Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[Feenie]

Idk how that makes pika pika better.

Yeah you're right, I misread Piko's post before

In re PP42: I did find it weird that PP42 claimed "don't cop check me" and then it implies that Aussie visited PP42 and therefore, PP42 is scum. If that theory were to hold true, then it would have to imply that mafia targeted someone and that target was doc protected. I'm not sure if Aussie and PP42 being connected last night is a thing. It is more likely that PP42 is trying to hide something with the "don't investigate me" post.

And it can come across as scum trying to cover for scum, in hindsight. Nvm that, but I do feel good about HD as well as Deku.

 

[TheCapsFan]

The biggest thing that is affected by the Piko lynch is DekuNut, who looks a lot better now. It's a bit stretchy to say that Piko was distancing when he voted Deku two separate times. Fatima looks better for breaking the tie as well, but this in my eyes doesn't say much about Pikapika's alignment as much as people think.

More on this later

 

[Jinjo]

The remaining mafia are most likely somewhere within this list

ZinnLav
DekuNut - Pikochu voting DekuNut I can see as distancing and I have seen mafia do this alot especially on MafiaScum forum.
Tood
Luminary
Space
Midorikawa - Pikochu had 5 votes and Pika had 4 votes. When Mido unvoted Pika he had 3 votes and I will have to correct Mido on this because this was not a tied vote.
HumanDawn - If there's a busser it is him and I heard HD busses alot.
TheCapsFan

 

[Feenie]

DekuNut - Pikochu voting DekuNut I can see as distancing and I have seen mafia do this alot especially on MafiaScum forum.

Twice, though?

 

[FinalArcadia]

I don't think I've seen anything that will change my mind at this point, I will leave my vote where it is.

I know this is kind of WIFOM, but this level of wanting to leave his vote on Pika and actually pointing it out even when Piko either became the majority or was very close to it does feel pretty legit in a "I think you guys are making a mistake not voting Pika over Piko" and as scum, I don't think he'd want to draw more attention to NOT being on the wagon that took out a mafia member.

This kind of makes DekuNut look a bit better considering Pikochu voted the slot twice. I like how ZinnLav tied the votes and then removed them when she was told that it would make a tie. Rainbow Cloud looks a lot more Town for being the first vote and pressuring ZinnLav on why she would make a tie. FinalArcadia looks even better, even if I feel like that would have been the perfect time to put in a bus vote. Fatima managed to pull through voting Pikochu and making the votes tie between the two, and ExLight voting Pikochu broke the tie, so both those two look better. Obviously there could still be bussing, but if there's any scum, that's when Town has to up their game and analyze the wagon deeper down the line if things come to that.

Midorikawa unvoting Pika_Pika42 looks good and is pro-Town to not risk a No Lynch happening. This might sound strange to say, but I'd argue she looks even better for not actually voting Pikochu, because she lost the opportunity to get credit if she is Mafia with him.

Pika_Pika42 can still be Mafia by the way. Kind of don't like how he unvoted Space and voted Pikochu after the actual lynch - which is what Pikochu did Day 1 when he voted DekuNut after the actual lynch happened, but it can be just a coincidence and if Pika_Pika42 wanted he could have voted Pikochu earlier for more cred and Pikochu might have made a genuine mistake in voting DekuNut N1 after the actual lynch D1.

I would like to hear other players' thoughts on my post's own thoughts here.

I kind of disagree about the Deku part, but I'll get to that later since I have another quote in here about it. ZinnLav's vote doesn't really make me lean town or scum on them; after Rainbow Cloud pointed out that Zinn made the votes a tie, I'd say Zinn's options became kind of limited regardless of alignment, because almost nobody - town or mafia - is going to want to keep a tie that they created when it's clear they're online, knowing that it is going to look very bad and that they had been alerted to it. Fatima actually voting one of the relevant wagons and not a throwaway vote (like Piko's on DekuNut) and even pushing the lynch to tying the Pika one looks good. And agreed on ExLight as well. Your vote also looks fine since you'd been seeing Pika's claim as not being lynch-worthy the entire phase, so it made sense you followed RC on Piko.

Yeah, I also feel a little better about Midorikawa too for the way the phase ended. She is known to bus, but her reason for wanting to have something to work with, even if it wasn't her preferred wagon, is pro-town.

I don't see the too-late Pika_pika vote as anything bad for coming after the update because it'd be pretty foolish for scum to do the same thing that a scumbuddy did knowing that they were about to get lynched, and there wouldn't really be any benefit to it anyway since Piko was getting lynched without Pika's vote. I think it was a legitimate mistake time-wise for Pika, and the timestamps of the update and his vote are the same.

Though the point you raise regarding Pikochu voting Deku twice is valid, it could also be a case of distancing as both the times, Deku was far from being lynched, with Pikochu's vote being the only vote on them.

Twice, though?

It's been a LONG time, but I swear Pikochu did something similar as scum in one of the Chaos Mafia games, voting his scumbuddy Zexy more than once or something. I think he even had a late vote that came in after the update in it too, because IIRC that's how he got caught because of something a spy got from the scum chat that was like "dammit I missed the update" lol. That may not have happened here, but when Pikochu hadn't really provided many thoughts on players, keeping a vote on DekuNut was probably the safest thing he could do without seeming like he was sheeping or voting in a way that could give us info on him. I'm leery that it could be a distancing attempt, and DekuNut is really needed in-thread at this point, partly because...

So the thing I don’t like is how fast the Piko wagon built up and how there was nothing really stopping it. That makes me think mafia have some OP roles or they are highly inactive because Piko was rolecop. This early in the game that role is pretty essential for them, so it’s strange they let it get lynched so easily.

I wonder if the lack of defense for Piko is because the Pikochu wagon happened in the final >24 hours of the phase. The players who weren't present for that may include mafia who didn't have time to defend Pikochu (like potentially DekuNut). Bussing is also possible, but I agree that it's very weird to let the rolecop of all roles go down like that, because scum only would've had the chance to get a single player's ability so far at most. The closest thing to a defense of Piko was Zinn's tie vote.

 

[Pika_pika42]

Midorikawa - Pikochu had 5 votes and Pika had 4 votes. When Mido unvoted Pika he had 3 votes and I will have to correct Mido on this because this was not a tied vote.

She didn't mean hers was a tied vote. She removed her vote so that nobody else could tie the votes.

 

[Jinjo]

The remaining mafia are most likely somewhere within this list

ZinnLav
DekuNut - Pikochu voting DekuNut I can see as distancing and I have seen mafia do this alot especially on MafiaScum forum.
Tood
Luminary
Space
Midorikawa - Pikochu had 5 votes and Pika had 4 votes. When Mido unvoted Pika he had 3 votes and I will have to correct Mido on this because this was not a tied vote.
HumanDawn - If there's a busser it is him and I heard HD busses alot.
TheCapsFan

It's a good thing I was not on the Pikochu wagon since that would mean I will get killed off soon.

I would like to talk more about ZinnLav and DekuNut. ZinnLav made his catchup post saying he read up to page 24 and then he votes Pika. Why would ZinnLav even bother on voting Pika when he hasn't finished reading everything? This looks like scum who tried to get Pika lynched instead of Pikochu. Next is DekuNut and the fact that Pikochu has been voting DekuNut makes DekuNut look even more worse and this looks like big time distancing to me. If Pikochu didn't vote DekuNut so much then that would have made DekuNut look better.

Whoever quoted me I'll answer later since I just wanted to get this out of the way and I need to take care of some stuff.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I would like to talk more about ZinnLav and DekuNut. ZinnLav made his catchup post saying he read up to page 24 and then he votes Pika. Why would ZinnLav even bother on voting Pika when he hasn't finished reading everything? This looks like scum who tried to get Pika lynched instead of Pikochu.

Wait these are actually really good points.

This got me thinking...If Zinn is, in fact, mafia, is it possible that all three? mafia are inactives/lowposters? Maybe Snowy DID target Pikapika and then there was just no nightkill?

 

[Midorikawa]

I really don’t like how many townpoints deku is getting right now. Let’s say it was mafia vs town with the two pikas. That means mafia did nothing. Maybe one voted him for distancing or bussing, but that does imply some inactivity, putting deku and Zinnlav at the top of the list.

The above thought looks unfinished because I started it hours ago but got busy at work and Every one has Finished it already. And erasing is too much effort.

Now then:

HumanDawn - If there's a busser it is him and I heard HD busses alot.

Lol. Most likely to buss is human, me and FA. Pretty sure FA and I have bussed eachother a couple times now lol. Anyways I wouldn’t worry about that paranoia, otherwise you’ll drive yourself insane.

Midorikawa - Pikochu had 5 votes and Pika had 4 votes. When Mido unvoted Pika he had 3 votes and I will have to correct Mido on this because this was not a tied vote.

Pika explained this, but I never said I was untying the votes. I was making sure the votes couldn’t be tied again.

It's a good thing I was not on the Pikochu wagon since that would mean I will get killed off soon.

Wait these are actually really good points.

This got me thinking...If Zinn is, in fact, mafia, is it possible that all three? mafia are inactives/lowposters? Maybe Snowy DID target Pikapika and then there was just no nightkill?

Which is why deku is public enemy no 1 right now. His alignment can answer quite a few questions I think.

 

[Midorikawa]

It's a good thing I was not on the Pikochu wagon since that would mean I will get killed off soon.

Dang doing stuff on phone.

Why? This post makes no sense.

 

[Rainbow Cloud]

Not sure of an obvious bus vote, am mostly reading the ones on the Piko wagon as looking more town.

HD - Cautiously leaning more town on HD, was second on the wagon and seems a bit early for a bus since it didn't seem likely this vote would go anywhere at the time and it didn't seem necessary for scum to bus Piko at this time either but could also be distancing and could absolutely see HD doing it. HD has been actively looking at multiple players and seems to be trying to move the game forward.

FA - Leaning Town on FA, she's seems to be looking at everyone and looks to be actively scumhunting and trying to move the game forward. Could see the potential for a bus on Piko though.

Fatima - Gave the least explanation for their vote and not voting for either of their top scumreads, feel this is consistent with how they've been playing though, my gut still feels town on them. HD makes a good point about them tying up the votes, scum could've just left things to play out if we were on our way to a mislynch with Pika, this goes out the window if Pika is also scum though.

Ex - Leaning Town on Ex, focusing in detail on a lot of players and looks to be scumhunting, cast the deciding vote to break the tie with Pika. Could be the potential for a bus to gain some town cred, particularly if Pika is also scum and it's likely one was going to be lynched anyway.

Pika Pika - Kind of still not sure on Pika but not to keen on these posts:

I agree, the manner and speed in which Pikochu's wagon has grown beside mine without any defence from his side or without anyone defending him is suspicious. Feels like both of us are town and the mafia would like a mislynch anyway, no matter who gets lynched.
@Pikochu don't you want to say anything for yourself?

Feels like this one may be casting shade on me a bit here with the line about the mafia wanting a mislynch anyway given my recent post directed at Zinn about a tie not giving us any information. Also seems a tie may be Pika's preferred outcome at this point.

No. I'm not even sure whether Pikochu is Town, it just felt weird that his wagon grew seemingly out of nowhere without any defence whatsoever. Plus, with the cop dead, any information we can get is helpful. I would have liked to hear something from Pikochu first but he seems to be totally inactive.
I'll also place my vote on them and hope they actually are mafia.

Unvote: Space
Vote: Pikochu

This comes late after the update but sees another u-turn from Pika after being challenged by Mido as to whether he would prefer a tie, now changing his vote to Piko. Could be a bus.

Tood - Still not too sure on his survivour claim and think there's more to it that he's holding back. Need to hear more from them.

Jinjo - Still reading Jinjo as town, nothing's really changed from when I gave my last read on her.

Deku - Slight more of a town lean on Deku, Piko's votes on him could be an attempt to distance but think this may have just been an easy vote for Piko to make without needing much justification. Deku's low activity would make him a good target for a mislynch.

Mido - Leaning more town, quite a lot of focus on HD and Pika and a lot of the interaction with HD also being about Pika. Took vote off Pika to avoid a tie which looks good, would've been easy for scum to leave it there and hope for a tie.

Luminary - Kind of null on Luminary still, possibly a bit too quick to change her mind toward Pika upon Piko's flip. Later clarified this as a misread of Pika's post.

Space - Leaning scum on Space, has been sheeping during the game and the 5th vote on Jinjo during day 2 felt opportunistic like they were just trying to push the lynch through and didn't give much in the way of reason behind it.

Caps - Leaning scum on Caps, not to keen on these posts in particular:

Pre re-read, I'm gonna put FinalArcadia and Rainbow Cloud as top town. FinalArcadia has been gamesolving through both scumhunting and flavorsolving and I agree with a lot of what she has to say. Rainbow Cloud is a read that may be subject to change based on Pikapika (If they are both telling the truth, I don't think they would be on the same team) but I do feel good about his claim, in my opinion he showed towny promise on D1 despite his activity, which is contrary to a lot of the lowposters, and another +1 in his favor. ExLight could be up there as well.

This very much looks like setting up the next line of attack here, he's linking me with Pika, pretty much saying I look town and my claim is more believable but if Pika flips town, that's all subject to change because he doesn't believe we can both be town. I very much think if the vote had gone the other way and Pika flipped as town, I'd be being lined up for the lynch day 3.

Because I think I convinced myself that RC and Pika are not on the same team. I know that might not make sense right now, but hopefully it will start to after today.

Again says he is convinced we can't be on the same team thus reiterating that Pika's potential flip is linked to my alignment. Either Caps is really convinced Pika is going to flip scum or he's already planning tomorrow's lynch.

I don't think I've seen anything that will change my mind at this point, I will leave my vote where it is.

This post seems to show he's only committed to this outcome which would make sense if the above is what he was planning.

Zinn - Leaning Null to Sum, tied up the vote which could have led to Piko being saved and no information for town. She did take off the vote after I mentioned her and said she didn't realise her vote would cause a tie. Claims to have only caught up on day 1 which would make sense with the reads she gave, however she did seem to have knowledge of the case against Pika from more recent posts which goes against this a bit. My concern is scum could easily try to tie up the votes here and pretend to be unaware of the situation, while taking the vote off when the tie is pointed out looks better it is could also be the sensible thing for scum to do if what you were doing hadn't gone unnoticed.

 

[Jinjo]

Twice, though?

He voted twice and I saw that FA responded to you already.

I would like to talk more about ZinnLav and DekuNut. ZinnLav made his catchup post saying he read up to page 24 and then he votes Pika

I made a mistake on the bolded 24 and it is 16 and not 24. I didn't have my coffee earlier.

Dang doing stuff on phone.

Why? This post makes no sense.

That post is for future reference flips. I will not get too much into detail right now.

 

[Midorikawa]

That post is for future reference flips. I will not get too much into detail right now.

This just sounds scummy.

 

[Jinjo]

This just sounds scummy.

?

This is for me to look back on and how is it scummy? If you are making too much a big deal about it then I will consider it scum are trying to fish for answers.

 

[Midorikawa]

?

This is for me to look back on and how is it scummy? If you are making too much a big deal about it then I will consider it scum are trying to fish for answers.

You say you’re glad you aren’t on the Piko lynch because it would magically result in your death but then just remain vague about the comment saying you’ll say why after future flips which makes it sound like you know soemthong. You’re just taunting.

 

[Jinjo]

You say you’re glad you aren’t on the Piko lynch because it would magically result in your death but then just remain vague about the comment saying you’ll say why after future flips which makes it sound like you know soemthong. You’re just taunting.

Me not being on the Piko wagon means I can solve the game more and I like it when I'm not on a first scum lynch since that way I don't have to worry about being a night kill for being on the first scum wagon and I interpreted your post earlier as if you were scum who is fishing

 

[Midorikawa]

Me not being on the Piko wagon means I can solve the game more and I like it when I'm not on a first scum lynch since that way I don't have to worry about being a night kill for being on the first scum wagon and I interpreted your post earlier as if you were scum who is fishing

Why would you think you’d be a nightkill for being on a mafia lynch much less one woth such a large wagon? Especially since you were almost lynched.

 

[Jinjo]

Why would you think you’d be a nightkill for being on a mafia lynch much less one woth such a large wagon? Especially since you were almost lynched.

Normally mafia would kill a player who is on a scum wagon and that's why I think if I was to be on a scum wagon I would be one of the candidates to get killed at night. So you're saying mafia can just randomly kill a player by doing eenie meenie miney mo even after a scum gets lynched?

 

[Midorikawa]

Normally mafia would kill a player who is on a scum wagon and that's why I think if I was to be on a scum wagon I would be one of the candidates to get killed at night. So you're saying mafia can just randomly kill a player by doing eenie meenie miney mo even after a scum gets lynched?

Mafia is going to go for players that are threats. Someone jumping on the wagon is not a threat, it would be the one who started the wagon. And they’ve had rolecop for one night so they are more likely to go for who try rolecopped if that person had a threatening role, especially if it has the added effect of confusing town. There is nothing that would have made you a viable mafia target as opposed to people like FA

 

[HumanDawn]

I was busy today playing final fantasy 7 remake and will probably not manage to post that much but I will try!

Re: DekuNut, I said it kind of makes him look better because compared to the little amount he has posted, it's something that can be seen as good for him.

....But she did vote him so I don’t see how that makes it a non bus vote.

I don’t think FA is mafia, but your logic makes no sense here.

It's because it's the third vote when Pika_Pika had 4 votes. Fatima tied, Exlight broke it. When FA placed hers, it wasn't guaranteed that others would agree and there would be another few votes for the lynch. This is also assuming Pika_Pika42 is Town too. This also counts for me too btw, but I know I'm Town. I don't suspe

I was busy today playing final fantasy 7 remake and will probably not manage to post that much but I will try!

Re: DekuNut, I said it kind of makes him look better because compared to the little amount he has posted, it's something that can be seen as good for him.

....But she did vote him so I don’t see how that makes it a non bus vote.

I don’t think FA is mafia, but your logic makes no sense here.

It's because it's the third vote when Pika_Pika had 4 votes. Fatima tied, Exlight broke it. When FA placed hers, it wasn't guaranteed that others would agree and there would be another few votes for the lynch. This is also assuming Pika_Pika42 is Town too. This also counts for me too btw, but I know I'm Town. I don't suspect her for it though, but I thought it was worth saying.

I know this is kind of WIFOM, but this level of wanting to leave his vote on Pika and actually pointing it out even when Piko either became the majority or was very close to it does feel pretty legit in a "I think you guys are making a mistake not voting Pika over Piko" and as scum, I don't think he'd want to draw more attention to NOT being on the wagon that took out a mafia member.

Ehh, he didn't really draw more attention to it. There were still like, 8 hours left, so things could still change by being adamant in keeping with Pika_Pika42.

I kind of disagree about the Deku part, but I'll get to that later since I have another quote in here about it. ZinnLav's vote doesn't really make me lean town or scum on them; after Rainbow Cloud pointed out that Zinn made the votes a tie, I'd say Zinn's options became kind of limited regardless of alignment, because almost nobody - town or mafia - is going to want to keep a tie that they created when it's clear they're online, knowing that it is going to look very bad and that they had been alerted to it. Fatima actually voting one of the relevant wagons and not a throwaway vote (like Piko's on DekuNut) and even pushing the lynch to tying the Pika one looks good. And agreed on ExLight as well. Your vote also looks fine since you'd been seeing Pika's claim as not being lynch-worthy the entire phase, so it made sense you followed RC on Piko.

Good point on ZinnLav.

It's been a LONG time, but I swear Pikochu did something similar as scum in one of the Chaos Mafia games, voting his scumbuddy Zexy more than once or something. I think he even had a late vote that came in after the update in it too, because IIRC that's how he got caught because of something a spy got from the scum chat that was like "dammit I missed the update" lol. That may not have happened here, but when Pikochu hadn't really provided many thoughts on players, keeping a vote on DekuNut was probably the safest thing he could do without seeming like he was sheeping or voting in a way that could give us info on him. I'm leery that it could be a distancing attempt, and DekuNut is really needed in-thread at this point, partly because...

Wow, nice catch! I reread Pikochu's posts and he mentioned TheCapsFan a lot too but never did anything with it. Maybe all his interactions with TheCapsFan were distancing attempts as well?

Could you link the Chaos Game you're talking about?

I wonder if the lack of defense for Piko is because the Pikochu wagon happened in the final >24 hours of the phase. The players who weren't present for that may include mafia who didn't have time to defend Pikochu (like potentially DekuNut). Bussing is also possible, but I agree that it's very weird to let the rolecop of all roles go down like that, because scum only would've had the chance to get a single player's ability so far at most. The closest thing to a defense of Piko was Zinn's tie vote.

It's possible. I strongly doubt no scum tried saving Pikochu though.

Most likely scum in my eyes as of now:

TheCapsFan / Space / DekuNut / ZinnLav

There could be scum not in this... maybe Jinjo, but I feel like her latest posts have been more from her Town self.