American Politics Thread

[PocketMonster]

There's a lot of in your post that I disagree with, but I'll for now concentrate on this one point:



Do you have any proof whatsoever for this claim? Because all of the polling that I've so far seen says that a vast majority of Bernie's voters held their nose and voted for Hillary.

That's ok. I don't expect anyone to agree. Most people have their views on politics because of their experience. Meaning they go with what they see or suspect for various reasons. Kinda like how everyone was so certain that Hilary would win because of this or that. Or how this time so many think that Trump will win again because of this or that. And because it is something they are so passionate about, they seem to be certain about their views and feelings.
For proof? well not now, but I have seen so many countless polls that said this. However polls aren't even reliable now. One news station says one thing another another or the same one flips. but I have seen "interview" videos online that asked prior Bernie supporters who they went too afterwards. I also think it makes sense on how Trump won, though alot of people try to say that the electoral vote isn't right or fair. And looking on paper, their stuff were much closer than what Hilary had.
I just hope that whoever wins 2020, that

1. if it is a democrat that they at least appear to be a good genuine leader who actually is going to try to improve things and Also not try to put us right into war with Russia (like Hilary was advocating).
2. If it is a republican I am actually very nervous because there are some pretty nutty ones (in my opinion of course) that give me great concerns of people being persecuted and discriminated against because of their faith (whatever that faith may be) Whether the republican themselves cause this drive or they indirectly cause it through masses of people.

This kind of thing is a concern every election for me but for now I have it more so with the republican party.

It is these kinds of things that go through my mind.
I mostly came here though to see who others are considering* to support because it is something I need to start thinking about myself esp being an Independent. And I would be shocked if the person isn't one of these two parties. I only brought up Bernie here because that was just a disappointment.

edit * typo

 

[zoroarctic]

Trump displays seemingly edited map of Hurricane Dorian's projected path

What are we doing here?

 

[Volphied]

For proof? well not now, but I have seen so many countless polls that said this.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt you've seen any polls that said it.

Also not try to put us right into war with Russia (like Hilary was advocating)

I've never understood why people believed this myth. I've never seen her calling for this. Meanwhile, the US has been repeatedly at the edge of war with both North Korea and Venezueal with Trump as president.

Frankly, Trump is the only person mentally unstable enough to start a war for no reason. Why people think otherwise baffles me. I guess the 30 years long Republican smear campaign against Hillary was wildly successful.

Trump displays seemingly edited map of Hurricane Dorian's projected path

What are we doing here?

It's simple. Trump would rather create an alternate reality than admit he was wrong.

 

[PocketMonster]

Sorry, but I seriously doubt you've seen any polls that said it.

I've never understood why people believed this myth. I've never seen her calling for this. Meanwhile, the US has been repeatedly at the edge of war with both North Korea and Venezueal with Trump as president.

Frankly, Trump is the only person mentally unstable enough to start a war for no reason. Why people think otherwise baffles me. I guess the 30 years long Republican smear campaign against Hillary was wildly successful.



It's simple. Trump would rather create an alternate reality than admit he was wrong.

well you can doubt all you want but I have seen it multiple times. And this shouldn't even be a surprise because of how much flip flopping happened during that time.
It isn't a myth, I watch her speeches myself. North Korea seems to be more stable now than before, and I haven't seen anything indicating we are at the edge of war with Venezuela.
Trump is by far not the only mentally unstable person to start a war for no reason. There are people in both in the republican and democratic party. It baffles me that there are some people who think Trump is the only one that is concerning. And He is. I mean just look at his Twittering. That is complete careless impulse actions. As for the "30 years of Republican smearing Hilary" yeah, I have heard plenty of democrats saying their own 2 cents about Hilary for a very long time because they have observed. Not so much now since Trump has been on the stage though. Hilary doesn't need someone to smear her though. She does a good job of that herself honestly. People just happen to observe. You can't hide large things like the sun and moon forever and patterns are easy to pick up on. And as for Trump I think it is more about his mouth and lack of self control than his mental state when it comes to provoking other countries. His ego is a problem though. So I guess you Could count that.

 

[Volphied]

well you can doubt all you want but I have seen it multiple times.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Post proof if you want anyone to believe you.

North Korea seems to be more stable now than before

Have we forgotten that it was Trump who started his presidency by threatening to nuke North Korea using his "big red button", or how his bumbling attempt to reach an understanding collapsed in Hanoi? As a result, North Korea has returned to threathening its neighbours with missile tests:

North Korea tests 'short-range ballistic missiles'

North Korea has fired two missiles into the sea, its fifth such launch in recent weeks. The missiles are thought to be short-range ballistic missiles, South Korea's military says.

If the use of such missiles is confirmed it would be a breach of 11 UN Security Council resolutions. The launches come after US President Donald Trump said he had received a "very beautiful letter" from North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

, and I haven't seen anything indicating we are at the edge of war with Venezuela.

Trump's been loudly calling for a invasion.

We need to talk about the fact that Trump seriously considered invading Venezuela

It’s a disastrous idea.

www.vox.com

According to multiple reports, Trump continuously asked his top advisers last August about a military option for overthrowing Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and quelling the growing political and economic crisis his mismanagement of that country has wrought.

H.R. McMaster, then Trump’s national security adviser, and others pushed back hard on Trump’s idea, explaining to him that an invasion was unlikely to work and that it would turn regional allies against the US.

That apparently didn’t deter Trump.

On August 11, 2017 — the day after he spoke with McMaster — Trump publicly threatened a “military option” for Venezuela while talking to reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. His comments, coming seemingly out of the blue, shocked pretty much everyone — not least Venezuela.

 

[PocketMonster]

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Post proof if you want anyone to believe you.



Have we forgotten that it was Trump who started his presidency by threatening to nuke North Korea using his "big red button", or how his bumbling attempt to reach an understanding collapsed in Hanoi? As a result, North Korea has returned to threathening its neighbours with missile tests:

North Korea tests 'short-range ballistic missiles'

North Korea has fired two missiles into the sea, its fifth such launch in recent weeks. The missiles are thought to be short-range ballistic missiles, South Korea's military says.

If the use of such missiles is confirmed it would be a breach of 11 UN Security Council resolutions. The launches come after US President Donald Trump said he had received a "very beautiful letter" from North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.



Trump's been loudly calling for a invasion.

We need to talk about the fact that Trump seriously considered invading Venezuela

It’s a disastrous idea.

www.vox.com

According to multiple reports, Trump continuously asked his top advisers last August about a military option for overthrowing Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and quelling the growing political and economic crisis his mismanagement of that country has wrought.

H.R. McMaster, then Trump’s national security adviser, and others pushed back hard on Trump’s idea, explaining to him that an invasion was unlikely to work and that it would turn regional allies against the US.

That apparently didn’t deter Trump.

On August 11, 2017 — the day after he spoke with McMaster — Trump publicly threatened a “military option” for Venezuela while talking to reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. His comments, coming seemingly out of the blue, shocked pretty much everyone — not least Venezuela.

well i'm not really here to debate. But it did cross my mind that perhaps you may not live in the usa. ( I don't know ) If so, then that would explain why you seem to not know what I am talking about with the polls and media flipping and flopping as the polls were delivered through the media. Something that very well may not have happened outside the usa. And most people know what I am talking about when I mention it but i usually lightly talk about politics with Americans. And again, I can't show you these things now because that was THEN. But this is the closest that I can show you. It addresses that simply they having Hilary instead of Bernie actually gave Trump the win. But not that most Bernie supports went towards trump. Bernie Sanders voters helped Trump win and here's proof
Actually there were things about the election for Obama both times that didn't come out until towards the end of his time that went to the effect of, "well it was such and such afterall.." it's the American Media...This is why so many Americans hold on so much to opinions when it comes to politics. idk about other countries.
Yes Trump did this. That was obvious. But at the same Time we were already having issues with North Korea and threats and they were already threatening their neighbors. While Russia at the time was doing nothing new and just routine things towards the usa and if Hilary did get office and had her way, Russia issues would have accelerated as Trump did little towards Russia and she had plans for much more. things between USA and Russia seem to be fine as far as I have heard. And If I am not mistaken Hilary also addressed North Korea a bit too.
Venezuela, That (mentioning Military Option to the media which was stupid to do) was "threats" not calling for an invasion. "Military Option" It was a tactic. Not that I agree with it. And he was willing to listen to advisers, something I don't think Hilary would have done thinking back on how she acted on past things. Granted, Trump hasn't had a history and is more like a "wild card" that American's chose because they kinda know what to expect from Hilary already.
I also want to mention there is a huge difference between North Korea, Venezuela, and Russia. That is Russia can easily overpower and win a war against the USA. Venezuela there were a few reasons why USA was concerned about them. Among them, the humanitarian crisis.
but from here we can agree to disagree.
But I must ask, after all of this, why are you so interested in talking about Trump when we are going to have an election soon that very well could put someone else as the President of usa? And who would you like or have in mind best for the job? And why? like what about them makes them stand out more than others to you? Because honestly I feel 50/50 that Trump will be re-elected. And that will heavily depend on What party puts what person in the spotlight. (because though slim it could be a different party instead of the typical democrat)

 

[zoroarctic]

View: https://twitter.com/forecasterenten/status/1169701065903738882?s=21


This gives me hope.

 

[Volphied]

well i'm not really here to debate. But it did cross my mind that perhaps you may not live in the usa. ( I don't know ) If so, then that would explain why you seem to not know what I am talking about with the polls and media flipping and flopping as the polls were delivered through the media. Something that very well may not have happened outside the usa. And most people know what I am talking about when I mention it but i usually lightly talk about politics with Americans. And again, I can't show you these things now because that was THEN. But this is the closest that I can show you. It addresses that simply they having Hilary instead of Bernie actually gave Trump the win. But not that most Bernie supports went towards trump. Bernie Sanders voters helped Trump win and here's proof

That article you linked doesn't say the same thing you claimed earlier. The overwhelming majority of Bernie voters went to Hillary.

The Bernie voters who defected to Trump, explained by a political scientist

A new study found that about 12 percent of Sanders voters from the primary supported Trump in the general election.

www.vox.com

And the analysis certainly doesn’t necessarily prove Sanders would have won — Schaffner also found that 34 percent of John Kasich’s GOP primary supporters backed Clinton in the general; perhaps more would have stayed in the Republican camp had Sanders been the Democrats’ nominee, or perhaps fewer of Hillary Clinton’s voters would have voted for Sanders.

Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

Schaffner found some demographic characteristics that might align with what you’d expect — Bernie-Trump voters were older and whiter than the average Democratic primary voter, for instance.

Also of note: the Bernie-Trump voter also proved much more likely to consider himself or herself “somewhat conservative” or “very conservative” than the average Democrat. Sanders, of course, ran on a policy platform well to Clinton’s left — but was able to do so in a way that allowed him to win over voters that disdain the “liberal” label.

Yes Trump did this. That was obvious. But at the same Time we were already having issues with North Korea and threats and they were already threatening their neighbors. While Russia at the time was doing nothing new and just routine things towards the usa and if Hilary did get office and had her way, Russia issues would have accelerated as Trump did little towards Russia and she had plans for much more. things between USA and Russia seem to be fine as far as I have heard. And If I am not mistaken Hilary also addressed North Korea a bit too.

"Routine things towards the USA"? Have we already forgotten that they hijacked the 2016 election? Have we already forgotten they invaded Ukraine and flooded Syria with mercenaries? Yeah, Trump did little towards Russia, since he's been acting as Putin's puppet and allowed Russian imperialism to run unchecked. Hillary would merely continue Obama's policy towards Russia, which FYI didn't end in a war during Obama's 8 years. The EU has been now pushing a much harder line against Russian aggression than Trump's administration, yet we're not at war either. Or do you really think that the fact that Trump stonewalled US sanctions against Russian means the US avoided war?

Venezuela, That (mentioning Military Option to the media which was stupid to do) was "threats" not calling for an invasion. "Military Option" It was a tactic. Not that I agree with it. And he was willing to listen to advisers, something I don't think Hilary would have done thinking back on how she acted on past things.

He's also since then purged his advisors and surrounded himself with chickenhawks like Bolton. Which means there won't be anymore left to talk him out of his next attempt to start a war. Also, I call bullshit on your claim that Hillary would ignore her advisors. Trump is infamous for routinely ignoring experts and preferring to act by his own "guts". Maybe you didn't notice but he's right now even ignoring his own meteorologists (and reality itself) to insist that Alabama would be hit by a hurricane. Because of Trump's utter ignorance and unpredictability the US is much closer to a sudden war. And as elections draw near, the temptation to start a war in a desperate attempt to save Trump's crumbling poll numbers increases.

Also, if Hillary was issuing the same "threats" that Trump did, I'm 100% sure you'd be pointing to it as more proof of her being a warmonger.

But I must ask, after all of this, why are you so interested in talking about Trump when we are going to have an election soon that very well could put someone else as the President of usa?

I'm talking about Trump because he's running to be re-elected.

Hillary isn't running in the election, so why are YOU bringing her up?

And who would you like or have in mind best for the job? And why? like what about them makes them stand out more than others to you? Because honestly I feel 50/50 that Trump will be re-elected. And that will heavily depend on What party puts what person in the spotlight. (because though slim it could be a different party instead of the typical democrat)

If the elections were today then Trump would not be re-elected. His numbers have sharply fallen. Read the previous posts to see me and swiftfox linking polls where he's loosing to all of the major Democratic candidates.

 

[PocketMonster]

That article you linked doesn't say the same thing you claimed earlier. The overwhelming majority of Bernie voters went to Hillary.

The Bernie voters who defected to Trump, explained by a political scientist

A new study found that about 12 percent of Sanders voters from the primary supported Trump in the general election.

www.vox.com

And the analysis certainly doesn’t necessarily prove Sanders would have won — Schaffner also found that 34 percent of John Kasich’s GOP primary supporters backed Clinton in the general; perhaps more would have stayed in the Republican camp had Sanders been the Democrats’ nominee, or perhaps fewer of Hillary Clinton’s voters would have voted for Sanders.

Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

Schaffner found some demographic characteristics that might align with what you’d expect — Bernie-Trump voters were older and whiter than the average Democratic primary voter, for instance.

Also of note: the Bernie-Trump voter also proved much more likely to consider himself or herself “somewhat conservative” or “very conservative” than the average Democrat. Sanders, of course, ran on a policy platform well to Clinton’s left — but was able to do so in a way that allowed him to win over voters that disdain the “liberal” label.



"Routine things towards the USA"? Have we already forgotten that they hijacked the 2016 election? Have we already forgotten they invaded Ukraine and flooded Syria with mercenaries? Yeah, Trump did little towards Russia, since he's been acting as Putin's puppet and allowed Russian imperialism to run unchecked. Hillary would merely continue Obama's policy towards Russia, which FYI didn't end in a war during Obama's 8 years. The EU has been now pushing a much harder line against Russian aggression than Trump's administration, yet we're not at war either. Or do you really think that the fact that Trump stonewalled US sanctions against Russian means the US avoided war?



He's also since then purged his advisors and surrounded himself with chickenhawks like Bolton. Which means there won't be anymore left to talk him out of his next attempt to start a war. Also, I call bullshit on your claim that Hillary would ignore her advisors. Trump is infamous for routinely ignoring experts and preferring to act by his own "guts". Maybe you didn't notice but he's right now even ignoring his own meteorologists (and reality itself) to insist that Alabama would be hit by a hurricane. Because of Trump's utter ignorance and unpredictability the US is much closer to a sudden war. And as elections draw near, the temptation to start a war in a desperate attempt to save Trump's crumbling poll numbers increases.

Also, if Hillary was issuing the same "threats" that Trump did, I'm 100% sure you'd be pointing to it as more proof of her being a warmonger.




I'm talking about Trump because he's running to be re-elected.

Hillary isn't running in the election, so why are YOU bringing her up?



If the elections were today then Trump would not be re-elected. His numbers have sharply fallen. Read the previous posts to see me and swiftfox linking polls where he's loosing to all of the major Democratic candidates.

yes I already said that it doesn't say what I said earlier. idk why that is ignored. And yes routine things towards the USA. Just as I said. However I don't believe they hijacked the election. Kinda like how you call bullshit on my opinion that I think Hilary would ignore her advisers. I mean I did say I think hence an opinion. I have not forgotten Ukraine nor Syria though Syria already had tons of issues already caused by or at least enhanced by the USA. War and money often go hand in hand and the middle east has alot of oil. Hilary wanted to go beyond Obama's policy. If it appeared she would stick with Obama's then I wouldn't have an issue. After all I was fine with Obama being in office for both terms, though not as thrilled the second term but he was a better option at that time. As for his advisers, yes, however like we already established his time is about up. And yes trump as ignored experts but like I said, at the time of the last election he was a wild card because Americans did not know what to expect with him while already having a pretty good idea of what to expect with Hilary. I also don't think USA is close to a sudden war, and it would be stupid of another country to even act on his vain empty impulse twitter posts simply because they know the election is close which means someone else very well could be the new President. If you are sure that Trump won't be re-elected again why bother talking about him so much? People have already seen what he has done and how he does things. It just seems to be more productive to discuss other potential people to replace him. I brought Hillary up because it has been stated many times on local media that she has been thinking about running again or that so and so is pushing for her to run again. And then we have people who keep requesting that she run again. This is a REALLY bad Idea for the democratic party. That is why I mentioned her. I also think Biden is a poor route for the Democratic party to go with right now too. Biden shouldn't be considered until he fixes his behavior when he is on live national TV and stop kissing and grouping women and children in the back ground (and he doesn't always know these people personally). A change in behavior after an apology (which he has apologized) is good.
But yes I do think it is only a 50/50 chance of Trump being re-elected. why? because when Hillary was running the polls and media all over the place stated that she was a sure win. If the American media was more reliable and not so flip floppy and the polls as well then I would think differently on Trump's chances.
But again, who would you like or have in mind best for the job? And why? like what about them makes them stand out more than others to you?
Do you have a list of other potential people you would like to see in office or wouldn't mind being in office?
These last Questions are open to everyone. And are far more interesting when it comes to the 2020 election.

 

[Contrainer]

Tldr 2016 Bernie bros didn't vote trump

 

[PocketMonster]

Unsure of who to vote for? Take this quiz to see which candidates align more with your beliefs. Here's my results in case anyone's interested.

Thank you for this. I will check it out

 

[zoroarctic]

Spann backs up Bham on Dorian

The state's preeminent meteorologist said the National Weather Service's Birmingham office was "thrown under the bus" by the NOAA, which sided with the president's claim that the hurricane threatened Alabama.

www.al.com

Oh, my god. There are no words for this. I wonder whose job he threatened.

Edit: actually, there are words. This is dangerous. People make life-or-death decisions based on this kind of information.

 

[Volphied]

However I don't believe they hijacked the election.

Russian interference was conclusively proven by US security agencies, so by not believing it you've chosen to deny reality.

Americans did not know what to expect with him while already having a pretty good idea of what to expect with Hilary.

I, and millions of other, knew we could expect insanity and irrational behavior from Trump. We also knew it was bullshit GOP fearmongering to claim that Hillary would start WW3 (also, may I ask you why you consistently continue to misspell Hillary's name? Is English your native language?)

I also don't think USA is close to a sudden war,

Because if Trump surrounds himself with chickenhawks then we should not feel concerned? Seriously? Trump scuttled the nuclear deal with Iran and allowed Bolton to ramp up hostility and parranoia in US-Iran relations. We've never been so close to war with Iran before. Hillary would have preserved this deal.

But yes I do think it is only a 50/50 chance of Trump being re-elected. why? because when Hillary was running the polls and media all over the place stated that she was a sure win.

Nate Silver already disproved the myth that "Hillary was sure to win". His predictions were highly accurate for the 2016 election, which is why I also trust them for the 2020 election. Your "50/50 chance" is completely baseless.

Spann backs up Bham on Dorian

The state's preeminent meteorologist said the National Weather Service's Birmingham office was "thrown under the bus" by the NOAA, which sided with the president's claim that the hurricane threatened Alabama.

www.al.com

Oh, my god. There are no words for this. I wonder whose job he threatened.

Edit: actually, there are words. This is dangerous. People make life-or-death decisions based on this kind of information.

The President of the National Weather Service Employees Organization has weighted in:


View: https://twitter.com/pres_nwseo/status/1170115531388719105

 

[PocketMonster]

who would you like or have in mind best for the job? And why? like what about them makes them stand out more than others to you?
Do you have a list of other potential people you would like to see in office or wouldn't mind being in office?

----
yeah I suppose I will answer... but it is my last direct reply because I did state from here we can agree to disagree.

Russian interference was conclusively proven by US security agencies, so by not believing it you've chosen to deny reality.



I, and millions of other, knew we could expect insanity and irrational behavior from Trump. We also knew it was bullshit GOP fearmongering to claim that Hillary would start WW3 (also, may I ask you why you consistently continue to misspell Hillary's name? Is English your native language?)



Because if Trump surrounds himself with chickenhawks then we should not feel concerned? Seriously? Trump scuttled the nuclear deal with Iran and allowed Bolton to ramp up hostility and parranoia in US-Iran relations. We've never been so close to war with Iran before. Hillary would have preserved this deal.


Nate Silver already disproved the myth that "Hillary was sure to win". His predictions were highly accurate for the 2016 election, which is why I also trust them for the 2020 election. Your "50/50 chance" is completely baseless.



The President of the National Weather Service Employees Organization has weighted in:


View: https://twitter.com/pres_nwseo/status/1170115531388719105

it is opinion. not denial. i have the same views against trump too on things because i feel there is a ton of propaganda in usa media. example i don't think trump is innocent in stuff either. and since there is alot of propaganda, i am going to have opinions that don't make sense to other people sometimes.
yes english is my native language but I have been doing quick answers so misspellings happen just like how there is a lack of commas and uppercase letters ect. however her name is not consistently misspelled if you look.
never did i say we should not feel concerned. where are you getting these kind of conclusions from?? I have said multiple times that yes there are concerns and should be concerned but no i dont think we are on the brink of war with Iran right now. just because i say that doesnt mean that i said we should not be concerned about his impulses.
i don't know if you asked this for clarity or if you honestly did not catch me saying more than once that yes there are concerns and issues with trump. however we are close to a 2020 election and usa should be looking forward on who should take the president seat.
During Bush's time USA and middle east relations were very rocky so I think there was a higher chance of things going worse then than now.
And yes we already established that my "50/50 chance" OPINION is baseless. and I stated why i had such an opinion.
??

 

[Volphied]

but no i dont think we are on the brink of war with Iran right now.
During Bush's time USA and middle east relations were very rocky so I think there was a higher chance of things going worse then than now.

Trump and Iran are sparking fears of a war that would likely be devastating to both sides

A war with Iran would likely be disastrous and further destabilize a region that's been consumed by conflict for years.

www.businessinsider.com

Tensions between the US and Iran have reached historic heights in recent weeks, prompting fears of a military confrontation that could escalate into all-out war.

 

[PocketMonster]

At the beginning of this thread, it looks like there are a few people for Beto. I'd like to hear more on why you like him. Also how do you guys feel about Tulsi?

 

[zoroarctic]

Also how do you guys feel about Tulsi?

Her coziness with far-right dictators makes me uneasy.

 

[Volphied]

View: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1171124892428886017

 

[Dorothy]

Also how do you guys feel about Tulsi?

I feel like she has made homophobic and Islamophobic statements and lobbied for Narendra Modi to receive an American visa while he was still barred from the country because of his role in the 2002 massacres in Gujarat.

 

[zoroarctic]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/12/stop-calling-bernie-sanders-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-liberals/

This was an interesting read.