Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[TheCapsFan]

Not really, just kind of wanted to get my post out there because I spent a good 2 and a half hours trying to write it and was pretty irritated by the end of it.

This sentiment either reads like an excuse by a mafia or just a really exasperated town who's annoyed because he keeps being scumread.

 

[HumanDawn]

I mean, so does your defense of Pikapika, so.

But how is my defense of Pika_pika42 fake? I don't defend him for no reason. If you're admitting that your paranoia sounds fake, how can you say my defense of Pika_Pika42 sounds fake as well? Wouldn't that mean that your paranoia shouldn't sound fake because you should be Town and thus it should be real?

For the same reasons you were all up in arms about them, it looks kinda like a slip.

Oh, okay, but then why would you say "big deal HD is trying to make it out to be." if it was worthy of a policy lynch if it were Day 1?

Oh come on. I don't disagree with his sentiment about baiting mafia, but I don't understand why that would even be a valid strategy to bait mafia? Like, let's assume he's town. After hearing "Cop please don't check me," why on earth would mafia be baited to him? What role is he in that scenario? One. might be Miller, but mafia isn't going to shoot the miller, that's stupid. Then what else could he be? Bomb or PGO? Mafia wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. Maybe Commuter? Well, possibly, but if he's telling the cop to target him, then he's probably commuting tonight, so unless mafia's got a strongman, that won't be a good shot.

There is literally no reason why Pikapika helps town by keeping the death part of his role to himself. And the fact that he's suddenly jumped to the top of your town list is worrisome at best and detrimental at worst.

Could be purely non-optimal play. It happens a lot when you are new to a role you've never had before, but considering the situation, it makes sense for a Town player in that moment to be paranoid of what would happen if he was targeted with the 3 votes he had on him. Again... if he was Mafia, he could have been more direct that it would actually kill the player targetting him and that way manage to distract all roles from him.

For the record, I also never said I would permanently keep the Town read on Pika_Pika42, and already explained before "Considering the game's status as a bastard game, a PGO being in the game is much more likely.", but it seems like you and Tood make it out to be that I'm Townreading Pika_Pika42 and decide to ignore everything else I've said.

 

[HumanDawn]

For all we know it could have just been buried in his notifications and he didn't see it. I've missed mentions before because I don't double check them once they've been dismissed.

He hasn't been on the site for weeks. He already posted once before my mention, so it would be kind of a stretch to say he didn't see the ones he already had before. Even if he didn't, he would notice the number of notifications being different, and the newest notifications are always the first so mine and Luminary's should be more visible. Okay, you can miss mentions, but then the fact of the matter remains that he voted Pika_Pika42, so he must have read the thread to come to that conclusion, yet he didn't reply to my mention. That's why I think it's more likely he saw it, decided not to answer it, then came back to the thread and voted Pika_Pika42 but forgot to reply to my mention.

He failed to meet the quota D1 with only 2/3 posts, so odds are he's dead or subbed by the end of the phase. We'll know if he's lurking or inactive if he fails to reach the 3 post quota anyway. If he shows up to make just those posts, we'll know he's just hiding, but the fact that he failed to do so D1 indicates inactivity to me.

I see... That's a good point.

Not really, just kind of wanted to get my post out there because I spent a good 2 and a half hours trying to write it and was pretty irritated by the end of it.

Vote: Pika_Pika42

Ignored again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, he wasn't ~sUpEr ClOsE~ to being lynched. Sure he had suspicion thrown on him and was voted on by the end of the day but there was no clear momentum heading into EoD.

He had 3 votes. Zorchic was lynched with 4. So... the focus of Town PRs would still have a good chance to be on Pika_Pika42 rather than Mafia who would think he would have a good chance of being mislynched...?

 

[Tood]

This sentiment either reads like an excuse by a mafia or just a really exasperated town who's annoyed because he keeps being scumread.

Clumsy fingers, old tiny phone, 24 pages of text to sift through and 3 hours of sleep make any game posts longer than a paragrapg feel like torture to me.

I'm not too bothered by the scumreads as much as I should be, honestly.

For the record, I also never said I would permanently keep the Town read on Pika_Pika42, and already explained before "Considering the game's status as a bastard game, a PGO being in the game is much more likely.", but it seems like you and Tood make it out to be that I'm Townreading Pika_Pika42 and decide to ignore everything else I've said.

...The bastard point is true, yeah.

Your posts did strike me as you townreading him because you had previously mentioned him as a top town read, and have been frequently been discussing scenarios in which you'd described him as a townie with an unfamiliar role, so I'd kind of cemented it into my mind somehow.

Bleh

I'm going to sleep this off and try to think this through a bit more

 

[Tood]

Ignored again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seriously though, I ain't lying about being a slow typer

 

[HumanDawn]

...The bastard point is true, yeah.

Your posts did strike me as you townreading him because you had previously mentioned him as a top town read, and have been frequently been discussing scenarios in which you'd described him as a townie with an unfamiliar role, so I'd kind of cemented it into my mind somehow.

Well, yeah, I am Town reading him, it's just that I don't think that's the only thing I've done when I believe I've been doing it for good reason, especially when we know nothing else of other people's roles? Other players have done a lot more content-wise... but with Pika_Pika42 I have something more mechanical that is more solid. If I sound like I keep enforcing it, it's because I disagree and in doing so I support my argument.

I feel like the most justified vote on Pika_Pika42 would be from somebody who has a bastard/ish role themselves that makes them doubt Pika_Pika42's would be in the game too somehow.

 

[HumanDawn]

@Lone_Garurumon

Vote count including non-voters, please

Spoiler

 

[ExLight]

jesus christ so many messages and they're all so big :blobsweat:

Then what else could he be? Bomb or PGO? Mafia wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. Maybe Commuter? Well, possibly, but if he's telling the cop to target him, then he's probably commuting tonight, so unless mafia's got a strongman, that won't be a good shot.

Commuter can't be killed by strongman.

 

[ExLight]

@Pika_pika42, why did you ask only the cop to not target you? Does your role not affect other roles?

 

[ExLight]

@Pika_pika42, why did you ask only the cop to not target you? Does your role not affect other roles?

Nevermind, just saw his message saying he intended to bait mafia.
I kinda agree with Caps' points, I don't see how claiming something like that (which honestly just seemed like miller at first) would remotely attract mafia into using something on him.

If anything it only makes so town gets more annoyed and willing to find a way to figure out his alignment. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been shot by a Vigi or targeted by a secondary investigative role.

 

[Feenie]

Oh damn I woke up to a lot of messages. I'll have to take some time to look through here so don't be surprised if you see other posts from me in the next hour or so.

Over here Luminary votes Zorchic after FA votes him with nothing much to add that would be a big contribution.

Not sure if you intended this or not, but the phrasing of this sentence just looks... petty? Tbh I'm just going to not respond to anything else regarding this because it's becoming a fatigued argument that's going nowhere fast and also I have little energy as it is and I don't want to waste it on a discussion that's futile.

 

[Feenie]

I feel This is weird. I mean, at this point I think you only had a single joke vote on you, so why point out you're important so early on?

Cause I am and should I be next to go then you'll see what I bought to the Townie side


.... Huh?

I haven't been in a game since 2018 so I might say things that seem a little strange/weird and I'm also trying to stick to my usual play style but it doesn't seem to be working out

Why was this quoted in the thread randomly, what was this trying to convey?

id be willing to push Deku as well. Dawning just seems like genuinely inactive and Jinjo wagon seems like mislycnch or indep

Agreed w this. Deku hasn't said much recently that I'm recalling and the posts he has made aren't really conducive for better discussion. Seems a heavy candidate for a lurker.

There is literally no reason why Pikapika helps town by keeping the death part of his role to himself.

There really isn't any reason why Pika should keep the death part of his role to himself and I'm not sure why he's being so vague about all of it. What-with the cop dying literally the night he says "cop don't check me", it's reasonable for everyone to be curious.

Something I'll say about DawningWings is that a) I don't even know if I've played a game with him before so I can't gauge his general activity level, b) he hasn't even said enough to form an opinion on him, c) there are other players who are semi-inactive that can have probably a better case made against them. I'll throw Deku there and say he's a player that could be voted for sorta the same reasons as DawningWings. I don't oppose others voting him bc he's definitely inactive and not really progressing anything w discussion and whatnot, but I do feel like there are others that could have better cases made against them.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Spoiler: Pings

2. @Rainbow Cloud
3. @Midorikawa
4. @FinalArcadia
5. @DekuNut
6. @ExLight
7. @Luminary
8. @DawningWinds
10. @Space
11. @TheCapsFan
12. @Pika_pika42
13. @Jinjo
14. @Pikochu
15. @Tood
16. @HumanDawn
17. @Fatima Shadow Frost Witch
@dawn dusk

1/3 Phase votals
Jinjo (3): Luminary, HumanDawn, Rainbow Cloud
DawningWinds (3): ExLight, TheCapsFan, Space
Tood (1): FinalArcadia
Pika_pika42 (2): Midorikawa, Tood
Not Voting (6): DekuNut, DawningWinds, Pika_pika42, Jinjo, Pikochu, Fatima Shadow Frost Witch

It is currently Day 2. Day 2 will end in 48 hours.
Countdown timer

 

[FinalArcadia]

I'm also kind of paranoid of HD, for mostly gut feelings, I guess. I don't like how Pika is just top town now on his reads because of the claim. Like yeah, okay maybe pgo abilities aren't a mafia thing, but it's entirely possible that Pika's just lying scum trying to get the cop off his back and the mafia just shot the cop last night by pure coincidence. I still don't understand why it's not being questioned as much. I also didn't really like the weird insistence on Space's RNG vote being suspicious D1 either. HD also broke the tie that led to the Zorchic lynch. Even though his reasoning is extremely solid for voting Zorchic, it still doesn't completely dismiss the fact that he sent a townie to death, just that he had a really good excuse to do it.

I'm torn here because I do appreciate that you came in and gave some useful thoughts on players, but then things like the bolded part feel fence-sitting enough to me that it worries me that you're scum trying to leave openings to back out of some of those opinions. Like you call Human's reasoning to vote "extremely solid" and again a "really good excuse," but then also condemn him for Zorchic's death, but even that's done in a pretty light manner. That, and not actually voting in that post where you say you find Human and Pika_pika most suspicious, and doing a vote only after being prompted. I understand where you're coming from in your section about Fatima, though, even if I don't really feel the same.

Still highly suspicious of Pika_pika42, but I'm more comfortable voting someone who did something scummy and whose inactivity hurts town

Wait, what is the specific scummy thing that DawningWinds did that you're referring to here?

He failed to meet the quota D1 with only 2/3 posts, so odds are he's dead or subbed by the end of the phase. We'll know if he's lurking or inactive if he fails to reach the 3 post quota anyway. If he shows up to make just those posts, we'll know he's just hiding, but the fact that he failed to do so D1 indicates inactivity to me.

It's also possible though that even if he was reading the thread and lurking, he could just let himself get subbed out anyway, which wouldn't tell us much.

This sentiment either reads like an excuse by a mafia or just a really exasperated town who's annoyed because he keeps being scumread.

I'm the only vote on Tood though? What is there to be that exasperated about when he's got a single vote in a phase where there are like three other players with more votes than him, and anyone else who's mentioned Tood as someone to look at hasn't really questioned him this phase? And then Tood even says this:

I'm not too bothered by the scumreads as much as I should be, honestly.

Not Voting (6): DekuNut, DawningWinds, Pika_pika42, Jinjo, Pikochu, Fatima Shadow Frost Witch

This group is going to be a pain to figure out when a lot of these players are the ones who come and go in thread or are pretty inactive, so not even having votes from them makes it even tougher. @Jinjo do you find Luminary or RC or Human or any of your scumreads strong enough to vote them? @Pikochu you late-voted DekuNut last phase; do you still find him most suspicious this phase? @Pika_pika42 for someone who is at the heart of a lot of the discussion going on, you're pretty quiet. What do you think of the current wagons, do you have anyone to vote? @DekuNut is Fatima still your top suspect? @Fatima Shadow Frost Witch I don't think you voted last phase either IIRC? Can you give a reads list, because I have no clue what any of your reads/leans are right now. @DawningWinds are you here, any thoughts at all???

 

[Space]

There is literally no reason why Pikapika helps town by keeping the death part of his role to himself. And the fact that he's suddenly jumped to the top of your town list is worrisome at best and detrimental at worst.

Exactly

Wait, what is the specific scummy thing that DawningWinds did that you're referring to here?

Scummy was the wrong word to use, I meant highly suspicious. I was referring to voting on the Zorchic wagon, resulting in Zorchic's lynch

Unvote: DawningWinds

Vote: Pika_pika42

getting more uneasy about Pika_pika actually

 

[HumanDawn]

This group is going to be a pain to figure out when a lot of these players are the ones who come and go in thread or are pretty inactive, so not even having votes from them makes it even tougher. @Jinjo do you find Luminary or RC or Human or any of your scumreads strong enough to vote them? @Pikochu you late-voted DekuNut last phase; do you still find him most suspicious this phase? @Pika_pika42 for someone who is at the heart of a lot of the discussion going on, you're pretty quiet. What do you think of the current wagons, do you have anyone to vote? @DekuNut is Fatima still your top suspect? @Fatima Shadow Frost Witch I don't think you voted last phase either IIRC? Can you give a reads list, because I have no clue what any of your reads/leans are right now. @DawningWinds are you here, any thoughts at all???

Yeah, the game's going to be much harder to sift through with how things are going. Maybe I will feel better if I reread the thread and manage a reads list to collect my thoughts, but I'd like to give more time so others can respond a bit more before getting to that.

Exactly

Scummy was the wrong word to use, I meant highly suspicious. I was referring to voting on the Zorchic wagon, resulting in Zorchic's lynch

Unvote: DawningWinds

Vote: Pika_pika42

getting more uneasy about Pika_pika actually

You say "Exactly" - but then conveniently ignore everything else I've said and you decide to sheep on the wagon, almost as if you want to avoid counterarguments to your case so your vote doesn't come across as bad. If you said "Pika_Pika hasn't been posting much and it's making me paranoid" I would understand, but you say you're getting more uneasy and keep it at that.

Your reason for suspecting DawningWinds doesn't match with what actually happened. DawningWinds did not vote Zorchic and result in his lynch.

UNVOTE: Jinjo
VOTE: Space

Looks like you slipped up with your reads for finding DawningWinds highly suspicious for something that did not happen.

 

[Midorikawa]

Why would you say it seems like indep?

Because any lynch that goes easy is usually town or indep. And having a unique indep role could explain her. Behavior

He hasn't been brutally honest here at all though, just super vague.

I meant how hell imply I his role is strong or not and stuff like that.

Okay, so what do you make of him not answering to my mention then?

I don’t like answering your mentions either. In seriousness he could have forgotten about it by the time he gets to posting. This game is active, so thongs will be missed.

By virtue of being the first claimed bastard element in the game, we have more reason to believe him than not! My role doesn't have bastard elements (YMMV is definitely not applicable) and the other two flipped Town roles are definitely not bastard worthy. As the game goes on and we learn more, then we can be warier, but as it is, we know more about Pika_Pika42 than everyone else.

He claimed for cop not to check him after being a top lynch candidate. And then comes out with further details after we sat there discussing possibilities and afte rcop died. His role is way overly convenient. The full details came out after we discussed the possibiiities.

you are saying it's scummy for not making it obvious, then I will have to strongly disagree - because a Mafia member who would want to lie about killing people who target them to try harder to not get checked. I see more Town motivation in Pika_pika42 in being vague to not give Mafia more information.

No they wouldn’t because they have to be wary of getting counterclaimed. They would want vague to leave options open. Mafia already knows not o target him. They don’t need more than that.

Oof, I don't like this, I feel like I've seen Mido use the "scummy mc scummy" thing when she's mafia :U

I do it as town too. Please don’t use logic like Jinjo a emoji thing.

Tood and I are mindmelding and I don't know how to feel about it

I ship it.

Not really, just kind of wanted to get my post out there because I spent a good 2 and a half hours trying to write it and was pretty irritated by the end of it.

Typing is hard. It takes me forever to post right now because people keep posting.

 

[Space]

You say "Exactly" - but then conveniently ignore everything else I've said and you decide to sheep on the wagon, almost as if you want to avoid counterarguments to your case so your vote doesn't come across as bad. If you said "Pika_Pika hasn't been posting much and it's making me paranoid" I would understand, but you say you're getting more uneasy and keep it at that.

I didn't ignore it, it just hasn't impacted my thoughts

Your reason for suspecting DawningWinds doesn't match with what actually happened. DawningWinds did not vote Zorchic and result in his lynch.

He alone did not result in it, everyone involved in the vote did yes, but I meant the fact that he's done nothing else but vote Zorchic. also it would be hasty to keep voting DawningWinds anyway since as I think Tood said, he'd get subbed if he's really just inactive or w/e

 

[HumanDawn]

He claimed for cop not to check him after being a top lynch candidate. And then comes out with further details after we sat there discussing possibilities and afte rcop died. His role is way overly convenient. The full details came out after we discussed the possibiiities.

You're avoiding acknowledging the game's bastard set-up and the virtue of his bastard claim. Not acknowledging stuff like this can lead to mislynches and is not a pro-Town mindset. He came out with further details because he wasn't going to claim PGO in Night 1! If he was Mafia, it makes more sense to straight up claim that targetting him kills players because it would deter from the Cop checking them even more, but he only said that the Cop doesn't check them. If he is a Mafia PGO then he just lost many potential Town PRs targetting him and him killing them.

I want you to imagine yourself in his shoes if he were Town. Potential cop check from being a top wagon and cop dies. He doesn't want his role to be a complete waste so he doesn't share the full details and lets it up to the Mafia's imagination - who knows, they might rolecop him, as unlikely as it may be.

No they wouldn’t because they have to be wary of getting counterclaimed. They would want vague to leave options open. Mafia already knows not o target him. They don’t need more than that.

But they claimed it fully Day 2 - the day they can be counterclaimed and lynched - not Night 1, the phase they can't be lynched in.

I didn't ignore it, it just hasn't impacted my thoughts

You didn't reply to it, you ignored it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In fairness, I don't always reply to players who show concern about my votes, but I try to not stick a vote and leave it at that, instead I try to explain myself to cover my ground.

He alone did not result in it, everyone involved in the vote did yes, but I meant the fact that he's done nothing else but vote Zorchic. also it would be hasty to keep voting DawningWinds anyway since as I think Tood said, he'd get subbed if he's really just inactive or w/e

But... DawningWinds did not vote Zorchic, so your claim that you found him highly suspicious for something he did not do makes no sense.

 

[Space]

as if you want to avoid counterarguments to your case so your vote doesn't come across as bad.

also 1) it's not "bad"?

2) If you want me to counterargue then go ahead and give me an argument specifically, bc I feel like others have already counterargued what I would say anyway