Review JN117: VS Shirona! Iris's Road to Dragon Master!!

[Sai]

I still prefer the Lance/Diantha one in terms of strategy but this was fine. I really don't mind the lack of dodging tbh.

 

[Handy Man]

Iris said that she will join Goh in watching Ash vs. Steven in the audience, I’m looking forward to Iris interacting with Goh and Hop! I’m hoping this snowballs into all of Ash’s friends watching together in person by the time Ash vs. Leon happens.

 

[Sai]

She did say that? I'm really glad she and especially Alan are sticking around. Especially given Lance seems to have left?

I hope them keeping Alan around in particular will lead to something with Ash since they could of just sent him off too.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Man, Iris sure came a long way to the point where she's literally gone toe to toe with the very champion she went up against before a while back.

Pretty tense and enjoyable episode, might be my favourite of this whole Masters Eight schtick unless either Steven, Cynthia herself or Leon find a way to top it but we'll see.

Also Lance is apparently too edgy to watch his other Champion pals now since he left last episode (even Alain is still here and he was the first to say bye bye to his position), dude's gotta get out of his serious phase at some point.

 

[Reborn Talonflame]

Also Lance is apparently too edgy to watch his other Champion pals now since he left last episode (even Alain is still here and he was the first to say bye bye to his position), dude's gotta get out of his serious phase at some point.

My head-cannon/totally separate dimension is that Lance has to govern two whole regions. Whilst the other Champions can afford to spend their time away thanks to their respective E4’s and police force, Lance’s would be stretched thin over so much space. In the event he wins and progresses, perhaps they would just have to cover longer, and as soon as he’s out it’s a matter of getting over there quickly to balance it.
That, or he has a lot of challengers to his throne considering it is two regions.

 

[Sai]

At least Lance spoke to Ash once before he left.

 

[LeonMagnus]

Iris said that she will join Goh in watching Ash vs. Steven in the audience, I’m looking forward to Iris interacting with Goh and Hop! I’m hoping this snowballs into all of Ash’s friends watching together in person by the time Ash vs. Leon happens.

So I’m assuming this implies that they don’t want to leave Goh stranded? Not sure why Hop isn’t good enough. But yeah looking forward to their interactions regardless.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

A nice bit of detail I learned while watching the subs: Haxorus was apparently the Pokémon that won Iris her Champion title. Hardly a surprise, but still nice to know.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

One thing I find amusing about Dragonite’s losses is that they get more and more unceremonious over time. First he loses a fierce fight with a freshly evolved Krookodile. Then he loses to two Druddigon, both guided by experienced dragon masters. Then he gets bullied around by Ash’s Charizard, who is Ash’s fucking Charizard.

And then he gets turned into a fish’s chewing toy and later bonked in the head too hard by another, bigger fish. Dragonite thalassophobia arc when?

 

[Soniman]

Her Dragonite hasn't won a battle since beating Dawn's Mamoswine in BW. It had to have won off-screen so Iris rise to champion make sense but it lost every on-screen battle.

Her Dragonite lost to Ash's Krookodile, Drayden, Claire, Charizard almost beat it before N stopped the battle, the genies, Dracovish and now Milotic.

Basically Dragonite has better winning chances the less he listened to Iris, it’s a Pokémon who’s arc had no real resolution and simply started sucking in battle, very strange.

I actually think Torterra might not be the worst anymore

 

[Alola]

One of the reasons Cynthia is my favorite Champion is because at the end of the day, she's a Trainer first - and she always carries that mentality with her in every game she appears in. That she did it again here, choosing to not acknowledge her status as a Champion or regional representative like Lance, Diantha, and Iris did, looked quite impressive to me. She looks past accolades and focuses and respects the person across from her purely as an opponent. And between her earlier comment as well as praise for Iris throughout and after the fight, we saw just that. Also, the ominous track that played with Garchomp's appearance was crazy, but fitting; I love how everyone (fans, writers, developers) acknowledge what a beast her Garchomp is.

As for Iris, it must be wonderful to be an Iris fan right now; I think Journeys has treated her well, which is something I don't think most of us would have expected within the first year of the series. I already commented on how strong her Haxorus is, but I just want to acknowledge again that she battled so well up until this point; bypassing Gastrodon's bulk and enhanced defenses with an OHKO move was nice to see. And speaking of Excadrill, its one time out of animation retirement saw it get a definitive win, which was awesome. I'm glad the writers recalled that "battle" Axew had way back when against Garchomp; the comparison made the growth that much staggering. Outrage successfully repelling a Draco Meteor this time, whereas it failed to before, was also nice to see; man, I just wanted to give the very hard-working Haxorus a big hug at the end.

While I liked this episode, I did have some shortcomings. Notably, Dragonite. As people have already mentioned, the poor thing is probably the ultimate jobber and Torterra 2.0; ever since it started listening to Iris, it's never had an on-screen victory. And that's a crying shame, given how its was marketed as the Blood Knight of Iris' party. It really should have tied with Milotic, in my opinion (also, what a missed opportunity to activate Marvel Scale in response to Thunder Punch paralysis); a double knockout wouldn't have taken away from Haxorus' strength and the growth the writers were trying to portray; and yet again, we have a Dragonite in this tournament that refuses to fly and use said ability to its advantage - I can only hope Ash's remembers the appendages on its back. There was also the Iris crying scene, but I won't belabor that - I am happy that she's decided to watch the next match with Go, though; it takes me back to when Ash's party would be cheering for him during a regional Pokémon League. Lastly, I expected the animation to be more dynamic and fluid; less stills & unconnected frames, as we saw during Dragon Claw Vs. Psycho Cut; and less shots of Morpeko eating, please. Maybe, since these battles were never meant to be animated, the Ash battles will all be better at least.

Other odd bits:

• Team Rocket somewhat joking that all the battles they had with Iris was what led to her current strength would have much more weight if BW wasn't the saga where they interacted with Ash's party the least. Or is that SM? Anyway, you get my point. Still, I found their lines amusing and I appreciated them. Them being sad at her loss was sweet.
• Hop continuing to be blown away that Ash personally knows all of the Champions continues to be charming.
• Lance really left, didn't he? He could at least have stayed for the rest of the preliminary matches. I'm glad Alain has, at least.
• Cilan not being present to watch Iris' battle was jarring. I fully expected the cameo camera to cut to him in his restaurant with his brothers... Then again, none of Ash's close friends have been shown watching any of the Masters 8 battles so far. I'm assuming we'll see them towards the end? Either way, there goes my hope of a May & Max cameo for next week...

 

[Sai]

Interesting to note the Goodra in the flashback in Iris' first episode was likely Claire's, otherwise we probably would have had her use it here. It also confirms Iris used her Gible against Claire and it apparently never evolved. (Funnily enough Gible is her only pokemon that hasn't appeared outside a flashback this series).

Dragonite losing is funny to me because of how overhyped it was when it first appeared in BW, that's why a lot of people didn't like Dawn's Mamoswine losing to it back then. Now the weird ice immunity is gone (justifying Dracovish's win), and even in general it's not as strong as people thought. Drayden, Claire, Krookodile, and now Cynthia have all beaten it. I like they gave a win to Excadrill for being her first pokemon

 

[Dogasu]

And the wonder why they have population issues when simple physical contact is so taboo even in the most logical circumstances lol

You only think it's "logical" because you're a Westerner (I'm assuming) who grew up in a culture where hugging is the norm.

From a Japanese point of view Satoshi hugging Iris wouldn't exactly have been "taboo" but it wouldn't have been expected either.

 

[Audino1008]

The Anime randomly tries really hard to be emotional, but at the same time it tries really hard to not be emotional.
What I mean is, I wish they were more direct at the end. I really expected her to hug Ash or something but he just stood there and watched her cry. I know people already said they wish Ash hugged her while she was crying but I actually really expected the opposite.
Anyway, we already discussed how Japanese culture is different from the west in that regard on the review thread for the Serena episode, with the Amphibia comparisons and whatnot. I still find it a bit jarring that he didn't at least put his hand on her shoulder or something or even got closer, he stood so far away from her, but I'll be respectful since I don't really know Japanese taboos all that well.

But they could've been more direct in the vocal department. Ash went to "cheer her up" but he just came, said "You lost, huh? That sucks" and that's it. I wish he would've said something like "You'll be stronger next time" or especially "But it's amazing you got so close to beating Cynthia." Like seriously, why did nobody aknowledge how close Iris got to winning? It's such an achievement, someone should've aknowledged it. For some reason Team Rocket's random comments were the most emotionally direct.

Anyway, the battle was good. Definitely better than the previous one, and I don't think it's even questionable that it's better than the first one. Enjoyed this episode a lot.

 

[Audino1008]

Live footage of me trying to recognize the Unova cameos:

Spongebob Squarepants - Who Are You People!?

Excellent question Shelton

youtu.be

A bit surprised that Cilan didn't put in an appearance

Probably keeping him for the predictable "all of Ash's companions watch his final battle against Leon"

 

[Sai]

You only think it's "logical" because you're a Westerner (I'm assuming) who grew up in a culture where hugging is the norm.

From a Japanese point of view Satoshi hugging Iris wouldn't exactly have been "taboo" but it wouldn't have been expected either.

They could have at least had Ash put his hand on Iris' shoulder. As mentioned the whole scene was very similar to May's loss to Solidad at the end of AG. May bursts into tears and then Ash and Brock walk over to her and at least place their hands on her shoulder.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I definitely wasn't expecting Ash and Iris's interactions in the hallway to become such a talking point. Huh.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Cynthia, perfect Champion, dignified Queen, heavenly angel...I bow down before you and your glory

This was by far the greatest Master Tournament battle and if the PWC ended right now, I'd be totally fine and blissfully happy.
The battle combined everything that you would expect and as such outclasses the previous two :
Pure power, strategy, surprising tricks and class. And all these qualities are epitomized by wonderful Cynthia (and partly by Iris too. You see, I do respect Iris because Cynthia does, too)

Cynthia didn't destroy her but at least got the job done.

I wouldn't say so. On the contrary! I'd say Cynthia totally dominated Iris in the first part of the battle, especially when Milotic easily and quickly took out two of Iris' Pokemon in a row. Gastrodon getting defeated was a lucky punch because the OHKO-move Horn Drill happened to work. But even before that, Cynthia was in total control of the battle. This is exactly what Alain vs. Leon should have looked like, but in a realistic, plausible way!
Of course, the battle needed to get less one-sided later on when Haxorus entered the stage, because otherwise they would have made the same terrible mistakes like in the introductory battle. So, it goes wihout saying (and I definitely expected that) Haxorus had to be displayed strong, so that it could show his development and keep up with Garchomp at least for a while.
But let me go into detail now:

Gastrodon vs. Excadrill:
Cynthia cleverly used weather and power-up moves to fully control the battle. Gastrodon's stamina was remarkable! Iris was about to lose that battle and had no chance but to go all or nothing and rely on a lucky punch ...which happened to work. And although I don't like to see one of Cynthia's Pokemon get defeated, I was ok with it (kind of) because our Queen battled wonderfully and there's simply no remedy against a lucky punch, or a OHKO-move in that case.

Milotic vs. Excadrill and Dragonite:
Milotic was an absolute beast. It quickly took out Excadrill and then left Iris' second dragon no chance. Milotic wrapping around Dragonite after weakening it with a super-effective Fairy-type move, leaving the latter completely immobilzed already looked bad for sure. But the subsequent Iron Head at close range was just brutal and super intense. I loved it. That's our Cynthia's might!

Garchomp vs. Haxorus:
Wow, just wow! A battle full of superlatives.
First of all, did you notice how Cynthia talks with dignity during battles? As opposed to other champions she's totally down to earth and doesn't put on airs and graces, not even in the least bit. Then she doesn't just say "Gastrodon, come out" or "Garchomp, use Draco Meteor". No, she puts it poetically by saying "Emerge from the waves" or "Shower upon us, stars from the heavens". Wonderful, just wonderful! Not only is she almost perfect as a person and has the highest rank that any other Pokemon trainer in the show can aim for, she also talks like a true Champion and Queen.
Then the next highlight was that epic, incredible piece of music playing when Garchomp entered the stage! And although it took the writers over 1.000 episodes to finally introduce such epic music, I kept hoping for that dream to finally came true! (The second dream that came true after Cynthia being called dignified Queen of Sinnoh last week) What awe-inspring, epic music that perfectly introduced Garchomp, the beast, whose battles were called legendary by the announcer Considering that not even Leon has got such a fantastic piece of music, it's clear that nobody else deserved it but Cynthia and her wonderful Pokemon.
The next great moment was that lipstick scene where Cynthia surprised us all by revealing there was a Key Stone hidden inside her lipstick. Even here, Cynthia not just mega-evolves her Pokemon but does it with style and grace. This woman is a heavenly piece of art, a masterpiece!
Yes it was clear to me that Iris needed to get some power boost by the writers when sending in Haxorus, so her last Pokemon could keep up with Garchomp. So, it wasn't suprising that Haxorus appeared to be especially strong. But, of course, Cynthia deciding to mega-evolve her partner does not mean she couldn't have defeated Haxorus just with Garchomp, too! The writers needed to add some extra portion of excitement and by having Haxorus battle against Mega-Garchomp they wanted to emphasize Iris' progress.
And finally, after a visually spectacular showdown between the Queen's ace and her former apprentice's ace, I loved the interaction between the two ladies! Iris' strong bond between her and her Pokemon which she expressed by saying that she loved all her Pokemon was really touching. And it appeared to me that Cynthia almost felt sorry for having to defeat her former student. She showed her deepest respect by calling Iris "marvellous" and the battle "unforgettable". Wow!
I absolutely want Cynthia and Iris to stay best friends and training partners after the tournament.

To sum up: Cynthia respects Iris, and so do I. My respect for Iris' achievements and all the glory to Cynthia, the dignified Queen who has once again proven why she ultimately is the greatest. I'm completely happy and excited, what a wonderful day!

One of the reasons Cynthia is my favorite Champion is because at the end of the day, she's a Trainer first - and she always carries that mentality with her in every game she appears in. That she did it again here, choosing to not acknowledge her status as a Champion or regional representative like Lance, Diantha, and Iris did, looked quite impressive to me. She looks past accolades and focuses and respects the person across from her purely as an opponent. And between her earlier comment as well as praise for Iris throughout and after the fight, we saw just that. Also, the ominous track that played with Garchomp's appearance was crazy, but fitting; I love how everyone (fans, writers, developers) acknowledge what a beast her Garchomp is.

I'd like to thank you for those great lines that describe Cynthia and her Pokemon wonderfully

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

As opposed to other champions she's totally down to earth and doesn't put on airs and graces, not even in the least bit. Then she doesn't just say "Gastrodon, come out" or "Garchomp, use Draco Meteor". No, she puts it poetically by saying "Emerge from the waves" or "Shower upon us, stars from the heavens".

These sentences seem a little contradictory…

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Loved the dramatic staredown at the end where Garchomp didn't even take an attack from Haxorus, yet they play it as if either one of them could drop

Also does the -2 SPA debuff from Draco Meteor not exist, or...?