SwSh Why are people saying the graphics are "bad"?

[PkmnTrainerV]

Why is Pokemon getting called out on it?

Because graphics was one of the reasons they cited to remove Pokémon?

 

[Oriden]

But this is exactly what we don't want.

This has become a problem of Game Freak as of late. They keep releasing one too many new generations (and paired sequels and remakes) in a very short span of time. Maybe it is their doing, or maybe it is TPCi or Nintendo that is pressuring them to make these yearly releases. But it's something that frankly really needs to stop, as it leads to rushed products being put out to meet demand. SM really should have been developed for the Switch and not 3DS. Game Freak would have had a lot more leeway then to make the game as ambitious as they envisioned without too many technical hurdles. But instead they opted to put the game on 3DS and push it to its absolute limits, just to meet a release quota. Heck, even BW on DS was kind of too much.

I think they were also kind of reluctant to make the switch to... well, Switch. So they wound up pushing the 3DS hardware to its limits. Which probably necessitated a bit of a rush then since the 3DS was at the end of its life span. So that I can at least understand, but SwSh could have used more development time to ensure that they had more time to work on the Pokémon models, and that's where I think they should have changed their plans and opted for a gap year. Maybe it was because of the mixed reception to LGPE though? Whatever the reason, I hope they will adjust their development time for Gen 9 because they won't have a dying hardware to race or a new venture that they need to reassure part of the fan base over... just reassure people that they know how to take more time.

 

[smalllady]

As long as the anime and tcg insist on churning out content and merchandise 24/7, we're never gonna get high-quality 3D games. :\

 

[Silktree]

But the other media have plenty of old Pokemon to use between generations. Only the TCG really tries doing new stuff with as many Pokemon as possible.

I think it's fairer to pin the blame on Game Freak's near annual schedule just working out really well for them.

 

[Oriden]

As long as the anime and tcg insist on churning out content and merchandise 24/7, we're never gonna get high-quality 3D games. :\

The anime could do this crazy thing they did back in the 90s and bridge the gap with original content-- Orange Islands, anyone?

There's enough old material that they don't really need new material every three years. There are plenty of old Pokémon that haven't even gotten merch yet or haven't been re-released in a very long time. Same goes for the TCG, I'm sure.

And besides, in the case of merch, they don't need a new Gen to release more pikachu because you know they're gonna do that regardless.

 

[godiego]

This has become a problem of Game Freak as of late. They keep releasing one too many new generations (and paired sequels and remakes) in a very short span of time. Maybe it is their doing, or maybe it is TPCi or Nintendo that is pressuring them to make these yearly releases. But it's something that frankly really needs to stop, as it leads to rushed products being put out to meet demand. SM really should have been developed for the Switch and not 3DS. Game Freak would have had a lot more leeway then to make the game as ambitious as they envisioned without too many technical hurdles. But instead they opted to put the game on 3DS and push it to its absolute limits, just to meet a release quota. Heck, even BW on DS was kind of too much.

as of late? there's nothing new about their dev cycles. they've always been cranking out games with periodic break years. the only big change is that it's harder to do that with 3D games (shocking!). the quality is about the same as it has ever been, with maybe some exceptions for the GSC-based games; they really did seem to put some love into GSC and HGSS. and i mean, big surprise. sales seem to be fairly inelastic (price of games doesn't seem to be a huge deterrent, content of games doesn't seem to be a huge driver). and with the bulk of the company's revenue likely coming not from the games themselves but the ancillary stuff tied to the franchise (re: merchandise, licensing, TCG, PoGo, etc), why would they make a change?

 

[Stratelier]

Do you honestly think the backwards connectivity in all games since was bringing the games down?

In some ways specifically ... yes. Generation 2 had to preserve the Gen 1 internal data structure, which resulted in oddities like gender and shininess being IV-based, Calcium boosting two stats (Sp.Atk and Sp.Def were split, yes, but the IVs/EVs for them were still combined), and so on. There is literally only so much data that the Gen 1 structure could contain (or otherwise encode), so while forcing a compatibility break between Johto and Hoenn was unfortunate, it enabled them to rewrite the data structure from the ground up and add new features to species that just weren't possible before.

And in the broader sense, definitely yes. I mentioned it before: when every new generation adds new species, moves, and/or abilities, AND features returning species learning the new moves, it's somebody's job to spend time figuring out how to update whatever older species return in the new region. And as much as Game Freak is hit/miss when it comes to competitive balance, sometimes a new ability or rule change can indirectly affect old Pokemon and somebody has to find the really big ones (e.g. No Guard Fissure Machamp) before release.

 

[Silktree]

The VC games prove that you can carry over Pokemon from old data structures.

They don't have to find all the broken Pokemon before release because tournaments and Battle Spot have rulesets. But that sounds like a fun job for one person or two, anyway.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

In some ways specifically ... yes. Generation 2 had to preserve the Gen 1 internal data structure, which resulted in oddities like gender and shininess being IV-based, Calcium boosting two stats (Sp.Atk and Sp.Def were split, yes, but the IVs/EVs for them were still combined), and so on. There is literally only so much data that the Gen 1 structure could contain (or otherwise encode), so while forcing a compatibility break between Johto and Hoenn was unfortunate, it enabled them to rewrite the data structure from the ground up and add new features to species that just weren't possible before.

In addition to Silktree's point about data, rewriting the data structure is clearly not what is happening in SwSh. Not only do we have gameplay footage showing that nothing's been changed, we also still have Pokemon that are getting transferred.

And in the broader sense, definitely yes. I mentioned it before: when every new generation adds new species, moves, and/or abilities, AND features returning species learning the new moves, it's somebody's job to spend time figuring out how to update whatever older species return in the new region. And as much as Game Freak is hit/miss when it comes to competitive balance, sometimes a new ability or rule change can indirectly affect old Pokemon and somebody has to find the really big ones (e.g. No Guard Fissure Machamp) before release.

The department for game balance was, as of SuMo, only four people, only one of whom worked on any other department for the game. (Past games didn't have any dedicated team) So even if they were getting a larger workload from updates, so what? They weren't adding anything else to the game, so lightening their load wouldn't have improved things.

And this problem is not being avoided by SwSh's dex cut. They're still adding in old Pokemon, and these old Pokemon are all getting Dynamax forms for sure, and possibly new moves.

Also...you just argued that the compatibility break was a good thing because we got new features for old species, but allowing transferring for other games was bad because...we got new features for old species? Following your reasoning that "adding new elements to battling means someone has to balance them, and that brings the game down", the restructuring in RSE would have been absolutely terrible, adding abilities for every Pokemon, double battles, and 121 moves, all of which would have to be balanced.

 

[Oriden]

In some ways specifically ... yes. Generation 2 had to preserve the Gen 1 internal data structure, which resulted in oddities like gender and shininess being IV-based, Calcium boosting two stats (Sp.Atk and Sp.Def were split, yes, but the IVs/EVs for them were still combined), and so on. There is literally only so much data that the Gen 1 structure could contain (or otherwise encode), so while forcing a compatibility break between Johto and Hoenn was unfortunate, it enabled them to rewrite the data structure from the ground up and add new features to species that just weren't possible before.

And in the broader sense, definitely yes. I mentioned it before: when every new generation adds new species, moves, and/or abilities, AND features returning species learning the new moves, it's somebody's job to spend time figuring out how to update whatever older species return in the new region. And as much as Game Freak is hit/miss when it comes to competitive balance, sometimes a new ability or rule change can indirectly affect old Pokemon and somebody has to find the really big ones (e.g. No Guard Fissure Machamp) before release.

As far as I am aware, the reason we couldn't transfer pokemon between Gen 2 and 3 was due to hardware, with GBC games being unable to detect GBA link cables and GBA games being unable to detect GBC cables. They probably could have programmed it to translate Gen 2 data into Gen 3 data, but there was no point because there wasn't any way to communicate between the GBC and GBA games.

Even if it was due to code, that simply isn't the situation we're in now because the code no longer relies on limited data to determine features- everything has its own indicator instead of all trying to factor from the same number. Older games aren't holding new games back now because you can specifically target each stat and convert it to a newer system.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

The VC games prove that you can carry over Pokemon from old data structures.

I thought that Bank revamped their data structures when transferred?

 

[Silktree]

To be fair, Masuda told us (in 2017) not to expect too much because "making games is hard." That's why I've always had trepidations about these games.

“Of course, it is very difficult to make the game, so I hope people don’t get their expectations up too high. We’ll do our best.”

I thought that Bank revamped their data structures when transferred?

That's what I meant. I guess "carry over" is a poor choice of words.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

That's what I meant. I guess "carry over" is a poor choice of words.

No, I got what you meant there. What I thought you said was that the Pokemon from the VC games kept their data structures when transferred, which doesn't happen. The debate started because Gen 2 had to keep some of the old data structures to be compatible with Gen 1, whereas now that is no longer an issue because Bank recodes the Pokemon from scratch.

 

[Boss1708]

IMO, the graphics of SwSh are only ok, for a Switch game.

Of course, they are great for Pokémon standards.

 

[Silktree]

I meant that the main data most players care about (level, moves, shininess, gender and nickname) is retained. For whatever reason, IVs are generated independently of the DVs.

 

[AngryBinacle]

How can the graphics be "great" if shadows are low quality, surface-textures are low-res (trees, rocks... Oh and that fruit-tree anyone?), water has no rippling effects, water-splashes are up in the air instead of in the water, some attacks aren't placed correctly (Dynamaxed Charizard shoots fire from his shoulders), objects float above the ground, as well as some characters. I will not talk about the dex, as that has been done to Oblivion.

There's still a lot of polishing to do. A LOT. How can people defend this? Isn't quality important anymore?

This is not the quality we're used to. There's a difference between graphical style and bad graphics. The examples I posted are bad and unnecessary.

 

[BlueWaves]

I'm not sure if this belongs with "bad graphics" section, but one thing I've come to dislike in the 3DS games is how out of proportion the models are with the Pokemon's actual height. Look at Alolan Exeggcutor:

See how its head goes off the screen, Aloan Exeggcutor is 35:09 inches, and goes off screen, yet Wailord who is 47 Ft .doesn't.

Now it could make sense on the 3DS due to technical limitations, but there's no reason for this on the Switch. I'm hoping for this to be fixed, but considering their using space on another gimmick that is going to be disbanded next gen makes me doubt it.
EDIT: More accurate depiction of Wailord's height.

 

[godiego]

There's still a lot of polishing to do. A LOT. How can people defend this? Isn't quality important anymore?

This is not the quality we're used to. There's a difference between graphical style and bad graphics. The examples I posted are bad and unnecessary.

you're right it's not the quality we're used to; we're used to even worse.

it's not that people don't care about quality, but it's also about having realistic expectations. like, i don't know where you've been for the past couple of decades, but Pokemon games' graphics have pretty much always been mediocre to sub-par. hell, it's only in the the 3DS era that they've even gotten an ounce closer to being vaguely on par with other games.

 

[Oriden]

How can the graphics be "great" if shadows are low quality, surface-textures are low-res (trees, rocks... Oh and that fruit-tree anyone?), water has no rippling effects, water-splashes are up in the air instead of in the water, some attacks aren't placed correctly (Dynamaxed Charizard shoots fire from his shoulders), objects float above the ground, as well as some characters. I will not talk about the dex, as that has been done to Oblivion.

Are we... looking at the same water, by any chance?

Because that looks like rippling water to me. Unless you mean that they should have 100% realistic water effects then... wow, other games must be spoiling you rotten.

 

[Esserise]

objects float above the ground, as well as some characters.

correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure this was also a problem in some LGPE trailers, but it was fixed in the full release. there's a reason why they put the "game footage not final" note in there.

See how its head goes off the screen, Aloan Exeggcutor is 35:09 inches, and goes off screen, yet Wailord who is 47 Ft .doesn't.

difference there is that Exeggutor is only large vertically. its head goes off the screen, but otherwise it fills the same amount of space as any other Pokémon. Wailord is large in every dimension; it would look incredibly awkward if it were scaled to full size on the battlefield, because it would blot everything out.