Pokemon Journeys: Thoughts So Far

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Hey, guys, I just had a thought. Considering how fast-paced Journeys is going, and there's supposedly about two or so years left, do you think they'll do a rehash of the Decalore Islands arc from Unova and rush the PWC? I mean, they're already rushing it, so this just seems like a strong possibility...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Hey, guys, I just had a thought. Considering how fast-paced Journeys is going, and there's supposedly about two or so years left, do you think they'll do a rehash of the Decalore Islands arc from Unova and rush the PWC? I mean, they're already rushing it, so this just seems like a strong possibility...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Please no Filler Islands

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Hey, guys, I just had a thought. Considering how fast-paced Journeys is going, and there's supposedly about two or so years left, do you think they'll do a rehash of the Decalore Islands arc from Unova and rush the PWC? I mean, they're already rushing it, so this just seems like a strong possibility...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

oh no

Oh no!

Oh nooooooooo!

That'd be the ultimate death knell of this series.

 

[skiittylalis]

Hey, guys, I just had a thought. Considering how fast-paced Journeys is going, and there's supposedly about two or so years left, do you think they'll do a rehash of the Decalore Islands arc from Unova and rush the PWC? I mean, they're already rushing it, so this just seems like a strong possibility...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

im fulling expecting the pwc to be done by next year. why?? april 1st of 2022 is the animes 25th anniversary and it falls on a friday, so theres no way they wont try to make the final ash vs leon battle on that day because the opportunity is there and i can only guess theyve taken it considering how fast, disjointed, and horribly the pwcs been paced

the decalore islands was about ash and friends hopping around islands and doing nothing of value because the writers didnt know what to do....... hmmmm, if i replace islands with "regions" i cant help but think of a certain series........

as for what i think a possible journeys decalore islands season could look like?? maybe goh is put front and center most the time as ash serves his role as background character #6829 and becomes gohs cheerleader and they do their region jumping thing so goh can catch more pokemon....... just imagine the current state of the series but so much worse we all wonder "what bad choices did i make in my life for this to happen"

 

[Silktree]

No. The Hyper Class is the main focus of the PWC and could easily take up two years, with the Master 8 tournament taking us to the end of 2023. Ash isn't going to blow through several Elite Four battles in just a year. In 1.5 years we've had:

5 2vs2 battles against gym leaders (including a rematch)
2 1vs1 battles featuring Farfetch'd
Smaller stuff, mostly off-screen

This is neither rushed nor slow (I've seen both claims), but we're only now approaching the 3vs3 territory with more advanced trainers. Ash will need to do more training and I dare say it's time he brought back some reserves.

 

[Hidden Mew]

No. The Hyper Class is the main focus of the PWC and could easily take up two years, with the Master 8 tournament taking us to the end of 2023. Ash isn't going to blow through several Elite Four battles in just a year. In 1.5 years we've had:

5 2vs2 battles against gym leaders (including a rematch)
2 1vs1 battles featuring Farfetch'd
Smaller stuff, mostly off-screen

I thought that Ash has only battled against three Gym Leaders up to this point. Including the rematch with Bea, I think that's only four battles against Gym Leaders. What is the fifth battle you're referring to?

This is neither rushed nor slow (I've seen both claims), but we're only now approaching the 3vs3 territory with more advanced trainers. Ash will need to do more training and I dare say it's time he brought back some reserves.

Where are the signs that there are three-on-three matches in the future though? Even in the Master Class battles we've seen thus far, they're still one-on-one matches. As much as I'd like to see them have three-on-three matches, if only because the matches would ideally be longer and the main focus of an episode, I don't think that they're going to do that. I'm really not sure if they'd bother to devote more focus to the PWC when the vast majority of Ash's progress has been done off-screen. That doesn't give me the impression that they're going to give more focus to it now that the Hyper Class is going to be full of a smaller group of advanced trainers compared to the lower classes.

I also can't see them bringing back his reserves. I'm not against it. It would be cool to see Ash's older Pokemon, especially fan favorites or ones that desperately need more attention, but I don't see it happening. It would just make me wonder what was the point of giving him strong Pokemon like Dragonite and Gengar right off the bat if they were eventually just going to bring in his reserves for the higher classes.

 

[game3524]

I think they rushed through the lower classes because it wasn’t narratively important. The field narrows in the Hyper Class and Ash will face trainers who are more on his level. I expect them to take more time in the Hyper Class and it may be a big attraction for next year’s anniversary. 8 Hyper Class battles with a prominent rep from each generation doesn’t seem unrealistic.

 

[Mew2]

I think they rushed through the lower classes because it wasn’t narratively important. The field narrows in the Hyper Class and Ash will face trainers who are more on his level. I expect them to take more time in the Hyper Class and it may be a big attraction for next year’s anniversary. 8 Hyper Class battles with a prominent rep from each generation doesn’t seem unrealistic.

So, in a scenario where there are eight Hyper Class battles with a representative from each generation, who would you have as the rep for each generation? Gary is almost certainly going to be the Gen 1 rep but who else do you think Ash would face in the Hyper Class?

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think they rushed through the lower classes because it wasn’t narratively important. The field narrows in the Hyper Class and Ash will face trainers who are more on his level. I expect them to take more time in the Hyper Class and it may be a big attraction for next year’s anniversary. 8 Hyper Class battles with a prominent rep from each generation doesn’t seem unrealistic.

I don't know. As cool as having eight Hyper Class battles against prominent reps from each generation sounds, I can't really see them doing that when we barely saw any Gym Leaders in the lower classes and they easily could have included more Gym Leaders instead of primarily random one shot trainers. Saving it for the anime's anniversary sounds like a pretty weak excuse too. It would help to make the Hyper Class stand out more, but rushing through the first two classes personally just makes me much less interested in the PWC than I would be if they actually showed more of Ash's progress and they had longer matches. Given Journeys' fast pace in general, I'd be kind of shocked if we got more than two-on-two matches.

 

[game3524]

I don't know. As cool as having eight Hyper Class battles against prominent reps from each generation sounds, I can't really see them doing that when we barely saw any Gym Leaders in the lower classes and they easily could have included more Gym Leaders instead of primarily random one shot trainers. Saving it for the anime's anniversary sounds like a pretty weak excuse too. It would help to make the Hyper Class stand out more, but rushing through the first two classes personally just makes me much less interested in the PWC than I would be if they actually showed more of Ash's progress and they had longer matches. Given Journeys' fast pace in general, I'd be kind of shocked if we got more than two-on-two matches.

They didn't bother having Ash take on a few gym leaders in the Normal and Great Class because the lower classes wasn't a priority for them. This is why they had Ash pretty much do most of it off-screen. The Hyper Class is different IMO. I think they are going to prioritize it more since it really is the meat of the PWC. The Master 8 on the other hand is just another league arc, while the Hyper Class, I think they will be a faster paced gym challenge.

So, in a scenario where there are eight Hyper Class battles with a representative from each generation, who would you have as the rep for each generation? Gary is almost certainly going to be the Gen 1 rep but who else do you think Ash would face in the Hyper Class?

Gen 1: Gary
Gen 2: Karen
Gen 3: Norman
Gen 4: Flint
Gen 5: Shauntel
Gen 6 and 7 are a bit harder to come up with some reps. So I can easily see them doubling up on Kanto/Galar reps in favor of those two generations.
Gen 8: Bea

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Gen 5: Shauntel

Why not Iris? She's from Gen 5, the anime, and is actually confirmed to be in the PWC.

 

[game3524]

Why not Iris? She's from Gen 5, the anime, and is actually confirmed to be in the PWC.

Because I expect Ash to beat Iris. If he loses, then sure she would make sense for a rematch.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

Is there any evidence that Journeys will only last another 1 or 2 years? Or are fans just basing this off of the pattern of previous sagas despite it being obvious that this saga does things much differently than normal more often than not?

As I've said before this series has issues but I'm mostly okay with it. But lately one thing that has bugged me is the returning characters and how most of them only hang out for 1 episode and then leave. That's what we got with Chuck, Wikstrom, Korrina and Mewtwo and I bet Iris and Gary will be treated the same way.

Also why did we get a Chuck appearance of all things but not debuts of video game characters that alot of fans want to finally see animated like Drasna, Sidney, Karen, Will, Phoebe, the Chatelaines, Shauntal, Zinnia, etc?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Is there any evidence that Journeys will only last another 1 or 2 years? Or are fans just basing this off of the pattern of previous sagas despite it being obvious that this saga does things much differently than normal more often than not?

We don't usually have evidence for how long a series will last beyond when new generations are announced. While Journeys is doing things differently, I personally have a hard time seeing it lasting more than three years, mainly due to its fast pace and decisions with both Ash and Goh. People speculate that it will last through multiple generations, but I have a hard time believing that as well, especially with Goh's first Pokemon being Scorbunny and becoming more associated with the Galar starters. Granted, with the release of Legends Arceus making people unsure when the ninth generation games will be released, that could make Journeys lasting for four years more plausible too. I'd still find decisions like rushing through the PWC and giving Goh a Cinderace within the first year of the series really baffling if they even had some idea that the series would last for four years though.

As I've said before this series has issues but I'm mostly okay with it. But lately one thing that has bugged me is the returning characters and how most of them only hang out for 1 episode and then leave. That's what we got with Chuck, Wikstrom, Korrina and Mewtwo and I bet Iris and Gary will be treated the same way.

Also why did we get a Chuck appearance of all things but not debuts of video game characters that alot of fans want to finally see animated like Drasna, Sidney, Karen, Will, Phoebe, the Chatelaines, Shauntal, Zinnia, etc?

I'd be somewhat surprised if Mewtwo doesn't appear again, if only because of how popular it is, but I do hope that we'll get to have returning characters so up for more than one episode. Personally, I'd prefer for them to debut more Galar characters instead of other trainers from previous games. There are a lot of characters tat would be nice to see animated, but I just really wish that it wouldn't come at the expense of seeing new favorite characters from the new games too.

 

[Daren]

I was suspecting that Journeys would last more than one generation for a while with the Japanese name and easily-extended premise, but the increasing breakneck speed of the PWC and certain other development has me more doubtful.

Granted, with the release of Legends Arceus making people unsure when the ninth generation games will be released, that could make Journeys lasting for four years more plausible too. I'd still find decisions like rushing through the PWC and giving Goh a Cinderace within the first year of the series really baffling if they even had some idea that the series would last for four years though.

It's possible they had no idea about Legends and it's thrown a curve ball into their original plan for a three year series--we do know the last year of XY moved quickly because of them finding out they weren't getting a fourth.
It's also possible even with Sw/Sh+DLC+Legends that gen 8 will only get three years....but if so I have a bad feeling about the shape of gen 9.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It's possible they had no idea about Legends and it's thrown a curve ball into their original plan for a three year series--we do know the last year of XY moved quickly because of them finding out they weren't getting a fourth.
It's also possible even with Sw/Sh+DLC+Legends that gen 8 will only get three years....but if so I have a bad feeling about the shape of gen 9.

It's certainly possible that they weren't aware of Legends until nearly the last minute, but there are a lot of decisions that would still baffle me if their original plan was to make this a three year long series like usual. I don't know why they'd choose to evolve Scorbunny so fast or have Ash make a ton of off-screen progress as opposed to pacing out both Ash and Goh's goals more evenly if they had more of a general structure in mind for Journeys. I've seen people speculate that Legends coming out in early 2022 would mean that we'll still get the next generation next fall, which may not be a bad sign depending on when that development started and what teams they have working on both sets of games.

 

[Daren]

It's certainly possible that they weren't aware of Legends until nearly the last minute, but there are a lot of decisions that would still baffle me if their original plan was to make this a three year long series like usual. I don't know why they'd choose to evolve Scorbunny so fast or have Ash make a ton of off-screen progress as opposed to pacing out both Ash and Goh's goals more evenly if they had more of a general structure in mind for Journeys. I've seen people speculate that Legends coming out in early 2022 would mean that we'll still get the next generation next fall, which may not be a bad sign depending on when that development started and what teams they have working on both sets of games.

I can think of possible explanations for all of this though a lot of it is contingent on what actually happens--although even then sometimes plans get derailed by unforeseen circumstances.

For instance, the Darkest Day may have been done quickly to avoid it fighting with the Master Eight and Mew for screentime later on when they only have a year left and need to wrap things up (assuming they knew early on how the Alola League would end I wonder if that's why Nihilego was done so early in Sun and Moon--so they could take plenty of time on the Alola League and the battle with Professor Kukui. It's probably what I'd have done in their place considering the many uncertainties with making this series--best to have as few loose ends as possible when something that important is on the line). And an early Darkest Day could explain Scorbunny's rushed evolution since they wanted him fully evolved to be Lucario's counterpart.

The handling of the PWC is a bit trickier; the easy explanation is they figured Ash would not have too much trouble in the first few ranks and watching lots of easy wins would be boring (like some of those montage wins we see in tournaments at times), but if Hyper gets similar treatment it'll be more difficult to explain.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I can think of possible explanations for all of this though a lot of it is contingent on what actually happens--although even then sometimes plans get derailed by unforeseen circumstances.

For instance, the Darkest Day may have been done quickly to avoid it fighting with the Master Eight and Mew for screentime later on when they only have a year left and need to wrap things up (assuming they knew early on how the Alola League would end I wonder if that's why Nihilego was done so early in Sun and Moon--so they could take plenty of time on the Alola League and the battle with Professor Kukui. It's probably what I'd have done in their place considering the many uncertainties with making this series--best to have as few loose ends as possible when something that important is on the line). And an early Darkest Day could explain Scorbunny's rushed evolution since they wanted him fully evolved to be Lucario's counterpart.

It's hard to say how far they planned the Darkest Day arc considering that it had pretty minimal buildup, which is a huge shame in my opinion. I know that fans don't tend to like that plot and I can understand why, but I don't think it was really that bad. I thought that it was fine. Granted, I think a lot of its strengths come from Hop and to a degree Sonia's character developments. Without seeing Hop's arc or getting to see Sonia more invested in researching about the Legendary Pokemon of Galar, I think that it would lose a lot of its appeal, at least from how I experienced it through the games. Having their homebase in Galar or at least making Sonia appear a few times before the Darkest Day arc could have helped a lot in regards to its buildup. The notion that they wanted Cinderace to be Lucario's counterpart does make sense though.

The handling of the PWC is a bit trickier; the easy explanation is they figured Ash would not have too much trouble in the first few ranks and watching lots of easy wins would be boring (like some of those montage wins we see in tournaments at times), but if Hyper gets similar treatment it'll be more difficult to explain.

That would be a pretty weak reason, especially when I think the vast majority of Ash's PWC matches have been boring as it is. Plus, they could have easily fixed that by giving him a rival sooner, making the battles longer and/or making him battle against Gym Leaders again so that he wouldn't just have easy wins against one-shot characters. I don't think having some off-screen battles would have necessarily been a problem if we still saw most of Ash's progress, but considering how he climbed hundreds of ranks off-screen, I don't think we did. Even if the Hyper Class doesn't get similar treatment, putting the first two classes on the back burner practically was a terrible idea. If they're willing to have so many off-screen battles, then it just makes me wonder why I should bother being invested in this new goal. Not to mention it makes the notion of Ash getting a chance to battle some high ranked trainers less satisfying when we skipped the vast majority of his progress to get there.

 

[nickdt]

They can have representatives for the regions in past rivals Ash had in the hyper class, even if they are anime exclusive.
Gary - Johto (While Gary is from Kanto, the rivalry didn't become a full fledged thing until Johto)
Kanto - Ritchie (But they can potentially bring back Orange Islands Drake back as well).
Hoenn - Either Tyson or Harrisson
Sinnoh - Barry (Ash still has to face him in an official battle)
Unova - Virgil (Although i don't think this one is as likely as the others, because he won a regional league)
Kalos - Tierno (Was set up to become Ash's main rival, he didn't even face him in the league) or Korrina (Although i doubt it, since Ash has defeated her twice already, him losing to her in Hyper Class, only regresses him and makes his previous win against her in the PWC pointless)
Alola - Kiawe (Still have to fight in an official battle)
Galar - Bea/Hop.

 

[Vulpes Incarnatus]

@Hidden Mew a question. a lot of your posts constantly dump on the concept of PWC and yet when there's a chance that it'll improve, you look down on that chance or hope and be so pessimistic.

it's like you want the PWC to be a failure, and by extension, Ash's progression?