Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[Space]

By saying just a Cop check, it might be possible that it's a Miller role.

What does that have to do with baiting mafia though?

The role isn't confirmed but the bastard claim is still there.

Yet there's no reason to trust him.

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

Which post were you thinking in particular regarding TheCapsFan being sure it was Pika’s role that caused Snowy’s death? The one he voted him first with? That was a nonsensical vote, incredibly jumpy, which he accused Zorchic of being scum for too.

It was these two posts, first of which he was replying to Pika and the second one to you.

It was also how he seemed to think the mafia kill may have been been blocked that interested me, my role can't block a kill but it can randomise the target.

Will put more effort after i get off work but for now, I have to act on this:



This feels to me like an obvious cover-up of a kill.

[VOTE]: Pika_pika42

...Yeah, that would require the mafia to have known Snowy was the cop, wouldn't it.

[UNVOTE]: Pika_pika42

What are the odds that Snowy just didn't listen to Pikapika and mafia kill got blocked?

I noted that TheCapsFan has been online at least twice after I quoted him. Obviously it doesn’t necessarily mean anything but it’s something to keep in mind.

And thus we have our second bastard claim... feels like more of a scum role, but with how you outed it like that I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for now. I don’t blame your choice. I would like more info from TheCapsFan but knowing that would result in claiming from him, I wouldn’t blame him for not wanting to share. If he shares anything it would be that his role was activated against his will and randomized.

Who do you think his role would fit which character, @FinalArcadia?

Something else to add, I kept this back hoping scum might target me but there's just as much chance it could hurt town, my role also works passively albeit a night later so if anyone targeted me during night 1 their roles will activate randomly during night 2.

 

[Jinjo]

Oh damn I woke up to a lot of messages. I'll have to take some time to look through here so don't be surprised if you see other posts from me in the next hour or so.

Not sure if you intended this or not, but the phrasing of this sentence just looks... petty? Tbh I'm just going to not respond to anything else regarding this because it's becoming a fatigued argument that's going nowhere fast and also I have little energy as it is and I don't want to waste it on a discussion that's futile.

What? Have you never seen mafia do this before? Let's say for example a player did something scummy or said something you disagree with and then another player will say something like, "I don't see anything wrong with it." This reads like as if a scum player knows the player's alignment and mafia will try to manipulate a town player's read.

This group is going to be a pain to figure out when a lot of these players are the ones who come and go in thread or are pretty inactive, so not even having votes from them makes it even tougher. @Jinjo do you find Luminary or RC or Human or any of your scumreads strong enough to vote them? @Pikochu you late-voted DekuNut last phase; do you still find him most suspicious this phase? @Pika_pika42 for someone who is at the heart of a lot of the discussion going on, you're pretty quiet. What do you think of the current wagons, do you have anyone to vote? @DekuNut is Fatima still your top suspect? @Fatima Shadow Frost Witch I don't think you voted last phase either IIRC? Can you give a reads list, because I have no clue what any of your reads/leans are right now. @DawningWinds are you here, any thoughts at all???

I made my reads list and I can just vote any of my scum reads to null reads. I have Tood as one of my scum reads and since there is already a vote on him I can join in on this. I still have Luminary as a scum read but there is no vote on her and my vote won't go anywhere. HD I keep flip flopping my read on him since some of his posts I liked and other of his posts I didn't like. RC claimed and I still don't know what to think of the claim and it looks pretty bold for mafia to come out with a claim like that.

Vote: Tood

 

[FinalArcadia]

I did question Caps about why he didn't seem to be counting the possibility the mafia could have just chose Snowy for the kill and gotten lucky prior to looking at Jinjo. I wasn't keen on how he seemed pretty sold on the idea Snowy must have visited Pika and died that way.

I do think if you think I'm scum though the I think you should be voting for me, same for Jinjo.

I will take a risk and claim though as I do not believe my role to be that useful to town and could have negative consequences. My role causes other players roles to activate randomly without their control, I targeted Caps with it last night.

Hmm, I didn't remember that part, both your question and that original comment from Caps about Snowy, my bad. That's a valid issue since even leaning on Pika's claim being legit, I personally don't think it caused Snowy's death since that just raises the question of if mafia also targeted Snowy, if they didn't put in a kill (unlikely this early), or hit a doctor protect. Some of you guys are making me start to doubt Caps, who was one of my town reads.

I didn't suspect you enough for the vote over Tood, who I feel like is both wishy-washy in a lot of his reads and putting on a bit of a show with his posts, with all the apparent irritation and stuff that feels forced to me with the way he brings it up as if to kinda guilt anyone scumreading him into going easy on him. I just wanted to get my thoughts on you out there as one of the people on my suspect list.

Do you think Pika's semi-negative utility claim could be in this game along with yours, which is kinda negative too?

Who do you think his role would fit which character, @FinalArcadia?

With the way abilities get activated later on, maybe Silver? He's a time traveler with psychokinesis powers, which I could see fitting that kind of ability. He was a notable member of the Secret Freedom Fighters, and thus very likely to be in the game. The claim makes RC look a little better IMO.

 

[Feenie]

I will take a risk and claim though as I do not believe my role to be that useful to town and could have negative consequences. My role causes other players roles to activate randomly without their control, I targeted Caps with it last night.

Huh. That's a weird one. I'm not really sure what the benefit of such a role would be, unless there isn't supposed to be a benefit from it. Do you have to target someone each night, like is it a requirement?

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

Do you think Pika's semi-negative utility claim could be in this game along with yours, which is kinda negative too?

Not sure but my role was the reason why I was open to the possibility of Pika's negative role, would say mine is probably less dangerous as it doesn't kill those who visit me and I don't have to use it actively each night. Both of them seem not very helpful though, if Pika's role also exists, think some better roles must exist to offset these.

Huh. That's a weird one. I'm not really sure what the benefit of such a role would be, unless there isn't supposed to be a benefit from it. Do you have to target someone each night, like is it a requirement?

Only benefit is the chance it could harm scum by randomising their actions but it's too chance based with who I target and who targets me, it could equally do just as much damage to town. I don't have to actively target someone each night but I can't control the passive aspect of it affecting those who visit me.

When used actively it affects the target the same night it was used so Caps would have been under it's effects during Night 1.

 

[Tood]

Ehh I don't see how I've ever been good at reads lists, I question myself way too much for my own good. Clearly it bites me in the ass.

HD has a good point about the bastardiness of Pika's role, so I'll retract the vote for now. That also makes me kind of feel better about HD too, I guess.

Unvote

RC's ability is also fitting for a bastard game, and given the size of the game, I don't see why it couldn't exist alongside Pika's. I don't particularly think of it as either town or mafia aligned either.

Anyway, I have nothing of use to add to this discussion, so I'm just going to throw out that I'm a survivor because

 

[Pikochu]

Wow, 8 pages to catch up. Alright, time to sit for an hour and then post my thoughts.

 

[TheCapsFan]

cApS hAs BeEn OnLiNe TwIcE aFtEr He WaS qUoTeD

I spent a lot of time in this thread yesterday evening so I'm taking a break. Part of why I'm grateful for these 72 hour days is the ability to take small breaks without being burned out, especially because I'm in another game rn on Discord + the Werewolf game.

I've read up and will respond to specific quotes and questions this evening (it's date night! so don't wait up for me) but I will say, obvious buddying between HumanDawn and Pikapika is obvious and their actions really just lead me to believe that at least one of them is scum. Take that as you will.

Oh, and I was not affected by whatever RC tried to do to me last night.

Toodles, catch y'all later

 

[Fatima Shadow Frost Witch]

I could give reads but would mean going to each players page individually and copying their name and that could take at least an hour

 

[Midorikawa]

Doesn't remove the fact it's the only bastard claim we know in the set-up of a host confirmed bastard game, and thus Pika_Pika42 earns the benefit of the doubt automatically.

NO HE DOES NOT!!!!

That’s like getting a town check before godfather dies and then never suspecting them for anything scummy because they are up town even though they could be godfather.

But then you would directly tell the Mafia you are a PGO? If you were heavily suspected and you were a PGO, I'm pretty sure you would have warned players to not target you, but would not have said you were a PGO. That just makes no sense, it's like claiming Bomb N1. It's possible the Mafia could think he was a Miller.

Whether mafia thinks miller, aesetic, or PGO they aren’t going to target him night one. That wouldn’t help them. They’ll search for cop and doc instead. The moment he said “cop don’t target me” tells mafia not to target him.

e put more attention on himself by claiming it! Why would Mafia do that? He wasn't guaranteed to be checked anyway!

To get the heat off f him!!!Because people like you actually believe BS convenient claims!!! “Mafia wouldn’t do that” guess what yes they would if it would get them cleared for a while because it doesn’t just get cop off of them, it gets tracker and other investigative roles. An there is still the possibility of an indep.

Each of your vote be it on me, Jinjo or DawningWinds seems to be sheepy in nature. Also, I don't find you actively scumhunting or bringing up any new points, seems like you are reiterating what others have said.

And you’ve done what? Let Human defend you an constantly lie? Space has done ten times more than you.

With RCs claim being bastard, not only is Humans “bastard claim in a bastard game so must be true” point moot (not that it ever had leverage) but it also means two negative roles. And yes RCs role is negative. So I am more confident now that Pika is lying and his claim was built off of put in thread convos, and if he isn’t lying then he’s an anti town indep. Because the other possibility is a completely screwed town.

 

[Feenie]

UNVOTE: Jinjo
VOTE: Pika_pika42

Welp this is about to be sheeping but honestly the points made by Midori as well as Space (and probably someone else I'm forgetting lol) are good and arguably better than my case against Jinjo atm.

With RCs claim being bastard, not only is Humans “bastard claim in a bastard game so must be true” point moot (not that it ever had leverage) but it also means two negative roles. And yes RCs role is negative. So I am more confident now that Pika is lying and his claim was built off of put in thread convos, and if he isn’t lying then he’s an anti town indep. Because the other possibility is a completely screwed town.

This quote here pretty much summarizes why I'm switching my vote.

 

[Pika_pika42]

And you’ve done what? Let Human defend you an constantly lie? Space has done ten times more than you.

I don't really like the tone you are using here. Reminder that this is just a game. If you want to lynch me, go ahead, but please don't use this kind of tone towards me.

I never asked HD to defend me, he did that of his own accord. And what makes you think I constantly lie? I agree I didn't reveal my role at the end of D1 and I have explained my reason for it. It might have been a wrong decision but how does that make it a lie?

 

[Midorikawa]

I don't really like the tone you are using here. Reminder that this is just a game. If you want to lynch me, go ahead, but please don't use this kind of tone towards me.

I never asked HD to defend me, he did that of his own accord. And what makes you think I constantly lie? I agree I didn't reveal my role at the end of D1 and I have explained my reason for it. It might have been a wrong decision but how does that make it a lie?

Sorry I was more frustrated with Human and having reiterate myself, that and all this COvid At work so I let that leaked through.

Anyways I should rephrase that. I believe you are lying. I technically can’t prove it. But the point remains is you’re accusing Soace of doing nothing when you have done nothing. It’s the pot calling the kettle black. Though in reality while her contributions may not stick out as much and some of her posts are questionable there is still effort and doing soemthong there.

 

[ExLight]

rereading D1, lesgo

not sure if I have much to add to the Caps-Luminary-FA Zorchic situation apparently
there was some stuff I found weird but feenie who was my scummiest lean kinda became a town read and the other ones are NAI at best

I really don't understand what your problem with Zorchic is? You're saying you don't understand why they feel the need to keep the pressure vote when they seem comfortable with it?

This is a really bad vote... It's OMGUS level bad - Zorchic didn't even vote for TheCapsFan despite what they said. Luminary is the one that actually voted you but you go for somebody else who said something light against you and didn't even vote you for it!

This aged pretty badly considering Human voted Zorchic afterwards.
I'm on page 11 and as it is right now I don't see a scumlean progressing towards Zorchic so far, so as right now it feels like a complete 180º for no reason.
Alright, page 15, he moved to Zorchic after jumping to DW before that, which is kinda off. I don't think I saw them commenting on Pika or Fatima much.
I really hate this, tbh.

Ohhhh. My bad there, I am out of the loop on up-to-date meta for a lot of people.

Why are you apologizing for calling out his lurkiness :surppika:
You should be shaming him instead

I expect more content from @DekuNut, I know you can be more active than this when you're town.

@ExLight we could lynch luminary so we don’t have to deal with the constant avatar changes - but it doesn’t bother me anyway

was this a serious offer though

Got a lot to answer but I'm on my IPad and it takes quoting a lot of messages a bit of a pain

I don't remember any quoted messages in your reply though.

 

[DekuNut]

Sorry folks, I worked over by two hours yesterday adn was just exausted. I have a midterm tomorrow, but I'll try to catch up someitme tonight.

 

[Pikochu]

Alright here are my thoughts:

In re PP42: I did find it weird that PP42 claimed "don't cop check me" and then it implies that Aussie visited PP42 and therefore, PP42 is scum. If that theory were to hold true, then it would have to imply that mafia targeted someone and that target was doc protected. I'm not sure if Aussie and PP42 being connected last night is a thing. It is more likely that PP42 is trying to hide something with the "don't investigate me" post.

In re Jinjo: Her posts read off more frustrated than anything, in particular to HD. As to whether I think it's alignment indicative, that's another story. The fighting between HD and Jinjo seems genuine .

Caps seem to be wanting to take stances but doesn't want to take on the responsibility for taking those stances.

I do like the interactions between HD and Mido. I can for sure bet that there's at least one town in the pair.

As for me wanting to vote for Dekunut, I would happy to vote for him again this phase. I haven't seen much from him and his Day 1 posts are quite concerning to me. In fact, Vote: Dekunut

 

[HumanDawn]

What does that have to do with baiting mafia though?

Because by not painting the full picture N1, there might still be a chance of the Mafia targetting him. It's not a good plan, but I can see the Town thought process and why they decided to not claim pseudo bomb N1. You wouldn't claim PGO or Bomb N1.

Yet there's no reason to trust him.

Based on him claiming a bastard role in a bastard game with no known bastard roles at that point... I'd say yes.

Ehh I don't see how I've ever been good at reads lists, I question myself way too much for my own good. Clearly it bites me in the ass.

Anyway, I have nothing of use to add to this discussion, so I'm just going to throw out that I'm a survivor because

There's usually almost always a role to go with these type of claims Do you have any other roles that might be of use?

cApS hAs BeEn OnLiNe TwIcE aFtEr He WaS qUoTeD

Yes Caps I will always be biased towards you after Superman Mafia.

I've read up and will respond to specific quotes and questions this evening (it's date night! so don't wait up for me) but I will say, obvious buddying between HumanDawn and Pikapika is obvious and their actions really just lead me to believe that at least one of them is scum. Take that as you will.

I'm not Mafia, so how would that make Pikapika Mafia? If Pikapika is Town, how would that make me Mafia?

NO HE DOES NOT!!!!

That’s like getting a town check before godfather dies and then never suspecting them for anything scummy because they are up town even though they could be godfather.

I think they do.

Good thing I never lock-cleared Pika_Pika42 and still questioned them .

Whether mafia thinks miller, aesetic, or PGO they aren’t going to target him night one. That wouldn’t help them. They’ll search for cop and doc instead. The moment he said “cop don’t target me” tells mafia not to target him.

You are right, it's not a good strategy. Doesn't make him scum though.

To get the heat off f him!!!Because people like you actually believe BS convenient claims!!! “Mafia wouldn’t do that” guess what yes they would if it would get them cleared for a while because it doesn’t just get cop off of them, it gets tracker and other investigative roles. An there is still the possibility of an indep.

But if they were Mafia, wouldn't they just claim upfront that if they were targeted, they would kill the person who targets them to ascertain they don't get targeted for longer? It's just not what they did, instead, they only said for the Cop to not check them, not that it would kill them if they did.

Well, Tood claimed Independent just now, so it's looking a bit less likely that's the case if he's telling the truth.

I don't like lynching players using the basis "they could be independent too". Feels like the case on them as Mafia just isn't strong enough in the first place, so if they're not, they must be an Independent so it's safe to lynch them.

With RCs claim being bastard, not only is Humans “bastard claim in a bastard game so must be true” point moot (not that it ever had leverage) but it also means two negative roles. And yes RCs role is negative. So I am more confident now that Pika is lying and his claim was built off of put in thread convos, and if he isn’t lying then he’s an anti town indep. Because the other possibility is a completely screwed town.

Actually - I would argue the opposite. Assuming both are Town - they go very well together, like as if they can be synchronized.

Rainbow Cloud targets Mafia. Mafia's target is randomized. His random target is on Pika_Pika42. Suddenly both of their roles become more useful and have more meaning in the game.

Bastard roles are potentially negative by nature, but there are those that can also be potentially positive. If Mafia targets Pika_Pika42, then it would be a positive role.

 

[HumanDawn]

This aged pretty badly considering Human voted Zorchic afterwards.
I'm on page 11 and as it is right now I don't see a scumlean progressing towards Zorchic so far, so as right now it feels like a complete 180º for no reason.
Alright, page 15, he moved to Zorchic after jumping to DW before that, which is kinda off. I don't think I saw them commenting on Pika or Fatima much.
I really hate this, tbh.

Kind of weird of you to say you don't think I was commenting on Fatima much when in the same post you mention here, I mention Fatima first?

Hmm, I’m not feeling it with Fatima. “Care to take a guess as to which alignment we are with?” is a strange thing to say but I can’t exactly explain why. My mind tells me he is hiding something rare about his alignment, because that would make it more interesting to try to guess right, which would explain why he would would bother asking it, but I could really be looking too much into it and it becomes a situation where my mind sees things that aren’t there.

UNVOTE: DawningWinds
VOTE: Zorchic

Yeah, he hasn’t really come back to answer the wagon on him despite clearly being online... Others at least would say they are busy, but Zorchic has provided zilch after his first 4 posts.

Yeah, I don't think I cared much for the Pika_Pika42 wagon, but then again, not a lot of other players did? I think it was fine to vote Pika. When I voted Zorchic as the 4th vote, Pika still had two votes, and DawningWinds was the third, but at that point, the phase was almost over.

I'm not sure why you would hate it considering the context? I'm pretty sure I said before that Zorchic not posting was really scummy. Like, I pretty much give a reason under the vote, which matches with what I've been saying earlier about my worries on Zorchic after he reacted to a post of mine and then proceeded to... not post at all. I'm really struggling to see how you'd think I just switched for no reason at a 180 degrees, because it completely ignores my thoughts on Zorchic throughout the phase.

was this a serious offer though

No...?

You quoted that part of the post, but in that same post, I said this:

Get out of my ******* mind, these are exactly my thoughts on TheCapsFan. I’m still waiting on Zorchic’s response though.

My thoughts on TheCapsFan were the thoughts Rainbow_Cloud pointed out, and by saying I'm still waiting on Zorchic's response, it shows that I'm considering going after TheCapsFan. Zorchic didn't post despite knowing about the situation going on, and made me worried enough to vote him thinking I had a good chance at lynching scum.

 

[HumanDawn]

Caps seem to be wanting to take stances but doesn't want to take on the responsibility for taking those stances.

As for me wanting to vote for Dekunut, I would happy to vote for him again this phase. I haven't seen much from him and his Day 1 posts are quite concerning to me. In fact, Vote: Dekunut

Could you explain more what you mean about TheCapsFan? Do you have an example/s in mind?

I kind of don't like you voting DekuNut again, but I can't say that I'm against it, and you explained your reads on the other wagons at least.