Review JN090: Dialga & Palkia! The Space-Time Showdown!!

[Blob]

She was shown having her other Pokemon last episode though.

I agree though. The retcon of egg patterns to resemble Go's egg style more was pretty bad.

Oh huh, must have missed that.

I mean would it have been THAT difficult to look up egg designs of Pokémon we've already seen? Does that mean Ash's Pikachu has a unique egg now or something?

 

[Sai]

You know what would’ve been a better solution than prayer to summon Arceus? The Azure Flute. But that would’ve required more effort to introduce than the writers of Journeys are willing to put in.

I doubt someone like Cynthia or Rowan or whomever giving the protagonists a flute prior to the climax would have made a difference. They were battling in whatever time/space void Dialga/Palkia fight in, and hearing the prayers of the kids has the same effect. Just having Ash pull out the flute with Arceus doing...essentially the same exact thing, would not have made a difference. Also would find it kinda weird if a flute could just summon Arceus at any time anywhere (even if it's from the games) because then anyone can summon it who owns the flute for any reason. I mean either way the climax would be the same too.

Compared to the actual Galactic finale where Dialga/Palkia didn't even get through the portals completely in their own arc and Arceus was completely absent back then, this more or less gave us the conclusion those two should have gotten back in 2009.

 

[Unireon]

You know what would’ve been a better solution than prayer to summon Arceus? The Azure Flute. But that would’ve required more effort to introduce than the writers of Journeys are willing to put in.

The Heavenly Flute would have been an excellent way to bring Arceus, and make its intervention believable.
What I said about a three-parter, an additional episode dealing with The Original One's lore and searching for the flute.

If they actually wanted to avoid the DeM, not having Arceus fix everything.....
I would have preferred making Satoshi, his friends and the Pokemon, conquer Space-Time through willpower.
Undoing the regressions and resolving the plot themselves.

The other thing that annoyed me is the fact that Hikari was merely a resort to kick the plot off.
Once that role is fulfilled, she just loses all relevance and becomes generic.
And they didn't do anything interesting with her counterpart, to boot.

 

[Alola]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but the seemingly common sentiment of this being rushed isn't surprising. In two episodes, we had Dawn's return, Dialga & Palkia, altered versions of several main characters as well as their Pokémon (and the original characters themselves), Cynthia, and all of these aspects interacting in some manner. I've never been a fan of legendary Pokémon plots being constricted to two episodes (here's looking at Kyogre & Groudon); you would think they would have given it at least three episodes to pad things out better.

 

[Sai]

To be fair Cynthia isn't in this episode much (she doesn't speak)

 

[thomaswiencek]

What's up, guys. I'm just wanting to know what do you think has happened to all the alternate universal Team Rocket operatives and all their Pokémon upon their defeat, are they imprisoned, deceased or presumed deceased?

 

[Kurolegacy]

I doubt someone like Cynthia or Rowan or whomever giving the protagonists a flute prior to the climax would have made a difference. They were battling in whatever time/space void Dialga/Palkia fight in, and hearing the prayers of the kids has the same effect. Just having Ash pull out the flute with Arceus doing...essentially the same exact thing, would not have made a difference. Also would find it kinda weird if a flute could just summon Arceus at any time anywhere (even if it's from the games) because then anyone can summon it who owns the flute for any reason. I mean either way the climax would be the same too.

Compared to the actual Galactic finale where Dialga/Palkia didn't even get through the portals completely in their own arc and Arceus was completely absent back then, this more or less gave us the conclusion those two should have gotten back in 2009.

It makes a pretty big difference considering that the flute itself is designed to summon Arceus. As such, the summoning of Arceus would be what they were striving for from the get go rather than just a Deus ex Machina brought about by prayers to it. It’s literally the difference of comparing something that has an actual connection to Arceus to what amounts to an asspull. And by your own logic you gave with there being a problem with the flute, the prayers creates an even bigger issue as this essentially has that anyone can summon the God of Pokémon not with a mystical item that has a connection to it and is probably one of a kind but with prayers, something literally anyone can do.

 

[Unireon]

I actually enjoyed an episode of MEW where the characters are searching for the Flute of the Gods.
An artifact that could restore the realm they were on, that info was already given in a previous episode.
It was a really entertaining plot, with a nice balance between action and comedy.

This is what I would have liked for this Arc, an episode about Satoshi and friends searching for the Heavenly Flute.
Some kind of adventure, to obtain that Mystical Item and summon the Alpha Pokemon.
It could have appeared in the book that depicted Arceus as well.

But I can't see how their prayers are special enough to make Arceus appear to fix everything..... DeM at its finest.
DP dealt with the Dialga-Palkia crisis way better, because it took its time to establish the characters, elements and events.

 

[Sai]

It makes a pretty big difference considering that the flute itself is designed to summon Arceus. As such, the summoning of Arceus would be what they were striving for from the get go rather than just a Deus ex Machina brought about by prayers to it. It’s literally the difference of comparing something that has an actual connection to Arceus to what amounts to an asspull. And by your own logic you gave with there being a problem with the flute, the prayers creates an even bigger issue as this essentially has that anyone can summon the God of Pokémon not with a mystical item that has a connection to it and is probably one of a kind but with prayers, something literally anyone can do.

Yet the outcome would be the same. You're also basically rewriting this to be an arc about Arceus essentially turning it into another story. This arc was mostly about the AU counterparts and then the Pokémon de-evolving, it was never going to be about a quest about Arceus. As I mentioned, the gang praying to Arceus has been well established in canon and because they were in that weird space/time void where dialga/palkia were it made sense to hear their prayers and return them to normal.

The cast had already defeated TR and their minions so the conflict was already over. After they broke the red chain they just needed to find a way to turn back to normal. So praying to Arceus was fitting and I don't count it as DEM because TR were already defeated.

Only thing I did find odd about the ep is how much focus Go and Koharu got compared to Dawn. It's strange because the first part really did give Dawn a lot of screentime but the second half did not. I don't know if this will be Dawn's final return or not, but I hope she appears at least once more next year since she didn't really get a farewell in this episode.

 

[ii kanji]

First off, Mirror-TR actually had a good disguise. At least these writers can make some pretty clever jokes.

I forgot to say this was probably my favourite bit of the episode (plus Nyasu not being able to speak as his regression) as I also totally got tricked! I was literally wondering "Wow was Prof. Nanakamado always played by Miki and I never noticed or has his seiyuu died?" when AUMusashi's hair showed up and I twigged

 

[Twilight-Kun]

So when do we get the reveal that Go or Koharu accidentally took Hog or Chloe's pokemon?

Or rather, how would we know, given they'd have lost all their memories of this event thanks to Dialga pulling a Sonic 06?

 

[Craiden]

Alright, overall, like much of the arc, and I will agree with most that the first episode was probably better, but I can appreciate that the "DEM" here is literally prayer.

 

[VetProf]

So it seems that a key difference between Ash and AU Ash is that AU Ash actually uses his reserves since Infernape was his. Kinda feels like the writers are just teasing those of us that want to see Ash use his older Pokémon at this point.

Or maybe AU Ash is still travelling in Sinnoh, hence Infernape still being his ace. Considering how AU Ash reacted to Ash's Gengar, I think it's a fair assumption that he currently doesn't have a Gengar of his own, so he probably hasn't made it to Journey's part of the story yet.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Welp. Done with the episode.

It had a few cool moments, but I agree with the consensus that the resolution was extremely anticlimactic and cheesy. Especially since the action lasted a surprisingly short amount of times and the heroes got exactly two attempts at breaking the Red Chain before every Pokemon was hastily eggified. Most of the stuff that I liked came from tiny details such as alternate!Dawn's Buneary using Mega Punch; alternate!Chloe being much more confident, a tech genius, and even a tomboy (as shown by her use of the "boku" pronoun while main!Chloe uses "atashi"); alternate!Ash being implied to have his Sinnoh team rather than his Journeys one due to the use of Infernape and so on. Notice how literally none of that is plot-related. So yeah, this was unfortunately a weak and disappointing resolution to a genuinely fantastic setup...

Pokemon is now VeggieTales.
But in all seriousness, Pokemon is literally the last place I wanted to see Religious Propaganda in. I know they didn't actually do it to spread the word of JeSUS, they just did that because they didn't have enough runtime to make a good resolution, but it doesn't really make it any better.
I mean, prayer? Seriously?

It feels kinda weird to see you accusing this episode of being religious propaganda when we're talking about completely made up gods of a completely made up religion. This is far from the first time prayer has been used in Pokemon: in the games themselves, you Mega Evolve Rayquaza by praying to it. That's not religious propaganda so much as it's just plain old worldbuilding: after all, when you're making a fictional setting it makes sense that it'd come with at least a few fictional gods and religions. Also, why did you immediately assume that this was specifically Christian religious propaganda when this is a product from Japan, where Christianity is exceedingly rare, making it incredibly unlikely at best that there's anyone in the anime staff who practices it (and even if that was the case, it's highly unlikely that they'd be someone with any say on an episode's content)? You do know that prayer isn't a concept exclusive to or even invented by Christianity, right? Literally all religions pray to their gods.

 

[Audino1008]

Welp. Done with the episode.

It had a few cool moments, but I agree with the consensus that the resolution was extremely anticlimactic and cheesy. Especially since the action lasted a surprisingly short amount of times and the heroes got exactly two attempts at breaking the Red Chain before every Pokemon was hastily eggified. Most of the stuff that I liked came from tiny details such as alternate!Dawn's Buneary using Mega Punch; alternate!Chloe being much more confident, a tech genius, and even a tomboy (as shown by her use of the "boku" pronoun while main!Chloe uses "atashi"); alternate!Ash being implied to have his Sinnoh team rather than his Journeys one due to the use of Infernape and so on. Notice how literally none of that is plot-related. So yeah, this was unfortunately a weak and disappointing resolution to a genuinely fantastic setup...


It feels kinda weird to see you accusing this episode of being religious propaganda when we're talking about completely made up gods of a completely made up religion. This is far from the first time prayer has been used in Pokemon: in the games themselves, you Mega Evolve Rayquaza by praying to it. That's not religious propaganda so much as it's just plain old worldbuilding: after all, when you're making a fictional setting it makes sense that it'd come with at least a few fictional gods and religions. Also, why did you immediately assume that this was specifically Christian religious propaganda when this is a product from Japan, where Christianity is exceedingly rare, making it incredibly unlikely at best that there's anyone in the anime staff who practices it (and even if that was the case, it's highly unlikely that they'd be someone with any say on an episode's content)? You do know that prayer isn't a concept exclusive to or even invented by Christianity, right? Literally all religions pray to their gods.

I know, I was exaggerating, mostly for the VeggieTales joke.
And I'm Jewish, by the way. I only mentioned Jesus due to the dumb unrelated joke with the bolded letters.

Did you ignore the whole second half of what you quoted?

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I know, I was exaggerating, mostly for the VeggieTales joke.
And I'm Jewish, by the way. I only mentioned Jesus due to the dumb unrelated joke with the bolded letters.

Did you ignore the whole second half of what you quoted?

Sorry, it just didn't read to me as a joke due to the "in all seriousness" coming before the "Pokemon is the last place I wanted to see Religious Propaganda in". Re-reading it again with you saying it was a joke clears it up, it just wasn't obvious for me on the first reading. My bad.

 

[Audino1008]

Sorry, it just didn't read to me as a joke due to the "in all seriousness" coming before the "Pokemon is the last place I wanted to see Religious Propaganda in". Re-reading it again with you saying it was a joke clears it up, it just wasn't obvious for me on the first reading. My bad.

Well, I did make it pretty confusing with the "in all seriousness", but the "religious propoganda" part wasn't really exaggerated as a joke. I immediately retracted that atatement in the very next sentence, though, but most of that confusion is definitely on me. Just the part about Jesus (which led to you talking about how Christianity isn't the only religion with prayer) was a joke exaggeration.

 

[Singaporean]

Question now is: How the Crown Tundra arc potential can be much better than this and the darkest arc combine? Because, we know that Rose is out there and is planning something big and sinister.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Yet the outcome would be the same. You're also basically rewriting this to be an arc about Arceus essentially turning it into another story. This arc was mostly about the AU counterparts and then the Pokémon de-evolving, it was never going to be about a quest about Arceus. As I mentioned, the gang praying to Arceus has been well established in canon and because they were in that weird space/time void where dialga/palkia were it made sense to hear their prayers and return them to normal.

The cast had already defeated TR and their minions so the conflict was already over. After they broke the red chain they just needed to find a way to turn back to normal. So praying to Arceus was fitting and I don't count it as DEM because TR were already defeated.

Only thing I did find odd about the ep is how much focus Go and Koharu got compared to Dawn. It's strange because the first part really did give Dawn a lot of screentime but the second half did not. I don't know if this will be Dawn's final return or not, but I hope she appears at least once more next year since she didn't really get a farewell in this episode.

You say that as if that’s the only possible way in which the plot could have possibly played out and that there was no other way they could have used to bring Arceus in. Also, I’m gonna need a citation on just where it’s shown to be established canon about praying to Arceus because I neither remember this happening in the past nor is there even any mention of it in Arceus’ article on Bulbapedia.

And considering that this prayer aspect seems to be a widespread complaint, quite a few people don’t seem to share your sentiment that this wasn’t a Deus ex Machina especially when it’s a solution that comes out of nowhere. Also the conflict itself wasn’t TR, it was the problems that Dialga and Palkia’s clash was causing for the Sinnoh region and defeating them didn’t stop that as the red chain and the time reversal remained even after. It was only after that that the writers pulled out the DeM of prayer to be their solution rather than actually having one built into the plot if their idea was using Arceus to break the chain.

The outcome may have been the same but the issue isn’t the outcome, it’s the way that they got to said outcome and in this case, it was lazy, contrived and basically a ripoff of the Necrozma arc ending.

 

[R1ke]

Rushed but good. They did what they could with 2 episodes. Since they had so much to get through, they skimmed over actually fleshing out this alternate world. Not to mention how quickly they transported between places. But still some good shenanigans, like pokemon de-evolving and the alternate versions of characters. I really like the concept, seeing how you can take a character and spin them in a new direction. Would've loved to see more of AU Ash's backstory in particular, but I wasn't expecting much going into this.

Decent two parter with a great idea, but not enough episodes to flesh it out. If they just made a filler episode where we met AU versions of Ash/Goh/Chloe without all the Dialga/Palkia plot I'd honestly be down for that instead. Like the cave or mirrors episode in XY.