Controversial opinions

[Jewel the Quaxly]

im sure this isnt controversial but the fact that pokemon showcases are judged by the audience and not judges, thus making it a popularity contest, is one of the reasons why showcases fall really flat in comparison to contests. i also think contests are just more interesting with how theyre set up and incorporate battles, the point system allowing for some crazy twisted rules on the standard battle formula by encouraging off the walls combinations and strageties....... much more fun to watch in comparison to "la la la im dancing with my pokemon im so cute and sparkly" and dont get me started on how i feel the entire concept of pokemon showcases is extremely sexist...... making only girls play dress up and bake like typical housewives??? yuck

Frankly, I feel as if you're exaggerating a tad, but I agree with most of your points. Pokemon performances actually have a lot of skills required, as seen throughout the show, especially when it was PHYSICALLY TAXING on Serena...yet despite the amount of skills and standards set-yes, some can consider this to be sexist, making it an even MORE tough competition as well-it really just dubs down to preferences of the audience. I mean, it makes sense in hindsight, since the overarching theme was that performers are there to make people smile...but I feel like there were better ways to approach Serena's actual goal.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Another thing that doesn't help the case of Showcases in the sexism department is that Tierno's dancing goal would have been perfectly suited for Showcases, but since the writers decided those should be girl-only, Tierno doesn't get to participate in them. Because Arceus forbid boys be into girly stuff. Just saying, Ash and Serena should have swapped rivals, as in, Shaunda should have been Ash's rival and Tierno should have been Serena's. Ash should get at least one competent girl rival for once.

 

[Galactic_V]

Another thing that doesn't help the case of Showcases in the sexism department is that Tierno's dancing goal would have been perfectly suited for Showcases, but since the writers decided those should be girl-only, Tierno doesn't get to participate in them. Because Arceus forbid boys be into girly stuff. Just saying, Ash and Serena should have swapped rivals. Ash should get at least one competent girl rival for once.

I agree and understand about this sexism part, but I believe there was a strong reason for the TriPokalon to be girls-only: they were simulating those overly popular Japanese teenage idols, which are in most part females (the most famous ones at least). There were several throwbacks to your average idol show during the competitions as well (that light stick the public use to decide the TriPokalon winner, for instance, comes straight from idol presentations).

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Another thing that doesn't help the case of Showcases in the sexism department is that Tierno's dancing goal would have been perfectly suited for Showcases, but since the writers decided those should be girl-only, Tierno doesn't get to participate in them. Because Arceus forbid boys be into girly stuff. Just saying, Ash and Serena should have swapped rivals, as in, Shaunda should have been Ash's rival and Tierno should have been Serena's. Ash should get at least one competent girl rival for once.

Showcases also had the weakness of being introduced mid-series, instead of at the beginning, like Contests were for May and Dawn.

Also, speaking of Shauna, I actually preferred her game version's personality to her anime version's girly-girl personality.

 

[skiittylalis]

but I feel like there were better ways to approach Serena's actual goal.

oh absolutely, like maybe planning it from the start instead of waiting an entire year to make something up because only then did the writers notice serena had been a cute background fixture with no goal....... showcases were clearly rushed and im baffled why they didnt just reuse contests because 1) the formula was proven to work as we saw in ag/dp and 2) xy was FULL of oras cross promotion and it wouldve made perfect sense to promote oras

if serenas goal is to make people smile, a better way to handle that would be showing her doing so off the stage as well....... like maybe helping people she comes across, inspiring people, and making more friends that enjoy her company...... it would make the goal a lot more believable imo

 

[FluffleFi]

if serenas goal is to make people smile, a better way to handle that would be showing her doing so off the stage as well....... like maybe helping people she comes across, inspiring people, and making more friends that enjoy her company...... it would make the goal a lot more believable imo

This right here would have made a lot of the filler in the XY series worth it. How do you make people smile and wanna support you? Helping them with their problems and such. What does Ash and Co. do around the region? Help everyone they come across. From Gym Leader, Champion, store owners, random trainers and even the police. Serena helped out a ton of people around Kalos, but unfortunately filler almost never plays into the grand scheme of things.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Also, speaking of Shauna, I actually preferred her game version's personality to her anime version's girly-girl personality.

I understand having different opinions, but I hope your reasoning for preferring her game counterpart isn't just because she's too much of a "girly girl".

if serenas goal is to make people smile, a better way to handle that would be showing her doing so off the stage as well....... like maybe helping people she comes across, inspiring people, and making more friends that enjoy her company...... it would make the goal a lot more believable imo

That wasn't actually her goal though, she still didn't know what her true goal was even while doing contests. Thus, the existence of Palermo. But yeah, there was definately better ways to do it, like towards the end of XY, the performance she did with Shauna and Jessie was the truest form of her goals throughout the entire series-THAT showcased her character development-NOT the FREAKING KISS. Her taking the initiative to MAKE PEOPLE SMILE in a city that was RECOVERING and currently undergoing DISASTER RELIEF is a sign of her development, not the goddamn kiss. Serena was actually somewhat selfish in the beginning, only making cookies for Ash-clearly she just wants to be friends-and ignoring Clemont and Bonnie to actually being Ash's friend, forming a close relationship with Bonnie, and caring for Clemont as well-though it isn't shown as much...and now? She's doing something she loves for OTHER people-THIS WAS HER DEVELOPMENT. I swear, if I hear one more person comment on how the kiss of all things showcased her development, you're practically admitting that Amourshipping is all there is to Serena's character! On that note, why are all Serena fans Amourshippers??? Do they not realize Amourshipping is the center for common criticisms against Serena, and that their attempts at "defending" her only make it worse? This further attributes to amourshipping being all there is to her character, which makes it frustrating for people like me who genuinely really like/love Serena but can't properly express it because every time you say something positive about her someone pretty much gotta say 'oh yay amourshipper!'. Just...the goal itself was not created properly and made no sense in hindsight, but her development REGARDING that goal was well done...yet it is ignored. WHY POKEANI FANDOM WHY???!!!

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Another thing that doesn't help the case of Showcases in the sexism department is that Tierno's dancing goal would have been perfectly suited for Showcases, but since the writers decided those should be girl-only, Tierno doesn't get to participate in them. Because Arceus forbid boys be into girly stuff. Just saying, Ash and Serena should have swapped rivals, as in, Shaunda should have been Ash's rival and Tierno should have been Serena's. Ash should get at least one competent girl rival for once.

Showcases also had the weakness of being introduced mid-series, instead of at the beginning, like Contests were for May and Dawn.

Also, speaking of Shauna, I actually preferred her game version's personality to her anime version's girly-girl personality.

Oh, and continuing on that: the Showcase talent rounds (or whatever they were called, I forgot) were pretty much rigged to be in Serena's favor: Poké Puff baking and Rhyhorn herding. There's also the fact that Contests require five wins to get to the major competition, while Showcases only required three, just emphasizing how last-minute this goal felt like compared to Contests.

Also, again referring to Shauna, did you notice that the performances we saw from her were pretty repetitive in their similarity?

I understand having different opinions, but I hope your reasoning for preferring her game counterpart isn't just because she's too much of a "girly girl".

I just thought her gushing over girly stuff in Showcases was kinda annoying compared to her game counterpart's personality, which I had come to know. I'm also not a fan of her Pokémon Adventures personality, in fact.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

I just thought her gushing over girly stuff in Showcases was kinda annoying compared to her game counterpart's personality, which I had come to know. I'm also not a fan of her Pokémon Adventures personality, in fact.

What is she like in Adventures?

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

What is she like in Adventures?

I don't know how exactly to put it into words, but I the best way I know to put it is that she's a lot less cheerful and even kinda pessimistic at times. She also wants to be a Furfrou stylist, which is a perfectly fine career choice, but I still much prefer her game version's goal of making memories. The X & Y chapter overall is amongst my least favorite chapters in the manga.

 

[Enzo]

Another thing that doesn't help the case of Showcases in the sexism department is that Tierno's dancing goal would have been perfectly suited for Showcases, but since the writers decided those should be girl-only, Tierno doesn't get to participate in them. Because Arceus forbid boys be into girly stuff. Just saying, Ash and Serena should have swapped rivals, as in, Shaunda should have been Ash's rival and Tierno should have been Serena's. Ash should get at least one competent girl rival for once.

Also, I hate the fact that both of them basically got no weight in the narrative whatsover. Granted, Tierno was Ash's rival before Alain and Sawyer, and Shauna was the one to push Serena towards the Showcases, but I still wish we could've gotten more out of them. Ash and Tierno didn't even battled at the League. I get that it was more to show Sawyer off, but gosh, they are still such wasted characters, specially if they were swapped like you said.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Showcases were basically Pokémon Musicals from the BW games. Weirdest thing about Showcases is how they never adressed why there is no boys in it and why there is no Kalos King. Competitions were weird too: Taming some Rhyhorns, a pokémon knowledge quiz, baking competition, a catwalk with your pokémon, etc. They all seems pretty random and had nothing to do with dancing.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Wanna know what? I will give an example of what I mean by that:

In her last Contest before the Grand Festival, in DP162, Dawn's Pokemon got trapped by Plusle and Minun's Encore, and while making Mamoswine and Cyndaquil attack each other to break the Encore, Dawn got punished and almost lost. And Kenny, in DP172, didn't made it past the Appeal Round because while, yes, his combo didn't worked out, it was more because his Empoleon hurt his own Floatzel with Flash Cannon. So what can we take from this? Hurting your own Pokémon in an Contest Battle is very bad, correct?

Then in DP177, she made her Glameow use Thunderbolt on her own Gallade. And you cannot even argue that he wasn't hurt by that: you can clearly see and hear her Gallade screaming in pain. And yet, she didn't lost points there. Like, what? If Dawn alredy lost so many points in a regular Contest, Zoey should've lost even more by doing that in the finals of the Grand Festival, which is so unfair tbh.

I didn't think that the problem was that hurting your Pokemon in a Contest is bad, especially with Kenny's performance. When his Empoleon hurt Floatzel, I thought that the issue was that it clearly ruined their performance routine rather than simply hurting Floatzel. Glameow's Thunderbolt on Gallade definitely did hurt it, but the difference was that it was part of Zoey's combination instead of a mistake, so that wouldn't be treated the same way. To be fair, they probably shouldn't have penalized Dawn for using her Pokemon's attacks to break out of Plusle and Minun's Encore since it was a creative strategy instead of a mistake too. As much as I love and dearly miss Contests, the point system in both AG and DP was kind of annoying and inconsistent at times too.

As for Zoey herself, I don't think she was a Mary Sue either. I'm not surprised that she is considered as such or close to being a Mary Sue. I still forget that she was basically a rookie when she met Dawn too. She always felt like more like a mentor figure for Dawn instead of a more traditional rival, but I think that generally worked. I think that gave them a genuine friendship and it was a nice contrast to the more confrontational rivalry between Ash and Paul. Still, the fact that she lost a couple of times and was too judgmental towards those doing both Gyms and Contests at first shows that she wasn't perfect.

I do think that Zoey deserved to win the Grand Festival though. Every time I rewatch the Sinnoh Grand Festival, I'm still impressed with Zoey's skills and performances. Dawn was good and deserved to get that far as well, but Zoey was always at least one or two moves ahead of Dawn. I don't think that Dawn was ready to be a Top Coordinator based on that battle, while I think Zoey was. It probably helps that I wasn't expecting Dawn to beat Zoey when that wasn't what their rivalry was building up to. They always talked about meeting up again in the final round, not for Dawn to defeat Zoey. I guess that it would be implied, but given their more friendly rivalry, I didn't get that impression at least.

oh absolutely, like maybe planning it from the start instead of waiting an entire year to make something up because only then did the writers notice serena had been a cute background fixture with no goal....... showcases were clearly rushed and im baffled why they didnt just reuse contests because 1) the formula was proven to work as we saw in ag/dp and 2) xy was FULL of oras cross promotion and it wouldve made perfect sense to promote oras

I wouldn't say that Serena became a background fixture during the first year. Not having a goal for that long certainly didn't help matters, but background fixture might be a bit too much of an exaggeration for my tastes. I also don't recall XY having that much OR/AS cross promotion. Outside of the second Mega Evolution special and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile, OR/AS promotion felt pretty minimal, especially compared to the other remakes. I would have greatly preferred for Contests to return too, but I think that it wouldn't have worked. OR/AS wasn't marketing relevant until XY's second year and that was way too late to start a Contest arc. I'm sure that's a big reason why Showcases only required three Princess Keys since they had little time to work on it. This is also why Sawyer didn't appear until Ash got his sixth badge. Given the impact he'd have in the later portions of XY, I still think he should have been introduced much sooner, but they wouldn't have been promoting Treecko and teasing Mega Sceptitle until OR/AS came out, so I think that their hands were tied marketing wise.

I still would have greatly preferred Contests if they had been able to introduce them sooner. Showcases were just incredibly boring. If Serena's character moments and development weren't as effective to me, they would have been even more of a chore to sit through. With the Island Challenge and the PWC in mind, I'm less sure about Showcases being the worst goal introduced in the anime, but it is still the most boring goal to me at least. They always tried to make it sound like a big deal to get three Princess keys and get to the final stage when it was just a popularity contest. There just wasn't anything really interesting or challenging about Showcases to make them compelling or engaging to watch.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I still would have greatly preferred Contests if they had been able to introduce them sooner. Showcases were just incredibly boring. If Serena's character moments and development weren't as effective to me, they would have been even more of a chore to sit through. With the Island Challenge and the PWC in mind, I'm less sure about Showcases being the worst goal introduced in the anime, but it is still the most boring goal to me at least. They always tried to make it sound like a big deal to get three Princess keys and get to the final stage when it was just a popularity contest. There just wasn't anything really interesting or challenging about Showcases to make them compelling or engaging to watch.

Especially when you consider how the only interesting part of the contests-the actual PERFORMING-is barely shown at times(in place we get these weird rounds of...other stuff...that are completely irrelevant to one's performance abilities...yet they have judges for those things)and it really does just go down to what the audience thinks. Again, on one hand, this makes sense. But on the other, it just feels rigged in Aria's favor from the very beginning.

 

[Alola]

Wanna know what? I will give an example of what I mean by that:

In her last Contest before the Grand Festival, in DP162, Dawn's Pokemon got trapped by Plusle and Minun's Encore, and while making Mamoswine and Cyndaquil attack each other to break the Encore, Dawn got punished and almost lost. And Kenny, in DP172, didn't made it past the Appeal Round because while, yes, his combo didn't worked out, it was more because his Empoleon hurt his own Floatzel with Flash Cannon. So what can we take from this? Hurting your own Pokémon in an Contest Battle is very bad, correct?

Then in DP177, she made her Glameow use Thunderbolt on her own Gallade. And you cannot even argue that he wasn't hurt by that: you can clearly see and hear her Gallade screaming in pain. And yet, she didn't lost points there. Like, what? If Dawn alredy lost so many points in a regular Contest, Zoey should've lost even more by doing that in the finals of the Grand Festival, which is so unfair tbh.

The Kenny situation was a bit different though. Yes, Empoleon's Flash Cannon resulted in Floatzel being damaged, but I felt his loss was due to the two Pokémon (and by extent, their Trainer) not being in sync; Flash Cannon overpowered Whirlpool, which was something that shouldn't happen in an Appeal Round, let alone for the Grand Festival. Even if Floatzel was not blown away, I feel the result would have been the same.

I think you raise a good point about the second comparison, though. All I got is that the difference between the two lies in the intentionality:

• Dawn commanded Cyndaquil and Mamoswine to attack each other to hasten the turns of Encore, rather than trying to adapt to her situation and bring out the best of those moves in her Pokémon by battling Ursula regularly. I think it would have been more impressive and would have looked better, rather than having her Pokémon damage each other unnecessarily; that's probably why she explicitly lost points.
• Zoey's Thunderbolt and Psycho Cut combo was clearly intentional as there was no surprise or hesitation when Zoey called for it, unlike Cyndaquil and Mamoswine who were shocked to be ordered to hurt each other; Gallade needed to serve as a point-blank conduit for the combination to be pulled off. It also wasn't taking as much damage or being in pain as long as Cyndaquil and Mamoswine were to each other.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Alain is also pretty much a Gary Stu. He really would've deserved to lose at some point to show how his quest for power had consumed him and become and unhealthy obsession for him.

Here’s a controversial opinion: Alain is overpowered, but he is NOT a Gary Stu. A Gary Stu is a character who’s perfect, who never faces any consequences for his actions, and has a smooth sailing. This is definitely not true for Alain. He is hurt for Mairin losing Chespie, he loses to Siebold and he faces consequences for his actions after the league thanks to what Lysandre did and he gives up his Mega Ring and Charizardite X.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

• Solidad was definitely a Mary Sue. She was kinda like May's Tobias: an unstoppable and overly flawless wall to stop her progress once they had managed to defeat their rival.

At least she didn't use a Darkrai and a Latios

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

At least she didn't use a Darkrai and a Latios

True. But she still win almost flawlessly and mostly off-screen.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Here’s a controversial opinion: Alain is overpowered, but he is NOT a Gary Stu. A Gary Stu is a character who’s perfect, who never faces any consequences for his actions, and has a smooth sailing. This is definitely not true for Alain. He is hurt for Mairin losing Chespie, he loses to Siebold and he faces consequences for his actions after the league thanks to what Lysandre did and he gives up his Mega Ring and Charizardite X.

I thought that he chose to give up his Mega Ring and Charizardite X after the Team Flare arc. If that is the case, then I'm not sure if that would really count as facing consequences for his actions. Feeling hurt and upset for Mairin losing Chespie isn't really a flaw either. It was more like motivation for him and showed that he did care about Mairin despite being initially stand off-ish with her. I've never heard of the smooth sailing part of the definition of a Gary Stu either. Alain did lose to Siebold, but I don't think that really changes things either. His only on-screen defeat was against an Elite 4 member and then he was eventually shown to defeat another Elite 4 member after defeating multiple other opponents in a row. One on-screen defeat against an Elite 4 member doesn't really balance out with how he was practically unbeatable throughout the rest of XY, so I think he would still fit the bill of a Gary Stu.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I thought that he chose to give up his Mega Ring and Charizardite X after the Team Flare arc. If that is the case, then I'm not sure if that would really count as facing consequences for his actions. Feeling hurt and upset for Mairin losing Chespie isn't really a flaw either. It was more like motivation for him and showed that he did care about Mairin despite being initially stand off-ish with her. I've never heard of the smooth sailing part of the definition of a Gary Stu either. Alain did lose to Siebold, but I don't think that really changes things either. His only on-screen defeat was against an Elite 4 member and then he was eventually shown to defeat another Elite 4 member after defeating multiple other opponents in a row. One on-screen defeat against an Elite 4 member doesn't really balance out with how he was practically unbeatable throughout the rest of XY, so I think he would still fit the bill of a Gary Stu.

A Stu or a Sue is basically someone that bends the plot or have the story revolve around them basically, hense the sub-definitions of "smooth sailing" or "no flaws" or "no consequences" etc.