Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[Rainbow Cloud]

Add Luminary to the list of those I'm having difficulty reading, knew I'd missed someone.

 

[Feenie]

@ExLight not sure if you just hadn't thought about it yet or if this is intentional; are you keeping your vote on ZinnLav (previously DawningWings)?

 

[ExLight]

@ExLight not sure if you just hadn't thought about it yet or if this is intentional; are you keeping your vote on ZinnLav (previously DawningWings)?

I’m rereading D2 and will prolly change it

but DW seemed scummy to me and Zinn subbing it doesn’t change that much, specially since it happened in less than one Phase which seems to point out to it being requested, so I don’t see why not keep it there for now

 

[Feenie]

but DW seemed scummy to me and Zinn subbing it doesn’t change that much, specially since it happened in less than one Phase which seems to point out to it being requested, so I don’t see why not keep it there for now

The reasoning being his inactivity or is there something else putting Dawning (Zinn) at the top of the scum list?

 

[ExLight]

The reasoning being his inactivity or is there something else putting Dawning (Zinn) at the top of the scum list?

It seemed more like lurking than inactivity since DW just jumped on a major wagon at the end of the day, indicating they were somewhat keeping up with the thread. But yea, that was the main reason for them being scumleaned by me.

 

[Feenie]

It seemed more like lurking than inactivity since DW just jumped on a major wagon at the end of the day, indicating they were somewhat keeping up with the thread. But yea, that was the main reason for them being scumleaned by me.

Hmmm something about this seems kind of red-flagish to me but you also said you need to reread through D2 so I'll let it go for now.

 

[ExLight]

Hmmm something about this seems kind of red-flagish to me but you also said you need to reread through D2 so I'll let it go for now.

how so? Didn’t you find his vote on Pika_pika42 weird?

He disappears despite being pinged multiple times, and only appears at the end of the day after being pinged by the host to kinda shove someone’s wagon among the top ones. Not only that but he also provides a small analysis on the other options despite not voicing anything throughout the day.

To me that screams been-keeping-up-with-the-thread or my-scumbud-gave-me-a-summary-on-what-to-say

 

[ExLight]

Damn, what a lame lynch :/.

Yeah, I was the last vote on it, but with Zorchic not fighting back, I don't have as much info I could use to potentially town or scum read the other voters.

hate this

You know how I said in our Mafia chat in Hollywood that Fatima was really Mafia for subbing out almost at the end of that game? I think he might have already done the same under so much pressure again if he was Mafia.

he literally said earlier in this thread they subbed out because I kept saying you and Mido were defending him, which I haven't done in this game
whatever that means

Can see why the wagon formed on Pika, he's backtracking and contradicting himself a lot. He quoted my thoughts on Caps saying he agreed with them but then kept his vote on Ex. Distancing perhaps?
He then backtracks after a bit of pressure deciding Cap's posts now feel much better and removing his vote on Ex.

What do people mean when they say backtracking?
I feel like if they stay there they're scumread, if they move their vote they're scumread. It's a bit awkward

Pika--after another look through of his posts--isn't really setting off any alarm bells for me and I feel like his remark about the cop actually makes him look better. He very well could be something like ascetic. Or something else like that where it would make sense to not want the cop to waste a check on him.

I still don't get the logic behind assuming he was ascetic.

Not a bad vote, she didn't really end up doing much at the end.
VOTE: Jinjo

What's up with you sheeping votes on Jinjo?
The vote you sheeped at D1 was FA's voting Jinjo too.

Vote: Jinjo

Jinjo has been acting overly defensive and seems to be just scumreading Luminary & anyone else who is suspicious of them.

Not really sure what to think of this vote.
I agree Jinjo is OMGUSing people but I'm not sure if that's a reason to sneak a 5th vote maybe.

If you said you reread everything from the beginning of day 1 it would have looked like you slipped.

wdym here, Jinjo? I have them as solid town so I'm curious on what you mean by slipped

That said, what do players think of Pika_Pika for outing that targetting him has a chance of potentially killing the player?

pretty scummy for not outing it earlier, but since the cop might've died because they targeted him that also kinda points out to being true, so?

get out of my mind!! this is what i've been thinking in my head just now

What part of it?

In fairness, Luminary didn't really ask him anything... but that accounts for two mentions he completely ignored! If he was paying enough attention to the thread that he would vote Pika_Pika42, why completely ignore two mentions on him?

this

For those who are town reading Luminary can you explain the town read? I didn't like it when it looked like when Luminary contradicted herself on day 2.

what contradiction we talking about?

...

Please somebody tell me that I'm paranoid for thinking that somebody wrote what Fatima should say in-thread and Fatima just copy-pasted everything and removed the "User said:" parts...

You're paranoid, I just realized they just messed up the quoting

Space may be going with the flow more than the other two sisters, but at least she's providing solid points

can you tell us which points you found solid?

Also, he hasn't really answered things in-depth, but Fatima has gotten enough questions that I think scum!Fatima wouldn't even be putting on the pretense of planning to get to them at some point.

This came after the post "answering" them. What did you think of it and how does your read on them stay the same?

I feel like this is ignoring the perspective from a paranoid Townie who was close to getting lynched. Taking that into account, Town would be more likely than Mafia to target him and get in danger. If Snowy targetted Pika_Pika42 then it's Snowy's fault as a play than Pika_Pika42's.

Why not just out their role and ask to be lynched the Day after, or even push their own Lynch D1 if they're being scumread and more likely to hurt multiple town rather than maybe a single scum

Some thoughts on a few players:

I like this post
Our opinions don't match much but I see where it's coming from and looks pretty towny imo

For the same reasons you were all up in arms about them, it looks kinda like a slip.

the copypaste conspiracy theory? really?
and if you think it's a slip, why would you call it a policy lynch? policy lynches don't care about alignment.

By virtue of being the first claimed bastard element in the game, we have more reason to believe him than not! My role doesn't have bastard elements (YMMV is definitely not applicable) and the other two flipped Town roles are definitely not bastard worthy. As the game goes on and we learn more, then we can be warier, but as it is, we know more about Pika_Pika42 than everyone else.

This argument feels lazy. Just because someone something borderline bastard after the game was said to be bastard I don't think that should clear them.
Or am I missing something and they claimed before the host announced it to be bastard?

 

[ExLight]

*inhale*
page 24

I'll take a break now

 

[ExLight]

He failed to meet the quota D1 with only 2/3 posts, so odds are he's dead or subbed by the end of the phase. We'll know if he's lurking or inactive if he fails to reach the 3 post quota anyway

o
nevermind, I guess him getting subbed out might've not been upon request

Unvote

still scumleaning them while I wait for more Zinn content

Looks like you slipped up with your reads for finding DawningWinds highly suspicious for something that did not happen.

Good call out

Because any lynch that goes easy is usually town or indep. And having a unique indep role could explain her. Behavior

this seems like a stretch

because he wasn't going to claim PGO in Night 1! If he was Mafia

why not? it can't be verified and people would hesitate to lynch him after D1

However, honestly I think Rainbow Cloud is worth looking into at some point. I feel like he's been flying under the radar in this game a lot. Early D1, it took until voting TheCapsFan to really give substantial thoughts on anyone, and he said that Caps was jumping on a small thing with Zorchic (when at that point, frankly there wasn't much to work with) and trying to start a small wagon, when he was the person who actually started the wagon and would have no way of knowing that it would pick up steam. Kept the Caps vote the entire rest of the phase, even when things had clearly gotten to the point that Caps was never going to be the day's lynch target. Gives the "pretty slow on day 1" meta reasoning for why he isn't very active on that phase, but hasn't made any large pushes even now that we're in D2, instead following the Jinjo vote and almost entirely focusing on Jinjo alone this phase, despite having suspected Caps and Pika in D1 and reiterating that suspicion in N1. RC did say

but it doesn't change that RC hasn't pushed or really questioned anyone but Jinjo this phase, not even Caps who they claim to still be unsure of.

I like this, RC has been pretty under the radar and hearing their opinion about a few other members would be nice

I was thinking over my Exlight read - I expected him to post more but I recall him mentioning that he has important exams in the ZD Discord. From what he posted I see his Town self more and everything he has posted feels completely in-character, so even if he has less, he has less for justifiable reason, and it’s good, natural content.

I have a few more exams and I've been studying for them yea
but I'm on a kind of a break week and kinda just busy with three large mafia games and they're kinda overwhelming me :bunnydoom:

I will take a risk and claim though as I do not believe my role to be that useful to town and could have negative consequences. My role causes other players roles to activate randomly without their control, I targeted Caps with it last night.

missed this
basically adds a compulsory+drunk modifier?
I've seen both town and scum with a role like this, so that's NAI
I think FA associated it with Silver, so I'm fine with not focusing on it too much as of right now
an apparently there's a bit of a passive modifier too which seems neato

Oh, and I was not affected by whatever RC tried to do to me last night.

? Are you saying your action hit the proper target then?
@Rainbow Cloud what happens if someone tries to roleblock you? Would your action fail or would they fail and get redirected afterwards?

[were you lying? why did you decide to tell the truth]
Yep.

The thing that made me change my mind was the second part of RC's claim which I did not catch the first time I read through earlier today. It made me trust his alignment as town a lot more.

Nevermind then I guess.
What's the point of lying about it and why is the second part making you town read them "a lot more"?

the fact it's the only bastard claim we know in the set-up of a host confirmed bastard game

I know this post came before the claim but RC's role is pretty bastard tho
Does that change anything?

Even just taking the player list and giving thoughts on them (or literally anyone at this point) without any quotes would be better than nothing. Here's the player list as of D2 you can quote, so now there's nothing in your way:

For a second I thought that was a town-scum list and I was about to question so much stuff lmfao

I'll start with these and do the remaining ones later on

can't wait to see the rest

Why don't y'all think of me as an asset instead of a liability? Instead of wasting a lynch on me, if you just let me be, the mafia won't kill me without risking one of their own, so they would rather lynch me off. If you give me one chance, I'll be more active and help with scumhunting. If you still find me suspicious after that, you can always lynch me later.

what if RC randomizes townies into you though

 

[ExLight]

*inhale*
REREADING IS OVER BOIS

going to make a rainbow list later in the day after I catch up with my other mafia games

 

[FinalArcadia]

Can everyone share their top 2 Town and Scum reads? This will generate more discussion and we will get to know everyone's opinions.

Town would be ExLight and surprisingly Rainbow Cloud now. ExLight I thought was a little shaky at the beginning of D1 with mostly just clarification posts (like quoting what pocketing meant when Luminary asked), but I like that Ex comes in and asks useful questions without too much fluff attached (like asides in the questions that would be filler). Once ExLight got going about mid D1-ish, I haven't really been pinged by them. Rainbow Cloud is in large part due to the claim; I know RC is a Sonic fan and thus could make up a fakeclaim that could feel legit, but that claim has been corroborated by TheCapsFan, and I don't think scum would want to buddy that obviously if they were BOTH scum trying to make an airtight fakeclaim. It also does fit a character pretty well IMO (Silver is my guess there), and RC's response to both my suspicions on him and his recent posts have been solid. His point about Pikochu (as well as Human's comment about his problem with the Deku vote) is a very good one. Human and Jinjo would probably be my next highest townreads.

Scum is Tood (especially with the survivor claim and no other ability attached to it; this has not made my scumread lessened at all, let's put it that way) and kind of a tie of ZinnLav (really for what they've inherited from DawningWinds, which has been addressed enough, but going from actually bothering to make a post for a late vote D1 to then subbing out presumably by request given it's mid-phase with no prior indication of wanting to do that is timing that also makes me nervous) and Pikochu, who I absolutely see the case against from RC and he really does feel disconnected from a lot of the events of the game, to the extent that he's probably the player I've most forgotten was in this game.

Yeah, this is my worry too, because not many people are joining in, or bringing only a few things. I've actually considered Mido as Town and that she could just be her aggressive self.

But aside from when the Pika_pika topic has come up, I really don't think Midorikawa has been that aggressive in this game? Just going off memory, it feels like most of her posts this phase have revolved around this single topic, with just a few things I can remember related to other players (she commented on the Jinjo votes).

I actually think Tood's claim gives me doubt that he is Mafia. Yeah, it's convenient, but with no other Independent claim he has the benefit of the doubt. I still think he should out his role though.

How do you feel about him saying he's simply survivor and nothing else?

Am I the only one here who is having a hard time believing Tood's survivor claim? It looked convenient when he said he's a survivor after I voted him.

I'm with you here, especially with him claiming that survivor is the only thing he is. No other ability being attached to it seems unlikely, especially when we've seen some wild claims so far from Pika and RC, and if Pika is truthful, there have been two potential killing roles already (his and Zorchic). Survivor not having anything to help survive...? Unvoting and then not voting anyone else doesn't help either.

I didn't fully give out how my role works yet as I didn't want to give mafia any more information but now that I am the top lynch wagon, I might as well clarify.
There are 4 possibilities which could happen to someone upon targeting me:
1) Remain alive + action successful
2) Remain alive + action unsuccessful
3) Die + action successful
4) Die + action unsuccessful

So kind of an ascetic+PGO hybrid? The only way to really prove this is an extra death happening (with the suit bearer dead, though there could still be a JOAT or other vig I guess), but I don't know who would target you now. @DekuNut you're also familiar with the Archie Sonic comics; does this claim make you think of any character? My guess before was Omega, but I don't even know if Omega would be in this game when there are plenty of more important characters in the Archie!Sonic canon and he wasn't really one of the Freedom Fighters.

This came after the post "answering" them. What did you think of it and how does your read on them stay the same?

The one that was a few posts above mine that you quoted that was causing some paranoia for some? I think the quote that Fatima posted was meant to answer why he had softclaimed something useful right away, which seems to be what Fatima thought was peoples' issue with his behavior so far. It's not an ideal answer by any means, but I do think he thought it was what people were asking for. The most glaring thing Fatima has done IMO is not vote; that is a problem and becomes increasingly bad the longer the game goes on, but I truly don't see scum!Fatima having said what he did D1 about being important, which is why I don't scumread him right now.

 

[Feenie]

but I truly don't see scum!Fatima having said what he did D1 about being important, which is why I don't scumread him right now.

But why though? It's been a while since he's played a game, he's said that himself.

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

What do people mean when they say backtracking?
I feel like if they stay there they're scumread, if they move their vote they're scumread. It's a bit awkward

Means going back on what they said, I agree that changing your mind can be awkward and whatever you do in some situations will be seen as scummy but the ease and speed of some of his flips seemed off to me.

? Are you saying your action hit the proper target then?
@Rainbow Cloud what happens if someone tries to roleblock you? Would your action fail or would they fail and get redirected afterwards?

Presume the roleblock would work given passively my role wouldn't affect them till the following night, whether being roleblocked would prevent my role from affecting them the following night I don't know?

 

[HumanDawn]

You're proclaiming to be town, right? The way this whole thing here is worded makes it sound like you're independent bargaining w town to keep them around. There's something odd about it.

Feels like a reach.

How are you getting that impression?

Unvote: Jinjo

I wasn't too keen on the OMGUS scum reads upon pressure voting you but think this may have just been frustration and your posts since then have been better, leaning more town on you.


These reads seem kind of vague and barring FA would say they seem more based on the amount of content posted and still no vote on either of your scum reads.

These reads do feel more like Fatima's playstyle though and have more of a gut town read on them.

Regarding Tood's survivor claim, I'm leaning more to believing him being indep but think there may be more to his claim than he's letting on.

Not sure what to think on Pika, feel slightly better knowing how his role works now but I don't see why he'd keep that back as I don't think the mafia would have gone anywhere near him based on what he had already claimed.

In regards to Dawning/Zinn, Dawning may have genuinely been inactive, going to reserve judgement on this slot until I've seen more from Zinn.

Space is still fairly null but am concerned with how she piled on Jinjo earlier, could have been going with the flow to push the lynch through.

Having a lot of difficulty trying to reading HD, Mido, FA, Ex, Caps at the moment, need to go over your posts again, maybe look more at the Pika stuff. Caps has moved to more of a null read.

Deku and Pikochu are worrying me with their lurking and show up every so often promising more only to disappear again, Deku is known to lurk regardless of alignment but this feels off for Piko and his vote on Deku for doing pretty much the same as him doesn't help, reading Deku null to scum and Piko as scum.

Going to:

Vote: Pikochu

Do you have any more reads or thoughts @Pikochu , getting the feeling your trying to go for an easy vote we can't scrutinise much with Deku?

I like Rainbow Cloud's reads here.

Pikochu pretty much only repeated his Night 1 vote and... then nothing. No engagement with anyone. At least DekuNut has his meta, but even that is starting to get on my nerves.

VOTE: Pikochu

 

[Feenie]

Feels like a reach.

How are you getting that impression?

Idk, I can't really explain how I'm getting that impression (and it's probably wrong) but the whole post just felt weird.

 

[HumanDawn]

how so? Didn’t you find his vote on Pika_pika42 weird?

He disappears despite being pinged multiple times, and only appears at the end of the day after being pinged by the host to kinda shove someone’s wagon among the top ones. Not only that but he also provides a small analysis on the other options despite not voicing anything throughout the day.

To me that screams been-keeping-up-with-the-thread or my-scumbud-gave-me-a-summary-on-what-to-say

I can see where you're coming from this, and I wouldn't mind changing my vote to ZinnLav.

hate this

I don't blame you. I got too confident that Zorchic would flip Mafia and I ended up with a dead Townie that didn't combat his voters to get reactions from.

he literally said earlier in this thread they subbed out because I kept saying you and Mido were defending him, which I haven't done in this game
whatever that means

He said that? I don't remember... He was Mafia in that game though, so he could have been pressured from your comments on him that he would get lynched, and thus he asked to be subbed out.

What's up with you sheeping votes on Jinjo?
The vote you sheeped at D1 was FA's voting Jinjo too.

p r e s s u r e

I thought her reply in Day 1 was good, but I still wanted more posts from her, which she really didn't provide. I thought her reaction to our votes on her was a big overreaction, but maybe it was because of the large wagon on her? She ended up providing reads and then ended up with a vote on Tood so I was willing to throw a bone.

What part of it?

Pretty much all of it yeah. He mentioned and prodded players for the same reasons I was thinking in the back of my head.

Why not just out their role and ask to be lynched the Day after, or even push their own Lynch D1 if they're being scumread and more likely to hurt multiple town rather than maybe a single scum

Huh? Why would Town ask to be lynched Day 2? If they did that, we'd kind of have a wasted day with people having the excuse to vote him.

Pika's 3rd vote came late, so maybe he didn't think he was in that much trouble until after that third vote? I don't see Town trying to get themselves lynched for suspicion on them as a viable strategy anyone would do.

This argument feels lazy. Just because someone something borderline bastard after the game was said to be bastard I don't think that should clear them.
Or am I missing something and they claimed before the host announced it to be bastard?

I don't think it clears their alignment, but it's pretty much the only bastard claim we knew at the time that if it were in the game, it wouldn't make sense for Mafia to out it when they could use it to kill (or Roleblock) Townies. Now, Pika claimed his full role, and it feels a bit too thought out to be a standard claim. I've never seen a claim like it, so I'm more willing to believe it's his actual role and that he is paranoid Town about what could have happened N1.

 

[HumanDawn]

Hrmm, I'd say my top two town reads are Space and TheCapsFan. Top two scumreads would be yourself and Jinjo. Adding someone else to the scumreads tho, I'd also put Deku up there.

Hmm... Could you explain these reads more to me? Feels kind of weird that your top two town reads also happen to be people voting alongside you.

 

[HumanDawn]

Idk, I can't really explain how I'm getting that impression (and it's probably wrong) but the whole post just felt weird.

Why don't y'all think of me as an asset instead of a liability? Instead of wasting a lynch on me, if you just let me be, the mafia won't kill me without risking one of their own, so they would rather lynch me off. If you give me one chance, I'll be more active and help with scumhunting. If you still find me suspicious after that, you can always lynch me later.

Hmm, I guess you mean by the first sentence? I think it's weird because I don't think anyone voted him for claiming to have a bastard role, but because he didn't claim all of it immediately. It's a bad defence, because it's basically "I'm Town guys, just give me time to prove it with scumhunting!" when his vote now is on Space and he hasn't really questioned anyone else. I doubt he is an Independent - If he was, Cop was just learn he is one and not be motivated to out their result for just a lynch on an Independent instead of Mafia.

 

[HumanDawn]

Good call out

FTR, I still wouldn't mind a lynch on them. Feels like their contributions have been on the low side.

why not? it can't be verified and people would hesitate to lynch him after D1

He wouldn't claim it because then Mafia would know for sure to not target him.

I have a few more exams and I've been studying for them yea
but I'm on a kind of a break week and kinda just busy with three large mafia games and they're kinda overwhelming me :bunnydoom:

Good luck.

Sorry if it was kind of stalkerish, that's why despite taking the screenshot of what you said, I decided not to share it in the thread at least.

I know this post came before the claim but RC's role is pretty bastard tho
Does that change anything?

Not much, but I feel like both roles have a place in the game. If they're both Town, then say Mafia targets RC or RC targets them. The action can be randomized to make them hit Pika_Pika42 and make them end up killing them. There's such an ingenuity to that idea to the game with such roles I can see Lone_Garurumon making two roles like that with the hopes they bounce on each other. It's like they're bread and butter.