• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Generation IV Remake Speculation

Will there be remakes in Gen VIII?


  • Total voters
    263
Status
Not open for further replies.
If gen 4 remakes don't turn out the way we want we can at leats consolodate all our ideas here and make a concept for a fangame we'll never make.
 
I didn't say otherwise. But their dimensions are of time and space. Time and space exist fully in the main world, too, so it's possible that they wouldn't need to adapt their forms in the same way that Giratina does. There is essentially no antimatter in the main world, which is a stark difference from Giratina's realm that is full of antimatter. It has to compensate for a drastic change in environment, whereas Dialga and Palkia will find the same forces in the main world that also exist in their own realms.
Actually, stable space wouldn't exist in Dialga's realm and time wouldn't flow correctly in Palkia's realm, making perfect sense for those two to get Origin forms to make up for the lack of normality of time and space.
 
Last edited:
Actually, stable space wouldn't exist in Dialga's realm and time wouldn't flow correctly in Palkia's realm, making perfect sense for those two to get Origin forms to make up for the lack of normality of time and space.

You base this on...?

If we go by the legends and Pokédex entries, Dialga and Palkia control the motion of time and space.
"A legendary Pokémon of Sinnoh. It is said that time flows when Dialga's heart beats."

"A legendary Pokémon of Sinnoh. It is said that space becomes more stable with Palkia's every breath."

What "lack of normality" is there if they themselves generate normality?
 
You base this on...?

If we go by the legends and Pokédex entries, Dialga and Palkia control the motion of time and space.




What "lack of normality" is there if they themselves generate normality?
There is the lack of space normality in Dialga's dimension and lack of time normality in Palkia's dimension.
 
There is the lack of space normality in Dialga's dimension and lack of time normality in Palkia's dimension.

Who says they need that?

Palkia lives in a realm of space. If it came to our world, it would find that there is still abundant space. Likewise, Dialga lives in a realm of time. And if it came to our world, it would find that there is still abundant time. I wouldn't think the presence or lack of other forces is the problem. In Giratina's case, it changes form when it enters an environment without its own native force. It normally lives in a realm of antimatter, and there is no antimatter here, so an adjustment becomes needed.
 
Not only that, all Giratina's Origin Forme does to it outside of changing its appearance is that it switches its offensive and defensive stats, which isn't exciting.
 
Who says they need that?

Palkia lives in a realm of space. If it came to our world, it would find that there is still abundant space. Likewise, Dialga lives in a realm of time. And if it came to our world, it would find that there is still abundant time. I wouldn't think the presence or lack of other forces is the problem. In Giratina's case, it changes form when it enters an environment without its own native force. It normally lives in a realm of antimatter, and there is no antimatter here, so an adjustment becomes needed.
Except that antimatter does exist on the same plane as matter, so really, time and space are stronger in the respective dimensions of Dialga and Palkia. Things that we can't see exist normally and antimatter is one of them.
 
Except that antimatter does exist on the same plane as matter, so really, time and space are stronger in the respective dimensions of Dialga and Palkia. Things that we can't see exist normally and antimatter is one of them.

Antimatter exists, but generally only on extremely small scales and only for very brief periods of time before it's annihilated. That's my point - in Giratina's world, antimatter is commonplace. Here, it's so negligibly present that in practical terms, there may as well not be any. That's a dramatic change from the sort of environment that Giratina is accustomed to.
 
Antimatter exists, but generally only on extremely small scales and only for very brief periods of time before it's annihilated. That's my point - in Giratina's world, antimatter is commonplace. Here, it's so negligibly present that in practical terms, there may as well not be any. That's a dramatic change from the sort of environment that Giratina is accustomed to.
However, Dialga would still need to accommodate for the existence of abundant space when it comes into our world while Palkia would need to accommodate with the existence of abundant time. That's the point I'm making, in the games, Dialga has never entered Palkia's dimension and vise versa for Palkia. Basically, each would have to get used to the abundance of what they don't control when they come into our world.
 
However, Dialga would still need to accommodate for the existence of abundant space when it comes into our world while Palkia would need to accommodate with the existence of abundant time. That's the point I'm making, in the games, Dialga has never entered Palkia's dimension and vise versa for Palkia. Basically, each would have to get used to the abundance of what they don't control when they come into our world.

And the point I'm making is that it might not matter. Yeah they might have an issue if they try to go into each others' worlds which seem to be either purely time or purely space, but there's a clear difference between Giratina going from a world of antimatter into a world of basically no antimatter, compared to Dialga or Palkia going from worlds of time or space into a world that is still filled with those, just along with other stuff. We don't know if the presence of other forces would affect either of them in the same way that a fundamental lack of its own native force affects Giratina.
 
And the point I'm making is that it might not matter. Yeah they might have an issue if they try to go into each others' worlds which seem to be either purely time or purely space, but there's a clear difference between Giratina going from a world of antimatter into a world of basically no antimatter, compared to Dialga or Palkia going from worlds of time or space into a world that is still filled with those, just along with other stuff. We don't know if the presence of other forces would affect either of them in the same way that a fundamental lack of its own native force affects Giratina.
It would definitely affect them because the presence of the opposite still would affect them in such a way, going from pure time and pure space to something that mixes them is definitely a big change. It's like mixing certain elements together to make a compound that doesn't act like the ones they are composed of, like sodium, one of the elements in which salt is composed of is actually poisonous while the other is tasteless. Mix them together and the compound doesn't have the properties of either, it is the same deal when you have both time and space present compared to the dimensions in which only time or only space is present, it's a big change, which would require a form change in order to navigate a world.
 
It would definitely affect them because the presence of the opposite still would affect them in such a way, going from pure time and pure space to something that mixes them is definitely a big change. It's like mixing certain elements together to make a compound that doesn't act like the ones they are composed of, like sodium, one of the elements in which salt is composed of is actually poisonous while the other is tasteless. Mix them together and the compound doesn't have the properties of either, it is the same deal when you have both time and space present compared to the dimensions in which only time or only space is present, it's a big change, which would require a form change in order to navigate a world.

Alternatively though, think of it like this: Vulpix normally live in the Kantonian grasslands. But they do appear in other regions - for instance, Hoenn, where they are exclusively found living on the side of Mt. Pyre. Despite this being a rather different environment from what they're normally used to, with different altitude, terrain, and wildlife, it provides enough of Vulpix's usual resources so that it doesn't need to change at all in order to thrive there. It is close enough. Whereas in Alola, Vulpix had no choice but to migrate to the summit of Mount Lanakila, which was a much more significant change in environment and necessitated that they adapt in order to survive, ultimately resulting in them changing their form.
 
No offence but had Mt. Pyre been a location in Alola and had GF decided to make Vulpix adapt there instead of Mt. Lanakila, Vulpix would have gotten a Ghost-type Alolan form. Marketing transcends logic in GF's eyes I'm afraid. You can't apply logic to all Alolan forms.
 
No offence but had Mt. Pyre been a location in Alola and had GF decided to make Vulpix adapt there instead of Mt. Lanakila, Vulpix would have gotten a Ghost-type Alolan form. Marketing transcends logic in GF's eyes I'm afraid. You can't apply logic to all Alolan forms.

1) Not necessarily, because Vulpix (more specifically Ninetales, but still) already has supernatural aspects in its regular form. It already fits in with a spiritual place, whereas it would be jarring in an icy biome.

2) If you want to go down the road of could-have-been hypotheticals, we can perform custom rewrites on pretty much anything in the franchise in order to support virtually any argument. I'm only trying to look at it from the view of the games as they actually happened, and as we can clearly observe.

3) Practically speaking, I'm not sure there's much that you actually can apply logic to in Pokémon - it's a very loose, exaggerated reality that makes relatively few attempts to justify itself according to realistic standards, and marketing ultimately takes precedence over everything (see: Mega Mewtwo).
 
I don't think that they would give Dialga and Palkia Origin Formes unless they actually allow the player to access their home dimensions, which I doubt will happen.
 
1) Not necessarily, because Vulpix (more specifically Ninetales, but still) already has supernatural aspects in its regular form. It already fits in with a spiritual place, whereas it would be jarring in an icy biome.
To tell the truth, I always thought that Ninetales should have been Fire/Ghost from the start, specially since most things I have seen with Ninetales focus on the "spiritual" part of it.
 
To tell the truth, I always thought that Ninetales should have been Fire/Ghost from the start, specially since most things I have seen with Ninetales focus on the "spiritual" part of it.

Even the Pokédex gives it an origin story very similar to that of Spiritomb, saying that it came into being when nine saints merged into one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom