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Esserise
Esserise
Those dips and spikes are surprising to me. It would make sense if they were starting to hire more to start working on the next game. I mean, Stars has almost got to be finished up, right? So it should be about that time anyway.
Silktree
Silktree
Stars may not be quite done, but its engine is likely to be used for the next games, anyway. And the development of those games should have definitely started by now.
Silktree
Silktree
Geez. I even have to debate about the direction of Movie 20 these days, with very few people being open to refreshing ideas.

I'm sort of worried that you and I are running out of things to discuss, to be honest. So here's a question: What should Professor Silktree be up to in the sequels? Saving his daughter? Could he be responsible for her disease affecting Pokemon?
Esserise
Esserise
Yeah, I was wondering how that Trailer release went down. What you're saying... doesn't surprise me.

As far as us running out of things to talk about, I figured there'd be natural peaks and troughs to it. Even if we do fall in a temporary rut at some point, something will come along later on and reignite the discussion. After all, it's still going to be a while yet before we hear anything about the 2018 games.

But as to your question. I think it's a bit simpler, narratively speaking, if the disease comes from Lusamine without any involvement from Silktree. That way, the conflict is a natural consequence of Lillie coming to Kanto. Silktree could catch wind of the plague from wherever he's at and then come to Kanto to investigate and the check on Lusamine. Maybe he's encountered the plague before somehow? Or has some knowledge of it, from having studied (encountered/communicated with?) the Unown.
Esserise
Esserise
Then again, maybe that'd be redundant with what's going on with Fuji.
Silktree
Silktree
This year is going to be a long one. Hopefully Stars will have something of interest and the movie will be good. Also... Detective Pikachu would make me happy, especially given the Mewtwo cliffhanger at the end of the first episode, which is frustratingly still exclusive to Japan. Either way, I figure that things won't be as bad as in 2015, at the very least.

Silktree should be quite familiar with the plague assuming that I'm right that he funded Fuji's research, which was meant to find a cure to the (hypothetical) Guyana plague. I haven't given much thought to the origins of that plague, though. Was Nihilego involved yet again? Or was it a different kind of fusion?

As for Silktree's connection to the Unown... I am thinking that he may have crossed over to the HGSS universe due to their influence. Imagine if Silktree were to people as Neo Celebi is to Pokemon... The sole survivor from another timeline.

That wouldn't necessarily make Silktree lose sight of his original purpose, but it is an interesting question what such a man would want to do... I'm sure that he would hate Neo Celebi, at any rate.
Silktree
Silktree
By the way, I'm getting back to drawing these days after a 20-year drought. I want to work on emulating Sugimori's style, but it will take a while.

Characters that I want to draw:

Younger Fuji, Chieko (old and young), Silktree (old and younger), sick Lusamine, Champion Silver, reformed Giovanni and Prof. Daisy Oak.

Lesser priority: Gym leaders such as Brock, Misty, Bugsy, Jasmine, Reina and Soul (Silver's brother). I am not going to bother with characters who were already 20 or older in Generation II (but Game Freak should!).

As for new forms... They're too advanced for me right now.
Esserise
Esserise
> Either way, I figure that things won't be as bad as in 2015, at the very least.

Hopefully. At least the Stars rumor gives us some material idea of what to expect. 2015 was largely context clues.

> Was Nihilego involved yet again? Or was it a different kind of fusion?

Hmm. I hadn't actually thought about what would have caused the Guyana plague. I suppose it's easy enough to say it was a Nihilego; they're the Beasts that have appeared in the past. I can't decide whether I think that's too much of a coincidence or not (that is, her dad being involved with research about a similar plague to the one she would later end up unleashing).

If it wasn't to do with Nihilego, then it would certainly still have to do with the UBs, no? Unless we're going deep into red herring territory. I guess Necrozma is an easy alternative answer, but also a slightly boring one.

> As for Silktree's connection to the Unown... I am thinking that he may have crossed over to the HGSS universe due to their influence. Imagine if Silktree were to people as Neo Celebi is to Pokemon... The sole survivor from another timeline.

Before going further on this point, just to be 100% clear, you did mean to type TO the HGSS universe, correct? I'm just a tiny bit mixed up with the potential Faller stuff here. Presumably, there's a Silktree in each universe, so I'm wondering where each one stands in this.

> By the way, I'm getting back to drawing these days after a 20-year drought. I want to work on emulating Sugimori's style, but it will take a while.

I'd be interested in seeing how you visualize these characters, if you have any inclination to post your work. :)
Silktree
Silktree
I'll definitely share my art when it is done. I only have vague ideas right now.

I did mean "to". The way I imagine it, the HGSS Silktree died just like everyone else. The SM Silktree was able to see that postapocalyptic world, only to return to his own world.

I'll think about the Guyana plague some more.
Silktree
Silktree
> I suppose it's easy enough to say it was a Nihilego; they're the Beasts that have appeared in the past. I can't decide whether I think that's too much of a coincidence or not (that is, her dad being involved with research about a similar plague to the one she would later end up unleashing).

Not a coincidence... The plague would explain what made Mohn research Nihilego in the first place, which in turn led to Lusamine's obsession! Mohn's research was funded by Lusamine's father, Silktree, much like (hypothetically) Fuji's research and the Ruins of Alph archaelogy center. We could be dealing with an extremely wealthy man on a mission to save Pokemon... and people.

Stars could be useful, after all, if it actually explained Mohn and Lusamine's backstory.
Esserise
Esserise
> The way I imagine it, the HGSS Silktree died just like everyone else. The SM Silktree was able to see that postapocalyptic world, only to return to his own world.

Ah, okay, that''s what I was assuming, but I wanted to be sure.

Anyway, I like the idea. It ties everything together very neatly and interestingly, and gives Silktree a believable motivation with good pathos. It actually feels like it has weight, despite its scope. That's really what I'd like to see; it may be a large concept, with the multiple timeline stuff, but it's focused through a character lens that we can invest in. I actually feel sympathetic for this proposed version of Silktree and I totally get why he'd want to do everything he can to prevent it. And of course, absolutely you would have him be diametrically opposed to Celebi. In a plot that involves a world of only humans and a world of only Pokémon, putting one of each at the center of that conflict is perfect.

I also really like how it positions the Unown. I am extremely reluctant to give them any kind of universe-creating significance (although for the record, if any Pokémon even remotely deserves a lofty title like that, it's definitely them), but being something like... I'm not exactly sure what to call it, but here, they seem to be a bridge between timelines, which is more interesting than "creating the universe," and is fittingly abstract for them. Just think, those noises we hear on the Pokégear when we're at the Ruins of Alph *could* be vibrations from another universe being transmitted by the Unown...

What you say about there being another Nihilego plague makes sense. I actually quite like that, as the explanation for why Mohn started researching UBs. Honestly, the whole thing; this three-pronged attack of his, with the Ruins of Alph study, and the Aether Foundation/UB research, and the Cure Mewtwo project, it's all just so elegantly woven. If they don't go for something like this, well... whatever it is may still be good, but it would be a *huge* missed opportunity for something really original and compelling.

And yeah, I'd like to see more of Lusamine and Mohn's backstory. I don't really care about what happens to Mohn post-wormhole, but his past must have some useful gems hidden in it.
Silktree
Silktree
I'm going to summarize my ideas in a blog post.

Not sure if it's really worth it, though... But at the very least it will make it easier to read them even for us.
Silktree
Silktree
There is something that bothers me: According to Nintendo, the decision to release a Switch port of the Zelda game was only made last spring. In contrast, Eurogamer claims that Stars was put on hold about a year ago, meaning that it had been in development earlier...

Why would Game Freak have better foresight regarding the Switch than Nintendo...?
Silktree
Silktree
To be precise, the article referred to Stars as being "well into development" due to the "parallel development". It was only paused around September to give SM the final polish.

I mean, Game Freak would need more time to get used to the Switch than the Zelda studio did, but the fact that the latter decided to port their game so late implies that the Switch was originally supposed to be released later... And yet Game Freak started working in 2015? And they initially planned a summer 2017 release date, which would have been bad for SM's legs... Suspicious.

Nintendo recently doubled their Switch sales forecast for the upcoming fiscal year (till April 2018). It's hard to imagine what would give them that much confidence other than Game Freak's support. But then, why did they have so much lower expectations about a month ago? Could "Stars" actually be a recent decision? Is anything Eurogamer said even real?

Maybe the leak was just a ruse meant to gauge interest in a 2017 Switch Pokemon title. It's possible that Game Freak have been working on a 3DS project since 2015 or 2016, and they've only recently committed to a Switch port. In that case, they would probably need Nintendo's help to be ready in 8 months.
Silktree
Silktree
While it is just like Masuda to lie, it is also just like him to be apprehensive about the Switch exactly as he said... This may sound crazy, but I can actually picture Nintendo concocting a false report to prove to Masuda that his fears are unwarranted. And he would relish in misleading fans about a third version yet again...

When I took Eurogamer at face value, I was fine waiting until 2018 for Switch-exclusive titles. But between Go and the movie... You probably agree that the ideal time to return to Kanto and Johto is this year. And it also feels right to release both a 3DS version and a Switch one, mirroring Zelda (or more to the point Dragon Quest XI, which will be released for the 3DS and Switch). A lot of people may start with the 3DS version only to buy the definitive Switch version later.
Esserise
Esserise
Well, I certainly do like the idea (of having Kanto sequels this year) better than Stars. I did think it would have been fairly awkward to leave off on Lillie's cliffhanger twice in a row before paying it off. So *if* that's what we're looking at, I'll be much more excited than I am for Stars (and to be completely honest, I wouldn't mind having one more 3DS game, simply because I like the console and wouldn't mind having another thing to play on it). And it would alleviate peoples' complaints about console exclusivity/having to move up too early. It would be a smoother transition, overall.

But I don't know... maybe I've put too much faith in the Eurogamer leak and have built up a bias, but it's kind of weird to think that it's just a fabrication. While I don't think your suggestion of it being a trial balloon from Nintendo is too crazy, I can't quite get over the thought that the simpler answer would be for Stars be real. And even if your suggestion is true, can we really say that the response to a 2017 Pokémon Switch title has been particularly positive? I'm asking that seriously - I'm only really aware of the reaction it's gotten on here, which has been mixed and skeptical. Furthermore, how much would the response to a hypothetical Switch port of SM tell them? It's just a third version, so not exactly very titillating - why not brew up a test leak about something a bit more similar to Kanto sequels (like DP remakes, perhaps)?

The timing regarding BOTW is odd, I'll grant you that. But maybe that, as well as the boosted sales forecast, is simply based on data that only Nintendo is privy to? We could be missing some important information.

That being said, I agree that Masuda's apprehension is easily believed. And I could definitely see SM being the only Alola game, and never getting a Switch port to "match" the Kanto sequels.

Actually, speaking of another Alola game, I can't remember what your opinion was about the Bank game IDs that suggested there was one more "clover" game, and how that might relate to the possibility of the next Gen 7 game being exclusive to the Switch.
Silktree
Silktree
I feel as if I've dissented to the "other side" of Stars naysayers.

If Eurogamers had mentioned DP remakes, then some people would be disappointed to have that crushed. With a third version... there is only going up. SM sequels would have made more sense, but a lot of people don't see the difference (I barely do since I don't think Alola lends itself to good sequels).

BMGf is more negative than most communities. Also... the naysayers are just a vocal minority. I think that most people are at least curious about a Switch Pokemon game.

The Bank data technically implies two more games for this generation... So a dual release for this year or the next, and that's it.
Esserise
Esserise
> If Eurogamers had mentioned DP remakes, then some people would be disappointed to have that crushed. With a third version... there is only going up.

Ah, good point. Also, I agree that Alola sequels wouldn't work very well. But what about the empty construction lots? I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that they're meaningless (I was never *too* committed to that whole theory), but they are one of the better indicators of an Alola revisit of some sort.

> The Bank data technically implies two more games for this generation... So a dual release for this year or the next, and that's it.

So Stars wouldn't fit that at all, yeah? That at least makes me more suspicious of Stars's plausibility.
Silktree
Silktree
The construction lots just mean that Game Freak considered something at some point. Be it for SM or for a hypothetical follow-up.

No one in the game calls attention to them, do they? This seems like Z-level theorizing to me.
Silktree
Silktree
Getting back to the Kanto/Johto sequels, what do you expect might be done with Hau's father?

"Naw! No problem, auntie! Say. Is Kanto, like, really far way?"
"All right! Then it's decided! I'm gonna get stronger and stronger, and then I'm gonna travel the world with my Pokémon! I'm gonna go find Lillie! And my dad, too!"
"Oh, yeah, him. Heh... He's a strong Trainer—real strong, I think. But I guess he really hated being the son of a kahuna and everything, yeah? So he works far away from Alola these days."
"I think I'm gonna go train myself up at the Battle Tree, then beat you, <player>... and I'll be a Champion next time I see him! Seems like a nice little present, eh? Hehe!"

Hard to tell if the dad is supposed to be in Kanto, since Lillie is Hau's priority. Either way, I see Hau joining Red and Blue for the S.S. Anne return. Maybe even the SM protagonist will be there.
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