3-d pokemon

[Sombra29]

I don't want the main Pokemon series to go 3D. Ever. For things like Pokemon Stadium and Snap (I haven't played a console Pokemon game since the N64), 3D is fine. But for the main series they should remain 2D, and remain handheld. Always. Pixels are pretty, and 2D fits the games so much better than 3D ever could. Maybe give the Pokemon full animations in battle and everything, rather than a few frames, but never 3D.

This.
Pokemon is a game about cartoon animals.Cartoons look much better in 2d,its more versatile.

 

[thedarkbunnylord]

I wouldn't like that at all. I prefer sharp, detailed and modern 2D graphics more than those crappy and weird-looking 3D D:. I wouldn't mind, if DS was a better console, which actually could serve sharper and detailed 3D graphics. I can already see nightmares about Pokémon in some AC: Wild World style . Horrible.

I haven't seen beautiful 3D graphics in DS, but I can say that HG/SS 2D-graphics are really beautiful.

 

[Ararararagi-san]

I don't want the main Pokemon series to go 3D. Ever. For things like Pokemon Stadium and Snap (I haven't played a console Pokemon game since the N64), 3D is fine. But for the main series they should remain 2D, and remain handheld. Always. Pixels are pretty, and 2D fits the games so much better than 3D ever could. Maybe give the Pokemon full animations in battle and everything, rather than a few frames, but never 3D.

I wouldn't like that at all. I prefer sharp, detailed and modern 2D graphics more than those crappy and weird-looking 3D D:. I wouldn't mind, if DS was a better console, which actually could serve sharper and detailed 3D graphics. I can already see nightmares about Pokémon in some AC: Wild World style . Horrible.

I haven't seen beautiful 3D graphics in DS, but I can say that HG/SS 2D-graphics are really beautiful.

exactly, leave the 3d for the consoles.

and hgss did do it perfectly

 

[Azumizai]

I personally like the blend of the 2D and 3D, the 3D is rendered in such a way that it melds well with the sprites and that it doesn't look disjointed. So I really don't have a problem with it, and I wouldn't mind if they continued to use it in that way.

Perhaps when the hand-held graphic's improve enough to render Pokemon well, with fluid animations, will I want to see that.

I can see it happening in the future, however, unless people will argue to much against a heavy change.

[Perhaps a spin off??]

 

[Lysandre]

i've played it and even those graphics weren't that good. better than the original, for sure, but still not that good.

Alright alright alright, hear me out here.

As we have just established, the DS IS capable of better graphics than the N64, as well as massively more cartridge size and processing power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDOXMY-FTUU

That was a Nintendo 64 game from almost ten years ago. If Nintendo put in the effort to improve it, it would be, in my opinion, marvelous. I honestly prefer those graphics over the current sprites, and that was almost a decade (as well as three gens, if you count the one we are discussing!) ago.

Some people will prefer sprites because they are either sprite artists, nostalgic, afraid of change or JUST HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES. THAT IS ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE AND A MATTER OF OPINION. Whichever opinion Game Freak happens to carry will decide whether not we have a dimension change. But don't say it shouldn't be 3D because "it would suck for 3D"- it's okay to think 3D is a bad option, but to say it is a bad option BECAUSE it would be bad for 3D isn't valid. Using these facts-

1. The DS is capable of slightly improved graphics over the N64.
2. Pokemon Stadium 2, the example given, is now ancient by programming standards
3. The DS has far more room on a single cartridge than the N64 did
4. If the environment remains 2.5D, even with a cel-shaded or what-have-you trainer for customization, there would be more than enough space for all 500 or whatever Pokemon models, since Pokemon Stadium 2 was far smaller in size and had many other 3D features.

...we have established that, were Game Freak to give it the EFFORT it would take, we could have 3D models on par with the video above. I personally think that's quite good 3D, And it would be technologically possible for it to be improved. Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNkagCxIyUM, starting at 1:07, through about 1:30. Now look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSjO2RYhEEg, also from 1:07 to 1:30. Those are from the openings of HG/SS, and the Ho-Oh/Lugia models are on par if not better than the Ho-Oh and Lugia models in my first video example. Is it 100% CONFIRMED that it would be of the same quality? No. But as Diddy Kong Racing, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario 64 DS and I'm sure others have shown, the DS is entirely CAPABLE of high-quality 3D graphics, and we're looking at examples from Gen II and IV here. Using a third party game that is trying to look like a sequel to a Playstation 2 game (the gen AFTER the Nintendo 64, mind you) is an example of 3D done wrong, but it does not prove in any way that 3D on the DS MUST BE HORRIBLE.

Example of 3D improving from N64 times, as apparently screenshots are Gospel in this thread-

I rest my case.

 

[KronosClownz]

Alright alright alright, hear me out here.

As we have just established, the DS IS capable of better graphics than the N64, as well as massively more cartridge size and processing power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDOXMY-FTUU

That was a Nintendo 64 game from almost ten years ago. If Nintendo put in the effort to improve it, it would be, in my opinion, marvelous. I honestly prefer those graphics over the current sprites, and that was almost a decade (as well as three gens, if you count the one we are discussing!) ago.

Some people will prefer sprites because they are either sprite artists, nostalgic, afraid of change or JUST HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES. THAT IS ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE AND A MATTER OF OPINION. Whichever opinion Game Freak happens to carry will decide whether not we have a dimension change. But don't say it shouldn't be 3D because "it would suck for 3D"- it's okay to think 3D is a bad option, but to say it is a bad option BECAUSE it would be bad for 3D isn't valid. Using these facts-

1. The DS is capable of slightly improved graphics over the N64.
2. Pokemon Stadium 2, the example given, is now ancient by programming standards
3. The DS has far more room on a single cartridge than the N64 did
4. If the environment remains 2.5D, even with a cel-shaded or what-have-you trainer for customization, there would be more than enough space for all 500 or whatever Pokemon models, since Pokemon Stadium 2 was far smaller in size and had many other 3D features.

...we have established that, were Game Freak to give it the EFFORT it would take, we could have 3D models on par with the video above. I personally think that's quite good 3D, And it would be technologically possible for it to be improved. Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNkagCxIyUM, starting at 1:07, through about 1:30. Now look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSjO2RYhEEg, also from 1:07 to 1:30. Those are from the openings of HG/SS, and the Ho-Oh/Lugia models are on par if not better than the Ho-Oh and Lugia models in my first video example. Is it 100% CONFIRMED that it would be of the same quality? No. But as Diddy Kong Racing, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario 64 DS and I'm sure others have shown, the DS is entirely CAPABLE of high-quality 3D graphics, and we're looking at examples from Gen II and IV here. Using a third party game that is trying to look like a sequel to a Playstation 2 game (the gen AFTER the Nintendo 64, mind you) is an example of 3D done wrong, but it does not prove in any way that 3D on the DS MUST BE HORRIBLE.

Example of 3D improving from N64 times, as apparently screenshots are Gospel in this thread-

I rest my case.

I have Diddy kong and I wouldn't dare say it has good graphics.

 

[Lysandre]

Alright, bad example. I don't have that game so I'm going based on what others say. I have enough screenshots and videos in there to prove my point anyway.

 

[Lysandre]

EDIT: Wrong thread, someone delete.

 

[Azumizai]

That is an interesting point, my question would be : How much space would it take on a tiny little DS cart for 500+ pokemon (assuming it'd be gen V or up), all the trainers, battle moves, buildings, held items, routes, maps, extras...

You'd have to store polygonal information, image mapping information, rendering capibilities, 3D behaviours, all the movements, compositing etc. etc. etc.

Could a DS cart REALLY handle ALL of that, and still do it at the quality that we'd want to see?

Maybe... maybe not. I don't know exactly what they'd have to do to achieve it well, or how much space that'd even take. But with what I've dabbled in the 3D world, is that while yes, they can make these things easy to acheive and in low bits of information, but I think the sheer mass that they'd ahve to fit in there is a large hindrance.

They want quality and quanity.

I dunno if that has any relevance. Yes, I do beleive the DS has the ability to give us the sheer quality we need, but for the sake of development and space constraints, what would we have to give up to get them in 3D?

My guess is a next gen console could be the key to getting a 3D pokemon game with little sacrifice.

 

[Lysandre]

Well, Pokemon Stadium 2 was a 512Mb cartridge for the N64, and it was able to manage 251 Pokemon models. Diamond and Pearl was also a 512Mb cartridge and used roughly half the space. The actual ROM (data) of Pokemon Stadium 2 was 46.77Mb, and Diamond and Pearl were 17.1 MB each. With save files and actual cart burned data Diamond and Pearl reached 256Mb, if I recall correctly, but also keep in mind that larger DS games are advertised as having 4GiG of memory. It takes 1024Mb to equal 1GiG, so assuming we had 753 Pokemon, or three times the Pokemon in Pokemon Stadium 2, and we were to highball that all the data of Pokemon Stadium 2 was 3D models and use FULL CART CAPACITY ALONE, you have 1536Mb taken up by exact-quality 3D models- slightly more than one fourth of the maximum cart size for the Nintendo DS. Considering Pokemon Stadium 2 didn't exactly PUSH the cartridge size of its tiny 512Mb self and Diamond and Pearl only took up roughly 1/2 of its cart, the same size, it looks completely feasible. Assuming we keep a similar 2.5D viewpoint with slightly better 3D and a 3D trainer, there would be space to spare.

EDIT: I was slightly off in my calculations. Although it does not make much difference, DPP uses MB, and Pokemon Stadium 2 uses MiB.

To convert from MiB to MB, multiply by 1.048576.
To convert from MB to MiB, divide by 1.048576.

So... in the end, N64 carts max out at 536.87 MB, and DPP use 512 MB. This means 3D models would take up slightly more space on a 4GiG cart, closer to 15/40. It's still plenty of space though. Assuming Game Freak already had the 251 N64 models from the Stadium 2 (despite being made by a different company) or all the Gen I-IV models from Colosseum (which would require some downsizing), it's not that hard to pull off. If not... well, it's still plausible, but it would have had to be in development for QUIIIITE a while.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

^ It could be something like this, with much better graphics

 

[Lysandre]

^That's exactly the kind of thing I had in mind. If we were to make the 2D more detailed and the trainer a cel-shaded sort of customizable 3D, we could keep the 2.5D feel of the environment, a must if we want the models to be as good as possible, and again... 3D customization is a LOT simpler than 2D since instead of different sprites it's all slight polygonal alterations and texturing. There were 3 or 4 different colorings for each Pokemon in Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2 not counting the normal shinies... those were based on name only. It would be pretty cool to see that come back in the wild, since it would be a rather simple Hex change in texturing of 3D models and it would bring a lot more variety. As it is there is a minuscule chance of running into a shiny, and although that would still be a good option, it would be pretty neat to have even more variety and many more, slightly common variations. You never see two tricolored dogs that are exactly the same, as an example, and a similar system was implemented in Nintendogs...

 

[Ararararagi-san]

^ It could be something like this, with much better graphics

eh, that camera angle is a bit too angled

 

[Lysandre]

He said SOMETHING like this. Customizable camera like Mario 64 would be preferable.

 

[Ararararagi-san]

He said SOMETHING like this. Customizable camera like Mario 64 would be preferable.

oh, lol didn't read the post *faceplam*

 

[BBHood]

^ It could be something like this, with much better graphics

That makes me think of Paper Mario, with 2D characters walking around on a paper like 3D world. I would like that, in a Paper Mario game for DS maybe. Not for Pokemon. I like the overhead, 2D, locked grid point of view that has been a staple of the main series so far. It fits the Pokemon style best.

Edit: I am positive that if they did a 3D Pokemon game for the DS, the Pokemon would look like they do in Pokemon Ranch. I don't want those things in my main series Pokemon game.

 

[Ararararagi-san]

That makes me think of Paper Mario, with 2D characters walking around on a paper like 3D world. I would like that, in a Paper Mario game for DS maybe. Not for Pokemon. I like the overhead, 2D, locked grid point of view that has been a staple of the main series so far. It fits the Pokemon style best.

me too. it should definitely stay the same.

 

[Lysandre]

Edit: I am positive that if they did a 3D Pokemon game for the DS, the Pokemon would look like they do in Pokemon Ranch. I don't want those things in my main series Pokemon game.

I'm sorry but... WHAT!?

Pokemon Ranch uses the toy-like models, and they're hideous. Game Freak has NEVER used those models in a game they are involved in and, unless they pick up the spin off series, never will. Ho-Oh and Lugia are in NORMAL 3D on HG/SS, how the hell are you POSITIVE they'll ruin it with these Picasso Pokeyman abominations?

 

[BBHood]

I'm sorry but... WHAT!?

Pokemon Ranch uses the toy-like models, and they're hideous. Game Freak has NEVER used those models in a game they are involved in and, unless they pick up the spin off series, never will. Ho-Oh and Lugia are in NORMAL 3D on HG/SS, how the hell are you POSITIVE they'll ruin it with these Picasso Pokeyman abominations?

They might not use those I guess. But I really can't see Nintendo putting anything other than those horrendous things, or something similar to them, or Animal Crossing like models. Which i would hate.

And even if they actually did Pokemon Stadium like models, I'd rather they don't. The 2D style still fits the Pokemon games better than those ever could, and I found the Pokemon Stadium battles and animations to be boring. I find the current 2D sprites more exciting. The only thing I ever played the Pokemon Stadium games for was the minigames, which were fun as hell.

 

[Lysandre]

Well, that's your opinion, so I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I and many others feel that Pokemon Stadium-esque animation was the best Pokemon has looked since, and it really just comes down to Game Freak's feeling on the matter. Also the Magikarp mini game is amazing.