Mafia Archie Sonic Mafia, Endgame: TBA (4/8/20)

[HumanDawn]

Well I think he's Mafia and we should try a bandwagon to see if my read on him works(which it will)then it'll lessen the pressure on Townies a bit

Why do you think it will work? You voted Pika_Pika42 first and then Feenie/Luminary.

Do you know something that makes you think it's either Pika_Pika42 or Feenie/Luminary?

 

[HumanDawn]

a) Why is Jinjo higher than me and Fatima?

b) Why is Feenie/Luminary higher than Rainbow Cloud?

You said you doubted there would be a busser for the Rolecop of all roles - what changed?

Actually, wasn't Feenie/Luminary a top scum read?

 

[ExLight]

Why is Jinjo higher than me and Fatima?

she’s around the same as you and I don’t see why she should be lower than fatima

Why is Feenie/Luminary higher than Rainbow Cloud?

as I said before I also saw them softing and I’m pretty sure it was intentional in that case
the readslist softs what I mean

You said you doubted there would be a busser for the Rolecop of all roles - what changed?

wdym

 

[ExLight]

Actually, wasn't Feenie/Luminary a top scum read?

i’m pretty sure I said right after N1 that I saw a soft that threw them on the top of my readslist because I caught onto something while rereading the thread

 

[HumanDawn]

she’s around the same as you and I don’t see why she should be lower than fatima

Okay, why should she be higher than Fatima then?

You think it's Town Jinjo?

wdym

You said you doubted there would be a busser for the Rolecop of all roles - what changed?

 

[ExLight]

Okay, why should she be higher than Fatima then?

You think it's Town Jinjo?

I think I don’t know how to read her atm, which is why she’s null
and I think Fatima playstyle is scummy

not sure what’s your question about the bus about, none of the people that voted Piko are on the Zinn and bellow tier of my reads except maybe Fatima who you literally said a few hours ago you could see why I’d be a bit iffy about

 

[ExLight]

I was rereading some stuff and I think I just found something that puts Feenie in my town reads oops :surppika:

here, the part where I notice a soft and shove her into top town

 

[HumanDawn]

I think I don’t know how to read her atm, which is why she’s null
and I think Fatima playstyle is scummy

not sure what’s your question about the bus about, none of the people that voted Piko are on the Zinn and bellow tier of my reads except maybe Fatima who you literally said a few hours ago you could see why I’d be a bit iffy about

I woke up today thinking about you ( tbh why can't we be like Andrea and Cloud?? ) to poke your reads a bit because I felt like some didn't quite add up. That makes me feel better about your Luminary read, I completely forgot about it. I know you said you were iffy on Fatima earlier - but my question's focus was on why he was iffier than Jinjo.

Hmm... While we're at it, would you mind explaining the reads at least? Like, I don't think I remember if you talked about Midorikawa, Space or TheCapsFan (before his claim) much.

 

[ExLight]

I woke up today thinking about you

aw shucks

to poke your reads a bit because I felt like some didn't quite add up

oh well nevermind

I know you said you were iffy on Fatima earlier - but my question's focus was on why he was iffier than Jinjo.

? wdym?
Jinjo hasn’t done much to ping me as scum as opposed to Fatima

Hmm... While we're at it, would you mind explaining the reads at least? Like, I don't think I remember if you talked about Midorikawa, Space or TheCapsFan (before his claim) much.

uh sure
I’m on mobile rn so it will be kinda lazy
I’m liking mido’s aggressiveness since that’s usually a town indicator and her jumping off Pika’s wagon was arguably even more important than me tiebreaking that lynch without the flashiness of jumping in his wagon to get town cred so that’s pretty townie imo

Space feels a bit lackluster and I don’t agree with a lot of stuff they were pushing. I actually don’t remember much of their content and she probably deserves a reread, but I remember getting pinged by them a lot throughout the phases fsr. I won’t be able to point out from the top of my head but I can prolly comply the posts that annoyed me here later once I’m on PC.

Caps has been a rollercoaster and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with some of his opinions, but in the end I think I ended up disagreeing more and that puts him at the lower half of my list despite not really being something I’d consider a solid scumread
well, with his claim I’m actually considering dropping him more because things just don’t seem to add up here and he also played some weird moves like discrediting RC’s claim and lying about some stuff like was pointed out already

 

[HumanDawn]

To be honest, you're not really being read town by the majority of the game; you're moreso being read in the null range, so I could see where you would want the town cred to push you further, but at the same time though I do understand that you're not one who necessarily wants it or relies on it to be able to push your agenda. But I am glad to see that you are still considering yourself as a bus while trying to scumhunt.

Okay, I just thought of this - If I were scum and I decided to bus - in my first game after my Championship scum game - then I think I would know that if I bussed, they would be a lot less valuable when I can try putting forth as much mislynches as I can while handling myself answering posts. After all, I managed to handle myself in a Champs game later on when the numbers dwindled, and I could see myself being confident enough to do it this game, what, with a Cop dying already. I'd argue that my vote on Pikochu would be a distancing attempt, but even then, I put it as a risk, and it's even riskier because of how I defended Pika_Pika42, and if somebody says that Pika_Pika42 could also be Mafia, then it becomes an Elbereth and Colin situation again with going against scum while another scum is in a competing wagon... and I just... don't think I would be such a one-trick pony that I would literally do it again in my next scum game.

I think I'm being town read a fair bit by the majority of the game, and any nullness might just be Champs game paranoia really. I haven't actually seen any cases or reasons that would actually make me worried about getting lynched anytime soon, and I don't think I'm wrong in my reads or reasoning even if others may DIShem. I can see myself being Nightkilled sooner or later, but this past year I've made it to endgame in all my Town games except Superman because of your scum intervention and Hollywood I was Mafia in and Exlight & Jinjo targetted me N1.

I'll concede to this, I am also townreading Ex and RC for the moment so it makes no sense for me to argue against this.

The issue I get with then letting you go is that I get more uncomfortable about other Town reads.

It's almost never as simple as "Damn, it was the inactives all along! Everybody who posted a lot and voted scum is Town!", though Wisdom kept on saying it was the low posters that were all scum (but I don't think I posted that low, and I had less filler than more town who posted more) but I would hardly call that inactivity.

I do agree with some of your points on Space but feel that there are other people whose gameplay and content has been worse and more lynchworthy (Deku, Fatima before these recent posts). Which saddens me to say because I really don't see two scum there.

Well, I mean, Space voted Pika alongside you, so I can see some bias with that. Fatima is... an "enigma" (as in, too scummy to be scum), but he's been getting better in his posts trying to pursue players even if there's still that enigma surrounding him.

Why do you think you're not seeing scum between the two?

Ah, did you not catch the sarcasm? My bad. I'm not trying to be antagonistic towards you in any way besides disagreeing with most of the things you have to say.

No, I caught the sarcasm, but the way the sarcasm was presented can still throw the good mood of the game off.

I'll find some after this post.

Spoiler

I think I only recall her Day 1 game being fluffy other than her defense.

Sometimes I'm too explicit, sometimes I'm not explicit enough, really I'm just trying to solve the game, man. What do you want

My turn-ons include opinions and thoughts that I can see a logical thread from reaching Point A to Point B.

I think the problem is I want to read you as town, I think a lot of these responses are towny in nature, and I do follow a lot of your train of thought but despite what you're arguing I really do find your reasoning behind trusting Pikapika's claim to be just...not all there. I just don't agree with the logic behind the idea that the first bastard claim in a bastard game should be trusted especially because they didn't out all the way.

It was enough for me to think their claim is true and trust them for it when scum would not want to share it to get as many players as possible to target them to kill them. One of my thought processes was - the vig, the most important role that would just straight up kill a PGO, has already died, so anyone else that targets Pika is likely to die. Or rendered ineffective because of the roleblock... or it could pass through... but the bastard claim in a somewhat bastard game gave me enough pause. As I've said, it's not set in stone and the thought crossed my mind that the possibility that there could have been two scum wagons Day 2 (not sure i've shared that tho tbh). It literally happened in my champs game, heck each scum had a wagon Day 2!!

Also you claimed Bomb just now so I see why you'd disagree more.

I think if you two are connected Pikapika is more likely to be the mafia, his actions yesterday and today seemed like he was kind of riding it out under your wing (buddying) and he seems to be making very similar statements to those that you are making (sheeping your scumreads, 0 scum bussing on the Pikochu wagon, etc.). There is another reason I believe Pikapika is scum that I have been hiding that I will reveal after this post.

Well, again, I never said there was 0 scum bussing on the Pikochu... I think ExLight in N2 actually said that he didn't think scum would vote to lynch the RoleCop D2, meanwhile I said FinalArcadia could be the scum busser because her vote didn't put Pikochu on as much risk to be lynched than as Fatima or Exlight's vote, but I'm getting judged for it instead :M

I noticed what you mean about Pika_Pika42 sheeping me - the "hey i claimed and space didn't" comment kind of pinged me because it was deja vu, though the reason I said of how Pika's claim makes him better is based on information only, not Town effort.

 

[Feenie]

The bomb claim is interesting, and I'm trying to think of any character it could fit? Unfortunately, I've only read the Archie comics with specifically Shadow in them, so I'm not really sure. Although I do wonder if Shadow fits that? It's a stretch, but yeah if anyone here knows anyone who fits the role by all means say so. I want to believe it because Caps is a townread for me, but yet again it's one of those roles that's really hard to just instantly trust.

Call it both a feeling I have and another instinct

Dude if you're trying to start a wagon, that's really not good enough. This is all going nowhere fast.

 

[ZinnLav]

My turn-ons include opinions and thoughts that I can see a logical thread from reaching Point A to Point B.

Lewd

 

[Pika_pika42]

I didn't intend to say that I am exempting myself from scumhunting by claiming my role. It just feels bad to hear that I'm not contributing anything or Space has contributed 10x more than me when I am trying to contribute as and when I can. I may not have a large number of posts because I tend to compile all my thoughts in one big post rather than make different post for each of my different thought. I have been sharing my thoughts and reads what I feel.
Another factor is that HD keeps defending me strongly without me asking him to do so, while it's good he believes me and thinks I am Town, he tends to answer questions related to me, which I would have answered but since he already said the points which I wanted to, I feel it's futile to just keep repeating the same points. Sometimes, when I feel it's something really important and I should say it, I do it despite it already being said and that looks like I am parroting or blindly following HD. What should I do when I want to make a point but it's already said by someone else. If I stay quiet, it looks like I am not contributing and if I say those, it looks I am blindly repeating.

I am not a power player like Mido or HD, I am a mid-tier player and I am contributing as much I can. I have shared my entire role and I am sharing my thoughts and reads as the game progresses.

Sorry if this feels like a rant but I needed to get this out as I get a feeling that no matter what I do, it's never enough.

 

[Pika_pika42]

Moving on to the game, TheCapsFan'sbomb claim is interesting, it'd be a risky claim to make as mafia when there are already 2 related claims out there but it could be done as a last resort maybe. Inclined to believe Cap's claim for now.

I'm still suspicious of Space but if the game doesn't agree with me on that lynch, I'm ready to lynch any of these players who are null to scum in my reads list.
DekuNut, ZinnLav, Tood & Fatima

 

[ExLight]

I’m sorry you’ve been feeling this way, Pika
I can’t speak for everyone but I think it would be safe to say that noone wanted to make this kinda personal and that we appreciate you as a player and person uwu

I feel like rather than coming up with a lot of posts or original points the important part is always keeping them updated and compiled in at least a semi-clear manner. So as long as a player does that I’ll prolly be fine and satisfied with their content no matter how I’m alignment reading them

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Spoiler: Pings

2. @Rainbow Cloud
3. @Midorikawa
5. @DekuNut
6. @ExLight
7. @Feenie
8. @ZinnLav
10. @Space
11. @TheCapsFan
12. @Pika_pika42
13. @Jinjo
15. @Tood
16. @HumanDawn
17. @Fatima Shadow Frost Witch
@dawn dusk

2/3-Phase Votals
DekuNut (5): Midorikawa, Jinjo, ExLight, TheCapsFan, ZinnLav
Space (1): Pika_pika42
Fatima Shadow Frost Witch (1): Feenie
Pika_pika42 (1): Space
Feenie (1): Fatima Shadow Frost Witch
Not Voting (4): Rainbow Cloud, DekuNut, Tood, HumanDawn

It is currently Day 3. Day 3 will end in 24 hours.
Countdown timer

 

[HumanDawn]

? wdym?
Jinjo hasn’t done much to ping me as scum as opposed to Fatima

I mind because I don't want to let you off too easily for the tie-breaker vote. I started minding more after TheCapsFan's claim, because I can't have too many Town reads. There's usually always at least one scum somewhere there...

uh sure
I’m on mobile rn so it will be kinda lazy
I’m liking mido’s aggressiveness since that’s usually a town indicator and her jumping off Pika’s wagon was arguably even more important than me tiebreaking that lynch without the flashiness of jumping in his wagon to get town cred so that’s pretty townie imo

Space feels a bit lackluster and I don’t agree with a lot of stuff they were pushing. I actually don’t remember much of their content and she probably deserves a reread, but I remember getting pinged by them a lot throughout the phases fsr. I won’t be able to point out from the top of my head but I can prolly comply the posts that annoyed me here later once I’m on PC.

Caps has been a rollercoaster and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with some of his opinions, but in the end I think I ended up disagreeing more and that puts him at the lower half of my list despite not really being something I’d consider a solid scumread
well, with his claim I’m actually considering dropping him more because things just don’t seem to add up here and he also played some weird moves like discrediting RC’s claim and lying about some stuff like was pointed out already

agreed on mido

me too on space, and for that i want to ask @Feenie how much do you Town read her?

TheCapsFan I agree with you too

 

[HumanDawn]

Oops, forgot to respond to this part. To fully answer your implications, before I voted a lot of our arguments were based on disagreements over one specific thing: Pikapika and their claim. A lot of people have commented already that our posts are just big and meaty and mushy and don't have much content as a whole, and distract from the game. By voting you, our discussion is less about that specific mush and more about votes and reasons why the other is scum.

Aight. Makes sense.

[UNVOTE]: HumanDawn
[VOTE]: DekuNut

I am willing enough to believe that Human is not scum for the moment and that if there is scum between them it is Pikapika for reasons I am about to reveal plus those I have already said.

I believe the towniest thing I can do at the moment to better a) clarify some of my actions and reads and b) help town solve the game through POE is to claim. I have dug myself in a hole enough to the point where my original intention of getting nightkilled is not going to happen.

I am claiming Bomb. This is the additional reason why I am so suspicious of Pikapika's claim of being a modified PGO, and the real reason why I quickly voted him on Day 2, as well as kept my vote on him later in the day. Our roles serve essentially the same purpose (where his claim is essentially a bastard version of mine) and I am confident in the fact that LG would not include both roles in the same game.

I see, that makes sense for how aggressive you were on Pika_Pika42. Convenient, but I can't deny the sense in them.

That said, IIRC, there's only a 1/4 or 2/4 chance of the role actually killing somebody, because the role has a chance of doing nothing, then there's the roleblock and then there's the bomb, and then I think both the roleblock and bomb, which would make it at 2/4 chance of killing somebody? @Pika_pika42 can you share how your role works again?

Also, your role needs you to die, and you claim it only works with NKs and not a lynch, which would make sense if there was kind of similar role to it as well in the game.

To clarify my interactions with Rainbow Cloud on day 2: the original statement I made D2 about me not being affected by RC's action is true. Because my bomb did not go off, I cannot verify his role after all. Why did I decide to flip flop and claim that it did affect me after the fact? Simply, I slipped. I forgot that I had made that original statement when crafting the second and instead tried to backpedal and use RC's target to soft a PR, and bait a nightkill last night, which obviously did not work (either because scum did not catch my soft, or more likely because I was not selling it at all). Learning Pikapika's alignment from his flip was somewhat central to whatever my next step would be today, and I hinted at this when I said that Pikapika's lynch would lead to more information than Pikochu's.

But... bomb only goes off if you're getting killed :M. Of course your bomb did not go off, because bomb goes off if you are targetted to be killed, not when you're affected by a role! A cop checking you doesn't put them at risk of blowing you up and them at all.

The PR softing makes sense and that helps ease me a lot on that considering how much it bothered me.

That makes your statement of Pika's lynch being better than Pikochu make more sense. I'm doubting that you made all this up in the spot at least.

Tip: Don't say these kind of statements, because it gives you the image you are hiding something and it will reflect badly on you. There are a few times I would think of making statements like that, but knowing the confusion it may cause, I avoid them, but I understand wanting to say something about lynching Pika over Pikochu considering the situation.

This should make more sense as to why I initially thought that Human and Pika were scumbuds and why eventually I shifted to saying that one of them is mafia.

Why am I voting DekuNut and not Pikapika? Pressure, I want them to show up and give their thoughts, I have already said that I would be okay with lynching them this phase, and their actions

I would also be willing to vote for Feenie because this is the second time that Fatima has tried to start a bandwagon on Feenie this phase and their latest posts seem to hint at them having some sort of extra information. I thought about pressuring them to cut the bullshit and claim but i would rather their claim not be out in the open if it is investigative given that we've already lost two investigative roles already. Personally I think that JOAT is more likely for Fatima because of that fact. I've already thought that Fatima has acted too scummy to be scum and put themselves too far out there, I do think they softclaimed PR in their first post (or at least an early post) on Day 1, and I would like to follow this thread.

Noted on the first two lines.

If Fatima has extra information, they should just out it at this point. Doctor should still be alive, I doubt we have only a bulletproof. We could hope to hit a Roleblocker if his info is that good, or a Strongman, both of which would be good options to ensure Fatima's longevity.

Oh, and considering we don't have a Miller claim out, I'm betting there isn't a Godfather too, not that it matters anyway because the Cop is dead but that thought just occurred to me.

My role does not activate when I am lynched so if you want to policy lynch me for lying to the town, I understand. Or if you think I'm scum and my lynch would give more information than a DekuNut or Feenie or Tood or Space lynch. Just please do not hammer me so I have enough time to read the entire game and give a coherent final reads list so that town knows they can work off of something tomorrow.

You only had one vote before, I don't think you need to be this worried. I don't think you were in the cards to be lynched today considering how much DekuNut is being scumread in them never delivering, so you might now have needed to go as far as claim your role, but I think it's in the character of you to do it considering how much you praised Rainbow Cloud to share his role compared to Pika_Pika42 who didn't share it all immediately. If I had to bring in my own 2 cents, I actually didn't like how DekuNut just laughed when FA accused him for his inactivity. It's not just that he took the first opportunity he could to point it out, but that he laughed at it too instead of just saying "Ahh, sorry, that's just how am I am!", if that makes sense. Like, he's deflecting it even harder like as if he has something to hide.

I might go back to voting Space. I know you said Pika sheeped me on it but in fairness he was already voting Space before, even if I did vote Space and unvoted her and he then voted her (at least i think that's how things went IIRC?).

 

[HumanDawn]

Need to look at @TheCapsFan 's claim in the morning but my first thought is I'm not keen on the part where he says he can't verify my role because his bomb didn't go off insinuating I'm lying. I'm not a killing role and didn't try to kill him which is the normal reason why a bomb goes off and my role doesn't sound like it affects passive roles which bomb is.

Can see why this would clash with Pika's claim but wondering if Lone would put both in.

He didn't suggest you were lying at all though.

Why would scum him lie, then say your role worked (which verifies it), then say it didn't work again with the intention to make you look bad? He didn't even accuse you or anything and still put you up as one of his top town reads.

Who are you voting today?

 

[HumanDawn]

Spoiler: Pings

2/3-Phase Votals
DekuNut (5): Midorikawa, Jinjo, ExLight, TheCapsFan, ZinnLav
Space (1): Pika_pika42
Fatima Shadow Frost Witch (1): Feenie
Pika_pika42 (1): Space
Feenie (1): Fatima Shadow Frost Witch
Not Voting (3): Rainbow Cloud, DekuNut, Tood

It is currently Day 3. Day 3 will end in 24 hours.
Countdown timer

*sniff* I'm decor too now...

That said I might just get back to Space anyway *shrugs*. I don't suspect Jinjo, ZinnLav or Mido enough to feel confident voting them.

Who would you vote @Tood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?