American Politics Thread

[Volphied]

View: https://twitter.com/ambiej/status/1324493547966521346

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

In some ways, we could have done so much better. I am disappointed we aren't gonna retake the senate. I'm disgusted we got QAnon supporters elected and Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell were reelecred. I'm even disgusted it seems John Katko is going back and that bitch Claudia Tenney seems to have beaten Anthony Brindisi.

But we do have something big to celebrate still! We are about to defeat the most vile and corrupt president the US has ever had! Sure not everything went how we hoped, but defeating Donald Trump is a huge prize and a huge reason to celebrate still.

 

[CynthiaLover]

In some ways, we could have done so much better. I am disappointed we aren't gonna retake the senate. I'm disgusted we got QAnon supporters elected and Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell were reelecred. I'm even disgusted it seems John Katko is going back and that bitch Claudia Tenney seems to have beaten Anthony Brindisi.

But we do have something big to celebrate still! We are about to defeat the most vile and corrupt president the US has ever had! Sure not everything went how we hoped, but defeating Donald Trump is a huge prize and a huge reason to celebrate still.

Agreed. A victory over Trump is a victory for the good of the world. While retaking the Senate on top of Biden's win would've been golden, we still managed to usurp one of the most dangerous, deranged, corrupt, and racist president in history. And at least we still have the midterm elections for another shot at the Senate later on, so it's not a total defeat in that regard. Really, just being victorious over Trump is worthy of celebration on its own. Now we can finally rebuild our country to its true glory and axe that psychopathic manchild from power once and for all (unless, of course, he tries again 4 years later, but hopefully he'll be locked away for his various crimes by then). Even if the Senate will have to wait until midterm elections, just giving Trump the boot is enough of a reason for me to celebrate.

 

[Volphied]

In some ways, we could have done so much better. I am disappointed we aren't gonna retake the senate.

And at least we still have the midterm elections for another shot at the Senate later on,

The Senate can still be taken if Dems win the two runoff election in Georgia.

 

[CynthiaLover]

The Senate can still be taken if Dems win the two runoff election in Georgia.

True, I nearly forgot that the two runoff elections in Georgia can change things. But even if it doesn't happen, we still have midterm elections later down the road for one last shot. If Georgia gives the Dems the victory they so need then that'll make this victory even sweeter. So, here's hoping Georgia pulls through.

 

[Esserise]

Honestly, for Biden to just barely eke it out like this is kinda embarrassing. It just goes to show that yes he won, but another Democratic candidate who actually campaigned on more than just "not being Donald Trump" would have done WAY better.

I (broadly) agree with you here, but I think the electoral college is once again an important factor to note. Where I live, in a red state that enthusiastically went for Trump, my vote for Biden essentially did not matter one bit, except that it added another notch to his popular vote total, where Biden is and has been firmly ahead. But the popular vote is basically meaningless, because what really wins the election is cinching the votes in a handful of crucial geographical locations that translate to a significant amount of electoral votes. "Not being Donald Trump" clearly is popular enough with the people to outperform Trump by a significant margin, but that overwhelmingly obvious sentiment is throttled by the electoral college system, which requires that "Not being Donald Trump" must be popular with people... in some very specific locations.

 

[Aulos]

Some more slightly good news: The new batch of votes that came into the important county in Arizona showed Trump's lead in these votes dropping below where he needs to be able to ultimately overtake Biden.

Lets hope it stays that way! Keep GA, PA, AZ, and NV blue!

 

[zoroarctic]

Everyone OK?


View: https://twitter.com/Garrett_Archer/status/1324748146258313216?s=20


If you want to keep tabs on what's happening in Arizona, follow this guy.

 

[Gengarzilla]

I (broadly) agree with you here, but I think the electoral college is once again an important factor to note. Where I live, in a red state that enthusiastically went for Trump, my vote for Biden essentially did not matter one bit, except that it added another notch to his popular vote total, where Biden is and has been firmly ahead. But the popular vote is basically meaningless, because what really wins the election is cinching the votes in a handful of crucial geographical locations that translate to a significant amount of electoral votes. "Not being Donald Trump" clearly is popular enough with the people to outperform Trump by a significant margin, but that overwhelmingly obvious sentiment is throttled by the electoral college system, which requires that "Not being Donald Trump" must be popular with people... in some very specific locations.

From what I managed to learn about US politics in this election, the electoral college really is a flawed system like that. Why should certain states be allocated more electoral votes just because they have greater populations? The way Britain does general elections, with every constituency only giving a single MP towards having a majority in Parliament which gives their party the capacity to form a solo government, feels more fair by comparison since it makes all these locations equally important to win for any party. Admittedly we do still have situations where a party's overall popular vote doesn't always mean you get a lot of MPs, but I've never heard of someone outright becoming PM without their party having the popular vote.

Contrast to the US, where the value of states like California, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Florida are way higher than a place like Alaska... ok? Why can't every eligible American voter, regardless of where they happen to live in the states, just enjoy an equal say in who leads them for the next four years?

 

[Volphied]

From what I managed to learn about US politics in this election, the electoral college really is a flawed system like that. Why should certain states be allocated more electoral votes just because they have greater populations?

Why? Because slavery, that's the unfortunate truth.

The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists

The Founding Fathers had something particular in mind when they set up the U.S. presidential election system: slavery

time.com

As Americans await the quadrennial running of the presidential obstacle course now known as the Electoral College, it’s worth remembering why we have this odd political contraption in the first place. After all, state governors in all 50 states are elected by popular vote; why not do the same for the governor of all states, a.k.a. the president?

At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.

If the system’s pro-slavery tilt was not overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.

Southerner Thomas Jefferson, for example, won the election of 1800-01 against Northerner John Adams in a race where the slavery-skew of the electoral college was the decisive margin of victory: without the extra electoral college votes generated by slavery, the mostly southern states that supported Jefferson would not have sufficed to give him a majority. As pointed observers remarked at the time, Thomas Jefferson metaphorically rode into the executive mansion on the backs of slaves.

 

[Esserise]

From what I managed to learn about US politics in this election, the electoral college really is a flawed system like that. Why should certain states be allocated more electoral votes just because they have greater populations?

In addition to what Volphied posted, I know there are some modern arguments for retaining it, usually from what I've seen being along the lines that a popular vote-based system might result in populated, urban areas drowning out the concerns of rural areas with fewer people. Similarly, there is a belief that it compels candidates to campaign in places that they might otherwise ignore in favor of populated strongholds. I don't think I'm versed enough on the issue to speak to the validity of those concerns, but obviously I do think there are signs of a problem within the fact that the last two times there has been a popular/electoral disparity, it has awarded the seat to a considerably less-popular Republican administration who would go on to become absolutely destructive.

"In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote."

Hmm, maybe there's something fundamentally problematic about this whole "enslaving people" thing.

 

[Volphied]

In addition to what Volphied posted, I know there are some modern arguments for retaining it, usually from what I've seen being along the lines that a popular vote-based system might result in populated, urban areas drowning out the concerns of rural areas with fewer people.

Instead, it now results in those rural, less populated areas drowning out places where most people live. Plus those who defend the electoral college seems to not be so concerned about state gubernatorial elections. Why they are fine with states not having their own electoral college for every county is mysterious.

Similarly, there is a belief that it compels candidates to campaign in places that they might otherwise ignore in favor of populated strongholds.

Instead, it now results in politicians campaigning in "swing states" while completely ignoring safe blue and safe red states. Only swing states get deluded by campaign ads.

Those two popular arguments you mentioned were not used when the electoral college was first conceived. From the start it was all about how to count black people without actually giving them a voting right. The Electoral college served its original purpose during slavery and during Jim Crow, and it continues to serve its original purpose even today every time the GOP suppresses minority voters in swing states.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Anyways, which state can we expect to finish counting every vote first? Whoever announces next could wrap this thing up beyond any logical doubt.

 

[Esserise]

The Electoral college served its original purpose during slavery and during Jim Crow, and it continues to serve its original purpose even today every time the GOP suppresses minority voters in swing states.

Quite true. Just to be clear, I'm not saying I agree with those arguments myself - they're just the ones I usually see, and I want to be cautious in speaking about something I'm not particularly knowledgeable about. That said, I definitely think that at least the last two cases of disparity haven't really proven the EC to be a safeguard for "rural concerns" so much as "nationally unpopular policies that are unpopular for a damn good reason, because they're often violent, bigoted, and anti-democratic."

 

[CynthiaLover]

Anyways, which state can we expect to finish counting every vote first? Whoever announces next could wrap this thing up beyond any logical doubt.

If we're talking about Biden it'll probably be Georgia. While both Georgia and Pennsylvania are like 99% counted, mom told me that she heard on the morning news that Pennsylvania might do a recount due to how insanely close the results are is. That'll mean Pennsylvania might take even longer to get everything said and done. And since Nevada is only, like, 88% or so done, it'll be probably another day before we hear from Nevada. So, Georgia might be the first one to finish counting.

If it's Trump then North Carolina will probably get announced first, as Alaska, the last "Trump" state is only like 75% or so done (even though it's a pretty clear-cut win for Trump, as it's like roughly a 66%/33% Trump/Biden difference).

In the end, it may be either Georgia or North Carolina that'll get their vote count completed next, as both are like 98-99% done.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

So much has happened just last night and this morning that it's hard to keep up with everything, but I am relieved and ecstatic that Biden is in the lead and that there is a chance for the Senate too (the NY Times map still says it's tied). I do hope the final declaration is held today though.

 

[zoroarctic]

View: https://twitter.com/nilesgapol/status/1324709841705881602?s=21

 

[Gengarzilla]

I've just heard something interesting. The Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro, also known as the "Tropical Trump", appears to be jumping ship! That's quite a heavy blow to Donald Trump's support base!

That's not all from the Latin American countries though. Commentators from Brazil, Columbia, Mexico, Uruguay, and Venezuela are beginning to lob back the US-born slur of "banana republic" in response to the electoral turmoil. It's like watching a band of peasants (no offence to any Latin Americans here, I'm just making an innocent comparison) throw tomatoes at a hated noble.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Am I imagining this or did Biden's electorates just went down to 253 from 264? I'm not panicking but I'm watching closely.

 

[omahanime]

Am I imagining this or did Biden's electorates just went down to 253 from 264? I'm not panicking but I'm watching closely.

Depends on your news source.