Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[Jinjo]

Sorry if you posted it before and I missed it, but what was the exact post from D1 that you found suspicious? It seems weird to have Human as one of your D1 townreads but have found a post of his suspicious enough to mention it here from D1.

I never mentioned the post from HD I found suspicious and now I will find it and talk about it. Afterwards when HD unvoted me I town read him since I figured if he was scum he would try to get me lynched but now I start to wonder if unvoting doesn't really mean anything. I remember HD unvoted me after you unvoted me and do you think if HD is scum he would also unvote to make himself look less scummy if he HD really is scum? I am now starting to doubt my town read on HD.

 

[Jinjo]

This is the post from HD I saw that looked suspicious.

FA brings up good points about Zorchic and I have nothing much to add myself that would be a big contribution as far as an argument goes, so I'll just

UNVOTE: TheCapsFan.
VOTE: @Zorchic

Over here Luminary votes Zorchic after FA votes him with nothing much to add that would be a big contribution.

I don't have a problem with Luminary sheeping FinalArcadia's vote. It sounds a bit contradictory but it makes sense they did what they did.

HD said he doesn't have a problem with Luminary sheeping FA saying it sounded a bit contradictory. What HD said here it looked like tmi to me and it looked like as if he knows something about Luminary's alignment even though HD said Luminary's vote looked contradictory and this is what I saw that looked suspicious. I let it slide on day 1 but now I want to look more into this.

 

[Midorikawa]

I'm not discounting that possibility, that's probably what happened, but knowing Snowy I can also see him doing something like targeting Pikapika anyway.

What do you think of Jinjo?

——

I can actually see Snowy targeting Pikapika anyway too.

I can too on the premise of pika lying.

Maybe the “...” was to imply he made a mistake?

Or they didn’t expect to die n1

Tbh I am not sure if scum tried to make a wagon against me. While I think me voting Ex was blown a bit out of proportion, I can see it could come across as suspicious to others.
If I had to pick the scummiest out of my voters, I would choose DawningWinds, they were inactive throughout D1 but only came and voted me, which looked like a case of sheeping.


Not sure. I warned the cop not to visit me because there was a lot of risk involved.
The possibilities are:
1) snowy checked me and died and mafia kill was blocked for some reason
2) snowy didn't check me and was killed by the mafia
3) a combination of both i.e. snowy checked me and was killed by the mafia

My reason for quoting this got answered.

@Midorikawa

heeeey guuurl, what'cya dooooin'??

Working.

In other news all three of the sisters are starting to look better in the moment to me.

For those that don’t know, the sisters are FA Space and Luminary.

Feeling a bit better about Pika, not sure scum would want to draw attention to themselves with that claim.

... not like they would want to avoid a cop check or anything when they were on the chopping block.

I warned the cop not to check me. I knew the doctor wouldn't protect me as I was looking quite suspicious. As for other town roles, I hoped they would take a hint.
I didn't say anything specific as I was hoping to bait a mafia role but alas I should have probably clarified everything earlier itself.

BS

On day 1 you have been asking questions, you voted Pika after Mido made her read on me

I didn’t read you bur I can.

You’re contradicting yourself. A lot. And backtracking a lot.

Something does feel weird about the Jinjo wagon to me as well. Jinjo is definitely a little jumpy here, but I actually think Jinjo might be even more panicked as mafia in this situation, and the kinda OMGUS-y scumreads actually feel like something town!Jinjo might do when they feel like they're being attacked and prepped for a mislynch. That said though

Ew meta. Jinjo has experience as mafia so this play feels inexperienced as though it’s a new role. Indep maybe? Which is going to slightly contradict my vote in a moment. Then again there can be more than one.

Would you rather if I didn't defend myself?

I prefer scumhunting.

vote: pika pika on your speaka

If he was town then he would have either A) Kept quiet to hopefully catch mafia and took the risk to try to kill mafia with his ability or B) fully come out because mafia ain’t dumb enough to target him with a claim like that especially when the person is a good mislynch candidate. And that’s staying the obvious actions.

Thus in reality he’s either A) Mafia looking to get heat off of him and was worried about a cop check or B) An indep probably anti town

 

[HumanDawn]

HD said he doesn't have a problem with Luminary sheeping FA saying it sounded a bit contradictory. What HD said here it looked like tmi to me and it looked like as if he knows something about Luminary's alignment even though HD said Luminary's vote looked contradictory and this is what I saw that looked suspicious. I let it slide on day 1 but now I want to look more into this.

What's TMI in this context? (i'm assuming Too Much Information?)

I don't know anything about Luminary's alignment, don't see how that would affect anything I said if I did?

I think the bit contradictory part had to do with her not adding much to case and criticizing somebody earlier, but it makes sense because she admitted to not having much herself to add.

What does this have to do with meta again? Why would you be so afraid of me lynching you because I could be Mafia? You would never be able to lynch Mafia if you were scared of them lynching you if you failed - why be scared now?

 

[Fatima Shadow Frost Witch]

I feel This is weird. I mean, at this point I think you only had a single joke vote on you, so why point out you're important so early on?

Cause I am and should I be next to go then you'll see what I bought to the Townie side


.... Huh?

I haven't been in a game since 2018 so I might say things that seem a little strange/weird and I'm also trying to stick to my usual play style but it doesn't seem to be working out

 

[HumanDawn]

Thus in reality he’s either A) Mafia looking to get heat off of him and was worried about a cop check or B) An indep probably anti town

Or c) Town who is inexperienced with the role and was worried lots of Town roles would target him and they would die.

I wouldn't tell Mafia I was a PGO but I would tell Town PRs to not target me.

If he's Mafia lying we'll know sooner or later. An Independent who is anti-Town makes no sense - why would he tell a Cop to not check them if they were an Independent Gun Owner? Worst case scenario is they would be found out as an Independent, but that's it. This is really jumping the gun... pun not indeed at all.

What do you make of the fact that the game is bastard and that PGO would make sense to be in the game for that?

 

[HumanDawn]

I feel This is weird. I mean, at this point I think you only had a single joke vote on you, so why point out you're important so early on?

Cause I am and should I be next to go then you'll see what I bought to the Townie side


.... Huh?

I haven't been in a game since 2018 so I might say things that seem a little strange/weird and I'm also trying to stick to my usual play style but it doesn't seem to be working out

...

Please somebody tell me that I'm paranoid for thinking that somebody wrote what Fatima should say in-thread and Fatima just copy-pasted everything and removed the "User said:" parts...

 

[TheCapsFan]

Is my logic wrong? He isn't proven to have a role that could kill a player that touches them, but he still outed it, and this game isn't bastard for nothing. I think giving him the benefit of the doubt and going along with it, at least for now, shouldn't be disastrous if he is lying. If he's Mafia telling the truth then he's playing well for brownie points, but that's where he still has to do his part if he's Town for us to not think so.

I see where you are coming from, at this point though I don't think he's done enough to warrant all suspicion to go away.

Still though, these interactions between the both of you aren't helping my paranoia at all.

 

[TheCapsFan]

On day 1 you have been asking questions, you voted Pika after Mido made her read on me and on day 2 you sheep everyone on me. You seem to be just going with the flow on what everyone is doing and I want to hear more thoughts from you.

Space may be going with the flow more than the other two sisters, but at least she's providing solid points

Is defending myself bad? Would you rather if I didn't defend myself? I always prefer it when I see a defense so that way it gets me a better read on a player and trying to understand on their thought process

I don't think defending yourself is bad, persay, but it's a lot better when you have something concrete to defend. I feel like you're trying to defend your actions but the problem is that what you've done isn't much, in my opinion, and so you're not actively trying to change what problems people have with your play thus far. Can you maybe concretize your reads?

 

[TheCapsFan]

*snip*

If it were Day 1 I would push for a policy lynch on this immediately, but seeing as we've already lost 2 townies and a PR I'd rather continue to scumhunt and come back to this later in the day if there are absolutely NO options, it looks like this may have just been a mistake rather than the big deal HD is trying to make it out to be.

 

[Jinjo]

What's TMI in this context? (i'm assuming Too Much Information?)

I don't know anything about Luminary's alignment, don't see how that would affect anything I said if I did?

I think the bit contradictory part had to do with her not adding much to case and criticizing somebody earlier, but it makes sense because she admitted to not having much herself to add.

What does this have to do with meta again? Why would you be so afraid of me lynching you because I could be Mafia? You would never be able to lynch Mafia if you were scared of them lynching you if you failed - why be scared now?

I think you could be mafia since the post looked like tmi. The Snowy kill didn't make sense because he was not getting town read and he also got prodded which makes me wonder if some of the mafia are deep wolfing in this game and what were mafia trying to even do with the Snowy kill?

 

[Jinjo]

I'll make my reads in a bit.

 

[Jinjo]

I'll make my reads in a bit.

This will probably take a while since it takes a long time for me to finish typing and I'm also a bit occupied for the moment.

 

[TheCapsFan]

If he was town then he would have either A) Kept quiet to hopefully catch mafia and took the risk to try to kill mafia with his ability or B) fully come out because mafia ain’t dumb enough to target him with a claim like that especially when the person is a good mislynch candidate. And that’s staying the obvious actions.

Thus in reality he’s either A) Mafia looking to get heat off of him and was worried about a cop check or B) An indep probably anti town

This is my biggest gripe with Pika, honestly, if he was going to come out I don't understand why he wouldn't come out in full.

I think you could be mafia since the post looked like tmi. The Snowy kill didn't make sense because he was not getting town read and he also got prodded which makes me wonder if some of the mafia are deep wolfing in this game and what were mafia trying to even do with the Snowy kill?

This brings up a question that I have been curious about. Who would kill Snowy? It's pretty low-profile, but this is a big game. Might look into this a bit and try and postulate, on the offhand chance that Snowy didn't target Pika.

 

[FinalArcadia]

...?

I don't have a problem with either TheCapsFan or FA's vote btw.

I'm not sure if this is "...?" about why I town lean on Fatima or the "still" part, but I'll answer both. The town lean is because I don't think trying to soft an important/useful role like Fatima did so early is the kind of play that he would do as scum. I just don't see that as very likely honestly from the times we'd played together. Also, he hasn't really answered things in-depth, but Fatima has gotten enough questions that I think scum!Fatima wouldn't even be putting on the pretense of planning to get to them at some point. So admittedly this is a kinda meta-based read, but I'm not getting any alarm bells from Fatima, and the "still" part is that I've been thinking this since about mid-D1, may not have said it in-thread, I can't remember. It is why I haven't mentioned Fatima thus far as one of the people I'd like to vote though.

HD said he doesn't have a problem with Luminary sheeping FA saying it sounded a bit contradictory. What HD said here it looked like tmi to me and it looked like as if he knows something about Luminary's alignment even though HD said Luminary's vote looked contradictory and this is what I saw that looked suspicious. I let it slide on day 1 but now I want to look more into this.

I can sorta maybe see where you'd get that impression, but I personally read that post as him saying that Luminary's vote might seem contradictory, but still made sense with the context of the thread. That post specifically doesn't really worry me, but it never hurts to investigate it if it stands out to you.

If he was town then he would have either A) Kept quiet to hopefully catch mafia and took the risk to try to kill mafia with his ability or B) fully come out because mafia ain’t dumb enough to target him with a claim like that especially when the person is a good mislynch candidate. And that’s staying the obvious actions.

To be fair to Pika if he's town, option A is tough because he had become a prime copcheck target being one of the other big wagons in D1, so the cop checking him and dying would be a very real possibility to have to work around if he's actually PGO or even ascetic (and didn't want to waste a night). I can agree with you about option B in that situation however.

Please somebody tell me that I'm paranoid for thinking that somebody wrote what Fatima should say in-thread and Fatima just copy-pasted everything and removed the "User said:" parts...

I recognize those exact quotes, so I'm pretty sure they're from in-thread and not something being fed to Fatima to post here. Half are his own answers, and the questions... I think those were from ExLight not long after Fatima said the whole "you don't want to kill me I'm important" thing, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.

 

[Midorikawa]

he's Mafia lying we'll know sooner or later. An Independent who is anti-Town makes no sense - why would he tell a Cop to not check them if they were an Independent Gun Owner? Worst case scenario is they would be found out as an Independent, but that's it. This is really jumping the gun... pun not indeed at all.

K was thinking of that but forgot to type it. That’s what happens when I rush.

For town points. Tell cop not to target them for town points.

id be willing to push Deku as well. Dawning just seems like genuinely inactive and Jinjo wagon seems like mislycnch or indep

What do you make of the fact that the game is bastard and that PGO would make sense to be in the game for that?

So would tailor and hidden modifiers and a million other things.

...

Please somebody tell me that I'm paranoid for thinking that somebody wrote what Fatima should say in-thread and Fatima just copy-pasted everything and removed the "User said:" parts...

Paranoid. It’s just messed up quoting. iPads and phones are a pain.

I think you could be mafia since the post looked like tmi. The Snowy kill didn't make sense because he was not getting town read and he also got prodded which makes me wonder if some of the mafia are deep wolfing in this game and what were mafia trying to even do with the Snowy kill?

Why do mafia kills have to be townread people?

 

[Midorikawa]

To be fair to Pika if he's town, option A is tough because he had become a prime copcheck target being one of the other big wagons in D1, so the cop checking him and dying would be a very real possibility to have to work around if he's actually PGO or even ascetic (and didn't want to waste a night). I can agree with you about option B in that situation however.

Thing is it’s like bomb. You either claim it or you don’t, because if you go “targeting me might kill you” then mafia will know they’re dangerous because they know they’re likely not lying. But town doesn’t. So unless it’s positive town is going to die because they openly plan on targeting, it’s better to risk it and stay quiet. If vig targets bomb then no one would blame the bomb (and yes I know this would kill the bomb too normally) because coming out just gives mafia info and allows for them to know who isn’t worth targeting at night.

 

[Tood]

Sorry, a few quick thoughts:

May or may not get a result, may or may not die.

... I feel as though this may have been best said earlier. Like, also why call out the cop and not town in general? There are pther important town roles than just a cop; even if cop is a very important role. I can't see any kind of paranoid gun owner-like ability as mafia though, so that's in your favor, I guess.

Please somebody tell me that I'm paranoid for thinking that somebody wrote what Fatima should say in-thread and Fatima just copy-pasted everything and removed the "User said:" parts...

You're paranoid

Fatima's responding to Snowy from post #293, and probably just messed up the quotes. I don't see why we had to wait so long for that though. Sounded like Fatima was coming up with a massive post or something during the night, so I was kind of excpecting more than just this.

He seems so focused on Fatima, not mentioning any other scumreads at all even when prompted by TheCapsFan. I also thought Tood had more posts than he actually does; that's not necessarily a bad thing, but when you look at them all together with the search feature, there's not much pushing the game so much as quick clarification on a few things and vague "feels strange" or "iffy" or "a bit odd" comments on players like Zorchic and Fatima

... I admit to missing Caps' post while skimming through the forums yesterday, whoops
I'll get right on it asap since I'm free now

Me being vague is also an issue I have with speaking and writing in general, so that's my own fault. I'll try making more confident in making statements further on.

 

[HumanDawn]

I see where you are coming from, at this point though I don't think he's done enough to warrant all suspicion to go away.

Still though, these interactions between the both of you aren't helping my paranoia at all.

You see where my logic is coming from... but you're paranoid for whatever reason?

Ngl, feels a bit fake...

If it were Day 1 I would push for a policy lynch on this immediately, but seeing as we've already lost 2 townies and a PR I'd rather continue to scumhunt and come back to this later in the day if there are absolutely NO options, it looks like this may have just been a mistake rather than the big deal HD is trying to make it out to be.

Why would you policy lynch that? What policy even is there to lynch them for that?

I think you could be mafia since the post looked like tmi. The Snowy kill didn't make sense because he was not getting town read and he also got prodded which makes me wonder if some of the mafia are deep wolfing in this game and what were mafia trying to even do with the Snowy kill?

Yes, and again, how does it look like TMI in this context?

This is my biggest gripe with Pika, honestly, if he was going to come out I don't understand why he wouldn't come out in full.

So you disagree with this statement? :

I didn't say anything specific as I was hoping to bait a mafia role but alas I should have probably clarified everything earlier itself.

I'm not sure if this is "...?" about why I town lean on Fatima or the "still" part, but I'll answer both. The town lean is because I don't think trying to soft an important/useful role like Fatima did so early is the kind of play that he would do as scum. I just don't see that as very likely honestly from the times we'd played together. Also, he hasn't really answered things in-depth, but Fatima has gotten enough questions that I think scum!Fatima wouldn't even be putting on the pretense of planning to get to them at some point. So admittedly this is a kinda meta-based read, but I'm not getting any alarm bells from Fatima, and the "still" part is that I've been thinking this since about mid-D1, may not have said it in-thread, I can't remember. It is why I haven't mentioned Fatima thus far as one of the people I'd like to vote though.

It was for the Town read specifically - Can you go a bit more in detail about the meta itself? Like, why do you think he wouldn't something about his role as scum?

id be willing to push Deku as well. Dawning just seems like genuinely inactive and Jinjo wagon seems like mislycnch or indep

DawningWinds ignored two mentions on him Day 1 - He ignored mine when he made his post to vote Pika_Pika42, which makes me think he saw it beforehand but forgot to answer it later. What gives you the impression he is "genuinely" inactive and not lurking?

Why does Jinjo seem like a mislynch?

So would tailor and hidden modifiers and a million other things.

Sure.

But we don't have any reason to believe them because we haven't seen anyone claim something similar.

 

[HumanDawn]

Thing is it’s like bomb. You either claim it or you don’t, because if you go “targeting me might kill you” then mafia will know they’re dangerous because they know they’re likely not lying. But town doesn’t. So unless it’s positive town is going to die because they openly plan on targeting, it’s better to risk it and stay quiet. If vig targets bomb then no one would blame the bomb (and yes I know this would kill the bomb too normally) because coming out just gives mafia info and allows for them to know who isn’t worth targeting at night.

I feel like this is ignoring the perspective from a paranoid Townie who was close to getting lynched. Taking that into account, Town would be more likely than Mafia to target him and get in danger. If Snowy targetted Pika_Pika42 then it's Snowy's fault as a play than Pika_Pika42's.