize the graphics, because that's not all we're getting.

That bunnebly actually has an expression. Though the pink being removed does look bad, the rest of it looks good and it looks so clear too.

And I just watched some videos about the graphics and if you look the details of just the trees and water and stuff is so much better than the other games. Even the time of day and shadows are paid attention to.

And we can’t say what we’re getting because the games haven’t been released. Once the games are released and if they haven’t given an amazing game worthy of being the first one on the switch, then I’ll fully support people ripping it apart.

But ripping it apart and saying they haven’t done anything significant before its released isn’t right, Becaise it makes it look bad when we don’t truly know.

And they didn’t just update 3ds and let’s go graphics. They literally created stuff new and made stuff look more realistic. And we have t even seen the final footage yet.

And yes let’s go had shadows on the bodies and stuff, but with the chibi style and stuff, they’re hardly noticeable and barely there. Pay attention to the shadows and details on the characters, how the water reflects and looks like our lakes.

How the time of day can make a whole area look different just because it’s a little darker.

They did a pretty dang good job with design so far.

The game so far has quite a few small details and hopefully the rest of it matches the small ones.

 

[Scruffyjay]

I do actually think that while the pokemon models are the weakest part of the graphics, they do look much better than in previous games. Smoother, less pixely, better shading, maybe even less washed out? Anyway, they look more like proper models now.