Yami-no-Game
Solitude
- Joined
- May 21, 2019
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If this is real I wouldn't mind if Iris battles Goh instead of Ash since Ash and Iris already battled a few times in Unova and I would rather see Iris stomp Goh.
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Despite battling a few times, one was interrupted, in a very annoying way, whilst another was just plain stupid and one-sided considering the match-up, and the final one was ruined, or in other words felt cheap, all thanks to a tantrum that left one contestant hopeless.If this is real I wouldn't mind if Iris battles Goh instead of Ash since Ash and Iris already battled a few times in Unova and I would rather see Iris stomp Goh.
I’ll just agree to disagree then. We clearly have different opinions. I will say though that it’s not unreasonable to think that events could have happened off-screen since we last saw Iris. Iris probably has no idea that Ash placed 2nd and 1st in the last two leagues he entered, and she most likely sees him as the person who lost to Cameron in the Unova league top 8. Iris could have made similar progress during her time away, and I personally feel like it’s unfair to discredit any of Iris’s off-screen accomplishments. But to each their own.I still don't think that the amount of time since Iris last appears really means anything. To the audience, Iris hasn't been seen in over seven years, but the same amount of time hasn't passed within the anime itself. Time makes no sense within the anime, so bringing up how many episodes or years it's been since characters have appeared seems a bit moot to me. I'm just saying that I don't think that the amount of episodes since Iris' last appearance necessarily justifies any and all kinds of changes for her team.
I’d rather that returning character battles not be wasted on the guy who has near zero interest in Pokémon battles. If he lost, it’d be the predictable outcome but if he won it’d seem ridiculous because he’s not into battle and thus doesn’t train his Pokémon fir it while Iris is a battler.If this is real I wouldn't mind if Iris battles Goh instead of Ash since Ash and Iris already battled a few times in Unova and I would rather see Iris stomp Goh.
We need to consider that if this episode is real, Iris is actively looking for PWC challengers, which is supposed to be a much more battle heavy goal (JN's terrible handling of it aside). Which indicates she needs to train a lot more now,May has a much more battle active goal than Iris does and even that didn't make her Bulbasaur evolving into Venusaur any less jarring or a stretch. It would be even worse with how Axew was handled in BW. Doubling down and actually training Axew off-screen to evolve it into a Haxorus when it spent the bulk of BW in Iris' hair would be a big stretch.
Out of curiosity, why not? Because that’s the logic I’m using. Friends and people change and mature. And seeing that Ash has collected quite a few fully evolved Pokemon in the same amount of time it’s not a stretch for Iris to raise one she already had.I don't think the comparison to real life situations fits here,
I would like to see a battle between the two where there’s no boundaries, and their actual full strength is displayed for once. But, seeing Goh getting stomped would be nice, and totally needed for his development.
And against Kiawe. The idea is that he’s never been challenged and actually shown through a progressive development from those losses, he’s just got better...with no sign of progression. That’s what I want to see with Iris, where she taunts him, then obliterates him to make him actually experience some issues.You know that Goh has been stomped in the past (like his first battle), right?
That isn't a new thing.
We need to consider that if this episode is real, Iris is actively looking for PWC challengers, which is supposed to be a much more battle heavy goal (JN's terrible handling of it aside). Which indicates she needs to train a lot more now,
PkmnTrainerV said:Out of curiosity, why not? Because that’s the logic I’m using. Friends and people change and mature. And seeing that Ash has collected quite a few fully evolved Pokemon in the same amount of time it’s not a stretch for Iris to raise one she already had.
1. It doesn't need to feel believable.
2. She lost to Drayden and Clair. It is not a stretch for her to use the PWC as an opportunity to face several gym leaders all over the world (or around Johto) so that she can upstage her mentors. What was she supposed to do during three series?
Silktree said:4. There's a double standard here where a Galar gym leader or a COTD can be arbitrarily strong (why is Bea special again?), but Iris isn't allowed to get off-screen development.
I mean, after their travels together, Ash got Talonflame, Greninja, Goodra, Noivern, Lycanroc, Incineroar, Melmetal, Naganadel, Dragonite, Lucario and now Sirfetch'd and fully evolved all of them. I honestly don't think it's an stretch to say it's very possible for Iris to have an Fraxure/Haxorus and/or an Gabite/Garchomp at this point. Now, if the evolutions were ''earned'' or not considering the way that Axew was handled and that Gible showed up at the last minute is a whole other story and a whole other debate too.
But in all honesty, I will be disappointed if she didn't caught or evolved anything else after leaving on her own after BW. Even if we count just Dragons in Unova, there's still Hydreigon, Druddigon, Altaria, Flygon...
Enzo said:She could even have other Dragons like Goodra, Salamance, Kommo-o, etc from other regions. Idk guys, is just that the idea of seeing Iris with not a single update to her team would be... weird and honestly disappointing to say the least. I want to have the real feeling that she did evolved as a trainer.
It's "Fraxure".Fraxture
I like to think about the “tell-not-show” from Iris’s perspective as well. Ash winning the Alola league, plus winning a 6v6 exhibition including Tapu Koko in the process, seems pretty “Deux Ex Machina” when compared to Ash’s accomplishments throughout the Best Wishes series. But Ash’s Alola league run still happened regardless, and all of that happened off-screen from Iris’s perspective. That’s why I don’t like to discredit potential accomplishments any characters went through, no matter how ridiculous they may seem. Because if I were Iris and saw Ash place 7th against someone who only brings 5 Pokémon to a 6v6, I wouldn’t really imagine that Ash would eventually place 1st, then beat six Pokémon successfully, including a legendary.rule of thumb: off-screen development is only okay if on-screen development outweighs it. none of deus ex machina or 'tell-not-show' involved
certainly not the case for Axew hence it feeling cheap to be final stage already.
I’d rather that returning character battles not be wasted on the guy who has near zero interest in Pokémon battles. If he lost, it’d be the predictable outcome but if he won it’d seem ridiculous because he’s not into battle and thus doesn’t train his Pokémon fir it while Iris is a battler.
Because really, what development would even come from Go losing in a trainer battle considering that it’s neither an important focus for him nor any part of his goal. Heck, he doesn’t even go out of his way to battle just for fun where there are no stakes especially compared to previous cast members who may have done certain activities that were outside their wheelhouse. As such, there’s really nothing there to get invested in when they put Go into a trainer battle situation in the first place and so it ends up feeling like a waste especially in a series that has reduced basically everything into a one-shot.He would most likely lose but even if the loss doesn't affect Goh how would that be a bad thing exactly? Would people still be saying this if Ash were fighting in Goh's place and he ends up losing to Iris instead? Because I can already predict that there would be a ton of salt if Ash does lose and Iris will once again become a punching bag.
I mean, it’s not that hard to imagine Iris vigorously training Axew and her other Pokémon to some day defeat Drayden and Clair while Ash lounges around and battles rarely to obtain an Incineroar.I still think Ash usually having more battle active goals than Iris did is a big difference.