Bulbagarden

Yes, the whole "attitude" of GF towards the Emerald elements in ORAS seems to be a nod to Emerald and a hint that the events will indeed occur.

For the Entry Call function, I see no issue. It's in development, and will be available when/if finished.

But specifically for the Battle Frontier, I could see this being the in- game reason/excuse why the BF wasn't in ORAS. It never was completed after the events of ORAS. Sure, Scott is scouting people, and Pike Queen has been scouted already. But the whole thing hasn't been built, and is eventually cancelled because it bothered the Smeargles in Artisan Cave.

Sure, it's a floppy reason, but just like their excuse Takao Unno gave for why the E4 members were not participating in the PWT: they have to guard their regions while the champ and gym leaders are away.

But what's so bad about the current in-game "excuse," which is that it's only just starting construction? ORAS plants numerous seeds for "Mega Emerald" that we will never see the result of. It doesn't really matter one way or the other whether the Frontier gets completed, but I don't really see any impetus for thinking it won't.

Though your idea in itself, about them minding the Smeargle habitat, is very in-keeping with the themes of ORAS. So in hypothetical terms, I do like your thinking there - I just don't see what necessitates it.

That's interesting about the PWT; I had never heard that before. *But*, I don't think that's such a flimsy excuse. It makes sense to me - there *should* be somebody to keep an eye on internal affairs while the other players are out of town. And there is even a precedent for it in BW - Alder was said to have ordered the E4 to guard the League while he went on walkabout.

Times like these, I wish I could ask them questions about random trivia bits.

Hey man, slightly off topic of the conversation, but since we are discussing timelines and cannon, etc... I was wondering, what's your opinion of the Emerald elements not included in ORAS? I don't mean the Battle Frontier, which absence was already explained by Masuda. I mean the rest of features like:

- Gym Leader rematches
- Trainer Hill

And locations like:

- Mirage Tower
- Desert Underpass
- etc.

Do you think they were left out because of laziness/time constraints, or to be chronologically accurate?

I doubt Gym Leader rematches can be justified with the absence of the Match Call, but for the locations specifically... Could it be argued the Mirage Tower hadn't appeared yet, the Desert Underpass hasn's neen excavated yet, etc?

Also, we know BF is cannon now thanks to ORAS. But is Trainer Hill cannon as well? Cause it got no mention or hint at all. So maybe we should count it as a Sevii Island feature that was just copy pasted in Emerald, but not really part of Hoenn?

Also, since you are a Unova fan... How do you think GF would procede with Unova? If they choose the BW timeline, do you think PWT, White Treehollow, etc will not be constructed yet?

I think, for the most part, those things are negligible. I think they *could* have come up with interesting alternative uses for a couple of them (Altering Cave and Trainer Hill in particular - I'm not sure exactly as to what the hypothetical makeovers would entail, but I see some potential in these), but none of them are a huge loss.

You've pointed out that the Safari Zone expansion already kind of occurs on a region-wide scale after the weather crisis. All that the actual extra room in the SZ would do is make the SZ look a little more interesting. So that kind of thing just isn't necessary. And it's kind of the same thing with the aforementioned Altering Cave. Sure, it would add a small point of interest to Rt. 110, but it's nothing major.

I can see why they left out the Desert Underpass; it's a long, empty, boring stretch of road, and all it serves to do is discourage trades with people who picked the opposite Fossil. It made sense in a third version, but not in a paired version. The same applies to the Marine/Terra Caves.

Mirage Tower - that's an interesting one. It's a nifty little dungeon, but it's whole gimmick is being a mini-Sky Pillar... and of course, the Sky Pillar in ORAS got an overhaul that stripped it of its Mach Bike gimmick (I wonder if that could even be properly implemented in the new 3D, full-grid overworld?). So it could have served as a remnant of that sort of obstacle course (assuming that it *could* be implemented), but at the same time... all it does it make you work a bit harder to get your fossil. And I can't really think of any other use they could have given to it that isn't already covered by things like the Pokémon distribution expansion. Therefore, I think it also kind of falls into the category of, "It would make the area more interesting to look at, but what purpose does it serve to justify its inclusion?"

The proper Magma Hideout would have been a nice way to differentiate the games from each other (and makes so much more sense as a hideout for Groudon), but I understand why they didn't go for that. They haven't really ever included that degree of storyline divergence in any paired versions before. Not even HGSS - all those did was vary which mascot's dungeon you visited before heading onto Victory Road. Even though I would like more divergent storylines, I can accept that they aren't doing them that way.

I don't think they were left out due to laziness. It's hard to justify the inclusion of these things alongside the other features like the distribution expansion which preemptively remove much of their function, and at that point, it becomes little more than a matter of aesthetics, and since these were RS remakes, then, yeah, why not err more on the RS side of things?

Story-wise, you could come up with fun little ideas like, as you mention, DU not being excavated yet, the SZ expansion not being planned at all because of the ancient species returning to Hoenn. Trainer Hill obviously wouldn't have been built yet for whatever reason. And it never really made much story sense to have identical Altering Caves in both Hoenn and Kanto, so in this universe, we could assume that there is only the one in the Sevii Islands in Kanto. Amusingly, another thing that was excluded not only from Emerald but also RS - the proper Mirage Island, with the Wynaut and that rare Berry - is mentioned in the map description for Rt. 130 as an old topic of discussion in the area.

On a related note, I wonder what reason could be cooked up for the S.S. Cactus never crashing in Hoenn and becoming the Abandoned Ship.

Regarding BW remakes - I honestly have no clue. I am already uncertain as to whether or not there will be DP remakes, let alone BW which are even more confusing, due to the sequels. They obviously can't remake BW *and* B2W2. So it's a question that invites a LOT of potential discussion in how they go about representing both. Personally, I think for the features, they should lean more on B2W2 - Black City/White Forest weren't handled particularly elegantly in BW, and the Tower/Treehollow were a sufficient replacement, and a fun attraction in their own right. The PWT requires a lot of work, but I would argue that it is one of their most iconic features. Then again, I would have said the same thing about the Battle Frontier... but the PWT is considerably less complicated. I don't know, I could kinda see that one going either way.

Much to my chagrin, I suppose there wouldn't be much of a reason to include the towns and cities from B2W2. Or Reversal Mountain... sadly.

I don't expect that they would include PokéStar Studios (probably a ton of work to include); I think they would most likely just give Musicals an overhaul, like the Contest Spectaculars. However, I could see Join Avenue making it in. It has a lot of potential for connectivity/social interaction, and is ssssssssort of like Unova's equivalent to Secret Bases.

All of this is really making me think, not only "Do we even need BW remakes?", but also, "Would I even want to play them with so much cool stuff missing?" My girlfriend and I both recently started replaying BW and the sequels and honestly, they still handle as well as they ever did.

Thanks, this is the kind of elaborated answer I hoped for.

You see, my whole issue with all those missing features and locations from Emerald, is that I only played Emerald, never RS. So not seeing any of them in ORAS was a negative surprise for me. I did not know a Hoenn region without those features.

My main issue with their absence from ORAS was not that they had to fulfill a significant function (yes, they are not important), but that their absence could disappoint Emerald fans, and is just kinda shocking at first glance: where there used to be a tower, north of Mauville, is now a plain wall of rock (like it was in RS, which I didn't play). Where there was a long underground tunnel, now is a wall. And where was a sand tower, now is nothing. Etc.

But your explanation pleased me a lot, and excuses said absences better. Especially about:

- Safari Zone expansion. I had never looked at the post- weather crisis migration as an upgrade of the Emerald Safari Zone expansion, on region scale. Looking at it from this angle, ORAS didn't have a smaller SZ than Emerald (which is what I thought until now). It is actually just spread across the entire region xD Which makes it bigger than Emerald's. So those two extra SZ levels were just substituted for something better. I never linked those two things until now.

- Desert Underpass: this one makes perfect sense with your explanation. I always kinda forget that the reason Emerald had the ability to get both fossils, was probably because it wasn't a paired version, like RS is. So it appears that the whole reason why the DU existed in E, is because Emerald isn't a a pair game.

- Groudon and Kyogre special caves: same as Desert Underpass, I guess? Paired version rules. (Am I bein greedy for wanting the opposite version legendary in the post game?xD)

- Altering Cave was an unused event in both FRLG and Emerald, iirc.
Edit: IIRC Emerald's Safari Zone addition, host said undistributed Altering Cave Pokemon event. So this could be the very reason the Safari was expanded in Emerald, making it even less cannon for potential Hoenn remakes.

- Mirage Tower: this one I think could have been included. Just cause it's cool. But if, chronologically in the cannon, it never appeared before Emerald's events, it would justify it's absence.

- Magma Hideout: Yeah, this one should've been included in OR for common sense, but since I have Alpha Sapphire, it didn't affect MY gameplay at least

As for the SS Cactus... I guess it just didn't move on the same water route like in RSE?

A few more things popped up in my head:

- Juan: was he left out because they couldn't find where to fit him in the story? Could've he been in the post game?

- Pokemon like Wailord and Swellow are not found in the wild in ORAS. Maybe to make the region less "threatening" for newbie players? Idk.

- Also: do you consider Emerald's Trainer Hill as an Emerald feature? Or a variation of the FRLG Tower? Because if we count it as a copied FRLG feature, it's absence from ORAS could be excused...

About Unova remakes: Agreed. If they struggled to find balance between RS and Emerald, finding balance between BW and the sequels would be ten times more complicated for them.

They *could* go for sequels occurring after the Gen V sequels, where the player meets the Original Dragon.

Or, they could not remake them at all because BW2 is so good and up to date as it is.

If it was remade though, I think if not the features, like PWT or Pokewood, at least the region expansion should be included. Entire towns amd routes disappearing, would be WAY more shocking than a tunnel not being excavated yet xD

I certainly think Gen V would be the hardest to remake, which could just stop them from remaking it.

I never knew you hadn't played RS. With how much you like Hoenn, I kind of just assumed. However, I think that puts you in a comparatively unique position. From the outset, I think it is fair to say that ORAS are clearly more intent on riding the wave of RS nostalgia and attempting to appeal more directly to the people who played *those* games, and not being a "remake of the remake" in a sense,. Because that's what third versions are, more or less, is "remakes" that come in the same generation. But RS are considerably more iconic as all opening pairs are, because they are the cornerstone games.

So I think they were probably comfortable with skipping over the Emerald features (especially when in functional terms, so many of them *did* have little left to justify their inclusion - compare to the post-game Johto starters from Emerald, who not only did still serve a purpose and were included in ORAS, but were even expanded to encompass the Sinnoh and Unova starters as well) in favor of "staying true" to RS. The absence of those smaller features may potentially be something of a jolt for people who *do* remember them well, but I think the majority of people probably only really remember two main things from Emerald - Rayquaza (check) and the Battle Frontier (wasn't going to happen).

It wasn't you who pointed the weather crisis migration/SZ expansion thing to me? I could have sworn it was. Well, anyway, yeah in hindsight it makes a lot of sense. The SZ expansion was in itself just a way to help make Pokémon from Gen II available to the GBA games. And the weather crisis migration does the same thing, but on a larger scale. I also like it because I think it's a fair compromise between what I wanted to happen (a completely restructured Pokémon distribution, except I wanted it from the start of the games), and what was actually going to happen due to the games being remakes (that is, keeping the same distribution from RS).

Oh, I forgot that the Altering Cave was never actually used. I thought they had at least done something with it in Japan, but upon checking, it seems not. Yeah, I guess it's pretty useless, then.

I think they could have made room for Juan somewhere. Even just as a cameo. He does get mentioned, at least, but I do feel kind of bad for him, being completely left out. I still think it would have been fine to have them be version-exclusive Gym Leaders.

On Trainer Hill, hmm... FRLG *did* come first so I guess technically, that would be more of a FRLG feature.

Regarding Unova remakes - perhaps they could do what I just suggested in the "Is this the end of third versions?" thread. That is, have the Unova region, and have Reshiram/Zekrom (and maybe Kyurem if they do want to introduce the Original Dragon) and some version of Team Plasma, but have a new player character, new rivals, new storyline progression, and perhaps a new Pokémon distribution as well (the whole "only Gen V Pokémon during the main game" thing was a novelty of its time that drew mixed reactions," so I can't see a lot of value in maintaining it, even if they do want to remain faithful to the originals). That way, you still get a story in Unova, but you don't have to worry about balancing BW with B2W2 so much.

Having whole towns and routes missing would be jarring, yes, but let's face it - Aspertia and Floccesy don't have anything to offer functionally that isn't already covered by Nuvema through Striaton. Lentimas is similarly useless if you don't have Reversal Mountain and the Strange House. You could redesign them, but the amount of redesigning you would end up doing to eliminate the redundancies would basically result in a new town altogether.

The thought of how they would handle these has me intrigued and terrified at the same time!

I understand why you are surprised xD But yeah, Emerald is the reason I started liking Hoenn. I played it A LOT. xD

Well, this is the key, really. It's not so much me wanting the Emerald exclusive features in ORAS, it's more wanting to get a reasonable justification for their exclusion. Saying "but ORAS is a RS remake, not Emerald!" is a terrible excuse imo, since some Emerald content *was* included in ORAS. And especially since HGSS included most of Crystal's exclusive features. Not only Eusine and Suicune, but also the extended Ruins of Alph, iirc, etc...

So that excuse doesn't satisfy me at all. However, the reason you gave, does satisfy me a lot more: that the Emerald exclusive elements were left out not because "this is a RS remake ", but because said Emerald additions weren't *that fitting". Like, as you said, DU being pointless, Trainer Hill maybe counting as a Kanto feature in their eyes, not Hoenn, Terra and Marine Cave being unfitting in a paired version, maybe to give an incentive to trade, the Safari Zone expansion being expanded to all the region instead of limiting it to the SZ, etc.

The only Emerald feature that should've been added imo, are Gym Leader rematches, Juan, and BF. We know the Battle Frontier wasn't going to be added anyway. It could maybe even be argued that "create your own pseudo gym!" acts as the substitute of traditional gym leader rematches from Emerald. Don't you think?

So that just leaves Juan, who is not too major of a character and he was kinda filler even in Emerald.

And then we have the Emerald features that they did include like:

- other region starter Pokemon
- Move Tutors
- Pike Queen Lucy
- The Rayquaza centric Episode

- The theme that sounds when Rayquaza descends from the sky to stop the Battle between Groudon and Kyogre
- the Frontier Brains theme from Emerald

- The other thing that is rarely mentioned, is the attitude of the Villain Team you do not face in your version. In RS, they are friendly, and act as your partners in battling your version Team. In ORAS, just like in Emerald, they *both* are your rivals in each version. They even menace you in Meteor Falls, when you first meet them.

So yes, in general, you are correct that they probably took the things tgey thought ORAS would benefit from.

As for BW remakes, I think they better include at least every town at least.

I do think a revisit is likely, cause it would save them a lot of balancing between originals and sequels.

Gym Leaders rematches are such a strange entity. Realistically, I see no reason why they couldn't include them in every game. I am no expert, but it can't be that difficult to program, can it? So, you can ask why they chose to exclude them from ORAS (especially when they *did* bother to give most/all? of the Leaders special post-Hall of Fame dialogue congratulating you on your victory), but I think the bigger question behind that is why they aren't just in *every* game outright. Yes, I know we don't really "need" them, but... why *not* put them in?

Equating the "Make your own Gym!" aspect of Secret Bases to Gym Leader rematches is an angle I hadn't considered. It's interesting, and I can sort of see the relation. Perhaps they could be compared. However, didn't you used to be able, in the old Secret Bases, to battle the person whose Base it was? At the same time, it could just be them fleshing that aspect out while also canonizing the longtime fan-dream of being able to run your own Gym.

For what it's worth, though, they did give us some solid Elite Four rematches, and they also let the Leaders and Elites walk around outside of their posts a bit, which is nice. I think that's something that nearly everybody praised about Gen V, was that they let the Gym Leaders walk around and be actual characters (although, I will be fair here and say that Gen IV kind of did that first, just not as directly). What ORAS does isn't quite on that level, but it's still a decent little treat and is better than having them stand around uselessly for the rest of eternity.

There is still a slight difference in the portrayal of the villain teams between Emerald and ORAS, however. As you say, in Meteor Falls, the "opposite" Leader makes it clear that he won't let you get in his way, so they're not your buddies like they were in RS - but at the same time, they also make it clear in the post-game that they didn't attempt to awaken one of the super-ancient Pokémon like the "main" team did. It's kind of a blend of their RS and their Emerald roles.


A thought occurred to me last night about something they could do for BW remakes, that I think would be really great. If they did include and revamp PokéStar Studios, I think it would be a no-brainer to do with it what they did with Trainer PR videos, and make it so that you can exchange films over the PSS and watch other peoples' PokéStar films. Imagine being able to see all of the unique, creative films that other players came up with, as opposed to the brief commercials that are PR videos.

Exactly, Leader rematches should absolutely be in all Pokemon games, but we all know the reason they aren't. They love rotating things they know we like. It's pretty annoying.

So, is the feature missing from ORAS? I see 2 possibilities:

1. Gym Leader Rematches aren't in ORAS, to save them for the Anniversary. Therefore ORAS has one feature less than the game should have.

2. Gym Leader Rematches are actually in ORAS, just in a different way. Instead of battling the in- game GL, we battle real life ones, who arrive in ORAS via PSS.

But as you said, this feature was already in RSE. The counterargument here is that ORAS doubled the maximum number of inhabited secret bases per game. It was 15 in RSE as far as I know, and 30 now I think. So that doubles the potential "secret base gym leaders" in ORAS. Also, it gives every one of them a group of up to five grunts, adding even more rematches (the normal in game gym grunts aren't rematchable in any game).

Alternatively, the Battle Resort type specialists could also serve as the substitute of gym leader rematches. They have a poll of seven Pokemon, and use four at a time, meaning you can fight different teams every day.

So I think it should be argued that one of these 2 features is the GLR of the game.

Yeah, about the other rematches in ORAS, the Pokemon League rematches are stellar. Also Wally is the most competitive in game trainer in the franchise.

And about out of gym appearances, I agree. We have quite a few appearing in ORAS. Three out of four E4 members and all the gym leader appear outside of their rooms. Wallace is actually even rematchable via Contests, which is sweet. So basically everybody except Glacia appears outside of their place. I think this makes ORAS one of the best in the series, only behind the Unova games, and around HGSS. So that also nice, as you reminded me.

I didn't think that line at the Battle Resort meant they weren't going after the opposite game mascot. I thought it was because they couldn't wake him up in time. As in, the other team was faster.

And about your idea of movies going online, it is a great and very suitable idea. I even wonder if they could've done it back then...

Firstly, I am sorry for my late response here. I haven't had as much time to post lately, so my activity has come in little bursts.

I think the Battle Resort masters are probably closer to the money as far as an equivalent for GLRs go. The official guidebook even blurbs about how now, with the Resort masters, you can battle a specialist for every type (although, I would argue that the extent to which Steven can be considered a Steel type specialist is debatable - seriously, why did they just give him even more Rock types for his rematch team instead of decking him out with a Bronzong in place of Claydol, Durant or Escavalier in place of Armaldo, and Ferrothorn in place of Cradily? Or anything, really - not Carbink and Aero-freaking-dactyl!)

I agree that Wally is the most competitive player in the series, and I think N probably comes in second with his seasonal teams - weather teams were more the rage back in that era. Wally's a Kalos League-er.

I do wonder why Glacia was omitted, though. An NPC at the Mauville Food Court mentions that she likes to eat there, so I wonder why they didn't squeeze in a cameo. Have her invite you to come rebattle the League or something.

At the Battle Resort, Archie says, "It's not a stretch to think that we might have tried reviving Kyogre to try to use its power for ourselves," and Maxie says, "Perhaps we would have been the ones trying to revive Groudon and obtain its terrible power for ourselves." So I don't think it's that, in the Mega Universe, they wanted to revive their mascot and simply failed to do so. They're not saying that they *did* try, and in another reality, may have succeeded - they're saying that in another reality, *they* may have been the ones who tried to revive a mascot, instead of the villain team for that version.

Regarding the PokéStar Studios films, I think to a degree it's something they could have considered. One of the things that I find interesting about Gen V and VI is how ill-suited some features were for the Wi-Fi capabilities of Gen V, and how much better they operated under the refined processes of Gen VI. Pass Powers becoming O-Powers, for instance. Arguably, Black City/White Forest (moreso the White Forest) becoming the Friend Safari. Join Avenue being folded into the Super-Secret Bases, to a degree. When you think about it, PR Videos do resemble a repurposed and extremely minimized PokéStar.

No problem! Excuse me for the late reply as well.

Yes, I think we should probably count the Resort Masters as the gym leader rematches equivalent of OR AS. And Secret Base pseudo gyms should be considered something like a game exclusive features.

Well, Steven is a Steel type trainer AND a stone collector. So he has a mix I guess. I think Carbink makes sense for him tbh, but Claydol and Aerodactyl don't, I agree. I think they gave them to him to make him a more well rounded Champ, not somebody who can be taken down with a flamethrower spam xD

Yeah, Wally having huge power and Gale wings is very competitive. And yes, N as well. Weather teams were the thing back then.

I don't know why was Glacia ignored like that xD At least they mention her... I guess they didn't want to show her eating like a pig? XD

Well, I clearly misunderstood that line there. Yes, it seems it is more following RS there. I assumed both teams were chasing both mascots in both versions, but you are right. And again, that would be deviating from the originals, so I understand why...

Yep, those functions were used better with the 3DS. Except for one thing though. In Join Avenue, if you don't have Internet, you still get Join Avenue NPCs and the Avenue doesn't stay unusable, while in ORAS, if you don't have the Internet on, your Secret Bases will stay empty, and no ingame NPCs would appear instead. My issue with this is that if somebody buys ORAS in five years, when the Internet support for the games is closed, people would be missing one of the best features if the game. That's the reason I don't like multiplayer exclusive features.

And regarding Pokestar and PR videos, remember that they were probably developed simultaneously, because BW2 and XY had been in development together.

Hey man, I just noticed something in the Delta Episode, so I decided to ask what´s your opinion...

During the Delta Episode, the player´s mom says that she remembers watching the Litleonids meteor shower 11 years ago, when it was last seen.

But after the Delta Episode, if you check the BuzzNav, the Hoenn News reporter informs the following:

" We’ve been hearing from many people, and not just astronomy buffs, that they were very happy to be able to experience the beauty of the Litleonid meteor shower lighting up the starry night sky. Surely there are many people who will keep a snapshot of that star show, which is said to come once every thousand years, in the photo album in their hearts."

So, is this just a silly oversight Game Freak made? It is a big contradiction, if it is an oversight.

Or could it be interpreted that the Littleonids last passed by 11 years ago and occur more regularly, but they are only *that* spectacular like this time once every 1000 years.

I noticed that as well. I think it's probably an oversight, but my rationalization for it is simply that the "thousand years" thing is just an old bit of local folklore. Even though they know scientifically that the meteors pass more frequently, the thousand years legend is a popular, quaint little story that the public embraces despite it being inaccurate. Kind of like Groundhog Day - we know that the seasons aren't actually dependent on a groundhog seeing its shadow, but people still acknowledge the event and the news still covers it.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Maybe it's just a legend, like you said. The news reporter does use "it is said..." as an expression, which makes it sound like a legend.

However, an other possibility could be that the Litleonid meteor shower happens relatively frequently (maybe once every 11 years as mentioned in the game), but the meteorites only offer such a spectacular light show, once every 1000 years, because only then a big, world-threatening meteorite approaches Pokeworld.

This could be linked to Zinnia's story that she tells at Sky Pillar, of a big meteor shower occuring once every 1000 years, according to the story. She explains that 3000 years ago, Rayquaza descended from the sky after a Meteor Shower drawed its attention. And that 1000 years later, an other Meteorite shower happened and the story repeated. And during the Delta Episode, it happens again, for a third time...

So, what I am speculating, is that maybe, although the Litleonids occur once every 11 years, they are a threat for the world only once every 1000 years, and that's when they are obviously more visible, making them more impressive than usual. (Also, only then does Rayquaza descend from the skies to save the day, illuminating the sky in emerald green light).

If that theory is correct, than maybe it is not an in-game inaccuracy at all, but is actually intentional.

It makes enough sense. As you say, it does seem to align with the big meteor events from the Rayquaza legend, while we know that the "11 years" thing is just a callback to Ruby and Sapphire. So I think clearly they were *independently* intentional, the question that remains is if they were aware of the overlap or not. Which I don't think we have any sure way of knowing. You can certainly read into it as you did, but some things also just slip through the cracks sometimes.

Actually, being the curious person I am, I couldn´t hold myself from investigating a bit futher. As the Litleonids are based on the real life Leonids (Litleo = Leo), I read a little more about that from Wikipedia (as I am no expert in the matter myself xD).

So, the Leonids are a meteor SHOWER. that occurs every year, and peaks at November (when RS and ORAS came out, by the way, which is probably why GF made the reference).

However, *once every 33 years*, the Leonids are more spectacular and visible, because a comet linked to them (called Temple- Tuttle) completes its orbit cycle. This is called a Meteor STORM.

So, the Leonid shower is a yearly event, but once every 33 years, the shower is more massive and is called a meteor *storm*.

So maybe, in the games, the Litleonids meteor SHOWER occurs once every 11 years, while the Litleonids meteor STORM occurs once every 1000 years, and is more dangerous then the common meteor showers.

I know I am looking into it a lot, but I find it interesting to know if they were aware of the overlapping, or not. But as you say, there is no sure way of knowing it.

I am just glad that both statements (11 vs 1000 years) don´t contradict each other, or at least can be compatible in- game.

Nice detective work. That actually makes a lot of sense; I wasn't aware of those distinctions. But it does seem to align with what we know - the meteors that Mr. and Mrs. Protagonist saw didn't sound like a destructive event. Just your regular meteor shower observation. But the events that Zinnia describes has meteors falling upon the planet in large number and causing damage. And given that they are obviously based on the Leonids, maybe you're onto something here.

Thanks

Exactly,that´s what I thought: everyone in the game seems to be preparing for a nice little meteor shower show, like the one 11 years ago, and nobody, except the Draco people, knew it was going to be more dangerous than usual.

It appears that this 1000 event thing, is a popular legend in Hoenn, and nobody knew it wasn´t just a legend, except the Draconids.