How bad was the Johto team really?

[Cybersai]

We will have to wait and see if they're ever used again. I think the writers would definitely evolve Cynda/Totodile if Ash ever uses them again.

Although I wouldn't bet on seeing them anytime soon.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

I think Ash's Jhoto team sucks. I didn't think so until I saw his team in 'Advanced Battle' and 'Battle Frontier'.

 

[emanuellburnell]

The johto team never suck. they were the boom they did a good job at battling tough pokemon and proving that they did not have to evovle to be great are strong,and that is because they were strong and perfect.

 

[Etebossu]

Buizel has had 4 gym wins so far...he won one battle against Fantina. 2 more and he's there...and there are 3 gyms to go.

Like I said, if you count the battle frontier then corphish has the amount needed.

1.) Beat Machop in 2nd gym.
2.) Beat either 1 or 2 at Flannery...but I'm only going to count 1 since I can't remember.
3.) From the final gym battle.

The other come from Battle Frontier. Like I said..that's only if you count those.

Also, treecko/grovyle had theirs before the league...so about the same time as it took cyndaquil.

1.) Beat Machop in the first Dewford gym battle
2.) Beat Hariyama in rematch
3.) Believe he had a win at Flannery's
4.) Beat Slaking at 5th gym
5.) Had a win during 6th gym
6.) Had a win during 8th gym.

Also, the thing you mentioned about Bayleef and Noctowl, though true, have already been mentioned. Like I said though, it's not about how many wins, it's about attack and how good the battle was. For instance, chimchar used the spinning move to avoid confusion during the battle against Fantina. Then he went on to defeat 2 of her pokemon...one in which neither pikachu or Buizel could defeat...his 2 strongest pokemon at the moment. Cyndaquil never did anything like that. Point is, johto team was GOOD but they were not GREAT like his other teams were...and like his DP team has been. In fact...I'll be so bold to say his DP and Johto team are equal...but by the end of DP his DP team will far surpass his johto team and make them the weakest team yet again.

I actually think that the Johto team is stronger than the DP team right now, but I am sure that the DP team will pass them up after the league.
This is what I think as of right now:

Noctowl>Staravia: Right now I think Noctwol's psychic attacks could defeat Staravia, but after Staravia evolves, maybe not.

Bayleef>Grotle: Grotle is still getting used to its new body, but after it gets more control the battle might be closer

Cyndaquil=Chimchar: Right now I think they are pretty even in strength. If Chimchar evolves it will become stronger though

Totodile<Buizel: Even though I hate Buizel, and it did get embarrasingly easily defeated by Steelix, Totodile, in my mind, was the weakest member of Ash's Johto team, I mean it never even won a single Gym battle.

Donphan>Gliscor: Gliscor is strong, but not quite as strong as Donphan, who is a powerhouse.


So right now I think Johto is a little stronger than Sinnoh, but things may change. We'll see.

 

[Wiimote Plus Wheel]

Idk, I think the Johto team seemed poorly planned, and had little character development. I mean, Cyndaquil's still a spineless little wimp most of the time, Totodile's still got his tap-dancing shoes on, and Bayleef still breaks Ash's ribs every time she sees him. :\

Noctowl's alternate coloration got old fast, and no character of the day ever noticed it, and it just seemed like a blatant stab at getting another Pidgeotto-style Pokémon in the animé after having no Flying Pokémon during the Orange Islands. Heracross was probably one of my favourites in the Johto team, but it got like no airtime so we didn't really see much of it, and Phanpy was pretty cool, but had the same problem...

It just seemed like a bad imitation of the Indigo league team to me. Three starters, one evolved, plus bird plus Pikachu.

Thank God they got it right in Hoenn and mixed up the arrangement a little.

 

[CyrusTG]

All I can say is that is was by far the worst team assembled that Ash had used throughout a region. All of the gym matches had Pikachu in it (not that it's a bad thing), but that just helped to show the weakness of the rest of the team.

 

[Charizards Burn]

All I can say is that is was by far the worst team assembled that Ash had used throughout a region. All of the gym matches had Pikachu in it (not that it's a bad thing), but that just helped to show the weakness of the rest of the team.

Exactly Right.

 

[emanuellburnell]

Wrong pale the johto team is not the worst team to ever be assembled by ash. just because pikachu was use in alot of the johto gyms does not mean the rest of his johto team were his weakest they were his strongest and best and for god sakes one johto starter evovle and the fans make a big damn deal out of nothing like always and there is nothing wrong with that. hoenn was a little better than johto but they did not get anything right in that saga. people need to get a life there was nothing wrong with totodile he was a strong member of ash team he won some good battles and so what if he lost in one damn gym that don't make him weak the same goes for cynadquil they are not weak they are strong and great that's the fans who like to bitch about everything all the damn time.

 

[Gaara of The Funk]

Pikachu - Did a lot of work in Johto, im actually glad they're giving it a break in Sinnoh.

Bayleef - Atleast it starred in a gym. I can't remember Chicorita doing anything except defeating Bugsy's Metapod, not impressive.

Cyndaquil - Was the Buizel of Johto. It had more than enough battles and screentime

Totodile - Didn't really do anything except defeat Sneasle. It got to worse end of the deal out of all the Johto pokemon IMO

Noctowl - Just like Bayleef, atleast it starred in a gym.

Phanphy - Got its redemption in the Hoeen Battle Frontier. Even though it was young I remember it being used against Pryce and against the fire girl in the Johto League

Heracross - Got Oaked way too fast. It had a pretty impressive win against Gary's Magmar though

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Wrong pale the johto team is not the worst team to ever be assembled by ash. just because pikachu was use in alot of the johto gyms does not mean the rest of his johto team were his weakest they were his strongest and best and for god sakes one johto starter evovle and the fans make a big damn deal out of nothing like always and there is nothing wrong with that. hoenn was a little better than johto but they did not get anything right in that saga. people need to get a life there was nothing wrong with totodile he was a strong member of ash team he won some good battles and so what if he lost in one damn gym that don't make him weak the same goes for cynadquil they are not weak they are strong and great that's the fans who like to bitch about everything all the damn time.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. For someone who doesn't like bitching, you're doing an awful lot of it. Johto team is not nearly as strong as Kanto or Sinnoh.

I think, as people said, Johto had to live up to the glorious nostalgia that is Kanto. It could have done that, if each gym wasn't spread out over like 20 episodes. 20 episodes with the same redundant plot. Same in Hoenn and Sinnoh, but these episodes are far less in number ain these seasons.

 

[emanuellburnell]

I think it is stupid for to say the johto team were not strong as the kanto team. because even though you say they was not strong does not mean it was true. they was really a hell of good battlers that won many great battles and prove they were strong and not weak,as for his sinnoh team they are proving to be very strong but they have a long way to go so you can't judgh them yet. i was not doing any bitching you need to get your facts right.

 

[Gaara of The Funk]

Calm down. You're right except for Totodile. Totodile only had a few battles and it lost most of them. Even in the Whirl Cup, Kingler took most of the spot light

 

[Charizards Burn]

Calm down. You're right except for Totodile. Totodile only had a few battles and it lost most of them. Even in the Whirl Cup, Kingler took most of the spot light

But why would they give kingler the spotlight? There In Johto NOT Kanto. Just because his "wonderful" kingler was stronger or was it because Johto is the "forgotten" reigon in the anime anyway..


Happy Holidays!

 

[emanuellburnell]

Yeah but totodile did not lose a lot of those battles infact he won those battles you speak of, he defeated a kingra in the whirl cup, and he also won a battle against sneasel at the johto league,and he beaten a charizard in battle to, so totodile is not weak and he is a strong battler. johto might not been perfect but it is not the forgotten region in anime that's the fans always bringing up stuff that's not even true.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

johto might not been perfect but it is not the forgotten region in anime that's the fans always bringing up stuff that's not even true.

People keep bringing up Johto because A) they want to see a remake of the games or B) they're comparing Johto to the other regions - mostly negatively. Johto has always been rather forgettable, which I think is very sad. As a region, it had - and still has, I believe - a lot of potential. The problem was that Johto as a region wasn't handled very well - and this includes Ash's team in the anime.

Spoiler

And emanuellburnell...honestly, I hate to sound like a mod when I'm not one, but...they're called run-on sentences. Avoid them. And there are other lovely little things like capitalization at the beginnings of sentences - those help a lot. They just make your argument easier to read, and don't make you look like a five year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Aladar]

IMO the problem with the Johto team was that they were so close to the Kanto team formula that if you compare them you won`t like what you see.

Cyndaquil- honestly it was my favourite in the Johto team but in the beginning he didn`t even now how to start with fire attacks without warming up. If you compare it with Charizard- OMG

Bayleef-nothing special but at least she evolved. Compare her to Bulbasaur-despite that he never evolved he`s one of Ash`s best pokemon-he can easily defeat even a Meganium (OK, it was a draw )

Totodile- I think it had lots of potential but sadly he never evolved. If you compare it with Sqirtle- IMO they are so/so but Sqirtle still has a better chance if they fight.

Noctowl- won one battle as far as I remember and it did poorly in the Silver conference. He was just mediocre. Compare it with Pidgeot- another OMG

Heracross- The poor guy had very little screen time. Actualy I didn`t liked him very much but he nice attacks. Compared to Muk, Kingler and Tauros-so/so

Phanphy- Same as Heracross. I liked that the writer gave him a second chance as Donphan. Compared to Muk, Tauros and Kingler- so/so

In conclusion: the weak link in the Johto team were the starters, who were even weaker than the reserves (Phanphy, Heracross) and the bird-type of the region.

 

[emanuellburnell]

The johto region have never been forgettable that's what you are trying to say which it is not true at all.You also said don't make my hand writing look like a five year old throwing a temper tantfrum which i was not doing at all if anything you are the one throwing a temper tantrum like a three year old.The johto saga might not have been the best but ash's johto team were handled very well in that saga.The weakest link is not the johto starters,because they were strong and good at during battles what you say don't make it true.Totodile was good in his battles, cyndaquil took on powerful foe's that were bigger than him and bayleef had a great battle at the johto league and a gym battle aswell.Now here's my conclusion the johto starters were never weak and heracross was never part of ash's team anyways.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

I think it is stupid for to say the johto team were not strong as the kanto team. because even though you say they was not strong does not mean it was true. they was really a hell of good battlers that won many great battles and prove they were strong and not weak,as for his sinnoh team they are proving to be very strong but they have a long way to go so you can't judgh them yet. i was not doing any bitching you need to get your facts right.

Your last post begs to differ but anyways, I'm looking at Johto and I';m noticing that Ash's Pokemon seem to have like no unique characteristics. None at all, not to mention their battles don't seem as...intense as later seasons(for the most part).

 

[Cybersai]

The problem is the nostalgia factor too.

I mean c'mon, remember how popular Ash's Charizard was? Cyndaquil had no hope of reaching that level of popularity, especially without evolving.

Bulbasaur was even on Johto all the way passed the 6th Gym, so even though we had Bayleef it felt like most people didn't care about it since Bulbasaur was still there.

And I did like Squirtle a lot more than Totodile. I'll take the cool shades over the dancing crocodile anyday.

Noctowl was just kind of wasted, what could have been a good pokemon was kept locked away in its ball and had barely any battles.

Heracross and Phanpy/Donphan I liked, but they're like Ash's other reserve Pokemon, they're only used for the big battles mainly.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

IMO the problem with the Johto team was that they were so close to the Kanto team formula that if you compare them you won`t like what you see.

Cyndaquil- honestly it was my favourite in the Johto team but in the beginning he didn`t even now how to start with fire attacks without warming up. If you compare it with Charizard- OMG

Bayleef-nothing special but at least she evolved. Compare her to Bulbasaur-despite that he never evolved he`s one of Ash`s best pokemon-he can easily defeat even a Meganium (OK, it was a draw )

Totodile- I think it had lots of potential but sadly he never evolved. If you compare it with Sqirtle- IMO they are so/so but Sqirtle still has a better chance if they fight.

Noctowl- won one battle as far as I remember and it did poorly in the Silver conference. He was just mediocre. Compare it with Pidgeot- another OMG

Heracross- The poor guy had very little screen time. Actualy I didn`t liked him very much but he nice attacks. Compared to Muk, Kingler and Tauros-so/so

Phanphy- Same as Heracross. I liked that the writer gave him a second chance as Donphan. Compared to Muk, Tauros and Kingler- so/so

In conclusion: the weak link in the Johto team were the starters, who were even weaker than the reserves (Phanphy, Heracross) and the bird-type of the region.

Quoted for truth. Had they branched out or possessed different movesets, it would've been slightly more interesting for them. But considering most of their states, they were like watered down versions of their Kanto counterparts. Heracross and Donphan could certainly rival as powerhouses (and I don't even like Heracross), but that's as far as it goes when comparing this team to his others of the same kind.

Charizard over Cyndaquil is obvious, as you said. Pidgeot (whose highly underrated) over Noctowl is another obvious one. Bulbasaur over Bayleef is another - and on that note, to support what you were saying, let's remember that he tied with Meganium AFTER fighting and beating down the Magneton that crushed Cyndaquil and Pikachu (weakened). And I think even the Squirtle over Totodile is a clear one too, because even if Squirtle never put itself out there, Totodile did almost nothing.

None of them except Noctowl or Totodile could really be considered mediocre, it's just that the others pale in comparison to those of the same type.