SwSh Villain Team Speculation

[godiego]

@Knightwolf09 You just gave me an idea: what if the reason Team Yell is backing Marnie is because she found out about the corrupt league and everyone at Team Yell thinks Marnie has the best chance at "fixing" Galar's Pokémon League?

the biggest problem with a league corruption plot (although it would be a lovely parallel to actual FIFA), is that it's not a very 'tangible' story. what i mean by that is that it lacks that sort of momentum needed in a kids'/younger people's story. might make an interesting TV drama or book, but for a kids video game that plotline lacks the meat needed.

The first instance I bolded is important: why do they want Marnie specifically to become Galar's champion, let alone get passionate enough to do what they do for her in the first place? They don't really seem evil at all if the caption about Marnie being able to get them to stop certain instances of trouble-making is any indication.

Again, this makes me question why they do these things in the first place and what they see in her.

well, i think the site does explicitly say that they like Marnie because they think she's pretty and talented. and i think the important thing to note is that Team Yell is quite literally fans (stans?). so if football is to gym battles, then clubs are to the trainers themselves. so they want her to be the champion of Galar because go Real Madrid.

Now, let's turn our attention to Marnie's description.

Now, what exactly is this goal of Marnie's anyways? It could be about charity donations or something not really related to the plot, but I find it more likely that this goal of hers is the very reason why Team Yell backs her up in the first place. Given how they're well-intentioned and the fact that Marnie doesn't seem malicious, I think it's possible that Marnie and Team Yell caught on to the Pokémon League's corruption, leading to Marnie having a secretive reason for becoming champion while also explaining why Team Yell is going to such extremes to keep Marnie on top (as she's the only person they trust to reform the Galar Pokémon League).

so as a starting point i think it's pretty important to note that both Bede and Marnie are stated to have ~ secret ~ plans. Bede clearly seems to be shaping up to be a major, if not the primary, antagonist of the game. Marnie seems like she's slated to play a Lillie-esque role in the story. so it would seem almost that her story is going to be explicitly stopping Bede or impeding (whether by actual knowledge of Bede's plans or knowing that someone could eventually cause a problem) someone like Bede from doing bad.

the other big problem i would say with a "League reform" story is that becoming champion seemingly wouldn't resolve it. you know, tracing back to the analogy, with the League being FIFA, there doesn't seem like there'd be much she would be empowered to do as champion.

Not only would this avoid having Team Yell being a complete retread of Team Skull (being hired by someone to make Marnie look bad is too much like how Lusamine used Team Skull), but this would technically give us a genuine vigilante team! Team Plasma came close to this, but they were manipulated by the Seven Sages (mainly Ghetsis) from the get-go so that kind of negates their status under the well-intentioned umbrella.

the execution can matter though. i mean, Team Rocket through Flare were literally all the same song and dance, but they're still a degree distinct simply because of the personalities involved, their goals, and what they end up doing. Team Yell seems truly benign; Team Skull was written to be aimless and comical simply because they were there to eventually be a ~ twist ~ and reveal the real antagonist as Lusamine.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

the biggest problem with a league corruption plot (although it would be a lovely parallel to actual FIFA), is that it's not a very 'tangible' story. what i mean by that is that it lacks that sort of momentum needed in a kids'/younger people's story. might make an interesting TV drama or book, but for a kids video game that plotline lacks the meat needed.

And how is that any worse from a group of hooligans promoting their idol by stopping other contestants from competing?

I didn't expect much from Team Yell but they still managed to disappoint me. We've had gangsters dealing in underground crimes, warring teams debating over the Best End of World Outcome, PETA of the Round Table, and genocidal fashion police. But for Sw/Sh we instead just get a bunch of punk fanboys?

I haven't watched the Direct and the only things I know are from reading a recap on Serebii, so maybe I'm generalizing this. But from what I see, Yell looks ridiculous. I honestly prefer what the rumored "leaks" were speculating. I don't see how a League scandal isn't a tangible enough story for kids considering the same series also brought in animal ethics and genocide onto the table. A League scandal would be tame.

 

[Midorikawa]

So... the new evil team is a bunch of weirdos stalking some teenage girl around?

That’s... creepy...

It’s platonic, they swear. At least there is no S support option.

I'm noticing that Team Yell is just now generating very hazardous memes, and from both sides of the fanbase for and against Gamefreak. Each side is starting to portray each other of acting like this evil fandom - and I sense that whatever intentions Game Freak had of making this team, it could end up polarizing the fanbases even more... Rather grim, if you ask me.

Which is ridiculous. GF no doubt did not consider online fandoms when designing them. Well not in the way of things like Pokémon. It’s clear they looked more towards idol fans and sports fans.

Not only would this avoid having Team Yell being a complete retread of Team Skull (being hired by someone to make Marnie look bad is too much like how Lusamine used Team Skull), but this would technically give us a genuine vigilante team! Team Plasma came close to this, but they were manipulated by the Seven Sages (mainly Ghetsis) from the get-go so that kind of negates their status under the well-intentioned umbrella.

Team plasma was partially manipulated not completely. Even the Seven Sages wasn’t unified as we saw with BW2 where you had two factions of plasma.

As long as they’re not just manipulated by someone or the big bad of the main plot, then I’m fine wth them. I like the idea of a few different types of antagonists instead of them all being one like in SM. Especially since Aether was so obviously evil to me the moment I met them.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Interesting choice to use the fandom as an evil team

 

[AngryBinacle]

Interesting choice to use the fandom as an evil team

It's not the fandom. They're football-hooligans.

 

[godiego]

And how is that any worse from a group of hooligans promoting their idol by stopping other contestants from competing?

I didn't expect much from Team Yell but they still managed to disappoint me. We've had gangsters dealing in underground crimes, warring teams debating over the Best End of World Outcome, PETA of the Round Table, and genocidal fashion police. But for Sw/Sh we instead just get a bunch of punk fanboys?

I haven't watched the Direct and the only things I know are from reading a recap on Serebii, so maybe I'm generalizing this. But from what I see, Yell looks ridiculous. I honestly prefer what the rumored "leaks" were speculating. I don't see how a League scandal isn't a tangible enough story for kids considering the same series also brought in animal ethics and genocide onto the table. A League scandal would be tame.

Team Yell is clearly not the primary antagonist and i already said in my post that Bede was shaping up to have that role. and even if Bede doesn't turn out to be an antagonist, it doesn't take much critical thinking to see that Team Yell probably (definitely) isn't meant to be the main villains, especially when the person they support so ardently (likely) is a protagonist.

as for tangibility it would simply be because a League scandal isn't, well, evil. and really you just end up with the story revolving around whatever bad things Rose (?) would do to ensure that the scandal didn't break out which ends up with basically a story that doesn't make too much sense anyways because again, not a book or TV drama. anything he ends up doing will end up being overly excessive.

 

[Knightwolf09]

It's not the fandom. They're football-hooligans.

Either way really. If they're community of fans, it's a fandom.

 

[AngryBinacle]

Either way really. If they're community of fans, it's a fandom.

Some of you are talking as if it's a jab at this fandom. It ain't.

The team was conceived way before any controversy, anyway.

 

[godiego]

i think they're saying it's any fandom, regardless of whether it's Pokemon (pre post inter whatever) or kpop or whatever.

 

[Knightwolf09]

Some of you are talking as if it's a jab at this fandom. It ain't.

The team was conceived way before any controversy, anyway.

Only to a toxic side of fandoms, not fandoms in general

 

[Midorikawa]

as for tangibility it would simply be because a League scandal isn't, well, evil. and really you just end up with the story revolving around whatever bad things Rose (?) would do to ensure that the scandal didn't break out which ends up with basically a story that doesn't make too much sense anyways because again, not a book or TV drama. anything he ends up doing will end up being overly excessive.

Um...what? How does that not make sense just because it’s not a show or book? You do realize that those plots are based on people doing stuff like that. And I’ve played games with corruption as part of the plot before so it’s not impossible. In fact it’s likely Becaise Pokémon hasn’t ever been that good at plot twists with their villains.

Either way really. If they're community of fans, it's a fandom.

Fandom is usually used in reference to fictional things though. Like you don’t hear “the Justin Bieber fandom is so supportive” it’s more of “Justin Bieber fans are supportive.”

It does technically refer to any type of fan but fandom isn’t usually used that way.

 

[Almonds]

Fandom is usually used in reference to fictional things though. Like you don’t hear “the Justin Bieber fandom is so supportive” it’s more of “Justin Bieber fans are supportive.”

It does technically refer to any type of fan but fandom isn’t usually used that way.

Fandom does refer to being fans of real things as well. The most popular reference would be Idol Fandoms.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Am I the only one who thought that Bede was just an older lady and not a male!?

Team Yell seems just like Team Skull...

 

[AngryBinacle]

They're clearly hooligans/sport-fans; not any and all fandoms.

You guys seen English football-rivalries? They're hardcore.

 

[Knightwolf09]

Am I the only one who thought that Bede was just an older lady and not a male!?

Team Yell seems just like Team Skull...unemployed and wasted humans that live on social security and their parents' house.

Pretty sure it's litterally because of the white hair that gave you that impression. And that confuses me. Has nobody seen game character with white hair before?

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Pretty sure it's litterally because of the white hair that gave you that impression. And that confuses me. Has nobody seen game character with white hair before?

It wasn't just the colour of the hair, but the hairstyle (it seems that has not been brusched) and the pink/purple outfit that from the trailer looks like a training suit...and a trope on some couples that on Sunday wear training suits...In my mind all I could remember was an older version of Vicky Pollard (google it, it from a British show)

 

[godiego]

Um...what? How does that not make sense just because it’s not a show or book? You do realize that those plots are based on people doing stuff like that. And I’ve played games with corruption as part of the plot before so it’s not impossible. In fact it’s likely Becaise Pokémon hasn’t ever been that good at plot twists with their villains.

medium is important for story. why don't you see many (any?) "rom com" video games? because it wouldn't make sense. additionally, corruption is a theme and a plot device; it doesn't make for a great central plot, especially when you take into consideration Pokemon. like, what is Rose going to be engaged in? match-fixing? how do you even realistically portray that in Pokemon? do i, despite wiping the floor with Milo, still get declared loser? when i find out what Rose is up to is he just going to throw me in jail? remove my ability to take on gyms? like, how Pokemon works is just incompatible with this type of story.

 

[prog rocker]

They're clearly hooligans/sport-fans; not any and all fandoms.

You guys seen English football-rivalries? They're hardcore.

I know. In my country there are stories of hooligans that put hits on hooligans that support opposite teams. Seriously. And then there was the incident where one of them decided to play real life Donkey Kong in a stadium.

 

[AngryBinacle]

I know. In my country there are stories of hooligans that put hits on hooligans that support opposite teams. Seriously. And then there was the incident where one of them decided to play real life Donkey Kong in a stadium.

They also invented curbstomping.

EDIT: Although, not so sure anymore. Anyway, they were and still are a rough bunch.

 

[Almonds]

medium is important for story. why don't you see many (any?) "rom com" video games? because it wouldn't make sense. additionally, corruption is a theme and a plot device; it doesn't make for a great central plot, especially when you take into consideration Pokemon. like, what is Rose going to be engaged in? match-fixing? how do you even realistically portray that in Pokemon? do i, despite wiping the floor with Milo, still get declared loser? when i find out what Rose is up to is he just going to throw me in jail? remove my ability to take on gyms? like, how Pokemon works is just incompatible with this type of story.

You can win the battle but still get declared a loser story-wise, for example, by being forced into a game mechanic that you were "advised" to use, but turned out to be a cheating thing (with the adviser having no idea that it was a cheating thing). A similar thing happens in an Ace Attorney game:

Spoiler: spoilers for Apollo Justice

When you play as the lawyer Phoenix Wright, you are given fake evidence before a trial and eventually you have to use it - but it turns out to be fabricated.

Or, in another way, you could win and then Rose pops up and says that the rules changed a few seconds before your battle begun and you are forced a loss. If Rose throws you in jail, you could be given a mission to escape the jail and announce the truth to the world. These are just a few examples that they could take in the scenarios you mention.

Pokemon might not be a visual novel, but it can still bring in interesting story elements. All it needs is a bit of Pokemon-ifying adjustments to make it work. It doesn't have to work the same way as other video games.