• Hey everyone! The Writer's Workshop is hosting an exciting event, Trainers of Fanfiction! It's a community event focused around your characters! Click here to check out the event and sign up!

Bulbagarden Forums

Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
That's great! Yeah the dungeon crawling for this game is repetitive for the design, though I kind of give it leeway for that since it didn't have too much to go on from the original. Maps are fine but I'm already used to OG Gaiden's maps so it didn't bother me, though I'm glad you still liked it in a way. Though I didn't know that rewinding time to save characters didn't show their endings, I can't remember if the original did that too if you choose to revive a fallen unit (though I do miss the ability to revive one army's unit into the other army, like if I lost Saber then I could revive him into Alm's army for example, that would've been a neat easter egg to the original). Glad you had fun with it, which lord and army was your favorite?
Trainer Gabriel
Trainer Gabriel
Sorry, I realized that I didn't word that correctly. What I meant to say was that I didn't revive the two units until after the final battle map at a revival shrine. But they were dead when Duma was defeated, so I didn't see their epilogues. If you're curious, the two characters who perished trying to defeat Duma were Palla and Boey. It was interesting that their deaths caused other respective characters' epilogues who were close to them to be altered (at least slightly, I guess) as a result. Mae entered a state of depression when she lost her "sparring partner" until the others cheered her up enough to continue on with her life. XD And, hey, that's an interesting way to recruit a character to a different army, and I sure didn't know that Gaiden originally had that. But, anyway, I enjoyed the dungeon-crawling in the game overall because it was something unique and fresh for the series, if for no other reason. I should also mention that I did unlock all party supports... even if I will still always prefer having characters chat to increase those when not engaged in battle.

Hmm... I suppose if I had to pick a favorite lord and army, it would be Alm and his team. I was equally interested to see how both parties' plots would progress, but I think I just liked Alm's journey better in the end. It probably helped that Tobin and Gray became two of my favorite characters, because I found them rather entertaining along the road. But Saber would also be a favorite of mine on Celica's side, being more of the roguish Han Solo character archetype. I guess I did also like Mae quite a bit, too, but probably at least partially because of her banter with Boey; that kind of character interaction is always a treat for me in these kinds of video games. Quite frankly, I felt that there was a lot more character-involvement in the plot here than in any other FE game I've played.
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
Ah I see, I understand now! Losing both those characters does bring about understandable changes for other characters endings (with Mae and Boey, having both alive instead will result in them getting married and having many children), I know if Gray dies Tobin goes into severe depression (same if it's reversed instead), and if Clair dies Gray also goes into depression (regardless if Tobin lives) but it implies he may have committed suicide; some characters endings changes majorly or just minor, so it's interesting to read regardless. Yeah it is though, it being OG Gaiden, nothing is ever brought up about it of course. Dungeon crawling should be brought back for other installments personally, though it sucks only three games even have it (with one being a crossover spin-off, so it's debatable within the fandom if TMS#FE is a true FE or not because of it's heavy Persona influences; even though it was supposed to be more SMT style but eh).

I liked Alm's army quite a bit too, especially for Python's and Forsyth's banter in contrast to Mae's and Boey's (their banter is fun too of course). And the fact that Alm's side deals more with the contrasts of commoners and nobles, and later on Alm's lineage. Though his and Celica's counterparts to each other is kinda watered down on Alm's end, but still satisfiable all the same (though Celica edges out a bit more because of that). Tobin and Gray do get a stand out performance, "Shut up Tobin." is still my favorite, simple line; and Saber is definitely the best myrmidon on Celica's side, Deen is just as great too (if you choose to not fight him). Echoes is certainly great out of the remakes we currently have (though New Mystery is still my top favorite remake, until whenever IS does 4&5), a huge upgrade to having actual character interaction compared to the original's recruitment dialogue. And Berkut is an actual, better antagonist for what it's worth. Also, which army did you recruit Kliff and Faye into?
Trainer Gabriel
Trainer Gabriel
Well, that's interesting to know. You know, having alternate character endings is just one thing about allowing fallen characters to stay dead in this installment. :LOL: So, besides Tokyo Mirage Sessions, what is the other FE game that has dungeon-crawling? That sounds interesting. And while we're at it, what's TMS like, exactly?

I have heard quite a bit about how Alm is portrayed as being "softer" in this remake (mainly from you), but I can't say I know any details about that myself. Do you have a favorite lord and path yourself, and is it different for you in SoV compared to Gaiden? I did get Deen in my playthrough, for reference, and he proved to be quite the handy fighter. I suppose I should recruit Sonya next time to see what she's like. I liked Berkut a lot as an antagonist, too, mainly for how his story ended. It's probably the closest thing I got to a redemption arc for a villain in FE. :) I simply recruited Kliff and Faye into Alm's army. I didn't know that it was possible to recruit characters to the other army by leaving them behind. (I now see why you hate Faye as much as you do.)
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
It is, especially since Echoes fleshes everyone out more and expands more on their connections with certain other characters, compared to the original which you have to read other official novels/manga/guides to even get some info on (with some being minor at best anyway, and Japan only so you have to go online for translations); so it's great to see these endings being put more in-depth here. Oh it's just Gaiden, Echoes, and TMS#FE that have the dungeon crawling, I guess I miss-worded it in my last post, my bad lol. TMS is literally set in a modern world and deals with idol type settings, the FE characters are essentially Persona's in this (though called Mirages instead); and the FE characters that appear are ones from FE1&13, Tiki (her FE1 appearance) is also a major character and is kinda idol-like in this one. Naturally this game has garnered controversy on if it's a true FE game or not, and for the SMT fandom while they're not as harsh on it some didn't like how it was more Persona than SMT proper, though a lot did agree that the heavy idol stuff were bizarre. (I don't care what Atlus and Nintendo say, it is more Persona than SMT) That being said it's a fun game imo, and I like the MegaTen series just as much, so the more Persona influence it had doesn't even bother me (though other FE characters except from 1&13 should've been in); if you've played a Persona game before, you should give it a shot, especially since it's being ported to the Switch next year.

I don't mind it too much, but in other official works he was more aggressive but still had a dorky side to him occasionally, so it kinda threw me off at first when playing the remake for the first time to see him acting similar to original Celica. I still like both lords though in both versions, but I'd say Gaiden Alm and Echoes Celica are my favorite from the original and remake respectively. For my favorite path, then Alm's for both versions due to the Rudolf situation, and Echoes makes me enjoy it more because of Berkut, though Celica's route in the remake is better than the original simply for Conrad, otherwise it's okay in both versions. Deen and Sonya are both great, but as I always say more myrmidons isn't a bad thing (especially for Gaiden and Echoes), as a heads up Sonya does have a support with Genny and she has some, well, I don't want to say major story relevance, but she does have connections to certain enemy characters (I don't want to spoil it for you on who though). Berkut is my second favorite antagonist in this series after Julius, Arvis is also up there in my favorite FE villains (Arvis is also arguably another FE villain that gets, kind of, a redemption though it's more too little too late). I did that first too recruiting both into Alm's army, then both into Celica's, and for my third playthrough I just left Faye behind for both routes, her trope wasn't needed imo and her ending is just terrible. (and I still think she might've been a base-line for an avatar unit, but scrapped it since it's a remake and just made her a new character at that point)
Trainer Gabriel
Trainer Gabriel
Yeah, it's good that Echoes gave many of the characters more pronounced characteristics compared to the original game. Well, I guess in your defense, Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia are considered two different games, at least judging by how they're numbered. I still don't really know if that's official or a fan numbering system. Well, that's the thing - I have never played neither a Persona nor SMT title before and have been rather skeptical about trying any of them. The primary reasons being that the High School/Dating Sim elements that these games feature (or is it just Persona?) don't appeal to me. And based on the new Switch trailer, and from your description, I don't think TMS is for me, either. I'll admit that I've also been a bit less hyped about Three Houses when I found out that the school features seem to be a big part of the game.

That's basically how I feel, too. You know, I had heard that Conrad was an additional character in Echoes, but, while his inclusion in Celica's route was good, I did guess who he was before it was revealed. Turned out to be a rather predictable plot twist in the end. By contrast, I didn't expect Rudolf to pull a 'Star Wars' plot twist on Alm. If Berkut is an additional antagonist in Echoes, then that just makes his inclusion for Alm’s route all the better. He is now probably my favorite antagonist in the FE series that I’ve seen so far, knocking Lyon down to second place. I did enjoy his story arc, as an underdog rival who wanted to prove himself to his Emperor and uncle by defeating Alm and always failing, who also turns out to be his cousin; then realizing he had been a fool after his final defeat and finding peace, and I also like to think redemption, in the afterlife with his lover. I'll admit, that scene managed to move me. I don't know anything about those other villain characters you mentioned, but what you said about Arvis sounds interesting. What game is he in? (And that’s certainly an interesting thought about Faye, even if I don’t know if I agree that that was the case.)
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
Yeah the numbering system for FE is in a weird position of being both kind of official and not lol, like the installment numbers are sometimes mentioned in official works but mostly fans are the ones that use it, well, the most compared to Nintendo/IS; sometimes I wondered if it'd be easier to just have a system similar to FF (then again, that can get iffy too depending on installments like Type-0 or sequels/prequels lol).

(I'll put this discussion of the MegaTen series in this paragraph to not make the last one too bloated)
Personally I'd say it's worth a shot to give any game in the MegaTen series a shot. All the stuff you hear about dating and high school sim are way overblown for Persona, in SMT itself it's non-existent; same goes for Digital Devil Story, Devil Summoner, Last Bible, and Majin Tensei. Devil Children is the only one in the series I don't have too much experience for but doesn't focus on it either, Devil Survivor 2 has social aspects similar to Persona though. The social link aspects of Persona didn't start until 3, and a lot of that is for developing bonds with your allies and help strengthen your Persona's and unlock new ones (in 5 it's called confidant instead though, but still similar), 4 is the only game where it's more focused on because it relates more to actual battles; and in 5 only four confidants are mandatory as they naturally progress with the story. You can date characters, but it's completely optional, a lot of the times when you hear about dating in Persona it's mainly cause it's a meme to spout out due to being able to date more than one character at the same time if you so choose, so people ran with it. If you want a Persona experience without all that though, then Revelations (the first game) and both P2 duology games are a good start, or you can start with any other MegaTen game instead (if you wanna start with SMT instead, then Strange Journey Redux and IV are a good start since both are on the 3DS). As for Three Houses, it's great and teaching the students can be auto-instructed instead of manually; and roaming the school can be skipped completely after the first starting chapters, you can either just do battle missions or rest if you want. There is a reason why the school has a focus in the game too, so it's not as bad. Though it's completely up to you of course, I can understand why games like that aren't appealing to some.

Yeah with Conrad it was easy cause of the color scheme of his armor and his hair color, when Celica mentions her brother I knew it was gonna be him. I like how Echoes went about Rudolf's reveal to Alm, and adding in Berkut to drive the point home for him being related to Alm and thus not the true heir to Rigel made the story of it that much better imo, the original can only do so much but Echoes was great with it's presentation. Rinea didn't deserve what happened to her, but Berkut's crazed actions delivered her death in a great and tragic way, also I had a feeling she'd die one way or another when I first saw her. Arvis (as well as Julius, his son) is in FE4, both are great villains but they are the way they are because of Manfroy (having Arvis marry and conceive with Deirdre, his own half sister after her memories were wiped; and Julius being possessed by Loptous).
Trainer Gabriel
Trainer Gabriel
Hrm. I kinda figured you'd try to persuade me to try these games, and if you really insist... maybe I will consider it, if only for you. Though, it looks like the first Persona title is too expensive on Amazon - and I can only find P2 on the PS3, which I don't own - so I would probably just look toward the latter entries, or at least 3/4 (since I do not own a PS4, either). Or I could just stick with Shin Megami Tensei for the reason you mentioned; it does look like I can get some of those for decent prices for the PS2 and 3DS systems. But I have to ask: What is the SMT series about, anyway? Sounds to me like the series involves... summoning demons? o_O And judging by those odd titles, the series really must be trippy games. Also, what else is Persona about, besides attending school and the like? I wouldn't have guessed that dating girls was completely optional itself...

Don't get me wrong about FE: Three Houses - I was still willing to give it a try, and what you described makes me feel more confident that I will still enjoy the game. Funny story: A few days before the game was released, when I went to a GameStop to buy Pillars of Eternity for XBO, I was asked if I wanted to pre-order any upcoming games displayed on the front counter. The games that interested me the most that caught my eye included Pokémon SwSh, Doom Eternal, Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, Bloodlines 2... and Fire Emblem: Three Houses. When running through what collectibles were included with the pre-orders, it turned out that GameStop had run out of the House pins that came with TH, so I decided not to go with that. I ended up just pre-purchasing the new Star Wars game, as you may have already noticed. I still don't have a Nintendo Switch yet anyway, but definitely plan to change that soon, given how many games there are for the system that interest me, and will get TH at some point when I do.

That is true. I'll bet everyone figured out who the "Masked Stranger" really was, lol. That is true, and terribly tragic, about what happened to Rinea, but given that she as well as Alm were able to forgive Berkut for his terrible atrocities, I don't think I would have done it any other way. Well, that's kind of too bad about those villains you mentioned being in games that were never released outside of Japan, but maybe they'll get remakes and then I could experience them myself. I should also mention that I did explore the post-game dungeon in SoV and, after several tries, did also manage to reach the end and defeat the final boss at the bottom, who turned out to be Grima. 0_0

On another slightly different note, I thought I'd let you know that I bought Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright at my local Retro Game Trader for about $35 (with some store credit for other things I turned in at the same time) two days past, since you did recommend it about a year ago. The reason I choose Fates is, for one, because from what I gather, it's better to play that before Conquest if I plan to play both eventually, and because... well, I'll admit that it's because I had heard about that version having optional grinding to make it easier, just like in Awakening. Go ahead and laugh all you want. I suppose this is also a good time to confess that I never beat FE7 because I struggled to get past a certain chapter that I found too difficult, with no way to grind my units to make it easier. Apparently, I'm still not as good at FE as many other players are. :( (And sorry that this message turned out be so long.)
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
Well you don't have to if you don't want, but if you do go for Persona then yeah 3 or 4 is a good start, as well as 5. Just to let you know though, if you do start with 3 there are different versions of it, there's regular P3, P3 FES (is an enhanced release, has additional hours of gameplay and has "The Answer" which is an epilogue), and P3P (portable version of P3, considered both an enhanced and inferior version, has a female protagonist choice with new social links and interactions, introduced a new character named Theodore for the Velvet Room whom you can choose over Elizabeth in the female route, but it removes anime cutscenes and doesn't have "The Answer" and lacks 3D environment and models outside of Tartarus). If you want to try P4, then there's regular P4 and P4 Golden, an enhanced version; it adds Marie, a new character, and has more Persona's and outfits plus anime cutscenes and new social links. SMT is still a great choice for a starting point, my personal favorite is SMT III: Nocturne, but Strange Journey Redux (an enhanced port of the original DS version) and IV are good starting points due to their availability. (actually SMT IV: Apocalypse is another good starting point, also on the 3DS and is an alternate version of IV, a lot of people bash on it but I enjoyed it so much personally)

As for what they're about: SMT games have post-apocalyptic settings where you do recruit and summons demons, or make new ones with ones you have by fusing them. SMT also focuses on alignments, pretty much you can choose/lean more towards Law, Neutral, Chaos (some installments will have variations though); other games in MegaTen that have it are Devil Survivor, Majin Tensei II, Devil Summoner 2, and Catherine (though this one is a tricky spot whether if it's part of MegaTen or not). (I'll post the Persona descriptions in a second post, it went over the character limit lol)

Ha I figured you would go for Star Wars. I did get the Three Houses pre-order that came with the pins and other stuff, but it sucks that the expansion pass came out a bit later so I had to buy that one separately.

I'm hoping for a FE4&5 remake soon tbh, though with Echoes' director saying he wanted to remake Binding Blade first kind of worries me, but still hoping they'll be made so more people will have a chance to try them out (they are amazing). Yeah the final dungeon is brutal, took me several tries too, I'm kind of mixed on Grima being the final boss of it though (and it further muddies the Archanea games lore).

Birthright is a fine starting point for Fates, especially if you prefer to grind before chapters. Conquest is great for maps though, and it's a bit closer to older FE games. And Revelation is just lol, all three Fates games are bad story wise though as a heads up. Speaking of, you gonna play Revelation after Birthright and Conquest? (it's fine you don't want to, I can always tell you what happens) I'm not gonna laugh at you for playing Birthright first though, I don't at laugh others for playing on the easier difficulties either (I mean they are an option for a reason), Sacred Stones is one of my favorite installments in the series and it's notoriously easy, so don't feel bad. If it makes you feel better, I still lose units from time to time in some installments, like 4, 5, and 10 are still the top entries I'll most likely lose characters in. (which in turn cause me to always restart)
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
(I tried to make this one for each game as short and understandable as possible, though you might want to watch a playthrough or read the full plots on the wiki if you're still confused)
Persona is set in modern (for the time of release at least) Japan, characters in these games have Perosna's that awaken for one reason or another, plot in Persona games heavily vary: Revelations has two story routes to play through, SEBEC route has an alternate version of the town the characters live in and must reverse this process, Snow Queen route is in the real town but it gets frozen due to a mysterious mask (whom anyone has previously worn died, except for one) that Saeko wears after she gets possessed by it, predictably you have to reverse this process too; both Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment directly relate to each other, it's kind of long winded so long story short, in IS Nyarlathotep controls a specific group of people and forms a cult, rumors and wishes come true and Sumaru City becomes part of Xibalba (came about from a certain character's father's writings), defeating Nyarlathotep causes Philemon to reverse the damages but the characters must give up their memories of each other, thus a new timeline is made which leads into EP. In EP (which is a doozy) "Joker" returns but it's a different person, the characters must figure out why "Joker" is attacking others and trying to force them to remember events from the previous game, he wants to bring back The Other Side (previous timeline), at this point new "Joker's" are being made. Tatsuya (protagonist of IS) is the only one to remember the previous timeline, causing a loophole due to him not keeping Philemon's promise (Tatsuya's sin). Essentially you defeat Nyarlathotep again, and Tatsuya finally fulfills his promise and says goodbye, and every one goes about their lives; P3 protagonist joins SEES, long story short humanity has a limited amount of time left and defeating Nyx/Ryoji will cause the characters memories to be wiped thus sparing them knowledge of their impending doom, or choosing to spare him will reverse this through, essentially, the power of friendship after defeating him (yes again lol); P4 is about murders happening around town, and the characters try and find out who is doing it, they go into a TV World (a world inside TV's) looking for clues, solving the case of the murders and who is doing it will make the fog (which would kill all of humanity) disappear; and P5 follows the Phantom Thieves in reforming peoples corrupt hearts, they accomplish this by going to the Metaverse, Mementos, and going into people's Palace's and stealing their treasure, of course the PT's are under suspicion of causing a "shut down" on people's minds, and later on they're framed for murder (there is a traitor among them), you also have to defeat Yaldabaoth to prevent him from controlling humanity (and for context the protagonist was arrested for an assault he didn't do, at the end of the game he gets arrested again but he is found innocent later on). Also, save for the P2 duology, Persona games have multiple possible endings.
Trainer Gabriel
Trainer Gabriel
Yeah, I was aware of the different versions of P3. The version I would get, if any, is FES because I don't have a PSP for the portable version; and FES is both cheaper on Amazon and has more content than the original version. Somehow, I feel like I'd rather try P3 over P4, but P4 is cheaper... and would also appear to currently be on sale, so I might go for that one. Still, I feel like I might want to try the SMT series first before Persona, since that seems to be a bit more to my liking. It actually looks like Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga are my cheapest options, so I'll probably just try one of those first.

I wasn't exactly asking for plot descriptions when I asked what the series is about, but... thanks, I guess. I'm not sure I even understood everything stated in that wall of text. Lol. But what you said about the alignment system has got me more interested than before. That sounds similar to the 3-dimensional alignment system from D&D. And you say I can choose how I align myself? How does that work? The Persona series having multiple endings also sounds interesting. Is that also true for SMT? And if so, do the endings differ depending on my alignment?

Well, that's interesting that Binding Blade may more likely get remade before FE 4&5; and I would guess Blazing Blade would follow shortly thereafter. I guess I'd rather that 4 & 5 got remade first - or just at all - if only because they might be harder to obtain for many... provided the difficulty is toned down. A fan-translation of FE6 on GBA can potentially be purchased on Amazon, which is a system I own, so that would be easier for me to obtain, anyway. If I get the chance, I may just go for it... if when I get good enough to beat FE7. :whistle: I don't know much about the lore of Archanea series FE - though I would be interested to learn more, since I consider myself a lore-junkie for basically anything I enjoy - but I was lead to believe that Grima's inclusion in Echoes actually attempted to rectify an established retcon for continuity. How does this make anything worse? I was amused that there was even a given origin story for Grima, which I enjoyed reading.

To be honest, if don't enjoy Birthright much, then I may not even bother with Conquest, either. From what you're suggesting, it sound like Revelations isn't even worth it, anyway, and only makes each of the base games worse. And if all parts of Fates have such bad stories as you say, then that just gives me even less confidence about how much I will enjoy the series. Also, how would I obtain Revelations, if I did decide to buy it?
Tactician Karina
Tactician Karina
If you do decide to buy one, then definitely go for P4 then since it's cheaper and on sale, also it's easier to not accidentally date a girl there too unlike in P3. And in P4 you can max a girls link and not worry about dating her, since there'll be an option depending on the girl, and some have to be persuaded anyway so it's easily avoidable. Either one is great for a starting point though, and Nocturne is definitely great (my fav), and if you do decide on Digital Devil Saga then that just gives you the added bonus of having my third favorite MegaTen protagonist, Serph, to play as. And it's my second favorite story in the series (after the Devil Summoner Raidou games).

Well I had to give more plot descriptions for Persona since removing all that it's very similar in settings for high school as it's backdrop, and even though I like Persona just as much, the rest of the MegaTen series has better gameplay imo (and story depending on which installment we're talking about). But yeah, it's best to either watch a playthrough, play them yourself, or read the wiki for it since it's all convoluted that making shorter descriptions of it is harder (don't want to add to much to spoil everything), but don't worry I felt the same way too years ago when I saw my brother play Eternal Punishment on PS1 around '00/'01 before I really got into the whole series itself and started playing them too. I thought you might be interested in the alignment system though, but yes depending on your alignment endings do change. How it works will vary on installments that have it, in some there'll be questions characters or demons will ask you with certain questions falling under the philosophical umbrella, summoning demons (as they'll also have alignments) can also slightly change your alignment to the demons own. Tasks given to you can change it as well (mostly by the law and chaos factions, doing both though will lean you more neutral). I like Devil Summoner 2's take on it as it's more subtle and it reflects Raidou's actions as a person than forcing ideals on humanity.

It makes me worried because, even though I do like Roy's game, I just want FE4&5 to be remade first because the story is just so good, and it definitely tackles more darker/uncomfortable themes. As for the difficulty they'd most likely add in a casual mode for newer players, as long as they don't add in a avatar and try not to butcher the love system in 4 I'll be good (oh and not omitting certain themes too, but that's a given). As for Grima, I'll just say this, he's literally a Medeus and Loptous clone and the fact that it's never out right mentioned if he's actually Medeus or not.

Birthright doesn't even mention a certain location like the other two so it makes Azura's secretive nature in-game odd and stupid, especially towards the end. Only play them for maps (Conquest), or grinding (Birthright & Revelation); if your masochistic then yeah sure play them for the lol story if your curious enough about it (cause you will not get the full story anyway from Conquest or Birthright alone). Some characters in Fates are alright though, supports are trash for the most part with a few being okay. To buy Revelation then you'll have to download it, I got the SE version where it automatically downloaded on launch, but otherwise you'll need to buy it separate at full price. Revelation will be downloaded on your copy of Birthright so you don't have to worry about that.
Top