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Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

What are the odds that Snowy just didn't listen to Pikapika and mafia kill got blocked?

Well, a Bulletproof role died... So, we have the usual Doctor, and potentially other Town protection roles like Commuter and Jailer, but I feel the latter two are a bit more unlikely because we had a Bulletproof flip. It's still within the realm of possibility though.

That said, what do players think of Pika_Pika for outing that targetting him has a chance of potentially killing the player?

I'm going to put him as a top Town read for that because Mafia does not out roles that could potentially kill Town if they are targetted, especially so early. Considering the game's status as a bastard game, a PGO being in the game is much more likely.

Just been looking back over Jinjo's posts which I have to agree they are mostly just defensive or non relevant. In a lot of the posts she keeps taking about people using meta but isn't offering any reads or thoughts herself. She also didn't vote on day 1 which also makes it harder to draw conclusions.

Can see her posts being CWAC.

Vote: Jinjo

What are your current reads @Jinjo ?

Thoughts on TheCapsFan and PikaPika now?

Tbh I am not sure if scum tried to make a wagon against me. While I think me voting Ex was blown a bit out of proportion, I can see it could come across as suspicious to others.
If I had to pick the scummiest out of my voters, I would choose DawningWinds, they were inactive throughout D1 but only came and voted me, which looked like a case of sheeping.


Not sure. I warned the cop not to visit me because there was a lot of risk involved.
The possibilities are:
1) snowy checked me and died and mafia kill was blocked for some reason
2) snowy didn't check me and was killed by the mafia
3) a combination of both i.e. snowy checked me and was killed by the mafia

ok

why not vote them?

Here is my ISO on Jinjo:

I remember a lot of people saying that they thought this was a weird entrance. I didn't find it super weird.



Subtle townread of Snowy amidst mechanic discussion, nothing much here.



Defense after a vote, on their actions coming into the day abruptly.



All responding to open questions put in the thread, nothing much on other players.



I think this has already been mentioned before by FA but it is quite ironic that Jinjo defended her entrance on D1 by using her own meta, yet here she literally says "don't trust meta." It almost reads to me that at this point she wants a bit of town cred, so she says something that will appeal to a lot of players to make her look better.

Still nothing really said about other players, or any attempts to gamesolve, really.



Defending herself from a response to a response to a question she asked. nothing of note



So, here's where the argument falls a bit flat in my opinion. Jinjo seems pretty ticked by these accusations but going back and looking at her posts, I don't really see where she made any concrete reads about specific players. She mentions these defenses against FA as giving reads, but in reality they read as general mechanical statements that could be applied to any player in any situation in my opinion.

I'm unsure as to how to take this frustration/anger from Jinjo, though, they typically seem pretty collected.



This is about the only read on a player Jinjo gives all game and it feels OMGUS-y. And, if you're gonna use meta based on mafia!HD, in Champs he never really did any sheeping, that's why it took the town a while to find him, a lot of his votes were strategically placed and they were doing a lot of vote-hunting.

Oh wait, but I thought you were encouraging people not to use meta? But you already used meta, so I'll justify myself in using it here.

TLDR; Rereading her posts makes me feel a lot worse about her. She could really do with actively trying to gamesolve and give her thoughts about players. Enough for a vote, I think. [VOTE]: Jinjo

Jinjo using meta to self-defend herself while saying meta is bad is just... wow...

Fun fact about the championship game: The only vote I sheeped was the first one on my scum partner in Day 4. I might have sheeped another vote, but yeah. One Townie pointed out how I was making only unique cases being the first voter - and I just played dumb to them telling them "but why is that bad?".

@Midorikawa

heeeey guuurl, what'cya dooooin'??
 
I was rereading some stuff and I think I just found something that puts Feenie in my town reads oops :surppika:

I'm not really sure what's up with Jinjo looking too scummy for not contributing much during >D1< since she usually never says much during it afair. As I said before I'm fine with her getting a bit of pressure, but don't end up hammering her without giving her a chance to at least claim, right :surppika:

I'm particularly fine with a sidewagon on DawningWinds to prod more activity from him and check if he's still lurking and I think I'll rest there since I don't want to add more volume to what's at Hammer-2, I think? I find his lack of presence except during the start of the day (after being called out for being inactive) and at the EoD (where he was part of the Zorchic lynch) way more evident scuminess over Jinjo's shallow posts.

Vote: DawningWinds
 
Oh, right there's hammer in this game?

Unvote: Jinjo

That said, what do players think of Pika_Pika for outing that targetting him has a chance of potentially killing the player?

It was especially weird considering he didn't even specify that there would be a chance of death if he was targetted. Even if it was obvious, he should have outright said it, not after someone (the COP) died
 
Well, a Bulletproof role died... So, we have the usual Doctor, and potentially other Town protection roles like Commuter and Jailer, but I feel the latter two are a bit more unlikely because we had a Bulletproof flip. It's still within the realm of possibility though.

That said, what do players think of Pika_Pika for outing that targetting him has a chance of potentially killing the player?

I'm going to put him as a top Town read for that because Mafia does not out roles that could potentially kill Town if they are targetted, especially so early. Considering the game's status as a bastard game, a PGO being in the game is much more likely.

I think it's a ballsy move but I think the townier thing to do would be, like Space said, to just up and out that you have killing potential if targeted. I get why Pikapika would think he would be targeted by the Cop, but if you're gonna go out on a limb already and tell the cop not to target you, you might as well tell them why rather than being vague. I would not put him as a top town, his claim is uncheckable unless we can magically learn that Snowy did indeed target him last night, and he was weird about it.

Plus...I can't shake the suspicion that this post is covering for Pika_pika.

In other news all three of the sisters are starting to look better in the moment to me.
 
The reason on why I scum read you was because you said my posts were mostly defending myself on day 1 which was a small defense and the rest of my post responding to FA were my thoughts I brought out and I didn't defend myself against HD. You said you looked back through my posts and I want you to explain to me how the first paragraph quoting FA was a defense and how were my posts quoting HD were also a defense when I pretty much explained I didn't defend myself against HD on day 1.

Caps ninaja'd me and I didn't get a chance to see his post and HD I had as a town read on day 1.
Said your posts were mostly defensive or not relevant and was referring to all your posts, not just day 1.

I voted for you and asked for reads as a pressure vote, your reaction to immediately suspect me and Luminary for voting for you makes me think your on the defensive and we're onto something.

Now that you know Caps voted for you too, do you also read him as scum?

Thoughts on TheCapsFan and PikaPika now?
Still unsure on Caps but think Jinjo merits more attention at the moment.

Feeling a bit better about Pika, not sure scum would want to draw attention to themselves with that claim.
 
I have to say I am not a fan of DawningWinds at the moment either. It's interesting that they chose your wagon over the leading wagons of the day. It's possible they were trying to push you ahead of Fatima, maybe??? I don't know, we won't really know much about DawningWinds until they show up and make some reads @DawningWinds

I'd also like to hear more from @Pikochu and @Tood as I said yesterday. I know I called out Tood already but I'm unsure if I've called out Pikochu yet. Both have posted a bit more since yesterday, but I've seen them both a lot more active in other games, and I think their contributions could be much needed in helping to solve the game.

@Fatima Shadow Frost Witch I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for your big huge post you keep promising, don't keep me waiting much longer or I'll ask for a refund for my ticket.

get out of my mind!! this is what i've been thinking in my head just now

with a cop dead we don't have to deal with "potential town pr lurking" paranoia as much ;)

I said I would not be focusing on meta since I have seen players get scum read for meta and they flip town. Are you asking here you think my suspicion on you was because of your vote on me? That was not the reason on what I found you suspicious. If you want to know what was the post I thought was suspicious I can quote it.

That's fine if you don't want to focus on meta, but you also said you didn't bring out the scum meta on me because you were worried I would use it against you and lynch you, so which is it? Well, this is the third time you've mentioned it, so I don't know why you judt don't bring it up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

can we get a votecount? I feel like her wagon might be a bit too chonky for 8h into the Day :surppika:

now it's

Jinjo IV - Luminary, HumanDawn, Rainbow Cloud, TheCapsFan
DawningWinds I - ExLight

@Jinjo Could you go over the thread a bit and maybe dig up something that could have been hanging on your mind?

I was rereading some stuff and I think I just found something that puts Feenie in my town reads oops :surppika:

I'm not really sure what's up with Jinjo looking too scummy for not contributing much during >D1< since she usually never says much during it afair. As I said before I'm fine with her getting a bit of pressure, but don't end up hammering her without giving her a chance to at least claim, right :surppika:

I'm particularly fine with a sidewagon on DawningWinds to prod more activity from him and check if he's still lurking and I think I'll rest there since I don't want to add more volume to what's at Hammer-2, I think? I find his lack of presence except during the start of the day (after being called out for being inactive) and at the EoD (where he was part of the Zorchic lynch) way more evident scuminess over Jinjo's shallow posts.

Vote: DawningWinds

i agree with this post 9001% by Feenie you mean Luminary, i don't know about what you mean about that tho because i too thought the wagon was building a bit too fast

Now that I recall, I actually asked DawningWinds this:

That said... @DawningWinds, what propelled you to come today of all days?

I specifically mentioned him in that post, but in his next reply he posts this:

I agree with the points against Pika_pika42, because voting ExLight out of pure paranoia when he has done nothing suspicious makes no sense. Plus backing off when called out and not voting the people he says he's suspicious of.

Vote: Pika_pika42

As for the other two, there's not a lot to go on with Zorchic, but he's left a mostly unexplained vote on Mido since the beginning of the Day, which is a bit weird, and avoided the thread completely when online. He'd be my second choice of the three. The players on his wagon seem somewhat okay. Caps and Luminary I'm mostly null reading, maybe a slight town lean for Caps. HD and FA seem somewhat towny.

As for Fatima, I haven't played with him much but it's been reiterated multiple times that this is just his playstyle. Nothing he's said really makes me suspicious, so at this point, I don't really see a reason to go after him. As for the people on his wagon, none of them have a whole lot to go on, but I'd be most likely to want to look into Tood, who is yet another person who left his joke vote in place without explaining it. I am fairly null on Snowy and Deku.

Look who finally showed up.

Completely ignoring my direct question to him. In light of that, I think it's not outlandish to think of the possibility he saw my mention, chose not to reply and instead posted in the scum chat, then later during the phase proceeded to make his vote on Pika_pika42 but completely forgot to answer me.

Btw, if there are 15 players doesn't it take 8 for maj?

unless you thought that FA voted and that made the votes be at 6
 
It was especially weird considering he didn't even specify that there would be a chance of death if he was targetted. Even if it was obvious, he should have outright said it, not after someone (the COP) died

I think it's a ballsy move but I think the townier thing to do would be, like Space said, to just up and out that you have killing potential if targeted. I get why Pikapika would think he would be targeted by the Cop, but if you're gonna go out on a limb already and tell the cop not to target you, you might as well tell them why rather than being vague. I would not put him as a top town, his claim is uncheckable unless we can magically learn that Snowy did indeed target him last night, and he was weird about it.

Plus...I can't shake the suspicion that this post is covering for Pika_pika.

In other news all three of the sisters are starting to look better in the moment to me.

Hmm, alright. I'm gonna let Pika_Pika42 answer your comments for himself though.

Yeah, I have to agree about the sisters, but then lots of players are starting to look good, and when things start looking too good, then they are more likely to be too good to be true...
 
I have to say I am not a fan of DawningWinds at the moment either. It's interesting that they chose your wagon over the leading wagons of the day. It's possible they were trying to push you ahead of Fatima, maybe??? I don't know, we won't really know much about DawningWinds until they show up and make some reads @DawningWinds
No idea why they chose my wagon but coming only to vote me and saying nothing much else strikes as bit suspicious.

how hard would it have been to say this before and not after Snowy died? Snowy's death could have been just due to a mafia kill but either way, saying this after the fact does not make you look good.
I warned the cop not to check me. I knew the doctor wouldn't protect me as I was looking quite suspicious. As for other town roles, I hoped they would take a hint.
I didn't say anything specific as I was hoping to bait a mafia role but alas I should have probably clarified everything earlier itself.

ok

why not vote them?
Waiting to see if they have anything to say for themselves.
 
Completely ignoring my direct question to him. In light of that, I think it's not outlandish to think of the possibility he saw my mention, chose not to reply and instead posted in the scum chat, then later during the phase proceeded to make his vote on Pika_pika42 but completely forgot to answer me.

Man, I just found another mention DawningWinds ignored here:


In fairness, Luminary didn't really ask him anything... but that accounts for two mentions he completely ignored! If he was paying enough attention to the thread that he would vote Pika_Pika42, why completely ignore two mentions on him?


@Jinjo What do you think of DawningWinds?
 
I warned the cop not to check me. I knew the doctor wouldn't protect me as I was looking quite suspicious. As for other town roles, I hoped they would take a hint.
I didn't say anything specific as I was hoping to bait a mafia role but alas I should have probably clarified everything earlier itself.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would have handled the situation in your shoes with having 3 votes on you and likely to being checked.

I think it's a ballsy move but I think the townier thing to do would be, like Space said, to just up and out that you have killing potential if targeted. I get why Pikapika would think he would be targeted by the Cop, but if you're gonna go out on a limb already and tell the cop not to target you, you might as well tell them why rather than being vague. I would not put him as a top town, his claim is uncheckable unless we can magically learn that Snowy did indeed target him last night, and he was weird about it.

Plus...I can't shake the suspicion that this post is covering for Pika_pika.

Is my logic wrong? He isn't proven to have a role that could kill a player that touches them, but he still outed it, and this game isn't bastard for nothing. I think giving him the benefit of the doubt and going along with it, at least for now, shouldn't be disastrous if he is lying. If he's Mafia telling the truth then he's playing well for brownie points, but that's where he still has to do his part if he's Town for us to not think so.

Waiting to see if they have anything to say for themselves.

What about Jinjo?
 
What about Jinjo?
Tbvh, I can never fully comprehend what Jinjo says. From what I know, they have not made any significant contribution in D1 but I don't even find them to be very suspicious. I don't understand if others actually find them to be the most suspicious right now or if a wagon is quickly forming on them.
 
how hard would it have been to say this before and not after Snowy died? Snowy's death could have been just due to a mafia kill but either way, saying this after the fact does not make you look good.



He could've been doing that to look towny though, knowing Zorchic would flip town.

Vote: Jinjo

Jinjo has been acting overly defensive and seems to be just scumreading Luminary & anyone else who is suspicious of them.

On day 1 you have been asking questions, you voted Pika after Mido made her read on me and on day 2 you sheep everyone on me. You seem to be just going with the flow on what everyone is doing and I want to hear more thoughts from you.

Ngl it doesn't look very good when your two scum leans are the two who have voted you and when there's no other reasoning given aside from that fact. You also keep mentioning that I've said I would "reread" multiple times but I do not have a clue as to what you're referring to?? Can you quote me where I said that, because I don't remember.

Your vote on me looked like you were contradicting yourself and I pretty much explained earlier. On night 1 you said you reread and I wanted to know if you reread everything from day 1 or if you were just rereading some of the posts from day 1. I'll quote the post where you said that at night.

Said your posts were mostly defensive or not relevant and was referring to all your posts, not just day 1.

I voted for you and asked for reads as a pressure vote, your reaction to immediately suspect me and Luminary for voting for you makes me think your on the defensive and we're onto something.

Now that you know Caps voted for you too, do you also read him as scum?


Still unsure on Caps but think Jinjo merits more attention at the moment.

Feeling a bit better about Pika, not sure scum would want to draw attention to themselves with that claim.

Is defending myself bad? Would you rather if I didn't defend myself? I always prefer it when I see a defense so that way it gets me a better read on a player and trying to understand on their thought process and it looked like Luminary was contradicting herself when she voted me when she said she read my posts on day 1. Caps put spoilers and I didn't get a chance to read through properly since I left after I quoted the posts I missed when I got ninja'd and I'll have to read through on what Caps wrote and when I came back I responded to new posts.

@Jinjo What do you think of DawningWinds?

I want to hear more from him and I did see he voted Pika and he said he was also scum reading Tood.

For those who are town reading Luminary can you explain the town read? I didn't like it when it looked like when Luminary contradicted herself on day 2.
 
Something does feel weird about the Jinjo wagon to me as well. Jinjo is definitely a little jumpy here, but I actually think Jinjo might be even more panicked as mafia in this situation, and the kinda OMGUS-y scumreads actually feel like something town!Jinjo might do when they feel like they're being attacked and prepped for a mislynch. That said though
HD is just sheeping and I don't know what he expects from me. There was this one post from him he made on day 1 which looked suspicious but I didn't bring it up because I felt as if HD were scum he would have tried to get me lynched and why the quick unvote he did on me on day 1.
On day 1 you and HD were the only players I town read and other players were null to me on day 1.
Sorry if you posted it before and I missed it, but what was the exact post from D1 that you found suspicious? It seems weird to have Human as one of your D1 townreads but have found a post of his suspicious enough to mention it here from D1.
That said, what do players think of Pika_Pika for outing that targetting him has a chance of potentially killing the player?

I'm going to put him as a top Town read for that because Mafia does not out roles that could potentially kill Town if they are targetted, especially so early. Considering the game's status as a bastard game, a PGO being in the game is much more likely.
I still am not totally sure what character fits the role, but I guess I can see why he didn't want to provide specifics if he hoped mafia might still try to target him and maybe get a kill off on one of them but try to prevent the cop from doing so. Also didn't think about how it would fit this game being bastard, which does make it a little more believable and like less of a simple threat to stop town from investigating him or something.

-----

I can see good reason to pressure DawningWinds, especially with Pika's claim being a bit more legit-sounding at the moment and Dawning having voted him late in the phase. But honestly, his single notable post in the game (the one where he voted) is pretty good IMO, he gave thoughts on more players than some people have and they're all pretty sound.

Tood, however, actually looks worse the longer D1 went on. I thought his early posts were fine as I'd said before, but keeping the vote on Fatima despite bringing up Zorchic could be trying to stay away from the wagon that was most likely to go through and lynch town, and I still town lean on Fatima, so keeping the joke vote to the end is also a little scummy, even if he said he felt "iffy" about Fatima's posts (but only said that post-D1 and not as a reason for the vote during the phase). He seems so focused on Fatima, not mentioning any other scumreads at all even when prompted by TheCapsFan. I also thought Tood had more posts than he actually does; that's not necessarily a bad thing, but when you look at them all together with the search feature, there's not much pushing the game so much as quick clarification on a few things and vague "feels strange" or "iffy" or "a bit odd" comments on players like Zorchic and Fatima.

VOTE: Tood
 
You wanted me to quote the post where you reread and this was the post I meant.

Looking back, I don't really get what any of this means or what it's trying to imply. Is this meta use, or? What was the reasoning behind remarking how HD played in a game hosted by ZinnLav?

You said you looked back and I interpreted it as if you said you were rereading.
 
Is defending myself bad? Would you rather if I didn't defend myself? I always prefer it when I see a defense so that way it gets me a better read on a player and trying to understand on their thought process and it looked like Luminary was contradicting herself when she voted me when she said she read my posts on day 1. Caps put spoilers and I didn't get a chance to read through properly since I left after I quoted the posts I missed when I got ninja'd and I'll have to read through on what Caps wrote and when I came back I responded to new posts.
No defending yourself is fine but you seemed to jump to the people voting for you as your top scum reads pretty quickly. You'd talked about Luminary before this but was I one of your scum reads prior to voting for you as I don't think you'd said anything about me?
 
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