SwSh Pokemon Home

[Shib]

Most of that extra time came from the required minigame in Gen 5. It's one thing to improve the speed of something and charge for it, and quite another to add a roadblock and then charge for the version without it. Removing the minigame didn't require any labor to justify the cost. (And that's pretending that a process that requires you to use your 3DS, smartphone, and Switch is going to be more convenient)

The extra time isn't just the mini game (although it would have been much nicer if there was a function to skip that) it's also that the transfer lab is in the post game, as I mentioned I had to replay another game to transfer stuff from Gen 4 to Bank. I wouldn't expect it to be available from the start but it could have been half way through.

Also the restriction of only moving 6 at a time makes the process much longer. Bank made transferring Pokémon up generations a hell of a lot easier than it previously had been.

With Bank/Home frankly it's a service that some will feel they can justify the price and others won't - I just have to look at the hours I've played the Pokémon games to see that for me the value is definitely there, despite it having not been out anywhere near as long I've played Pokémon Shield longer than Breath of the Wild and while I'd say Breath of the Wild is the better game, I've got more value out of Shield.

The whole thing of posting how much each thing costs for Pokémon is also getting pretty tiring, you can play the game on its own without needing the extras - I'll admit that it's not as content rich as some other Pokémon games but it is a complete game on its own. Also the lists often miss that people pay different amounts -

I paid £25 for my copy of Shield and can currently get the DLC on a key for £21.50. I've bee. Using Bank for a couple of years and still have 2 months left on my sub so Bank isn't an additional cost for me to get stuff across, also even if you want to include NSO as part of the cost (which I can understand as the online max raids have been a big part of the draw to continue playing post game) again I already had and am on a family plan that I split with friends. So for me the cost of the "complete experience" :

Base game: £25
DLC: £21.50
Bank: (pre existing) £0
Home: £15
NSO: (pre existing)

Total: £61.50 - around half what most people keep claiming. I realise that this is only my experience but it highlights the point that both the price you pay and the value you get as subjective so listing prices is largely pointless.

 

[prog rocker]

Now that I think about it, I might also need to get the game used. Not because I don't feel it deserves a lower price (I'll have to check that personally), but because games are expensive here. Or maybe get an used copy in the US since an used copy here would be more or less the normal price elsewhere and because I know someone that can do that favor to me.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

The extra time isn't just the mini game (although it would have been much nicer if there was a function to skip that) it's also that the transfer lab is in the post game, as I mentioned I had to replay another game to transfer stuff from Gen 4 to Bank. I wouldn't expect it to be available from the start but it could have been half way through.

That's still not something that merits an extra 15$. It's entirely up to where they put the event in the game. The problem of adding a roadblock and charging for the version without it still applies.

If Game Freak released a patch for Gen 5 that cost 15$ and put the transfer lab at the start of the game, would really say that was worth it?

Also the restriction of only moving 6 at a time makes the process much longer. Bank made transferring Pokémon up generations a hell of a lot easier than it previously had been.

I'd argue that would be entirely capable with what was being used already, but even if we assume that Bank needed extra labor to make that possible, it still doesn't justify Home's cost. Home requires a third device to be used as a go-between, objectively making the process more complicated- so how can you say that Home's convenience for transferring justifies another 10$?

The whole thing of posting how much each thing costs for Pokémon is also getting pretty tiring, you can play the game on its own without needing the extras - I'll admit that it's not as content rich as some other Pokémon games but it is a complete game on its own.

This is true, but I think some people aren't posting prices to suggest that it's incomplete, but to compare it to past games which did include the same features. It's like combo meals at restaurants- sure, you have the whole burger and it's a complete item, but if the restaurant previously included fries, and now you have to pay extra, it's still frustrating.

also even if you want to include NSO as part of the cost (which I can understand as the online max raids have been a big part of the draw to continue playing post game)

I imagine that's been because people assumed it would be required to access the servers, which thankfully isn't the case.

Total: £61.50 - around half what most people keep claiming. I realise that this is only my experience but it highlights the point that both the price you pay and the value you get as subjective so listing prices is largely pointless.

I mean, even with workarounds like sharing a cost or buying secondhand, it's undeniable that the set price is what a business is saying they want a consumer to pay. I don't think it's totally pointless to say that a business' is setting expectations too high on customers.

 

[Shib]

I'm not arguing about the cost of the tech required, I'm saying for me the price is justifiable for the convenience, its a subjective matter, and for what I need Home doesn't require a third device.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I'll be buying a Home sub and letting my Bank sub end without renewing because for me that's where the value is.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Hm, I think I missed an edit to Esserise's post, or maybe misinterpreted a chart- I was under the impression that transferring from Bank to Home required the mobile device, for some reason, my mistake.

But even after that correction, Home hasn't made any improvements on the transport that already existed. You can even see that it still only does one box at a time. Even if you make the case that Bank's improvement on transportation was worth the cost upgrade, Home has added literally no improvements to that.

 

[Sweet Veil]

In no way can Sword & Shield be reasonably considered “not fully functional” just because you don’t have access to Bank. Come on.

And then, you only need to pay for Home if you want transferring (which relies entirely on having an old game to transfer Pokémon from to begin with, so, shouldn’t you tack on another $40 for a 3DS game to even use premium Home in conjunction with? And the cost of a 3DS? And the cost of a smartphone?) and mass storage (which has never been needed for a core game to be considered “fully functional.” Were Black & White not “fully functional” since they didn’t offer 3000+ storage slots?).

It’s more so because if you want to enjoy the most “complete” versions of the SwSh games you’re paying over $100 at this point. Game Freak and Nintendo, they’re a cooperation. People should be leery and critical of their product, SwSh didn’t have the content to justify $60 as a mainline console game and Game Freak have consistently gone back on their throughout this release cycle. Pokémon is the most massive franchise in the world, it’s not wrong to demand a more high quality and complete product. When I bought BW, BW2, Platinum or Emerald as a kid, that was it. I had a complete game and online play there for me and could do what ever I wanted for about $35 dollars and the games had the content to match. There’s been a lot of criticism and negativity over this release cycle because GF and Nintendo have been treating their consumers like trash.

There are people who never touched DP and instead bought Platinum, the most “complete” Sinnoh game. I never played the first PMD games and went with Sky the most meaty and “finished” version. You weren’t being left out if you skipped the initial versions foreseeing the third for the best deal. (BW2 were really a step in the right direction.) DLC has always been a spotty thing because many people caught on to the model of cutting content then slapping it on later for more money, coupled with SwSh being pretty empty (and potentially rushed) games it’s not hard to see why people are critical. I feel the need to remind y’all Pokemon is a multimillion dollar franchise and gigantic corporation not a human being.

Demanding a $60 game that plays like one isn’t being unfair as is being critical of their practices thus far. Continuously pouring money to get the “complete” experience of already $60 games is nuts. It’s not a case of not having the money but seeing the writing on the wall. I try not to dump on these games but that’s more than triple the cost of Ultra Sun/Moon.

 

[prog rocker]

There are people who never touched DP and instead bought Platinum, the most “complete” Sinnoh game. I never played the first PMD games and went with Sky the most meaty and “finished” version. You weren’t being left out if you skipped the initial versions foreseeing the third for the best deal. (BW2 were really a step in the right direction.) DLC has always been a spotty thing because many people caught on to the model of cutting content then slapping it on later for more money, coupled with SwSh being pretty empty (and potentially rushed) games it’s not hard to see why people are critical.

And let me remind you that most people never bought the "upgraded" versions, nor wait for them. While you said DLC is spotty, you forget to see how scummy it is to release a game and then say "hey guys, there's an update! But you have to buy the same game to experience it." This is the kind of bullshit that Capcom has always done, but because it's Pokémon we have to tolerate it? Heck, we live in an era were we can update games, we don't have to do practices that are stuck in the 90's.

 

[Bittersweet]

And let me remind you that most people never bought the "upgraded" versions, nor wait for them. While you said DLC is spotty, you forget to see how scummy it is to release a game and then say "hey guys, there's an update! But you have to buy the same game to experience it."

This is true... But, the reason I think the shift towards DLC bothers people way more than the third versions/enhanced remakes did, is because with the third versions, you knew what you were getting into. You understood it was an optional upgraded game with minimal changes, and could take it or leave it. It was totally optional, and if the slight improvement to post-game content was worth it, it was there if you wanted to pay for it. It was a scummy way to essentially sell the exact same game again with some upgrades and story changes here and there, but that was no secret. As a consumer, you still felt in control.

Now, not so much. In order to get what would have been a "third version" experience, you must buy Sword/Shield and the expansion pack. Having a choice and choosing to spend more money of your own volition to get both the base game and the "enhanced" experience is miles away from having no other option, even if the vast majority of players are probably saving money overall. It's bothering people now because the illusion of being in control as a consumer is broken, the shoddy business model is more apparent with DLC than it was when the value of the enhancements and postgame was obscured within the pricetag of another game that was its own 'complete' package.

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

For me, the $16 wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the fact that Pokemon are going to be trapped into the service until they are available in a main series game or its dlc.

If a user doesn't do their research before importing, they could up end up paying for a service they dont want to use until they buy a game that their Pokemon is in.

That is the messed up part of Home for me as it takes advantage of people who aren't knowledgable about each game's roster

 

[Dieter]

ok if we're gonna keep going with the 'most complete' experience, we might as well be very thorough. Cause most people here are using dollars, let's stick with that.

• Pokemon Sword $60
• Pokemon Shield $60
• Pokemon Sword Expansion Pass $30
• Pokemon Shield Expansion Pass $30
• Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu! $60
• Pokemon Let's Go Eevee! $60
• Nintendo Switch Online $20
• Pokemon HOME $16
• Pokemon Bank $5
• Pokeball Plus $50

Making for a total of $371 for this 'complete experience'. Except wait! We assumed we'd get the pre-order bonus from 7 Net Shopping, so we'd get our ugly orange tracksuit. But we also want that golden studded boston bag/backpack! So now we gotta pre-order those Amazon Japan versions of SwSh, which are 8500 yen each, which converts to about $78 a piece. Adding that to our total makes for $527 in total, unless I missed something.

Everything else, such as a Switch, 3DS,, smarth phone and internet connection is a giving, cause we assume people just have those, so no I won't include those.

EDIT: arguably, you could add the strategy guidebook as well, the collector's edition of course, which adds $31,50. That makes for a total of $558,50 total

 

[swiftgallade46]

Add the Let’s Go games for an additional 120$ since Gmax Pikachu and Eevee can only be obtained through them.

ok if we're gonna keep going with the 'most complete' experience, we might as well be very thorough. Cause most people here are using dollars, let's stick with that.

• Pokemon Sword $60
• Pokemon Shield $60
• Pokemon Sword Expansion Pass $30
• Pokemon Shield Expansion Pass $30
• Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu! $60
• Pokemon Let's Go Eevee! $60
• Nintendo Switch Online $20
• Pokemon HOME $16
• Pokemon Bank $5
• Pokeball Plus $50

Making for a total of $371 for this 'complete experience'. Except wait! We assumed we'd get the pre-order bonus from 7 Net Shopping, so we'd get our ugly orange tracksuit. But we also want that golden studded boston bag/backpack! So now we gotta pre-order those Amazon Japan versions of SwSh, which are 8500 yen each, which converts to about $78 a piece. Adding that to our total makes for $527 in total, unless I missed something.

Everything else, such as a Switch, 3DS,, smarth phone and internet connection is a giving, cause we assume people just have those, so no I won't include those.

EDIT: arguably, you could add the strategy guidebook as well, the collector's edition of course, which adds $31,50. That makes for a total of $558,50 total

I can’t tell if y’all are joking lol

 

[Dieter]

I can’t tell if y’all are joking lol

I absolutely am. I could have added the steelbook editions as well I guess, but I think those are the same category as the guidebook

I mean, if I had time and was feeling like it, I guess I could do this for other generations for a comparison as well. A quick sloppy calculation for Gen V brings me to $353 (All Gen V games, a copy of HGSS, a second DSi system, Dream Radar)

 

[Shib]

For me, the $16 wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the fact that Pokemon are going to be trapped into the service until they are available in a main series game or its dlc.

Personally I think this is the biggest, fairest criticism of Home. All the price stuff is subjective, but while it seems likely that by the end of next year we'll probably have Switch games that could between them accept every Pokémon there's no garuntee of that.

I don't think it will be an issue for me but I can see that it could. I'm pretty sure I'll be using Home for the lifetime of the Switch at the very least so I think I'm probably safe.

 

[Silktree]

The price stuff isn't subjective. If you want continued storage, which Dexit encourages, you have to pay over three times what you would for Bank. That's clear-cut and most people don't care about the bells or whistles.

 

[Shib]

Except it is subjective because what seems good value to one person won't to another. You can't tell other people what they should think is good value as their circumstances will be different to your own.

 

[Silktree]

Are you saying that the few added premium features justify the $11 increase? I guess that some people would be fine with a $1000 fee, too. It's subjective.

 

[Shib]

The fact that I'm not the only person saying they'll get Home while others are shouting about how much of a rip off shows that it's subjective. I'm not trying to convince you that it's worth you spending your money on, clearly you don't think it's worth the fee.

Of course I'd prefer it to be cheaper, but for what I'm going to get out of it I'll pay the £15 a year. If it was £50 a year, I wouldn't because its not justifiable to me at that price, but someone who earns a lot more than me and have thousands of Shinies they want to store might still think that £50 a year is worth while.

Like I say I'm not having a dig at anyone who thinks it's too expensive, that's fine, you can be annoyed about it all you want, what you can't do is tell me what the value of that service is worth to me personally or to anyone else for that matter.

 

[Esserise]

It’s more so because if you want to enjoy the most “complete” versions of the SwSh games you’re paying over $100 at this point.

Hasn't really been a problem for me, but I also don't think of it as one lump sum. I've easily gotten $60 worth of fun out of Sword, which I haven't felt were as "empty" as all these other people I guess. I'm still playing them. And that $60 was spent last year, which I've recouped since then. This year, I spent $30 to pre-order the DLC because I'm sure I'll get that money's worth of fun from them. And then yeah, I pay for NSO, but that opens up online capabilities for more than just SwoShi, so I don't think of it as something that those games in particular require to be "complete" so much as something that Switch games in general demand. And I don't love that, but personally, it's not quite enough to totally put me off.

I have no need for Home's storage capacity, and I wouldn't be transferring anything until I knew for sure that the Switch games can host every species of Pokémon on-cart. So to me that's only a theoretical payment of $8 a few years down the line. I don't actually need the most super-ultra-mega cash money elite pro-gamer premium "experience" to enjoy these games. (And again, even if I did want to pay $16 a year for Home's storage capacity, having 6000 Pokémon sit around unused in a cloud is something that I don't really see as adding anything in particular to the experience of playing Sword. It's like saying you need Pokémon Box RS or My Pokémon Ranch to get the "complete" experience from Ruby & Sapphire or Diamond & Pearl.)

I absolutely am. I could have added the steelbook editions as well I guess, but I think those are the same category as the guidebook

I mean, if I had time and was feeling like it, I guess I could do this for other generations for a comparison as well. A quick sloppy calculation for Gen V brings me to $353 (All Gen V games, a copy of HGSS, a second DSi system, Dream Radar)

Don't forget that you can only get Dream Radar on the 3DS. I can't believe they'd hold a gun to Lando-T's head to make us pay an extra $250...

You also would have needed a whole computer setup so that you could use the Dream World.

And remember, you won't get any sort of complete experience if you don't have Internet and electricity. Add those recurring costs.

And as for Sword & Shield, what about that Switch Pro Controller? All the cool gamers have one...

 

[prog rocker]

This is true... But, the reason I think the shift towards DLC bothers people way more than the third versions/enhanced remakes did, is because with the third versions, you knew what you were getting into. You understood it was an optional upgraded game with minimal changes, and could take it or leave it. It was totally optional, and if the slight improvement to post-game content was worth it, it was there if you wanted to pay for it. It was a scummy way to essentially sell the exact same game again with some upgrades and story changes here and there, but that was no secret. As a consumer, you still felt in control.

Now, not so much. In order to get what would have been a "third version" experience, you must buy Sword/Shield and the expansion pack. Having a choice and choosing to spend more money of your own volition to get both the base game and the "enhanced" experience is miles away from having no other option, even if the vast majority of players are probably saving money overall. It's bothering people now because the illusion of being in control as a consumer is broken, the shoddy business model is more apparent with DLC than it was when the value of the enhancements and postgame was obscured within the pricetag of another game that was its own 'complete' package.

I still it prefer DLC overall. I have been playing for at least 17 years now, and getting screwed over and over again was getting annoying, specially since both Street Fighter and Castlevania 64 did this to me, too, and also because no third version had enough content to justify it being it's own game. It is way better for me to add the things through DLC so that the ones that bought the old games can update instead of having to buy a separate game, possibly again, just to experience the new features.

 

[Bittersweet]

I still it prefer DLC overall. I have been playing for at least 17 years now, and getting screwed over and over again was getting annoying, specially since both Street Fighter and Castlevania 64 did this to me, too, and also because no third version had enough content to justify it being it's own game. It is way better for me to add the things through DLC so that the ones that bought the old games can update instead of having to buy a separate game, possibly again, just to experience the new features.

I prefer it too, but my point wasn't that the "third versions" were better for consumers, it's that they were better at obscuring the fact you were paying way too much. The "third versions" were attached to a whole other 'complete' game, so where the value is in the pricetag was obscured. It's difficult to view the enhanced features or expanded story as "overpriced" (even though it is) when the only way to buy it is as part of that complete package. Whereas with Sword and Shield's DLC, two post game campaigns are priced at more than half of what the game itself cost. It's far easier to see its overpriced because, for the first time, it is being given its own separate pricetag.