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Mafia Mafiaholics Anonymous Game Over: Funnier is Dead

Vote: Obligated Suffering

I tried to vote for SSL last night because it was a far better option than sticking with LynchMe. Why they didn't confess before the deadline baffles me personally, but it is what it is. I'm sure that this is the correct move this time, and I have more than just an RVS vote to prove it.

All of my previous logic for lynching Obligated Suffering from D1 still applies, and this list of OS furthers my opinion. Before we get too far though, through process of elimination, the only people that OS views to be scum are SSL and me. SSL was the only player he NAMED as scum, and also me because I didn't have a read on his list, and everybody else was null to town. In my opinion, if you want to include everybody in your list of reads, you should at least have three people that are scum or leaning farthest to scum. If you want me to reconsider my vote, please tell me the three users you think are scum @Sock: Obligated Suffering



In addition, these reads are unbelievably surface-level. Don't get me wrong; gut calls are definitely a real reason to pursue a lynch. However, they tend not to have any depth beyond "I can feel it in my bones". I'm definitely fine with a gut call town reads. However, it doesn't look to hot when most of the reads only touch on basic posts that could be made from either alignment. Ignoring the null reads, only TNaSK and funniers1-5 had solid evidence for the reads. I would have put everybody else as null with the logic you had. I do want to cut you some slack though, because of what I was mentioning with gut calls. Regardless, I feel like you included them anyway to talk good about everybody else's game so that you become liked, ignored by us, and give us the impression that you are helping town. However, I will not be having that. I want YOUR top three scumreads ASAP and pretty please, or else I'll tunnel you more than I tunneled Hamtaro.*


*(i'm not actually going to tunnel only on you, that'd be a dumb move for anybody. i'm just trying to put on my super serious face to show how badly i want your reads. grrr :lapras:. it is crucial for the good of the game that you finally decide who you think is the least trustworthy / most scummy. i won't even be upset if you pick me because of this post.)
Admittedly... it was night 1. I never expect to have very deep roads before the start of day 2, especially in a game as slow moving as this. Plus... I know you dont know who I am, but trust me when I say that the list I posted is more content than most people would expect from me Day 1. Though I imagine you'll be seeing more of me now that the games hitting the fan.
It's also worth noting that I didn't call you scum. I said I was gonna read you later because you have the most posts and I was in a hurry last night. And honestly I still havent.
If you guys are going to question the validity of my list, I'd like to point out two things:
1) My town read of LTE is based exclusively on the scumread of another player. If SSL decides to act in a way as to press my town buttons that read may slide the other way.
2) I didn't mention it in the post, but I also have some issues with my read of funnier's 1-5. That said, I cut some slack due to D1, and I wasn't initially gonna bring it up yet in case the problems were fixed as we got later into the game. However, to make sure they dont specifically fix my problems, I'm not going to mention them until such a time as I've decided that it's gone on long enough and that they've used up my good graces.
As things stand, I cannot acquiesce to your request, dear Ex, simply because I feel like it's too early to call a scumteam. (Also, if I were to do it now, I'd probably OMGUS you before ISOing you and I dont want to do that).
With SSL admitting that they faked the most annoying role in the game for some ungodly reason, I'll need to look into them again. As for my nulls, I feel like Hamtaro could use a second look through. Maybe a few others too. But most of them are null specifically because there isnt a lot to go off of from them, and honestly without knowing who they are that's NAI to me. Well see if that continues into D2.
 
I don't actually have a posting restriction i was just messing around/trying to spark discussion also i've been busy the past couple days or i would have resolved that sooner so sorry about that.
Why didn’t you clear it up earlier? Copying as a joke is fine but why play along with a post restriction for even a moment? Why not say so when you made a non copy post?
I'm inclined to read Hamtaro and Exdark as town at this juncture because of how easily and quickly wagons built on them close to deadline.
So you’re positive they weren’t mafia bussing mafia?
I'd probably be inclined today to vote for someone who was active but uncontributive and who never had a noteable wagon formed on them. I'll read back now to see which players fit that bill.
What defines a noteable wagon? Just about everyone had a wagon on them at some point on D1.
is kind of hard to keep track of players when they are all unfamiliar but the two that stick out to me right now are Mafia Exponent and Obligated Suffering. I feel like they were both posting fairly late into the day but didn't contribute anything of substance. Mafia exponent cast a vote on a counterwagon to the town lynch, and although I'm reading both of those wagons as town wagons, its enough reason for me to choose Obligated Suffering over them.

Vote: Obligated Suffering
So is this vote before or after you looked back for your above quota? It’s in the same post so I’m confused now.
If you want me to reconsider my vote, please tell me the three users you think are scum @Sock: Obligated Suffering
Are you a triple voter? Because this threat is just bad otherwise. I don’t currently think you’re mafia, but you are the last person I would follow since that would almost certainly end in a town loss. And I’m not usually so sure after a Day one but there is a first time for everything.
it is crucial for the good of the game that you finally decide who you think is the least trustworthy / most scummy. i won't even be upset if you pick me because of this post.)
......We’ve had one day phase. How do you expect anyone to have positive reads. Especially when you said you don’t like gut reads.

Vote: SexyScumLord

Im not buying their excuse. It looks more like they planned on hiding behind a post restriction but slipped up.

and last time I saw a faked post restriction as well as only time, the person was mafia, since how would it help town.
 
It's also worth noting that I wasn't posting late into the day, as Ex said. I didn't post at all in the last 24 hours of the day, my last post before my list being Monday afternoon.
 
Jailkeeper isn't Doctor, hopefully we still have a protection role.
Does anyone have any kind of useful results?

*(i'm not actually going to tunnel only on you, that'd be a dumb move for anybody. i'm just trying to put on my super serious face to show how badly i want your reads. grrr :lapras:. it is crucial for the good of the game that you finally decide who you think is the least trustworthy / most scummy. i won't even be upset if you pick me because of this post.)
Lol.
 
We’ve had one day phase. How do you expect anyone to have positive reads. Especially when you said you don’t like gut reads.

Did not say this. My Hamtaro read was generally gut, but we won’t get anywhere as town if we only hop around reads and don’t put any confidence into where we wagon.

In addition, these reads are unbelievably surface-level. Don't get me wrong; gut calls are definitely a real reason to pursue a lynch. However, they tend not to have any depth beyond "I can feel it in my bones". I'm definitely fine with a gut call town reads. However, it doesn't look to hot when most of the reads only touch on basic posts that could be made from either alignment.

My Hamtaro read was only on an RVS vote, where I said they had no reason to say “Don’t lynch me” out of the gate. Reasonably, either town or mafia could have said this. However, this felt more of what scum might say to make us lighten up to them, which is why I pursued them the way I did.

My town read of LTE is based exclusively on the scumread of another player. If SSL decides to act in a way as to press my town buttons that read may slide the other way.

That’s the thing. I feel like you aren’t giving SSL a chance to push your town buttons because you need to have a scumread just to say you have a scumread. (This is a stretch, admittedly, but it is rather likely based on my whole explanation).

I have more on OS than just one vote. They are being far too nice with their reads, and probably won’t say somebody is scum until they make a major blunder. SSL’s breaking a fake posting restriction for kicks and giggles wasn’t even that bad, but OS needs this because they wouldn’t have anybody else to scumread. In the future with more context, this SSL ordeal will be a nonissue. I’m under the impression that OS would only label someone as scum with a definitive scumslip, besides SSL. This is why I have issues with this slot; I feel like their very game is influenced by only wagons.
 
Did not say this. My Hamtaro read was generally gut, but we won’t get anywhere as town if we only hop around reads and don’t put any confidence into where we wagon.



My Hamtaro read was only on an RVS vote, where I said they had no reason to say “Don’t lynch me” out of the gate. Reasonably, either town or mafia could have said this. However, this felt more of what scum might say to make us lighten up to them, which is why I pursued them the way I did.



That’s the thing. I feel like you aren’t giving SSL a chance to push your town buttons because you need to have a scumread just to say you have a scumread. (This is a stretch, admittedly, but it is rather likely based on my whole explanation).

I have more on OS than just one vote. They are being far too nice with their reads, and probably won’t say somebody is scum until they make a major blunder. SSL’s breaking a fake posting restriction for kicks and giggles wasn’t even that bad, but OS needs this because they wouldn’t have anybody else to scumread. In the future with more context, this SSL ordeal will be a nonissue. I’m under the impression that OS would only label someone as scum with a definitive scumslip, besides SSL. This is why I have issues with this slot; I feel like their very game is influenced by only wagons.
I can't say anything on half the players because most of them aren't doing much in this game. Probably because they forgot to log out of their regular accounts and check their alts.
I flat-out said that it was possible for SSL to press those buttons. I opened it up to the table and introduced the idea. That said, they still haven't done anything that even moves their arm in that direction, so I'm not going to change up my read as things stand.
I didn't look at my reads and determine that "I need a scumread to please the town". I looked at people and was like "Okay these people are probably town" and stuck with my reads. And honestly acting like I needed to have at least one read to appease the town would be no worse than needing to have three reads to appease you. I will have more scumreads when I have determined that people have used up my good graces or seem to be faltering in their towniness. But I won't force reads where I don't have them.
 
and last time I saw a faked post restriction as well as only time, the person was mafia, since how would it help town.

The utility it has as a town play is generating meaningful discourse. In effect, its an ice breaker. Players form opinions based on the posting restriction, other players attack them for those opinions, players attack the players attacking players for the way they're attacking players, and the mafia game gets rolling.

Why didn’t you clear it up earlier? Copying as a joke is fine but why play along with a post restriction for even a moment? Why not say so when you made a non copy post?

Admittedly this was a mistake. I may as well have clarified that I was lying earlier when i decided to drop the charade.

So you’re positive they weren’t mafia bussing mafia?

Pretty sure mafia didn't decide to bus mafia on day 1 when the leading wagon was town, yeah.

What defines a noteable wagon? Just about everyone had a wagon on them at some point on D1.

3+ votes probably

I don't feel like reading back but i feel like there were only 3-4 people tops who reached that many votes.

So is this vote before or after you looked back for your above quota? It’s in the same post so I’m confused now.

after
 
And to clarify, I don't really have any great issue with OS' reads. They're pretty lukewarm but thats largely to be expected at this stage in the game. Most players (including myself) haven't even given reads on most players, and mild reads are better than no reads. I also think its fine to have more town reads than there are town players. It just means you're wrong about some of them.

That said, I do think its important that players are attacking each other, and OS feels like they aren't really doing that with their list, which is something I dislike about it. They're technically attacking me but their attack is very weak and non-commital, so it may as well not be there. This more or less echoes what I disliked about their day 1 play, which is that I felt like they weren't meaningfully interacting with other players.
 
@Sock: defnotafunnieralt6, @Sock: Evenstar, @Sock: hamtaro, @Sock: Lurking til Endgame, @Sock: mafiosloth, @Sock: Mafia Exponent
Do you have anything to say about D1's events? Or about last night?

Are you a triple voter?
I don't get it.
Is this even a serious question?

I didn't look at my reads and determine that "I need a scumread to please the town". I looked at people and was like "Okay these people are probably town"
Seems a lot harder to find mafia via PoE during D2 than to make a case on someone who might be scummy.
 
Did not say this. My Hamtaro read was generally gut, but we won’t get anywhere as town if we only hop around reads and don’t put any confidence into where we wagon.
I misread your post, so the part about the guy read is my bad. I still standby it being ridiculous to ask for more definitive reads on D2.
Pretty sure mafia didn't decide to bus mafia on day 1 when the leading wagon was town, yeah.
How do you know the leading wagon was town? What was the leading wagon? Sure looked like Dark for most of the day and last I checked we don’t know his alignment. Unless you’re claiming cop and checked him last night. SerialLiller definitely wasn’t a leading wagon. And LynchMe started as a joke so them actually getting lynched was unexpected. If we go by seriousness, it’s not impossible that mafia attempted to bus for town cred, not expecting LynchMe to be lynched.
don't get it.
Is this even a serious question?
It’s sarcastic since he thinks his vote on OS is a threat and something to fear.
 
How do you know the leading wagon was town? What was the leading wagon? Sure looked like Dark for most of the day and last I checked we don’t know his alignment. Unless you’re claiming cop and checked him last night. SerialLiller definitely wasn’t a leading wagon. And LynchMe started as a joke so them actually getting lynched was unexpected. If we go by seriousness, it’s not impossible that mafia attempted to bus for town cred, not expecting LynchMe to be lynched.

Lynchme was the leading wagon for most of the day and also the player who ended up getting lynched, and we know their alignment. I think the concept that mafia tried to bus themselves on day 1 but got foiled because they couldn't generate a large enough wagon is beyond absurd.
 
All right, I promised some wagonomics
Lynch Me (4) (SSL, Evenstar, Unvote, ExDark)
SSL:
Vote: LynchMe

Your name says it all.
RVS vote they kept on til EoD. They even kept it on after breaking their fake restriction, meaning they could've removed it if they wanted to.

EvenStar:
Vote: Unvote
Unvote
Vote: LynchME
FoS: ExDark
FoS: LurkingTilEndgame
RVS vote they kept on til EoD. Has not posted since this inital vote. Bad as well, but they also weren't really around to remove it.

Unvote:
I don't agree with Hamtaro redeeming themselves. But I also don't think they had anything to redeem for in the first place.

I do agree that OS might be problematic; but so are all the others who aren't voting or are still on joke wagons.

Lurking Until Endgame and SexyScumLord caught my attention since, if I recall correctly, they commented outside the RVS but aren't collaborating with town to pick a lynch. I'm fine with starting a surprise wagon on them to see if they're lurking.

I removed my vote earlier, but I'm actually scumreading LynchMe.
They seemed to be interested in promoting discussion but didn't even move their RVS vote. Not only that, but fake claimed to have a result. Even as a joke, that can cause misunderstanding and mislead, which is pretty scummy and easy to dismiss.

Vote: LynchMe
Interestingly, added their RVS on LynchMe, removed it, and then re-added it later. The fist person to vote LynchMe for an actual reason. The reasoning in general seems solid, but is also pretty easy mislynch bait. That said, they could've made this point earlier. In a previous post, Unvote discussed how the LM wagon was concerning due to being an RVS wagon with over 2 votes on it, hence their previous removal. They then came back later and worked with what they had to form a wagon with actual reasons. They didn't need to remove their earlier vote, and could've actually argued for LM all day and been fine if they wanted a mislynch, so I think that their vote looks pretty decent, or at least better than the previous two. Not a complete townconfirm, but feels good to me.

ExDark (ugh I still need to read your ISO):
Starting a wagon at 6:59 CST is the worst possible thing to do.

Vote: LynchMe



This means nothing imo
Without reading the ExDark ISO... I hate this. I have no idea where this switch came from. Literally five minutes earlier, they were saying that they couldn't support the LynchMe lynch. The next retroactively took townread out of that first post, before leading to this vote right after that. And then they come in and based on one completely understandable post (trying to start a different lynch when they're on the chopping block) and that's apparently the straw that broke the ExDark's back. The progression here feel unnatural to me.
I'll throw a preliminary
Vote: ExDark
On right now. I still need to read their ISO, and that may change things for me, but the progression in those three posts is just insanity. It seems more like they realized they could seal a lynch rather than die on their own.
Now, if they ever admitted to it just being to save their own hide (Ex was tied with LM before their vote) I would understand, but they came up with a complete BS reason and tried to pass it off as realistic progression. This doesn't sit well with me.

Interestingly, both Ex and Unvote were also quick (but too late) to jump off the wagon and onto SSL.
@Sock: Unvote @Sock: ExDark what are your thoughts on SSL as of now? And why were you so quick to jump off the wagon to follow the person you were just voting for?
 
funnier1-5 seems extremely aggressive, while ExDark seems extremely defensive. It's an interesting contrast.

@Sock: Unvote @Sock: ExDark what are your thoughts on SSL as of now? And why were you so quick to jump off the wagon to follow the person you were just voting for?
I believe D2 actions tell a lot more than D1 since we have something to start working with. And SSL is being more cooperative.
Although I can't tell if it's just because they feel like it's because they're in the chopping block.
I'm willing to see if they keep up this pro-town behaviour for the next phases.

The utility it has as a town play is generating meaningful discourse. In effect, its an ice breaker. Players form opinions based on the posting restriction, other players attack them for those opinions, players attack the players attacking players for the way they're attacking players, and the mafia game gets rolling.
I strongly disagree with this, however.
Starting discussion with pointless lies might only waste Town's time that could've been used on something relevant.
 
funnier1-5 seems extremely aggressive, while ExDark seems extremely defensive. It's an interesting contrast.


I believe D2 actions tell a lot more than D1 since we have something to start working with. And SSL is being more cooperative.
Although I can't tell if it's just because they feel like it's because they're in the chopping block.
I'm willing to see if they keep up this pro-town behaviour for the next phases.


I strongly disagree with this, however.
Starting discussion with pointless lies might only waste Town's time that could've been used on something relevant.
You didn't cover the second part of my question
Why were you so quick to follow the person you were voting off of their own wagon and onto someone else's?
 
Why were you so quick to follow the person you were voting off of their own wagon and onto someone else's?
What's there to explain?
Because I was scumreading SexyScumLord more.
I only picked LynchMe first because I was scumreading them and their lynch was viable.
If I just voted SexyScumLord I would've wasted my vote.
 
Sorry kinda forgot about this game. And now eod isn't too far off.

Still not a huge fan of ExDark. Also don't really like that Evenstar kept their vote on Lynch Me, and that was the only post they made all day. That post also had FoS on a couple of people without explanation. Which looks weird to me.

Obligated Suffering's reads list doesn't actually look that bad to me. I don't expect someone to have 3 good scum leans after d1 in a not super active game. It feels natural that they didn't try to force scum reads for the sake of having 3. You can solve the game bit by bit. You don't have to build whole teams by d2. If you're only reading one player as scum then pursue that. Because maybe they actually are scum and getting that flip is a jumping off point to finding others.
 
I completely 180'ed but I don't feel like dying D1. With that it's twilight.
I'm the Doctor by the way and time is up. Town lost their pr.
Vote: SexyScumLord

Why didn't you say so sooner? You knew that a wagon was forming on you with not much time and you didn't claim?

This is all I have to say to OS, to save you all some time with the ISO. I did say I just wanted to live, because I knew I was town and could not say the same for LynchMe. I voted SSL after the claim, because that would have been a better lynch than hitting the jailkeeper. Please ISO me at some point anyway.
 
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