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Controversial opinions

(Here's a controversial opinion for all of ya though: if the people who write this show are gonna suck this bad at their jobs, they should just hire all of us fans to write the show instead. We know what the other fans want to see.)
Um, sorry to say but this is actually a pretty terrible idea for a number of reasons.

First is the simple fact that writing for a show requires knowledge and experience that, in all likelyhood, most fans simply don't have. It takes a lot of knowhow on how to develop the script of an episode, let alone the plotline and structure of a whole saga, and it's also very much not the same thing as writing an essay or even a book. And this is all without taking into account that just because some of us are able to detect problems with writing it doesn't mean that we'd be good writers ourselves in turn.

Second is the fact that fans have plenty of disagreements ourselves on what would be best to see happen in the anime, so just knowing what other fans want to see would absolutely not be of great help because not everyone wants to see the same thing. To give an easy example, a lot of fans are happy that Ash finally caught popular Pokemon like Dragonite, Gengar and Lucario, but there are also just as many fans who loathe the fact that Ash caught such Pokemon and see it as lazy and pandery and would rather see more unconventional and obscure species get spotlight. So, what do you think would happen if both groups were spontaneously hired as writers? Well, obviously they'd butt heads. A lot. Most likely they'd have to work some kind of compromise, which is easier said than done. And I assure you that the actual writers more than likely have such debates and arguments and disagreements not just between themselves, but also likely with the studio executives, who in turn probably also have their share of disagreements about what'll benefit the show the most. There's a proverb that goes "too many good cooks can spoil a soup" and it evidently exists for a reason.

Thirdly, do you seriously think that not a single writer on board is a fan of Pokemon themself? Remember, this show came out in the nineties, meaning that the kids who watched it back then are now adults (as evidenced by this very forum, as plenty of us are in our 20s and even 30s). It's not a stretch to imagine that at least some of those kids would then go on to join the Pokemon anime writing staff themselves.

Basically, hiring the fans as writers is, apart from highly impractical, would in all likelyhood not solve any problems and would at best just create new ones. Making a show is a messy affair. And with a franchise as big as Pokemon it's impossible to please absolutely everyone in your audience.
 
Adding to that I always found it strange people complain when Ash captures popular pokemon and people act like it's pandering. Are people so used to Ash battling with unevolved starters and the boring regional bird that when the writers give him other pokemon he doesn't usually get they complain?

Ash's teams has always been boring and predictable for decades. He gets the usual starters or sometimes all 2-3. Some starters either stay unevolved or evolve all the way and he gets the boring regional bird that usually has very little to no personality. Then a random water pokemon or whatever. I even remember when XY was airing people were complaining Ash didn't get a grass pokemon because they wanted him to get the same boring water/fire/grass combo every gen.

I would have gladly traded Torkoal for a Flygon or Absol in AG. The writers only gave him Torkoal because back then they had to stick to the same boring grass/water/fire/bird team he had every gen even though the writers clearly had no plans for Torkoal at all. Really puts into perspective how boring a lot of Ash's captures were.
 
Adding to that I always found it strange people complain when Ash captures popular pokemon and people act like it's pandering. Are people so used to Ash battling with unevolved starters and the boring regional bird that when the writers give him other pokemon he doesn't usually get they complain?
I don't think that "Give Ash popular Pokemon" and "Give Ash a Fire/Water/Grass/Bird combo that includes at least one starter" are so mutually exclusive, particularly because Starter Pokemon are highly popular and marketable themselves and frequently top fan favorite polls. In fact, in the 2020 poll the winner was a Starter and only two Starter lines (Tepig and Chespin) failed entirely to make it to the top 30 favorites of their Generation. So I don't think that the people angry that Ash caught a Lucario are necessarily demanding that he should have instead caught an Inteleon or whatever. If anything, most people complaining that Ash didn't catch any of the Galar Starters tend to say they would have liked Ash to have a Starter in addition to Lucario rather than in place of it, at least from my experience.

Also, one possible reason people don't complain about the Pikachu/Fire/Water/Grass/Bird/Miscellaneous setup of Ash's teams might have something to do that, while it is indeed kinda boring and predictable, it's also actually quite practical for in-game play: Grass, Fire, Water, and Electric are types that have pretty good synergy with each other because they all cover each other's weaknesses really well, giving them great neutral coverage when put in the same team. Heck, back in SUMO and USUM's Battle Tree, the team that in my experience was most consistently good and got me the longest winning streaks was, you guessed it, a Fire/Water/Grass/Electric quartet. And none of them were Legendaries or pseudo-legendaries or could Mega Evolve either (though the Fire-type did hold a Firium-Z), so that should give you an idea of how powerful such a team combination can be despite its simplicity and predictability.

The mandatory bird meanwhile probably references the fact that most players used to have one on their teams simply because Fly was one of the most useful HMs once obtained due to allowing for easy and fast travel, and it certainly didn't hurt that, unlike the Regional Rodents, the Regional Birds tend to be just strong enough to be useful throughout the entire campaign, meaning they tend to become mainstays more frequently.
 
Um, sorry to say but this is actually a pretty terrible idea for a number of reasons.

First is the simple fact that writing for a show requires knowledge and experience that, in all likelyhood, most fans simply don't have. It takes a lot of knowhow on how to develop the script of an episode, let alone the plotline and structure of a whole saga, and it's also very much not the same thing as writing an essay or even a book. And this is all without taking into account that just because some of us are able to detect problems with writing it doesn't mean that we'd be good writers ourselves in turn.

Second is the fact that fans have plenty of disagreements ourselves on what would be best to see happen in the anime, so just knowing what other fans want to see would absolutely not be of great help because not everyone wants to see the same thing. To give an easy example, a lot of fans are happy that Ash finally caught popular Pokemon like Dragonite, Gengar and Lucario, but there are also just as many fans who loathe the fact that Ash caught such Pokemon and see it as lazy and pandery and would rather see more unconventional and obscure species get spotlight. So, what do you think would happen if both groups were spontaneously hired as writers? Well, obviously they'd butt heads. A lot. Most likely they'd have to work some kind of compromise, which is easier said than done. And I assure you that the actual writers more than likely have such debates and arguments and disagreements not just between themselves, but also likely with the studio executives, who in turn probably also have their share of disagreements about what'll benefit the show the most. There's a proverb that goes "too many good cooks can spoil a soup" and it evidently exists for a reason.

Thirdly, do you seriously think that not a single writer on board is a fan of Pokemon themself? Remember, this show came out in the nineties, meaning that the kids who watched it back then are now adults (as evidenced by this very forum, as plenty of us are in our 20s and even 30s). It's not a stretch to imagine that at least some of those kids would then go on to join the Pokemon anime writing staff themselves.

Basically, hiring the fans as writers is, apart from highly impractical, would in all likelyhood not solve any problems and would at best just create new ones. Making a show is a messy affair. And with a franchise as big as Pokemon it's impossible to please absolutely everyone in your audience.
Um, wow. I sincerely apologize. Please realize I was only joking. I kinda was just throwing a crazy idea out there. I don't seriously intend for the fans to replace the writers. Perhaps I have become a little jaded reading all the negativity surrounding this series, and all the negativity in the world in general, and I've become a little fed up with it all. It's just that, I'm so....disappointed with this series, and with Pokemon in general.

Now, I've been watching the Pokemon anime for over 18 years, and been playing the games for 17 years, and only very recently have I started to feel disappointed with them. I know they're capable of more. And sure, people can use the pandemic as reasoning, or corporate greed, or any number of reasons. Perhaps it's just that Pokemon has become too successful for its own good. All I know is, it used to better than it is now. That's why Sword and Shield got so much flack, and why Journeys gets so much grief, because they both feel so.....half-assed. I know they are capable of far more than what we got out of Gen 8, both with the games and anime.

But don't get the wrong idea. I don't blame the writers of Journeys entirely for the mess it's become. Nor do I blame the developers of Sw/Sh or Gamefreak for that mess of a game, either. It's not any one person's fault, obviously. Actually, I partially blame the fans themselves (no offense to any of you) for expecting new games before they're ready, as was evident with Sw/Sh, and denouncing new Pokemon designs too much, and being too obsessed with the old ones (looking at you, people who bashed Gen 5 when it first came out, only to say 10 years later, "Gen 5's the best generation ever! Wow!") You would not believe how many people I've run into in my life who told me, "Gen 5 designs are trash. Pokémon's hit a new low. Garbodor, Vanilluxe, they all suck." People spat on Gen 5 so much when it first came out, and whined and complained so much, just because they were different. And of course, because they couldn't use their beloved Gen 1 pokemon during the main story, god forbid. (Sorry all you Genwunners out there, I mean you no offense, I respect you, but I'll never understand the Gen 1 love, I started in Gen 3 myself.) And because of all that Gen 1 praising and Black and White bashing, I think that's when things started to change for the worst. The games started getting easier, there was less focus on new Pokemon, and more focus on Kanto than ever before. Notice how the Kanto starters got Megas, but the Kalos starters, who debuted in the same region as Mega Evolution, did not, and how every single Alolan Form was of a Kanto Pokemon. And let's not forget the ridiculous amount of focus Kanto got during Gen 7. It was insane.

Now look, I like Kanto. I really do. I get it, it's the first region, it's where many people first ventured into the world of Pokemon. And it's not a bad region by any means. Hell, my favorite Pokemon, Charizard, is from the Kanto region. So I get why so many people love it so much and defend it to the death. That said, it's not so special that it invalidates every other region by default, either. For example, remember how I said my favorite Pokemon comes from Kanto? Well, my least favorite(s) come from Kanto, too. Namely, Jynx, Mr.Mime, and Hypno. And when people bashed Gen 5 for its, "lazy designs", they seemed to forget that their precious Gen 1 had such Pokemon as: a rock with arms, a Poke Ball with eyes, a magnet, and a pile of sentient sludge. So while Kanto is special yes, they're plenty of other Pokemon out there in the other Generations who are just as good, if not better, than the 'mons of Kanto.

All in all, I think it's a combination of fan demand/requests, success, corporate greed, and a bunch of other stuff that is causing the problems right now with the Pokemon franchise. It's just kinda sad to see it come to this. I think all of us fans, new and old, deserve better than what we're getting. And to all those out there who say that Pokemon is mainly aimed at kids (especially the anime,) that may very well be true. But, it can be for all ages, and, just because it's aimed at kids firstly isn't an excuse for lazy writing in the anime's case, or dumbed-down difficulty in the case of the games. Kids can appreciate intelligent writing in a show or anime, and difficulty in a video game, too. Just look at me. I started with the original series of Pokemon, and when I was 8 years old, I got my very first Pokemon game, which was one of the hardest Pokemon games there is, Pokemon Colosseum. (In fact, perhaps this is a bad example, as I kinda sucked at video games when I was younger, and Pokemon Colosseum stumped me not even halfway in, and as a matter of fact, I never beat the main story, either.) And after Colosseum, I got Pokemon Emerald, also regarded as one of the hardest Pokemon games out there. And let me tell you, Pokemon Emerald and Colosseum whupped me good. I lost all the time. But I gradually got better, after each defeat, I'd improve. And this was when was only 10 years old, mind you. My point being, I think kids are coddled just a bit too much today with Pokemon games, and perhaps everything. But they, and us older fans who've been with the series a long time, deserve better. OK, rant's over. And I'm sorry if I caused any discontent with my statement of the fans replacing the writers, again, I was only kidding.
 
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Amourshipping isn't even close pedophilia and let me explain
Most people who like to throw hands against amour shipping are mostly manga fans ( from my experience) and that quite has quite a bit of shipping
And the episode where Serena dresses as ash? The same thing happened with Duplica and even Team rocket dressed as Ash before it's just a silly anime trope!
 
Um, wow. I sincerely apologize. Please realize I was only joking. I kinda was just throwing a crazy idea out there. I don't seriously intend for the fans to replace the writers. Perhaps I have become a little jaded reading all the negativity surrounding this series, and all the negativity in the world in general, and I've become a little fed up with it all. It's just that, I'm so....disappointed with this series, and with Pokemon in general.
Nah, don't worry, you didn't cause any discontent. I was just pointing out how incredibly messy making a show is, and how a lot of its problems often have less to do with a lack of talent and more to do with the entire process because lot of people take that for granted. Sorry for missing the joken and for coming off as too abrasive in my response.
 
Amourshipping isn't even close pedophilia and let me explain
Most people who like to throw hands against amour shipping are mostly manga fans ( from my experience) and that quite has quite a bit of shipping
And the episode where Serena dresses as ash? The same thing happened with Duplica and even Team rocket dressed as Ash before it's just a silly anime trope!
Wait.....are there people who actually think Amourshipping is like pedophilia??!? Hooooooooooooooow??? It's not pedophilia at alllll. And that episode where Serena dressed up as Ash? I honestly thought that was adorable and that episode ranks as one of my favorite filler episodes in the entire Pokemon anime.
 
Wait.....are there people who actually think Amourshipping is like pedophilia??!? Hooooooooooooooow??? It's not pedophilia at alllll. And that episode where Serena dressed up as Ash? I honestly thought that was adorable and that episode ranks as one of my favorite filler episodes in the entire Pokemon anime.
Pedophilia is making advancements on a child and calling these people sick would be an understatement.
 
Adding to that I always found it strange people complain when Ash captures popular pokemon and people act like it's pandering. Are people so used to Ash battling with unevolved starters and the boring regional bird that when the writers give him other pokemon he doesn't usually get they complain?
From what I can tell, most people aren't upset that Ash caught these popular Pokemon. People were generally excited when he made these captures in large part because of how unexpected they were. The issue is more on how these Pokemon aren't really getting much screentime, which I think is pretty understandable.

Ash hasn't really relied on unevolved starters for quite some time. Aside from the OS and BW, they were far more willing to let Ash's starters evolve. Rowlet was also an exception, but the rest of his SM was fully evolved, including his other starter Incineroar. They tended to take awhile for the starters to evolve, particularly in Chimchar's case, but Ash hasn't really relied on a team of mostly unevolved Pokemon for ages. He hasn't even caught the regional bird since XY, which at this point was also quite awhile ago, so acting as if he has always battled with unevolved starters and regional birds just seems a bit odd to me.

Ash's teams has always been boring and predictable for decades. He gets the usual starters or sometimes all 2-3. Some starters either stay unevolved or evolve all the way and he gets the boring regional bird that usually has very little to no personality. Then a random water pokemon or whatever. I even remember when XY was airing people were complaining Ash didn't get a grass pokemon because they wanted him to get the same boring water/fire/grass combo every gen.
This is really strange to me because I genuinely don't recall anyone else calling Ash's teams boring and predictable like this prior to Journeys. Sure, he'd get at least one starter, the regional bird, a Water type and a couple of wild cards, but despite the similar setup to his teams, they never felt boring or that they were making the same team over and over again in every series. They usually still had some distinct personality traits or storylines. Sceptile and Torterra aren't anything alike despite being Ash's Grass starter in those respective teams. Corpish and Buizel are practically opposites of each other. Corpish was more of the comic relief Pokemon, while Buizel was a more seriously battle. Not to mention you'd still see Ash training new Pokemon regardless of the similar structure for his team. And if you wanted to see the cool new Pokemon in the anime, like I always did and still do, then I don't think that the similar setup for his team is really going to be that bothersome.

As far as I can remember, fans liked seeing what new Pokemon Ash would catch. Speculation on what starter Ash was going to get is one of the most common questions whenever a new generation is announced, along with the typical "Is Ash finally going to be replaced?" question. From what I remember, people wanted him to get a Grass Pokemon not so much because they wanted to get the Water/Fire/Grass combo, but that he needed some Grass type coverage. That and I think people were annoyed with how many Flying types he had. Water/Fire/Grass is also a pretty solid combo that provides As, as well as people playing the games, a good amount of coverage. It wasn't impossible for Ash to get other types of Pokemon before either.

I would have gladly traded Torkoal for a Flygon or Absol in AG. The writers only gave him Torkoal because back then they had to stick to the same boring grass/water/fire/bird team he had every gen even though the writers clearly had no plans for Torkoal at all. Really puts into perspective how boring a lot of Ash's captures were.
I wouldn't say that they didn't have plans for Torkoal exactly. As a single stage Pokemon, there wasn't really a lot they could do with it beyond learning some new moves, especially when it was basically another gag Pokemon. Not to mention AG wasn't really interested in giving Ash's Pokemon more in depth storylines and for the most part, I don't think that they needed to. They also really didn't have a lot of options for Fire types. As much as I love Flygon and Absol, I can see why Ash didn't get them. I don't think that they would have been interested in giving Ash a Dragon Pokemon and Absol is a better fit for a rival than for Ash. It still would have been cool, but I don't think it was a matter not wanting to mess with the Grass/Water/Fire/Regional bird setup exactly. They wanted to give Ash popular and marketable Pokemon, which would have included Pokemon like Sceptile and Swellow. A good amount of the boring regional birds are pretty popular too, especially Staraptor, Talonflame and Corviknight.

As much as you're complaining about Ash's captures being boring and predictable, I don't really see how his current team is better. Yeah, it's unpredictable and different, but I can't really praise it for being different for the shake of it given the minimal screentime and development most of his team members have gotten thus far.
 
Pedophilia is making advancements on a child and calling these people sick would be an understatement.
No, no. I know what Pedophilia is. And you're right, those people are beyond messed up. What I'm saying is how the hell is Amourshipping like that at all? Ash and Serena are the same age. I know you yourself don't think this, but was there someone who actually did??
 
And because of all that Gen 1 praising and Black and White bashing, I think that's when things started to change for the worst. The games started getting easier, there was less focus on new Pokemon, and more focus on Kanto than ever before.
I could see the B/W backlash (or perhaps more likely it's lower sales) being why they started pushing Kanto really hard, but I'm not sure if that's why the difficulty dropped; that was officially blamed on mobile phone games.

But really I think the issues the games have been having lately are mostly connected to the significantly increased difficult of 3D game design--note that they happened to coincide with the jump to 3D, and then Sw/Sh, the most controversial yet, was when they moved to a home console with much stricter graphics requirements, and GameFreak isn't a huge studio despite the franchise's success (though I suspect the revenue is split up between a lot of companies so it's hard to say how much GameFreak gets).
When games were changing from 2D to 3D in the mid to late 90s it was a rough time; a lot of issues cropped up, some franchises didn't make it, and even ones that did often visibly scaled things back.

I wouldn't say that they didn't have plans for Torkoal exactly. As a single stage Pokemon, there wasn't really a lot they could do with it beyond learning some new moves, especially when it was basically another gag Pokemon.
Honestly, during Hoenn itself I'd say Torkoal was treated better than Pidgeot or Heracross were (at least Torkoal got a Gym battle!). They got some personality and a funny scene or two, and they had an okay battle record during Hoenn itself even if a lot of them were short or mostly off-screen.
Unfortunately Torkoal came back twice afterwards and both times it was to lose.

What I'm saying is how the hell is Amourshipping like that at all? Ash and Serena are the same age.
So, there's a thing that used to go around on the internet (possibly still does but I don't see it anymore) that people only shipped characters if they were attracted to one of them and were using the ship to vicariously experience it themselves.
That would be my best guess as to why anyone would say the ship is questionable in that way.
 
No, no. I know what Pedophilia is. And you're right, those people are beyond messed up. What I'm saying is how the hell is Amourshipping like that at all? Ash and Serena are the same age. I know you yourself don't think this, but was there someone who actually did??
Facepalm People who don't know what forums are and use Twitter Reddit etc are the bad apples in the Pokemon fandom. Ash x Serena is adorable. That's exactly why I came here to have real and honest conversations.

They're VERY toxic and I got flamed for pointing out people like to sexualize Cynthia. Mad huh?
 
Amourshipping isn't even close pedophilia and let me explain
Most people who like to throw hands against amour shipping are mostly manga fans ( from my experience) and that quite has quite a bit of shipping
And the episode where Serena dresses as ash? The same thing happened with Duplica and even Team rocket dressed as Ash before it's just a silly anime trope!
Wha.... Ash and Serena are the same age. Why are people thinking this counts as pedophilia? Are people saying this on twitter or something because this is the first i'm hearing of this?
 
Wha.... Ash and Serena are the same age. Why are people thinking this counts as pedophilia? Are people saying this on twitter or something because this is the first i'm hearing of this?
Twitter and YouTube are hellholes for amour shippers or just the Pokemon fandom in general. Everytime someone comments about "Serena's return on journeys" they always get smarted off by an asshole.
 
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I could see the B/W backlash (or perhaps more likely it's lower sales) being why they started pushing Kanto really hard, but I'm not sure if that's why the difficulty dropped; that was officially blamed on mobile phone games.
Poor B/W, they're amazing games, shame it took people so long to realize that. Also, I hate mobile phone games for doing that.
 
Nah, don't worry, you didn't cause any discontent. I was just pointing out how incredibly messy making a show is, and how a lot of its problems often have less to do with a lack of talent and more to do with the entire process because lot of people take that for granted. Sorry for missing the joken and for coming off as too abrasive in my response.
No, no, it's all right. Perhaps it was a bit of a stupid comment to make anyway. I think I had seen a few posts about people saying there wasn't enough controversial stuff in this thread, and I stupidly decided to write that, maybe for the shock value too. But I've just come across so many people with issues with this series and beyond, that I just don't know what to say anymore. The whole comment I made was rather outlandish. But, since I'm assuming you read my realllly long earlier post, you know that I have my fair share of disappointment with this franchise as a whole recently. Actually, I think the decision to give Ash a Lucario and Dragonite (not Gengar so much, sorry Gengar fans, I don't really like Ghost types) was not a terrible idea per se, but the way it's been executed hasn't been great. I really like Lucario and Dragonite both, Lucario's got the coolness factor in spades as my favorite Fighting type, and Dragonite's personality is just so sweet, while at the same time being a badass Dragon type that's never lost a single battle. At the same time though, it probably would've been better if he had gotten Dragonite and Gengar as a Dratini and Gastly.
 
A lot of people talk about how hard it would be to bring Serena back,

But has anyone here actually thought about what the writers are going to do with Misty when she inevitably returns?

I feel like it's probably too late for me to see Misty high up in the PWC and They already had her battling with Ash in SuMo so I doubt they'd do it again.
Maybe they could give Dracovish development through her? But personally I'd much rather that be reserved for Nessa instead

I can't think of any reason for her to bond with Goh other than maybe she might find an interest in Inteleon since it's a Water Type she's never met before?

Lastly there's Chloe, who I can see getting along with Misty well, but what could Misty possibly add to Chloe goal that Dawn already hasn't? And I doubt Chloe would be interested in being a Water Type Expert.
And I doubt she'd really inspire Eevee either since Eevee has already met a Vaporeon


Only thing I could see is maybe Misty's former Togetic somehow returning???

We haven't gotten an episode focusing on the Togepi line yet so maybe

Or maybe they just go the Dialga/Palkia route where there's a Legendary causing trouble in Cerulean City Misty adds nothing to the episode besides being a Nostalgia bonus
 
A lot of people talk about how hard it would be to bring Serena back,

But has anyone here actually thought about what the writers are going to do with Misty when she inevitably returns?

I feel like it's probably too late for me to see Misty high up in the PWC and They already had her battling with Ash in SuMo so I doubt they'd do it again.
Maybe they could give Dracovish development through her? But personally I'd much rather that be reserved for Nessa instead

I can't think of any reason for her to bond with Goh other than maybe she might find an interest in Inteleon since it's a Water Type she's never met before?

Lastly there's Chloe, who I can see getting along with Misty well, but what could Misty possibly add to Chloe goal that Dawn already hasn't? And I doubt Chloe would be interested in being a Water Type Expert.
And I doubt she'd really inspire Eevee either since Eevee has already met a Vaporeon


Only thing I could see is maybe Misty's former Togetic somehow returning???

We haven't gotten an episode focusing on the Togepi line yet so maybe

Or maybe they just go the Dialga/Palkia route where there's a Legendary causing trouble in Cerulean City Misty adds nothing to the episode besides being a Nostalgia bonus
You mean like that "legendary" fish pokemon? But jokes aside there's absolutely no reason to bring back misty unless you use her let's go design.
 
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Facepalm People who don't know what forums are and use Twitter Reddit etc are the bad apples in the Pokemon fandom. Ash x Serena is adorable. That's exactly why I came here to have real and honest conversations.

They're VERY toxic and I got flamed for pointing out people like to sexualize Cynthia. Mad huh?
Uggh, I'm sorry to hear that. Don't listen to those people, they don't know what the hell they're talking about and there are certainly people who like to sexualize Cynthia who use Twitter and Reddit. Don't worry, the people here have conversations that aren't utter nonsense. That aside, I also find Ash x Serena to be adorable, I think it's one of my favorite ships in all media.
 
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