• Bubapedia Error 503 Backend fetch failed

    Our technical staff are continuing to monitor the wiki to try and resolve these ongoing issues that are impacting page and image loading. We apologize for the inconvenience. We'll update as soon as we've got more information on this for you.

  • Check out our new Mysterious Garden forum style if you haven't already - we're sure you'll love it!
  • If you are finding yourself unable to log in, you should be able to fix the issue by following the following process.
    1. Close all browser tabs with any part of Bulbagarden open.
    2. Delete all Bulbagarden.net cookies (and if possible, any cached site data for Bulbagarden) from your browser.
    3. Close and reopen your browser, open a new tab, and log into the forums on the new tab.
    If you've followed this process and are still having issues, please contact us via the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the forum.

American Politics Thread

Dorothy

My love is stronger than my fear of death
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
21,924
Reaction score
2,360
Pronouns
she/her

The speed at which this symbolic, tootless action sailed through Congress while voting rights legislation has stalled... well it's very typically American.
 

Volphied

Shaking my head
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
942
Reaction score
623
The speed at which this symbolic, tootless action sailed through Congress while voting rights legislation has stalled... well it's very typically American.

...The speed?

The campaign to make Juneteenth has been going on for decades. It can only seem fast to those who didn't know about this, like Trump for example, who back in 2020 falsely and arrogantly claimed that he "made Juneteenth very famous" after his aides told him that he can't have a rally in Tulsa on this date. The reason it took decades to make this date a federal holiday was racist Republican opposition, which was broken only now. Even now, there are still many Republicans who refuse to celebrate this date.

Last year, the Wisconsin Republican blocked legislation to make Juneteenth a national holiday. On Tuesday, he relented, saying, "While it still seems strange that having taxpayers provide federal employees paid time off is now required to celebrate the end of slavery, it is clear that there is no appetite in Congress to further discuss the matter."

As you can see, there are still Republicans who wanted to continue to "discuss" the reasons why Juneteenth should not be celebrated. So no, I reject your unfair labeling of this as "symbolic and tootless".

There is a huge power in symbols. That's why white supremacists are so protective of Confederate statues. And regarding your comment about stalled voting rights legislation, I'll just say that this isn't an "this or that" situation. I did not expect this congress to easily pass everything in its first half year. So I'm still going to celebrate that the discourse about America's slavery past has shifted enough in the past decades that even most Republicans can no longer block the "symbolic" stuff like before. And this gives me more optimism for the eventual passing of voting rights legislation.

 
Last edited:

A Wild Luxray

Hear me roar!
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
7,907
Reaction score
11,022
It seems Manchin has finally come to an agreement on the For The People Act, which means all Democrats are on board, but of fucking course the Republican's are gonna probably get to block it yet again with the filibuster. I'm so fed up with this. It feels as if they were able to easily get stuff pushed through in their first 2 years of Trump's presidency, though its been impossible for Biden to get anything through the senate even with the Democrat majority.
 

swiftfox

Vulpix Velox
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
1,586
It seems Manchin has finally come to an agreement on the For The People Act, which means all Democrats are on board, but of fucking course the Republican's are gonna probably get to block it yet again with the filibuster. I'm so fed up with this. It feels as if they were able to easily get stuff pushed through in their first 2 years of Trump's presidency, though its been impossible for Biden to get anything through the senate even with the Democrat majority.
Actually, the only major legislation Republicans passed in Trump’s first 2 years was the tax reform bill, which took 11 months.
I know it’s frustrating, but blocking legislation has always been easier than passing it.
 

Dorothy

My love is stronger than my fear of death
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
21,924
Reaction score
2,360
Pronouns
she/her
...The speed?

The campaign to make Juneteenth has been going on for decades. It can only seem fast to those who didn't know about this, like Trump for example, who back in 2020 falsely and arrogantly claimed that he "made Juneteenth very famous" after his aides told him that he can't have a rally in Tulsa on this date. The reason it took decades to make this date a federal holiday was racist Republican opposition, which was broken only now. Even now, there are still many Republicans who refuse to celebrate this date.
The bill was introduced in February and signed into law in June. That's fast, regardless of Sheila Jackson Lee's prior efforts.
 

swiftfox

Vulpix Velox
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
1,586
Forgive the necro, but today’s news reminded me of this part of the thread.
Just hoping Cleveland doesn't make the same mistake Washington did by not picking an actual team name and going with something incredibly boring and generic. Their reasons for changing the name is valid, but please...PLEASE do not call yourself the Cleveland Baseball Team.
They went with…Guardians, a reference to the statues on Cleveland’s Hope Memorial Bridge. Personally, I think it sounds too much like a minor league name, but I get it.

Naturally, the former guy felt obligated to weigh in: ‘Such a disgrace’: Former President Trump reacts as Cleveland Indians announce Guardians as new name
Even if the old name didn’t have all the baggage attached, it’s not like the Indians have a long-running history of success; their last World Series title was in 1948.
 

CynthiaLover

Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
4,380
Reaction score
3,870
Pronouns
He/Him
Well, as I've said numerous times before, I tend to avoid talking about politics, but once again I'm here to mention yet another issue that I can't stay silent on.

As you know, the Delta variant of COVID-19 is on the rise and several states are becoming hotspots, such as Texas and Florida. Again. And the leaders of said states (among others) are more inclined to play the blame game instead of, you know, actually using something called intelligent thought to combat the virus (although I guess using intelligent thought does requires a brain, which they don't seem to have). However, I recently learned that a particular state has just sunk to a new low on the blame game. The lieutenant governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, is blaming the spread of the new variant on... wait for it... unvaccinated African Americans. Not because they are neglecting the necessary steps to stop the spread, but on unvaccinated African Americans. Can you believe him? I'm sorta surprised he's not tossing in Mexicans into that foul mixing pot called racism. And the cherry on top is to further blame the Democrats for, you know, actually trying to take precautions on stemming the spread. I'm just beyond flabbergasted at just how low these idiots will go to deflect blame off of themselves. It's like a game of limbo: How low can you go? Well, it appears the Republicans are willing to go to new lows that we haven't seen since maybe even the Civil War. Old Abe Lincoln must be turning in his grave to see just what the Republican party has become. We're dealing with one of the biggest pandemics in decades and these morons prefer to play the superior card and flaunt their "never my fault" attitude while people are SUFFERING and DYING because they're not taking the needed steps to stop the spread of COVID. I swear, there seems to be no hope for the Republican party at this rate. Hopefully the commonfolk will wake up and kick these guys out of power, as they're more inclined to let the country burn than actually help it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop right there, as I'm getting worked up again. And I really don't want to get worked up before I take my melatonin at bedtime, as it tends to prevent me from sleeping good. But I thought I should share the lasted bit of political stupidity that has cropped up.
 

swiftfox

Vulpix Velox
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
1,586
Five-alarm fire. Expect other red states to pass similar laws very soon.
 

Aulos

Sappho's Friend
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
2,313
Reaction score
2,454
Pronouns
She / Her
Oh hello. It's the long-term consequences of the 2016 election. As if we already don't have enough consequences of the same election with COVID being rampant and politicized, and the lack of taxation on the rich causing horrific economic inequality to contend with.

Listen up leftists. You can not let a Republican be president. Ever. Never again. Unless something goes awry with the parties like it did back in the 20th century (where the Republicans became conservative, and the Democrats became liberal). You must get out and vote, even if the Democrat candidate is bad. Because Republicans being in power always harms us immensely. Always. A Republican president is always going to be more harmful, the way things are right now.

I don't know how to fix the Democrat party. But letting Republicans win because the Democrat is not good enough is a horrible strategy and people have lost their rights and their lives and it's going to continue because the Supreme Court was stacked.
 

Dorothy

My love is stronger than my fear of death
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
21,924
Reaction score
2,360
Pronouns
she/her
Oh hello. It's the long-term consequences of the 2016 election. As if we already don't have enough consequences of the same election with COVID being rampant and politicized, and the lack of taxation on the rich causing horrific economic inequality to contend with.

Listen up leftists. You can not let a Republican be president. Ever. Never again. Unless something goes awry with the parties like it did back in the 20th century (where the Republicans became conservative, and the Democrats became liberal). You must get out and vote, even if the Democrat candidate is bad. Because Republicans being in power always harms us immensely. Always. A Republican president is always going to be more harmful, the way things are right now.

I don't know how to fix the Democrat party. But letting Republicans win because the Democrat is not good enough is a horrible strategy and people have lost their rights and their lives and it's going to continue because the Supreme Court was stacked.

These kinds of lectures don't really do much to solve the problems in the electoral system which cause Republicans to take power, though, do they? It's not "leftists" who don't want to vote for Democrats - and they shouldn't, because Democrats have no more interest in pursuing the political goals of the left than Republicans - it's voter suppression, it's gerrymandering, it's voter intimidation and disenfranchisement. If you want specifically to keep the Republicans out of power, then focusing on mitigating these issues is what you want to be doing, not wagging your finger at leftists, who have not made up a significant voting bloc in the United States since the early 20th Century.

Frankly, Ruth Bader Ginsburg bears at least as much blame for this as any leftist, for refusing to retire at an opportune time while the Democrats still controlled the Senate and the Presidency, based purely on her own ego.
 

swiftfox

Vulpix Velox
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
1,586
Oh hello. It's the long-term consequences of the 2016 election.
What infuriates me most is that all of this was obvious at the time, and so many people flat out refused to acknowledge it. I keep thinking of all the times I watched (mostly female) Clinton supporters screaming about the importance of the Supreme Court, only for supposed progressives to tell them they were being "dramatic" and "hysterical" or accuse them of "emotional blackmail", whatever the fuck that means.

As for who's to blame, that's easy: everyone who did not vote for Clinton, everyone who willingly chose not to do the only thing that would have prevented this disaster.
 

Aulos

Sappho's Friend
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
2,313
Reaction score
2,454
Pronouns
She / Her
These kinds of lectures don't really do much to solve the problems in the electoral system which cause Republicans to take power, though, do they? It's not "leftists" who don't want to vote for Democrats - and they shouldn't, because Democrats have no more interest in pursuing the political goals of the left than Republicans - it's voter suppression, it's gerrymandering, it's voter intimidation and disenfranchisement. If you want specifically to keep the Republicans out of power, then focusing on mitigating these issues is what you want to be doing, not wagging your finger at leftists, who have not made up a significant voting bloc in the United States since the early 20th Century.

"Democrats have no more interest in pursuing the political goals of the left than Republicans".

This is a take I can not understand at all. I thought Leftists care about LGBT rights, women's rights, taxation on the rich. The Republicans, when in power, go on full-scale attack against all of these. Whereas, when Democrats are in power, they at best further these causes, at worst prevent them from getting worse. Thus, it very much should be in the interests of leftists to keep Democrats in power and keep Republicans out of power.

Not because Democrats are great. They aren't - they should be pushing hard for these causes. But over the top of that, the Republican party is a detriment to these causes. Like not just casually against them, but all-out against them. Proud of it. and attacking them every single chance they are given. With the full force of the Supreme Court they stacked because people couldn't get out and vote for Clinton in 2016. Letting the Republicans win just makes it more miserable for those of us who are effected by these things, and you have to understand it can make us a little bitter at the leftists who act like these differences between the Republicans and Democrats are so minor that they're all the same. My rights and the rights of others are not so minor.

As for your other point, yes, it is very true that voter suppression and the like is playing a role here. But even through all of that Biden won last year. I can't claim it to be as such on a large scale, but nearly every leftist I know who had been stubborn in the 2016 election got out and voted in the 2020 election. It's natural for me to draw a bit of a conclusion that they made a difference.

I get being frustrated with the inaction of the Democrats (as I often am), but I don't get saying that both parties are the same.

What infuriates me most is that all of this was obvious at the time, and so many people flat out refused to acknowledge it. I keep thinking of all the times I watched (mostly female) Clinton supporters screaming about the importance of the Supreme Court, only for supposed progressives to tell them they were being "dramatic" and "hysterical" or accuse them of "emotional blackmail", whatever the fuck that means.

As for who's to blame, that's easy: everyone who did not vote for Clinton, everyone who willingly chose not to do the only thing that would have prevented this disaster.

It is weird that the fate of the Supreme Court doesn't motivate the liberals and the left like it does the right. It is so darn bizarre.
 

Dorothy

My love is stronger than my fear of death
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
21,924
Reaction score
2,360
Pronouns
she/her
"Democrats have no more interest in pursuing the political goals of the left than Republicans".

This is a take I can not understand at all. I thought Leftists care about LGBT rights, women's rights, taxation on the rich. The Republicans, when in power, go on full-scale attack against all of these. Whereas, when Democrats are in power, they at best further these causes, at worst prevent them from getting worse. Thus, it very much should be in the interests of leftists to keep Democrats in power and keep Republicans out of power.
No, Democrats pursue symbolic victories and half-measures which are built on foundations of sand. Democratic reforms target the superstructure, whereas leftist reforms target the base.

(In addition leftists do not, as a general matter, care about mere taxation on the rich; they care about wresting all political and economic power away from the capitalist class. Taxation is one route to achieving this - but Democrats don't really raise taxes on the rich anyway)
 

Shiny Celebi

Phantom Thief
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
29,767
Reaction score
2,697
Pronouns
Any. Not picky
Oh hello. It's the long-term consequences of the 2016 election. As if we already don't have enough consequences of the same election with COVID being rampant and politicized, and the lack of taxation on the rich causing horrific economic inequality to contend with.

Listen up leftists. You can not let a Republican be president. Ever. Never again. Unless something goes awry with the parties like it did back in the 20th century (where the Republicans became conservative, and the Democrats became liberal). You must get out and vote, even if the Democrat candidate is bad. Because Republicans being in power always harms us immensely. Always. A Republican president is always going to be more harmful, the way things are right now.

I don't know how to fix the Democrat party. But letting Republicans win because the Democrat is not good enough is a horrible strategy and people have lost their rights and their lives and it's going to continue because the Supreme Court was stacked.
Thats a lot easier said than done with Republicans pushing all those voter suppression laws and gerrymandering and such. They do everything they can to keep people from voting against them. I do find it likely we will have a Republican president again and Republicans will take back the majority in Congress,Dems barely have a majority as it is. They need to be very careful.
 

Volphied

Shaking my head
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
942
Reaction score
623
Thats a lot easier said than done with Republicans pushing all those voter suppression laws and gerrymandering and such. They do everything they can to keep people from voting against them.
Stacey Abrams proved that Democrats can win even in the Deep South. Voter suppression and gerrymandering backfired in Georgia, where it only motivated the democratic base.

She showed the way how to break through the GOP's dirty tricks. And I personally believe that the extreme laws Texas republicans are right now pushing will have a similar effect there too.
 

Aulos

Sappho's Friend
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
2,313
Reaction score
2,454
Pronouns
She / Her
No, Democrats pursue symbolic victories and half-measures which are built on foundations of sand. Democratic reforms target the superstructure, whereas leftist reforms target the base.

My point is that half-measures are the much better alternative to the party that is outright taking away rights when they're in power. The right is so extremist right now. The Democrats not doing enough is not a good argument to not vote to keep them in power when the only alternative is a party that does nothing but harm.

Politics in USA are in a very sorry state right now. We should have a true left party (in my eyes, the moderate Democrats right now are the ones that should be considered the right), but the solution is absolutely can't be letting the far right extremist party take power.
 

swiftfox

Vulpix Velox
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
1,586

Juliko

The #1 Deerling Fan!
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
3,472
Reaction score
2,343
Welp, I'm not even surprised that certain people are booing Biden's most recent announcement on TV earlier. Why are people even making mask/vaccine mandates into an issue? They need to stop acting like receiving protection from the literal plague is some kind of attack on their integrity.
 
Top