Anime & Manga General Discussion

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.

The win against Electivire made sense when considering real life logic. It is possible to overcharge a battery, and that's what happened with Electivire.

 

[Chilon]

I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.

I found it natural that a battery can overload. Whe arent in a game. We are in the Anime. There you can do anything with a good justification. X Y is not a bad series! @Gengarzilla

 

[Hidden Mew]

I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.

I thought that people had more problems with Gengar losing yet again more so than anything else in that match. I honestly couldn't remember if it had always knew Ice Punch or if this was another case of learning a move off-screen. The latter always annoys me more and I think that has happened with Ash's Journeys team quite a bit. I was fine with Lucario's battles. Defeating Fan Rotom with Reversal felt believable. Even with it being part Flying type, I could buy that Lucario had taken enough damage to where Reversal would hit it hard by that point. Tying with Luxray might have been more unbelievable by comparison, but I was fine with that mainly because it was more believable than Pikachu defeating both Luxray and Electrivire.

The win against Electivire made sense when considering real life logic. It is possible to overcharge a battery, and that's what happened with Electivire.

I'm not sure how much real life logic we should apply to Pokemon battles in general. I'm also not surprised that people didn't like Pikachu defating Electivire like it did, especially when I don't think that people liked Ash having an exclusive Z-Move like that to begin with. Personally, I thought it was fine since it was the first time Volkner had dealt with a Z-Move, or I assume it was given his reaction to Ash's Z-Ring, so neither he or Electrivire would really know how to deal with such a move or how that would affect Electrivire. But I can definitely understand finding it more cheap or unsatisfying to win, especially when it does ignore how it would work within the context of the video games. Pikachu defeating Luxray instead would have been more believable, but I'm not surprised that they wanted to have them win in a more unexpected and flashy way like with using a Z-Move against Electrivire.

Compared to all of the one shot battles, including Rindo whose only real purpose was to get Sirfetch'd to evolve, Ash vs. Volkner is a breath of fresh air. Not absolutely flawless or perfect by any means, but still really solid. I'd even go as far as to say that the battle was too good for this series and despite my major issues with it, I do like Journeys.

 

[Imtnt]

I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.

I think they stretched the progress of Lucario there too much, but still they tried to show us Lucario making use of moves like endure and reversal. Also gamewise he is weak only to fire fighting and ground moves. So it makes sense he will be tough. Now you throw plot armor and he can stand any fire move without calling it endure.

 

[Chilon]

Flamethrower is the best Fire Typ move in the anime. Every Pokemon can use it. For Example Sceptile and it still is pretty. And Dragon Breath is still a dragon type copy.

 

[Enzo]

I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.

I also don't really like this battle because seeing Volkner coming up with all sorts of clever strategies and blindsiding Ash over and over while Ash is just... punching his way out and his mons tank hit after hit and seemingly not taking any damage was really weird.

 

[puddleths]

The Volkner battle getting praised as the best of JN has never sat right with me. The last PWC match I enjoyed was Bea 3, but that has its own issues (including Lucario taking too much damage).

Visquez was such a nice start. Who knew it'd be all downhill from there?

 

[Hidden Mew]

The Volkner battle getting praised as the best of JN has never sat right with me. The last PWC match I enjoyed was Bea 3, but that has its own issues (including Lucario taking too much damage).

I haven't gotten to the last match with Bea yet, but I did hear some good things about that one.

Visquez was such a nice start. Who knew it'd be all downhill from there?

It's not really surprising given that they chose to make a stand-in for Lt. Surge instead of actually bringing him back. It would have been more Kanto pandering, but at least it could have been interesting for Ash to meet another Kanto Gym Leader again. The battle itself was pretty good, but I always felt that making an anime original character as Ash's first PWC opponent was just a bad move. Instead of battling against new characters with new Pokemon, we got a stand-in for Lt. Surge with first generation Pokemon, so that just made the PWC look terrible to me from the start. The fact that most of the other matches in the first two classe were one-on-one with just some two-on-two matches occasionally didn't help matters either, especially when that gave way to the random one-shot characters and off-screen matches. It's really hard to make the PWC feel like a big deal when the majority of Ash's opponents for the first half of the tournament were basically fodder.

Most of my main issues with the PWC pretty much boil down to its structure and most of that wasn't really improved entirely over the course of the series. A big reason why I'd still give a lot of credit to the Volkner match is because they actually devoted an entire episode to a three-on-three match, which should have been standard from the start. I think that's also one reason why the lack of reserves for the Master Class doesn't bother me. I'm just kind of glad that we're finally going to get three-on-three matches for an entire tournament like it should have been from the start instead of just going back and forth on what battle format they have for each match.

 

[Sai]

I don't see the problem with 2 on 2 battles, some league matches were like that too in previous leagues.

 

[Imtnt]

The Volkner battle getting praised as the best of JN has never sat right with me. The last PWC match I enjoyed was Bea 3, but that has its own issues (including Lucario taking too much damage).

Visquez was such a nice start. Who knew it'd be all downhill from there?

I would'nt say best, but it was a long battle, 3 vs 3, and Ash picked his best 3 pokemon. And I can remember .
Winning with a Z Move - in general it makes sense it was going to be a Z move that will get him ahead in that class. His most powerfull gimick at that time, and maybe his speciallity in the tournement as Alolan champion. Plus It was realy in character to make that move, as the only way out ('cause Pikachu didn't match Electrive). Clearly the writers want to make a statement here: Pika Z Move is that powerful against any pokemon, if it almost OHKO when against OverPowered Electric type with that normally absorbs el ectric in order to boost speed.

 

[Sai]

Also Gengar scored an attack on Luxray forcing Volkner to recall it, so Luxray wasn't just defeated by Lucario. After that Lucario fainted too with a double KO so it's not like Lucario didn't go down as well.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't see the problem with 2 on 2 battles, some league matches were like that too in previous leagues.

The difference is that those two-on-two League matches were usually qualifying rounds for the actual tournament. Then it was three-on-three matches and then full battles for the later rounds of the League. There's no consistency like that with the PWC. Even in the Hyper Class, we still got a one-on-one battles. Going back and forth on what format they wanted to use for each match just made it feel like a mess.

I'm not saying that two-on-two battles are automatically bad. Ash vs. Korrina was the first PWC match that I actually enjoyed and I thought that the first two Bea matches were pretty solid too. Ash vs. Iris wasn't bad, but I do think it was a bit too rushed and probably would have been more enjoyable as a three-on-three match instead. As much as I hate the one shot character matches, I did like the battles Sirfetch'd had prior to its evolution too. My main problem is that winning a one-on-one match and arguably two-on-two matches as well just doesn't come off as particularly impressive. It's really hard to make defeating one or two Pokemon feel like a huge accomplishment. And considering the the bulk of the PWC was built on these kind of matches, that's a problem. Defeating three Pokemon or half of a full team is generally more effective. It gives both side a chance to potentially show off their skills, give their Pokemon more chances to shine and can make the victory feel more impressive/earned.

Obviously, none of that is guaranteed either. There are plenty of bad battles throughout the anime's run even if they are three-on-three. I just think that kind of format is more ideal and would have helped to make Ash climbing the ranks to the Master Class feel more impressive, as well as making the PWC feel like living up to the hype fans created for it.

 

[puddleths]

It would have been more Kanto pandering, but at least it could have been interesting for Ash to meet another Kanto Gym Leader again. The battle itself was pretty good, but I always felt that making an anime original character as Ash's first PWC opponent was just a bad move.

I can see the issue with Visquez not being a meaningful character for Ash to face. But Surge, in particular, is a character I think was fine to avoid considering he was one of the only legitimately defeated Kanto gym leaders.

I just really enjoyed how the battle was choreographed. Gengar dominating the Raichu match-up and the feeling Ash was actually in control made for a satisfying battle. Especially compared to subsequent battles where I don't buy Ash's wins.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

I wonder what this Universe could've been like?

https://twitter.com/THSinaz_Art/status/1539359206951862273?t=sMAuccDVuXAc3hY8teuuSA&s=19

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I wonder what this Universe could've been like?

https://twitter.com/THSinaz_Art/status/1539359206951862273?t=sMAuccDVuXAc3hY8teuuSA&s=19

Different.

 

[Sheep]

I wonder what this Universe could've been like?

https://twitter.com/THSinaz_Art/status/1539359206951862273?t=sMAuccDVuXAc3hY8teuuSA&s=19

Thiago makes some great art, him and Lukas are both amazing fanartists for pokeani fans I'm going to try getting a commission from one of them at some point when they're available. Really wish we could've at least seen Gloria and Victor in the anime (Gloria especially tbh)... I guess I can't discount it yet since the series isn't over but I'm not so sure at this point sadly.

 

[Emmy]

^ Maybe it's just me, but Gloria doesn't seem to translate well into Journeys' art style.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

^ Maybe it's just me, but Gloria doesn't seem to translate well into Journeys' art style.

Given how everyone else looks, Gloria would've just probably looked like her Game Artwork

All too often I see Fan artists make the characters look like Ash but it's clear that JN is trying to emulate Ken Sugimori's style as closely as possible

It's especially noticable with Iris

This is Ken Sugimori's style

Now Let's Compare and Contrast shall we?


Pokemon Journeys Style

Best Wishes style

Which one looks more closer to Iris' Game Artwork?

 

[Chilon]

I don't see the problem with 2 on 2 I don't think it's good that we're seeing two against two. That's a disaster from my point of view. Either a trainer has a signature Pokemon or none at all but watch it then it's ko, great next Pokemon, over.

 

[Sai]

The difference is that those two-on-two League matches were usually qualifying rounds for the actual tournament. Then it was three-on-three matches and then full battles for the later rounds of the League. There's no consistency like that with the PWC. Even in the Hyper Class, we still got a one-on-one battles. Going back and forth on what format they wanted to use for each match just made it feel like a mess.

I'm not saying that two-on-two battles are automatically bad. Ash vs. Korrina was the first PWC match that I actually enjoyed and I thought that the first two Bea matches were pretty solid too. Ash vs. Iris wasn't bad, but I do think it was a bit too rushed and probably would have been more enjoyable as a three-on-three match instead. As much as I hate the one shot character matches, I did like the battles Sirfetch'd had prior to its evolution too. My main problem is that winning a one-on-one match and arguably two-on-two matches as well just doesn't come off as particularly impressive. It's really hard to make defeating one or two Pokemon feel like a huge accomplishment. And considering the the bulk of the PWC was built on these kind of matches, that's a problem. Defeating three Pokemon or half of a full team is generally more effective. It gives both side a chance to potentially show off their skills, give their Pokemon more chances to shine and can make the victory feel more impressive/earned.

Obviously, none of that is guaranteed either. There are plenty of bad battles throughout the anime's run even if they are three-on-three. I just think that kind of format is more ideal and would have helped to make Ash climbing the ranks to the Master Class feel more impressive, as well as making the PWC feel like living up to the hype fans created for it.

I think 2 on 2 was fine for all the early matches. Many Gym battles and some of the early league battles (like the first rounds in the Hoenn league if I remember right) were only 2 on 2. The semi-finals in Alola were 2 on 2 as well. Overall the number of pokemon used isn't really an issue, for example Candice's Gym in DP was a 4 on 4 and a lot of it was kinda rushed so it didn't matter. 3 on 3 or more doesn't make it feel any more or less important.