BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Bolt Strike]

Secret Bases don't have decorations and Capture the Flag anymore (sadly), but they now have Pokemon Statues, which I think is a fair trade, since they allow me to design my very own Dragon Chamber, filled exclusively with my favourite Dragon Pokemon Statues.

Wouldn't it be better for your Dragon Chamber to have Dragon themed decorations like banners, rugs, etc. instead of just Pokemon Statues though?

BDSP has a much larger selection of available Pokemon, though. I'm pretty sure that between the two versions it'll be possible to catch all 493 Pokemon of Gen IV, whereas in HGSS quite a few of them had to be traded from DPPt.

There were already 451 Pokemon available between DPPt though, the only ones that were really missing were some of the past gen starters and legendaries. Compare that to GSC, where there were only 251 Pokemon in the originals but HGSS added a ton of 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon to bring it up to 451. So 200 Pokemon were added to HGSS, but if you only have the first 493 you're looking at only 42 added to BDSP. Pretty stark difference there. Having all 493 that existed in 4th gen isn't much of an accomplishment when the originals were already pretty close to that point that to begin with.

I think perhaps it's true that more effort was put into HGSS, simply because there were more things that needed improving. For example, there wasn't really much of a story in GSC, so they added the new scenes with the Kimono Girls to bring the game up to modern Pokemon standards. They included the Kanto dungeons which were originally left out due to limited space on the cartridge, and added a minigame (the Pokethlon) because Johto originally lacked one.

DPPt, on the other hand, were pretty much perfect apart from the slow animations, HMs, limited Pokemon selection (in DP), and the fact that the Underground was (in my opinion) a bit boring. So remaking these games required less effort. That doesn't necessarily mean that the end result will be less good.

I suppose what it really boils down to is what do you value more: innovation, or overall quality. A lot of people would have preferred a remake with more significant changes (like the brilliant ORAS) so that exploring the same region again feels more worthwhile, and I can understand that. But for me personally, I'm happy as long as the game is of a good quality overall, even if most of that quality owes itself to the groundwork laid by the original version of the game.

I'm really looking forward to playing what is essentially classic Pokemon on the Switch; the first entry of the 3D era not to rely on flashy new forms or battle gimmicks.

While I do agree that DPPt (especially Platinum) were near perfect for their time, part of the problem is that advancements in the series that occur in between the originals and the remake can cause the remakes to look worse than it used to be. Now in some ways they've done a good job of that with some of the QoL features, they have kept up with advancements such as the removal of HMs, customization. But in other, and especially larger aspects such as graphics and artstyle, Pokemon selection, and new forms, they're still lacking.

The other problem is that Game Freak seems to be less willing to make the remakes definitive experiences. HGSS included almost everything from Crystal (the only content missing was the Odd Egg). ORAS and BDSP largely ignore their third version content, only really including small Easter Eggs at best. The reason this is important is because the whole point of a remake is because the originals and the hardware they were on has long been discontinued and rendered largely inaccessible, so if you want to experience that content, then you're either forced to dig out your old third version if you have one, or shell out hundreds of dollars on Ebay if you don't. This can almost defeat the point of a remake since they're meant to replace the originals.

For me to be satisfied with these games as remakes I wanted to see more along the lines of the following:

• Full Platinum Dex (not just shoving them into Hideaways) with the added Pokemon being fully accessible through conventional means and showing up in main game trainer rosters (no using DP's in the main game and Platinum's in the post game)
• Platinum story elements such as Looker and Charon, Giratina and the Distortion World playing some role in the story (either by integrating it into the main story or having a Platinum episode of some sort)
• New forms of some Sinnoh Pokemon, especially Dialga/Palkia
• Alola/Galar variants
• Sylveon and possibly Mr. Rime added to the Sinnoh Dex and a selection of 5th-8th gen Pokemon added to the post game.
• Fully functional Contests that include actual battling, not just a dumb rhythm minigame
• Fully functional Secret Bases in the Grand Underground that allow you to decorate with more than just statues.

Also not really dealbreakers, but these improvements would've been very welcome as well:

• An even larger expansion from the Platinum Dex to even further balance the Dex (they could've just thrown in a few more 1st-3rd gen Pokemon and this would be fine)
• New Sinnohan variants of non-native Pokemon
• Mega evolutions
• Dexnav functionality for the Pokeradar (as in the ability to search for HAs, IVs, natures, etc. instead of having to catch them and check).

I think there's a difference between preferring something (which is personal opinion of course) and saying out right something is an improvement.
An improvement implies something objective.

Someone can say they prefer the old style nostalgia graphics of Gen 1 for sure, but they can't really say the graphics in RBY VC were an improvement on FRLG, for example, as that's demonstrably untrue.

No, an improvement implies that there's a positive comparison in some aspect. It can be subjective if you like or don't like the aspect they've improved. It especially becomes subjective if they improve one aspect and regress another, as is the case with the Underground for example (do you like the decoration of the originals or the Pokemon encounters of BDSP? Different people might have different answers to that question and they're all equally right).

 

[Boss1708]

Wouldn't it be better for your Dragon Chamber to have Dragon themed decorations like banners, rugs, etc. instead of just Pokemon Statues though?

That would've probably been better, yes. But like I said, I think it is a "fair trade" between decorations and Statues, if we can't have both.

 

[Oriden]

That would've probably been better, yes. But like I said, I think it is a "fair trade" between decorations and Statues, if we can't have both.

We really should be able to have both, though... aside from them just not taking time to make the decoration models, there's no reason why we shouldn't have had both.

The statues look like they're pretty much just recolors of the pokemon models too so that's a big lazy ouch there.

 

[Boss1708]

We really should be able to have both, though... aside from them just not taking time to make the decoration models, there's no reason why we shouldn't have had both.

The statues look like they're pretty much just recolors of the pokemon models too so that's a big lazy ouch there.

I respect your opinion, and I agree that it would've been awesome to have both the old-school decorations AND the new statues.

But that wasn't my point. My point is that the Decorations and the Statues are both cool, and so, what ILCA did is a fair trade, in my opinion.

I also don't think the removal of old-school decorations had anything to do with laziness. I think they just wanted to repurpose the Underground Secret Bases and make them more integrated into the whole Underground structure, especially with the new Hideaways.

I do miss the decorations. Making a Secret Base, was one of my favorite things to do in both Emerald and ORAS (I actually never tried it in DPPt). But I think I will enjoy decorating with the Statues just as much.

 

[Oriden]

I respect your opinion, and I agree that it would've been awesome to have both the old-school decorations AND the new statues.

But that wasn't my point. My point is that the Decorations and the Statues are both cool, and so, what ILCA did is a fair trade, in my opinion.

I also don't think the removal of old-school decorations had anything to do with laziness. I think they just wanted to repurpose the Underground Secret Bases and make them more integrated into the whole Underground structure, especially with the Hideaways.

My point, though, was that we should've had both. Statues are great and all but how many can you actually activate at a time? Why not have furniture and statues? Why did it wind up being one or the other? I won't say that the statues aren't cool, I just think it should have been in addition to furniture, not instead of it. Now bases just look like boring statue storage rather than a personalized space.

And by lazy I meant the fact that instead of decorations, all we got were pokemon model recolors. There's not even bases on a lot of these-

 

[colours]

Hi, official staff post. Keep the drama out of this thread. Opinions will always be opinions and while it's fine to debate them, keep it respectful. Thank you.

 

[silurica]

Yeah, I also feel statues being basically recolor of various Pokemon models is soulless. ("Lazy" I feel is kind of derogatory, they clearly put in a ton of effort into the Hideaways.) I won't get the same enjoyment from samey statues as from a varied decoration selection.

I think if we had both Hideaway control room and proper secret base decorating I'd be pretty happy to bring BDSP to the same level of Platinum, but since we didn't and secret base is (if it's not already obvious) a feature I care about a lot, BDSP will sit somewhere in the middle between original DP and Platinum in term of my favorite Sinnoh iteration.

It's technically something I can live without, but heck, I care.

 

[zoroarctic]

XD This is the second time I've seen it happen and it's becoming my favorite thing about BDSP, haha.

I’m kind of surprised it’s only 2 after almost 9 months.

 

[Alola]

I mean, it's a somewhat common practice to include parts of a game in the day 1 patch, so is it really that bad, especially considering you shouldn't be able to play the game until launch?

Something else you should consider though is that you need the internet for that patch. Not everyone has or will have access to that, and will end up stuck with unfinished games for a 60 dollar w/ tax price tag; people who buy or acquire the games far in the future when Switch services are no longer available can be stuck with said unfinished versions indefinitely (provided they don't start selling physical copies programmed with the patches already).

Common practice or no, I find it disappointing and slightly insulting. Especially when previous Pokémon games never had that issue. I purchased Platinum, Emerald, Crystal, Black 2, SS, etc. confidently knowing I had a complete game(s) upon getting those receipts.

 

[prog rocker]

Something else you should consider though is that you need the internet for that patch. Not everyone has or will have access to that, and will end up stuck with unfinished games for a 60 dollar w/ tax price tag; people who buy or acquire the games far in the future when Switch services are no longer available can be stuck with said unfinished versions indefinitely (provided they don't start selling physical copies programmed with the patches already).

Common practice or no, I find it disappointing and slightly insulting. Especially when previous Pokémon games never had that issue. I purchased Platinum, Emerald, Crystal, Black 2, SS, etc. confidently knowing I had a complete game(s) upon getting those receipts.

Well, the third versions were more or less full priced patches...

 

[Alola]

You can still catch all the Mons in the Platinum Dex before the E4, albeit in the Grand Underground, so that does expand the Dex to more desirable levels and doesn't limit your Fire-types to just the Chimchar and Ponyta lines.

For the sake of clarification, you actually cannot catch all of the Platinum additions before the Elite Four. Sadly.

Spoiler: Postgame Platinum Additions

Rotom, Nosepass, Eevee, Tangela, Yanma, Tropius and Porygon (and their evos). Also, the Razor Fang seems to be post game too, meaning no Gliscor during the main playthrough.

Well, the third versions were more or less full priced patches...

While the original versions weren't lacking title screens, a complete original soundtrack, local communication features, & wifi connectivity.

I'm not talking about new features found in third versions to spice up gameplay like the Battle Frontier or Move Tutors. Again, I'm referring to an unfinished, not unoptimized, game being released for sale.

 

[Oriden]

Well, the third versions were more or less full priced patches...

At least you got the full game with those. And it wasn't a bad buy if you never got the first versions.

 

[Kallyle]

I’m kind of surprised it’s only 2 after almost 9 months.

It was all over Reddit. XD

 

[Dahara]

The thing which has become most clear to me is that GameFreak's mistake wasn't allowing a nostalgic chibi artstyle in the remakes, it was attempting to do this in modern 3D graphics in the first place. You end up pleasing almost nobody going in half-assed in this manner. Instead, imagine they hired a studio capable of detailed pixel art on a budget. All the added content people wanted would have been much easier to include. You also could legitimately sell the game as a throwback to the classics and the critics who want to appear cultured would have eaten it up. Obviously some people would still have been greatly disappointed, but you can't please everyone having a very specific vision of the game you're making and this is fine too.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

First off: Yay! We managed to reach 3000 posts on this thread before the game release!

Second:

Deoxys would also be unaccounted for

Oh I forgot about that one... that seems like it would have to be some event distribution they'll have later, like another GameStop code thing. Can't think of how else they would handle it. Unless we're getting another Deoxys movie (woo)

Makes me curious if the Veilstone meteorites still serve the same purpose of changing Deoxys's form as before.

Third:

The thing which has become most clear to me is that GameFreak's mistake wasn't allowing a nostalgic chibi artstyle in the remakes, it was attempting to do this in modern 3D graphics in the first place. You end up pleasing almost nobody going in half-assed in this manner. Instead, imagine they hired a studio capable of detailed pixel art on a budget. All the added content people wanted would have been much easier to include. You also could legitimately sell the game as a throwback to the classics and the critics who want to appear cultured would have eaten it up. Obviously some people would still have been greatly disappointed, but you can't please everyone having a very specific vision of the game you're making and this is fine too.

It's an opinion. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are happy with this art style, regardless or even because of it.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It's an opinion.

…they didn’t say it wasn’t?

 

[FelipePR]

Firstly, I must start by saying that, for me, the Japan-based regions (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh) are, by default, superior to the non-Japan-based regions. I think Sinnoh in particular is one of the best designed and most exploration-heavy regions, and so this fact alone, already gives BDSP an advantage over recent Pokemon games that are set in more linear and less explorable regions.

Great post you made, which is worthy of all the attention. I only have one problem with it, which is precisely the first phrase reproduced above. To me it seems unreasonable, that is, too "nationalist" or "eugenic" by default.

A lot of people would have preferred a remake with more significant changes (like the brilliant ORAS) so that exploring the same region again feels more worthwhile, and I can understand that. But for me personally, I'm happy as long as the game is of a good quality overall, even if most of that quality owes itself to the groundwork laid by the original version of the game.

I'm really looking forward to playing what is essentially classic Pokemon on the Switch; the first entry of the 3D era not to rely on flashy new forms or battle gimmicks.

I don't know if I consider ORAS a remake so brilliant, although I liked them, just not as much as I expected. Well, the changes exist, but the most significant, for me, are visual and aesthetic elements, as well as mechanics inherited from later generations.

Of course, the game introduced the delta episode and delved even further into the unique aspects of the original games, like the Contests and secret bases, even adding new characters for this purpose, and mega-evolution.

But, on the other hand, the game ignored everything that had been introduced in the Emerald version, as well as the 3D setting left something to be desired. That is, the graphics were solid for the time, but ORAS didn't seem to have received the same aesthetic care and attention to detail that XY did, mainly on the overworld map. In ORAS, from the maps to the navigation, everything looks a little too square, not organic. The greatest example of this is Mauville City, which has been transformed into a huge square mall.

OBS: I know that ORAS has beautiful sceneries too, like the sceneries and gantries that precede each Elite Four, the art depicted in granite cave, the reinterpretation of Flannery's gym, between others. But there are many bland sceneries too.

Finally, I remember facing Tate and Lisa, the leaders of the seventh gym, and that each one only had a single Pokémon, as in the original Ruby and Sapphire version. At this point I turned off the game and went looking for a difficult version of Emerald. Lol.

OBS2: Sneak walk was cool, though.

 

[Boss1708]

Great post you made, which is worthy of all the attention. I only have one problem with it, which is precisely the first phrase reproduced above. To me it seems unreasonable, that is, too "nationalist" or "eugenic" by default.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my post!

As for why I prefer the 4 Japan-based regions: I don't prefer them due to nationalist or eugenics reasons (I'm not Japanese myself lol).

The reason why I prefer the Japan-based regions over the rest, is simply because I think they are much better designed. They have a lot more to explore, a lot more secrets to discover, and are a lot less linear, compared to everything that came after them (Unova, Kalos, Alola, Galar).

Once again, that's just my personal preference, though.

 

[Oriden]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my post!

As for the issue you have with it, you're wrong. I don't prefer the 4 Japanese regions due to nationalistic or eugenics reasons. I'm not Japanese myself lol.

The reason why I prefer the Japan-based regions over the non-Japan-based regions, is simply because I find them better designed. They have a lot more to explore, and are a lot less linear, compared to everything that came after them (Unova, Kalos, Alola, Galar).

I don't think that less linear trait is so much due to them being based on Japan, though. It's moreso a symptom of when they were made- those early regions had received some complaints about getting lost (I forget which one in particular but I think it was Kanto and likely Johto by extension), so over time they got increasingly more paranoid about people getting lost and took to the obnoxious handholding that we're all too familiar with.

Though to be fair, I actually have gotten lost in Sinnoh while trying to find the league so... maybe they just need road signs.

But one problem I think the non-Japanese regions do have is that they're very touristy. They're definitely made from a tourist's point of view, and suffer from the glorification and stereotypical portrayal that comes with that, whereas the Japanese regions, even in Legends, seem more down to earth and normal by comparison, like they're just being presented and not caricatured or over-glorified.

Japan is only so big, though, and the developers can only make the regions based on their own perspective, so I don't think the tourist vibe is really something we'll ultimately be able to avoid. Unless making pokemon games got passed around the world like hosting the Olympics, but that would be completely ridiculous and unrealistic. XD

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think there were complaints of children getting lost in the Sinnoh games, and BW tried to fix it… with the franchise aggressively heading towards the opposite direction. If we were to get a new Japanese region now; it’ll be just as linear as the recent ones, I’d bet.