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Review JN090: Dialga & Palkia! The Space-Time Showdown!!

It's funny what a simple voice change can do to a character

Satoshi being a sniveling crybaby made him extremely unlikable
Hog being assertive was fun to watch
Chloe being sure of herself was heartwarming
Team Rocket felt threatening

Meanwhile Ash, Go, Koharu, and TRio felt extremely flat and out of their league
Made me mildly nostalgic for SM
 
I wish we could've seen Cynthia's Garchomp devolve to a Gabite and Gible.

It's been a while we've last seen Gible (one of my favorite Pokemon) in the anime. I believe the last time was back when Iris caught one.
 
To start with, let me say it straight up: I'm disappointed. This second part couldn't live up to my expectations.

While the first part of this new Dialga and Palkia arc had epic music, great action scenes and an exciting plot, I'm wondering where has all this gone in the second part?
The music was far from being epic and seemed to be chosen arbitrarily. Music can make a great episode even greater, but when the title has the word "showdown" in it, you at least expect the music to reflect that circmstance by making the plot more dramatic. It wasn't the case today, though.

Also, when two almost god-like giants being able to control space and time clash you expect an epic battle that makes the ground shake and the stars explode. This battle, however, felt more like an ordinary brawl between two ordinary Pokemon.

Then, we had the resolution which was DEM at its best... While praying to Arceus was a good idea which I really liked, the whole thing felt WAY too rushed and anticlimatic. "Let's pray to Arceus! Hey, there it is for one second! Oh, all problems are solved."
Sorry, writers, that was way too easy and disappointing! This arc would have deserved a worthy climax, something that's much better than how it was handled in the end! I really feel sorry for all the involved legendary Pokemon.

And last but not least, here's what upset me most: I'm aware this arc wasn't about Cynthia primarily. But, writers, if you choose to bring back HER, the Heavenly Queen, then for God's sake, at least let her play an important part in the plot! For example, Cynthia could have been the one to come up with the idea of summoning Arceus by finding the flute or praying or whatever. But having her just stand by and watch comes close to blasphemy, and that's inacceptable!


To sum it up, these two episodes show the fundamental flaw of Journeys :
At least in some parts, Journeys is meant to be a recap of the best moments and characters of all the series before. This idea per se is great but Journeys is proving again and again the concrete concept behind it isn't working. They're constantly trying to cram so many aspects into one or two episodes that, as a logical consequence, episodes will have to feel rushed and incomplete. Take for example the Dialga and Palkia arc in DP: Back then, there was an exciting build-up over many episodes and many many months, culminating in a worthy and great finale. Now in Journeys, they are trying to do all this in only two episodes. Of course, this is bound to fail. In order for the new arc to work, it should at least have been three or four episodes, time that Journeys obviously doesn't have. And that's what describes the problem of Journeys in a nutshell.


Nevertheless, I'd like to end my review on a positive note. There was indeed one scene that I absolutely loved:
Cynthia folding her hands and praying to Arceus. That short moment was so cute and solemn. :giggle: It made up for many of the aforementioned flaws of the episode.
May Arceus always protect you, dear Cynthia!

(One last question from somebody who doesn't speak Japanese: Do you pronounce it SHIrona (emphasis on the first syllable) or ShiROna (emphasis on the second syllable) ?
From what I've heard it's the former, right?)
 
Given the circumstances of the show’s set-up, I just never think Journeys will ever have good legendary encounters, with the highest placing average.

So far we’ve had Mewtwo, Zacian, Zamazenta, Lugia, Moltres, Zapdos, Regice, Regirock,
Ho-oh, Darkrai, Cresselia, Dialga, Palkia, Suicuine, Eternatus, and Mew & Celebi if you count them.
That’s a lot of big names, yet, can you say that any of them have been properly set-up, or even delivered in terms of performance? We seem them as ordinary CotD Pokemon throughout because there’s no importance of what they’re capable of, determined by the lack of set-up and lore given. For example, Bea’s Grapploct gained more of an introspective eye than most of these, and it can off as a pretty intimidating foe, especially after knowing its strengths, abilities, and personality. If the legendaries were more established, maybe we could see them a bit more special.

And Journeys I don’t think will ever get close to connecting this type of feeling, because of the set-up not be flexible to incorporate cues/clues about each of them. It’s one legendary, onto the next, and the only group I think that can change my mind is the Regis considering they’ve had some time given to build interest behind their position around the world.
 
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That's not much different than usual. Do people remember Darkrai appeared for 1 minute in a bad XY filler about dreams? Or they just randomly threw the birds in to battle Noviern and Talonflame? None of that had any real build up.

Or the old Johto appearances for Zapdos, Suicune, and Entei? Or how DP featured Rayquaza in an evil Togepi filler? The writers have always had legendaries just randomly appear in the show.

The old Darkrai/Cresselia ep from 2009 that aired during DP was terrible for example. The current series version fixed the lore where Darkrai and Cresselia were counterparts.

Even SM threw in Kyorge for Lana to fish out of the ocean or a random Celebi in the Kukui ep when they saw him as a kid.
 
Picardluke said:
That's not much different than usual. Do people remember Darkrai appeared for 1 minute in a bad XY filler about dreams? Or they just randomly threw the birds in to battle Noviern and Talonflame? None of that had any real build up.

Or the old Johto appearances for Zapdos, Suicune, and Entei? Or how DP featured Rayquaza in an evil Togepi filler? The writers have always had legendaries just randomly appear in the show.

The old Darkrai/Cresselia ep from 2009 that aired during DP was terrible for example. The current series version fixed the lore where Darkrai and Cresselia were counterparts.

Even SM threw in Kyorge for Lana to fish out of the ocean or a random Celebi in the Kukui ep when they saw him as a kid.
Click to expand...
You literally just named a series of general episodes that featured a legendary/mythical Pokémon and not even necessarily as the focus. There’s a difference between those kinds of episodes and specials that were marketed as involving these Pokémon as you’re creating an air of importance to these particular episodes and points where the writing is a step up from your average episode. There’s a reason why such a conclusion to this special is so disappointing for so many while nobody bats an eye about those other things you mentioned and frankly, it’s an issue a Journeys is rather infamous for in general.
 
This two-parter was balls. It was so overstuffed that it had to show one event and explanation after another, and in the second half of this episode the pacing was too fast that I could barely process anything. But somehow...it worked for me.

Of course it had big flaws, the biggest ones being Dawn's treatment (poor girl is doomed to never be the main focus during her returns and never participate in a contest again) and the Arceus part (there would have been a thousand better ways to write that) but...how often do we see Jessie's Wobbuffet as a Wynaut or Ash's Pikachu as an egg? or trainers adjusting to battling with weaker versions of their Pokemon? If you have an overcomplicated plot and not enough time to execute it you'd better run with it to do cool and funny stuff instead of boring the audience with exposition. In that sense I enjoyed it more than the Darkrai arc and (please don't kill me) the Necrozma Arc.
 
This two-parter was... interesting to say the least? I liked a lot of the concepts they had set-up for this special, even in spite of how surreal it felt even for Pokemon standards. Dawn's inclusion in this special felt really tacked on this time as she didn't really help develop anyone, and I feel like this special could've easily just went with Ash, Goh, Chloe, and TR along with their alternatives. Some of the AU protagonists I found fairly interesting though, and having traits such as AU Dawn being a League runner up and AU Chloe being a hacker were cool to see, though I wish they would've been more ambitious with Ash beyond making him a crybaby 2x. The main issue I feel like the two parter has though is the overabundance of characters that were being set up to play a part in just two episodes, and as a result some didn't really get to shine as much as I feel like they should've. The TR quartet in particular had very minimal impact beyond the DEM portion at the end of the 2nd part (along with not even getting to interact with the AU TR or even Dawn AGAIN), and I wish they got to do more seeing as they'd been MIA for 7 episodes straight. Similar to the last DP centered arc, it definitely could've benefit from at least one more episode because you could really feel it was rushed in a lot of areas (The group immediately heading to various locations, AU Meowth randomly disappearing during the rematch, the ending), but the pacing was generally at least felt more in control compared to before. One aspect I can say I really enjoyed was the concept of devolution, and getting to look at Pichu, Wynaut, Baby Meowth, Raboot, etc. was a treat to see. I think they could've they went all out with the time concept and maybe even showed older characters, but it was still a cool way to provide stakes to the special

AU TR was a mixed bag tbh. I enjoyed seeing how a modern-day BW TRio would work (now with Wobbuffet!) but I wish that they would've been consistently threatening across the board. They started off strong during the first part but felt very underwhelming during the final fight, even as well-animated as it was. AU Meowth going head-to-head with Cynthia's Garchomp only to job to Eevee broke my suspension of disbelief just a little bit. I also wish that could've been more ambitious w/ their individual characters like maybe having AU James be the leader of the team, or maybe even having Wobbuffet be the talking Pokemon over AU Meowth, but their portrayal was still solid overall. Lastly, I feel like the conclusion to end it all off was both too dry and short-lived for me to really feel anything towards it, but DP's lore at least ties in with Arceus being summoned so it didn't feel nearly as half-assed as a certain DEM for another alternate-world special I won't really go into this thread :wynaut:

At the end of the day this was a fun little "what if?" type of special that while still really flawed in pacing and wrapping up the overall conflict, still managed to delivered in a lot of areas for fanservice

OVERALL SCORE:
6/10
 
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I said before these eps would be more interesting if this wasn't the third series in a row to use the parallel world story. Unfortunately, this failed to dispel my fears.

My main problem is the alt world is just the Mirror World again, where the only real differences is the humans have different personalities. It doesn't help that alt-Ash's personality is incredibly similar (if not the same; I haven't watched that XY ep in years) to Mirror Ash.

Like come on. It's an alternate universe. The possibilities are endless, so do something interesting. Have fun with the premise.. Go nuts!

Alt-Dawn came second in the Sinnoh League, but nothing comes of it. It's a cute reference to Dawn's placement in the Grand Festival, but we also could've seen alt-Dawn actually use those skills she supposedly has.

Give the alt-characters different Pokemon. Maybe give alt-Ash the Clefairy our Ash was originally gonna have.

Have the alt-Pokemon use different moves. Alt-Buneary had Mega Punch, but the battle is too crowded for that to mean much.

Speaking of Pokemon, this could've been a great opportunity to see everyone use Pokemon they never had/used to have, but the Pokemon barely get any screentime before they're Egged.

I feel that if they had one more ep, they could've done these things. Or at least if they cut alt-Goh and alt-Chloe. They felt kinda shoehorned in.
 
Kurolegacy said:
You literally just named a series of general episodes that featured a legendary/mythical Pokémon and not even necessarily as the focus. There’s a difference between those kinds of episodes and specials that were marketed as involving these Pokémon as you’re creating an air of importance to these particular episodes and points where the writing is a step up from your average episode. There’s a reason why such a conclusion to this special is so disappointing for so many while nobody bats an eye about those other things you mentioned and frankly, it’s an issue a Journeys is rather infamous for in general.
Click to expand...
For your previous post look at the last Lyra ep in DP. Everyone bows to the statues of the legendaries in prayer. Sinnoh always treated its legendaries as deities compared to other regions. The Dialga/Palkia here weren't the focus point of the episode it was mainly to explain why everyone was de-aging. In the previous episode Cynthia said Arceus birthed Dialga/Palkia and is treated like a God. The cast than praying to God in their realm and the visual of Arceus descending to reverse the damage of Dialga/Palkia was the result of that.

For the record the Galactic finale in 2009 handled this similarly and arguably more rushed because Dialga/Palkia didn't even get through the portals and neither Arceus or Giratina even appeared.
 
Picardluke said:
For your previous post look at the last Lyra ep in DP. Everyone bows to the statues of the legendaries in prayer. Sinnoh always treated its legendaries as deities compared to other regions. The Dialga/Palkia here weren't the focus point of the episode it was mainly to explain why everyone was de-aging. In the previous episode Cynthia said Arceus birthed Dialga/Palkia and is treated like a God. The cast than praying to God in their realm and the visual of Arceus descending to reverse the damage of Dialga/Palkia was the result of that.

For the record the Galactic finale in 2009 handled this similarly and arguably more rushed because Dialga/Palkia didn't even get through the portals and neither Arceus or Giratina even appeared.
Click to expand...
That’s not even remotely the same thing as, with DP, the group don’t pray to Dialga and Palkia, they pay their respects following a myth that in touching the statue that their dreams can come true. To say that that is praying is a gross exaggeration as even Brock’s explanation of the statues’ significance doesn’t mention praying to them. And Arceus is long established to be the creator but there is zero precedence of people of the Sinnoh region praying to it as people would pray to whatever deity they believe in in the real world.

And if you don’t consider being the literal cause of the entire story’s conflict as being an important aspect to the plot, I don’t know what to tell you. Hell, they received top billing in the title.

And Team Galactic’s plot doesn’t even compare to this considering that it was a story built up over the course of the entire DP series and was given a lot more room to breath in its finale. Hell, what does Arceus and Giratina even have to do with the finale when they were never even factors in the anime’s Galactic story in the first place? At this point you’re just arguing things that aren’t even relevant.
 
Please note: The thread is from 2 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.

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