Review JN053: Catch the Legend!? Find the Guardian of Water - Suicune!!

[GrookeyFan77]

What doesn't make it shared when Goh is the one to make the entire plot possible and points out an information relevant for Ash's plot?

It is still Ash's plot. Then, the only reason Goh chased Scorbunny is because Ash forced him to. Then episode 17 is shared.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

(Notes for Finnish: I highlight that this one thing Pyro got wrong doesn't nullify the rest of the list to not come across as if I'm saying that.)

Understood.

 

[LazySpy]

It is still Ash's plot. Then, the only reason Goh chased Scorbunny is because Ash forced him to.

... When did Ash force Goh to chase Scorbunny in episode 10?

 

[Kurolegacy]

JN010 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

JN016 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN021 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN030 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN034 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN039 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN051 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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JN056 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

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These also disagree

30 wasn’t even an Ash episode, it was a Pikachu episode. And 56 hasn’t even aired yet so how do you know what amount Go will be involved in it? And even then, that kinda highlights a bit of an issue that only, at max, 9 episodes out of 56 have focused purely on Ash without him having to share the spotlight while with Go based episodes, they tend to have Ash basically step aside so Go can shine.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

... When did Ash force Goh to chase Scorbunny in episode 10?

In episode 17.

30 wasn’t even an Ash episode, it was a Pikachu episode.

Who owns Pikachu? Also It was an Ash episode, It was about him learning to rely less on Riolu.

9 episodes out of 56 have focused purely on Ash without him having to share the spotlight while with Go based episodes, they tend to have Ash basically step aside so Go can shine.

There are also some episodes like JN025, where Ash is the focus but Goh also does something

 

[LazySpy]

In episode 17.

But we're talking about 10, why do you bring it up?

Also, we should probably move the discussion on Ash and Goh focus to generall Anime and Manga thread... Or better yet, this one:

Does Pokemon Journeys Have A Balance Issue?

Recently, a big discussion topic has been whether Pokemon Journeys has a big issue balancing its two protagonists. Like Diamond and Pearl, this series treats one of Ash's companions as a co-protagonist, or in this case, Ash's only companion. Recently, people have been questioning whether this...

forums.bulbagarden.net

 

[GrookeyFan77]

But we're talking about 10, why do you bring it up?

Because you said the plot was possible cuz of Goh, and that episodes plot was possible cuz of Ash. But it is not an Ash episode.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Who owns Pikachu? Also It was an Ash episode, It was about him learning to rely less on Riolu.

There are also some episodes like JN025, where Ash is the focus but Goh also does something

And? The entire episode was focused on Pikachu and its feelings of jealousy. Ash’s “lesson” was of such little importance that they had him learn it offscreen with them mentioning about Koharu getting on him about it. Simply because a Pokémon is owned by someone doesn’t mean the episode is about the trainer as well.

As for episode 25, we literally had points where we cut away from Ash’s tournament to focus on Go. This is in direct opposition to episode 18 and episode 39 where they focused entirely on Ash’s things and relegated Go’s captures to offscreen, having acknowledged that he was after certain Pokémon as to not disrupt the flow of anything. Hell, the fact that 25 was a tournament style event for Ash, there shouldn’t have been anything to interrupt Ash’s plot at all.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

And? The entire episode was focused on Pikachu and its feelings of jealousy. Ash’s “lesson” was of such little importance that they had him learn it offscreen with them mentioning about Koharu getting on him about it. Simply because a Pokémon is owned by someone doesn’t mean the episode is about the trainer as well.

The entire plot was focused on Pikachu and Ash. Ash ignored Pikachu and trained with Riolu. The only time that Pikachu got more focus then him in the episode was in the middle portion.

As for episode 25, we literally had points where we cut away from Ash’s tournament to focus on Go. This is in direct opposition to episode 18 and episode 39 where they focused entirely on Ash’s things and relegated Go’s captures to offscreen, having acknowledged that he was after certain Pokémon as to not disrupt the flow of anything. Hell, the fact that 25 was a tournament style event for Ash, there shouldn’t have been anything to interrupt Ash’s plot at all.

Goh didnt interrupt the plot that much. I honestly was glad we did not get to see poor Gengar getting destroyed.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

This discussion doesn't really belong in this thread, as @SpookySpy already said.

 

[Emelie]

I think it's OK for Gou to catch legendary Pokemon since it is his goal after all just like how winning contests was Dawn's and May's goals.

The problem is the execution since this episode felt like a filler and Gou caught it very easily with a regular Pokeball. Maybe catching Suicune should have been the focus of the episode and maybe it could even have been an arc.

Instead of having Suicune solve the problem with the water immediately this could have been Gou's reason for catching it. Maybe Suicune could have acted like a roaming Pokemon in the games and ran away at first which would force Gou to use his brain and come up with a strategy to catch it. Instead of some random bad guys he could have had a decent rival who wanted to compete with him (Eusine, Marina, Lyra or maybe even Satoshi). Then the catch would have felt more earned since we got to witness the struggle.

I do like how the episode showed Gou's and Satoshi's different personalites. Satoshi just leaps into action without a plan and relies on his op Pokemon while Gou tries to be logical. He wants to call the police, leaves some strong Pokemon on lookout while he goes and catches a psychic Pokemon that has advantage over poison types.

 

[Greninjaman]

Does it matter what kind of ball is used? I don't think catch rates are a thing in the show.

 

[SlyGecko]

Does it matter what kind of ball is used? I don't think catch rates are a thing in the show.

Then why do other types of Pokeball exist? Why would Leon, who is an experienced trainer, bother trying to using an ultraball to catch a powerful Pokemon like eternatus when any kind of pokemon would work?

 

[Greninjaman]

Then why do other types of Pokeball exist? Why would Leon, who is an experienced trainer, bother trying to using an ultraball to catch a powerful Pokemon like eternatus when any kind of pokemon would work?

Because it looks cooler than a regular Poke Ball?

 

[Kurolegacy]

Because it looks cooler than a regular Poke Ball?

The series has already established that certain balls work better for certain situations even as far back as Johto. Differences in pokeballs are more than just aesthetic even in the anime.

 

[Greninjaman]

The series has already established that certain balls work better for certain situations even as far back as Johto. Differences in pokeballs are more than just aesthetic even in the anime.

I guess you have a point.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

People keep forgetting that other Legendaries and Mythicals have been caught in regular Poké Balls in the anime before. The skill of the Trainer doesn't matter when talking about the potency of a Poké Ball.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think it's OK for Gou to catch legendary Pokemon since it is his goal after all just like how winning contests was Dawn's and May's goals.

The problem is the execution since this episode felt like a filler and Gou caught it very easily with a regular Pokeball. Maybe catching Suicune should have been the focus of the episode and maybe it could even have been an arc.

I'm not sure how the episode felt like filler when Suicune will most likely come into play later on in the series. Goh caught it easily with a regular Pokeball because of how it was already so weak. Even after it got out of the Pokeball, it went for the closest hiding spot and collapsed from exhaustion and poison. As a side note, people complaining about Goh catching Suicune with a regular Pokeball reminds me of how I caught Suicune in Crystal with a regular Pokeball too. It isn't the same thing when I battled it first and used other Pokeballs first of course, but catching Legendary Pokemon with regular Pokeballs isn't impossible even in the games.

Instead of having Suicune solve the problem with the water immediately this could have been Gou's reason for catching it. Maybe Suicune could have acted like a roaming Pokemon in the games and ran away at first which would force Gou to use his brain and come up with a strategy to catch it. Instead of some random bad guys he could have had a decent rival who wanted to compete with him (Eusine, Marina, Lyra or maybe even Satoshi). Then the catch would have felt more earned since we got to witness the struggle.

I'm not surprised that they didn't make it a roaming Pokemon, mostly because using Roar would have rendered any tension when confronting Suicune moot. As cool as it would for them to bring in other characters like Eusine, Marina or Lyra back for this, they still usually space out appearances from older characters in this series. Personally, I think that the setup itself worked fine, especially when Goh earning Suicune trust after saving it is one of the reasons I think that the outcome felt believable. The episode probably would have been more controversial if Goh was going up against other more experienced trainers trying to catch Suicune.

The more I think about it, the more I think that this setup would have worked nicely as a two parter. The episode itself didn't really feel rushed. but having an episode establishing the setting so that it would actually feel like Johto, having a bit more lore on Suicune beyond purifying water and having them battle the poachers a bit longer before Goh caught Suicune could have helped to make Goh bonding with Suicune and earning its trust in the following episode. Like I said before, I still think it worked quite nicely as just one episode and Suicune's decision at the end still felt believable, but there was definitely room to make it a two-parter, if only to give the plot a bit more buildup and breathing room. The fact that this is more of an issue with the series as a whole as opposed to a problem specifically just with this episode or with Goh's episodes in particular probably helps too. If that wasn't the case, then I might have been more annoyed or flustered over this episode instead.

I do like how the episode showed Gou's and Satoshi's different personalites. Satoshi just leaps into action without a plan and relies on his op Pokemon while Gou tries to be logical. He wants to call the police, leaves some strong Pokemon on lookout while he goes and catches a psychic Pokemon that has advantage over poison types.

I thought that was pretty nice too.

 

[Sobblelelle]

I’d say that a problem that I have with the way they present Go’s catching style, his first thought is ‘catch the Pokémon’ in really any given situation as if it’s a one size fits all approach as opposed to thinking about if he should. And it certainly doesn’t help that the majority of the Pokémon Go catches are basically just turned into nothing more than props at Sakuragi Park. The quantity over quality approach along with the fact that the writers give Go nothing to do with his Pokémon sans give them an appearance once in a blue moon as the equivalent of a tool to work in a specific situation just leaves me cold. Pokémon were always treated as companions and characters within their respective series but with Go, they’re basically just another box to be checked. They’re obviously not going to make him out to be any kind of villain as a main character but their use of Go just leaves me cold.

There are multiple times when Goh doesn't catch wild pokemon that he doesn't have. The dozen species in the recent fossil episode, or the Beutifly's in episode 22, amongst others. Also while you can say that he doesn't think about if he should catch them, we haven't been presented with a situation in which he shouldn't. You could make the case that that was what the Diglett episode was, but they were requested to deal with a pest problem, they succeeded, and when the Diglett were revealed to not be the source of the problem Goh left Dugtrio behind.

In the majority of cases Goh does throw a pokeball first, but when that fails he moves straight to battling. He has also been battling or befriending pokemon even without throwing a ball for a while now.

Everything the show does indicates that Goh thinks of his pokemon as companions, the fact that we don't see as much interaction between them as we could have is more due to the series episodic nature than Goh's character. Even Ash hardly interacts with his pokemon and they often disappear for multiple episodes at a time. If Goh's pokemon can be reduced to tools due to their lack of screentime, then isn't it the same for Ash and the other cast members?

I get that this might no be the best place to talk about this, but I gotta say it, even being off-topic:

After this ep there's ABSOLUTELY no excuse to make Ash lose his final battle against Leon and become the strongest in the world. If they gave Goh an box legendary literally 47 episodes after he struggled to catch an SCHYTER, Ash can d*** well win against Leon after all this time of training and battling. 20+ YEARS. No BS OP Charizard as an excuse. Period. The writers set themselves into a hole with this ep. After the loss against Tobias and Alain, and Suicune going to Goh, if Ash loses at the end, I'm sure there's no way the writers can keep their credibility. It will be over for them if this happen.

Well if Ash befriends Leon, then maybe Leon will go easy on him and throw the match. Suicune choose to go with Goh due to his kindness not his battling skills. If Goh caught Mew and Ash didn't defeat Leon then that would be another story.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Goh was able to catch Suicune in a Pokeball so easily because it wanted to be caught. The anime has well-established that if the Pokémon wants to be caught, then catch-rate does not matter. It’s effectively a 100% chance.