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American Politics Thread

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Blockhead Pippi said:
This is my exact concern. I don't know just how widespread it is exactly, but I see this everywhere on social media. I really hope they realize that the decision not to vote won't make Biden or Trump go away or won't elect Bernie in.
Click to expand...
A lot claimed to be crazy about Bernie but refused to show up to actually vote for him, so I dont have very much faith despite them claiming enthusiasm and their hatred of Trump.
 
Advice: try to ignore the online left. To steal a quote from Eisenhower, “their numbers are negligible, and they are stupid.”
 
I watch a lot of statistics lately but no one says some things...

Trump got Corona Virus , Syria and many new Hurricanse.

Bush had 9/11,Iraque, Huricane Katrina...

Obama got Syrian war...

Clinton got war in Iraque , Bosnia and Herzegovina,

diffrent presidents diffrent point of views. But when You judge a president do you judge how he was elected? or do You judge how he managed the economy? Its hars to be a good leader when you dont have support of the whole country and evyrone wants to make you stupid... the all had this problem.
 
EgOarppWoAImNKf


What's with the fascist aesthetics? They couldn't make it look more ominous even if they'd tried.
 
swiftfox said:
I have to watch the RNC because of my job.
Click to expand...

My deepest condolences. Hang in there!

Matleo said:
I watch a lot of statistics lately but no one says some things...

Trump got Corona Virus , Syria and many new Hurricanse.

Bush had 9/11,Iraque, Huricane Katrina...

Obama got Syrian war...

Clinton got war in Iraque , Bosnia and Herzegovina,

diffrent presidents diffrent point of views. But when You judge a president do you judge how he was elected? or do You judge how he managed the economy? Its hars to be a good leader when you dont have support of the whole country and evyrone wants to make you stupid... the all had this problem.
Click to expand...

Meh. The metrics by which the pre-COVID19 Trump economy was "great" are flawed and speak to largely to the success of the rich and not everyone else. I can't believe there are poor people in this country that buy into the lies of Trump's "great" economy.
 
Matleo said:
I watch a lot of statistics lately but no one says some things...

Trump got Corona Virus , Syria and many new Hurricanse.

Bush had 9/11,Iraque, Huricane Katrina...

Obama got Syrian war...

Clinton got war in Iraque , Bosnia and Herzegovina,

diffrent presidents diffrent point of views. But when You judge a president do you judge how he was elected? or do You judge how he managed the economy? Its hars to be a good leader when you dont have support of the whole country and evyrone wants to make you stupid... the all had this problem.
Click to expand...
All those presidents had to deal with hurricanes, not just Trump.

The fact is, problems that happen in the US affects its economy. A president doesn't get to say "Well, I couldn't have predicted that this problem was going to come," because we can all reasonably assume that there's going to be some kind of problem during a president's term, even if we can't predict exactly what. (I honestly don't think any president should get the full credit for economic change, unless we're talking about a specific action like the New Deal, because the economy's also affected by other branches like Congress planning the national budget, and factors outside of government control, like resource shortages/surpluses or the decisions of consumers, but that's another matter)

When this is Trump's initial response to corona:
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

Low Ratings Fake News MSDNC (Comcast) & @CNN are doing everything possible to make the Caronavirus look as bad as possible, including panicking markets, if possible. Likewise their incompetent Do Nothing Democrat comrades are all talk, no action. USA in great shape!

And months into the virus, he's saying stuff like this:

THE PRESIDENT: Can you take it off? Because I cannot hear you.

Q I’ll — I’ll just speak louder, sir. The —

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, okay, because you want to be politically correct. Go ahead.

Q No, sir. I just want to wear the mask.


Mike Pence, who’s a phenomenal guy, he’s making the commencement address right now at the Air Force Academy, where they’re being very politically correct. Everyone is standing not 6 feet but 10 feet apart.

And when his "ban on China", by his own admission, let in 40,000 people:
But I had to let them come back. I actually said, “Maybe we could keep them there for a while.” These are American citizens. I had to let them come back, Martha. So we had 40,000 people. Now, when the Democrats said it, “He said he closed the border, but he let 40,000,” they don’t say they were American citizens.

Then the economic problems from Corona were, undoubtedly, made worse by his actions.

(And also- what exactly was so great about the pre-corona economy to begin with?)

Matleo said:
Its hars to be a good leader when you dont have support of the whole country and evyrone wants to make you stupid...
Click to expand...
Trump hardly needs our help making him look stupid.
Remarks by President Trump in Meeting with Local and State Officials on School Safety said:
You see these movies, they’re so violent. And yet a kid is able to see the movie if sex isn’t involved, but killing is involved, and maybe they have to put a rating system for that.
Click to expand...
Remarks by President Trump at a Salute to America said:
In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army out of the revolutionary forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington, Commander-in-Chief. The Continental Army suffered the bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware, and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown. Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts. It took over the airports. It did everything it had to do. And at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, it had nothing but victory. And when dawn came, their Star Spangled Banner waved defiant.
Click to expand...
Remarks by President Trump and President Macron of France in Joint Press Conference | Biarritz said:
Q But which alliance will be more important: with the EU or with Britain?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Both. I don’t want to say which. Look, I think that — I think that the — I think we have been with, I guess you would start off by saying, “England.” Right? You know, I ask Boris, “Where’s England? What’s happening with England?” They don’t use it too much anymore. We talked about it. It was very interesting. But the United Kingdom is a great, incredible place. It’s an incredible nation. And it’s, you know, been one of our tremendous allies.
Click to expand...
Remarks by President Trump said:
Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.
Click to expand...
Remarks by President Trump on the Death of ISIS Leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi said:
And they did a lot of shooting, and they did a lot of blasting, even not going through the front door. You know, you would think you go through the door. If you’re a normal person, you say, “Knock, knock. May I come in?” The fact is that they blasted their way into the house and a very heavy wall, and it took them literally seconds. By the time those things went off, they had a beautiful, big hole, and they ran in and they got everybody by surprise.
Click to expand...
 
Shiny Celebi said:
A lot claimed to be crazy about Bernie but refused to show up to actually vote for him, so I dont have very much faith despite them claiming enthusiasm and their hatred of Trump.
Click to expand...
Not that I'm being skeptical of you, but do you have a source for this?

And I'm trying to not stress over the online left...but it's really hard because some of them are my friends. And also some of them are BIPOC, so I feel like that by ignoring them I would be dismissive to their real-life struggles.
 
For years Trump complained about Obama playing golf.

trumpgolfcount.com

Trump Golf Count

Trump Golf Count: Tracking President Trump's golf outings so you don't have to!
trumpgolfcount.com trumpgolfcount.com
 
Blockhead Pippi said:
Not that I'm being skeptical of you, but do you have a source for this?
Click to expand...
A common argument from leftist pundits is their policy ideas represent the overwhelming majority of Americans. Having heard and read about this ad nauseam for the last 5 years and watched the results of the Democratic primary, I feel it’s safe to conclude leftists didn’t bother to vote, greatly overestimated their appeal, or both.
 
While there are leftists who have expressed refusal to vote because of less-than-ideal candidates, I've also been trying to keep a critical and thorough mindset about lots of things. It's one thing to say that "leftists don't vote", but do we know the exact reasons or obstacles that prevent their vote? Is some of it due to voter suppression (which commonly targets minorities and young people), conflicting schedules because of jobs being too demanding, or other reasons getting in the way?

Maybe this isn't the right thread to discuss this though. I want leftists to vote of course, I'm just...not sure if all of this can be chalked up to "they don't want to vote because lazy or whatever".
 
Bernie had a lot of online support from young people and he kinda depended on them to push him through the primaries. That didnt happen and he took a huge hit on Super Tuesday, and the rest of the time though he kept on plugging along. He simply didnt get the votes to win,even though others got less and dropped out one by one. Im not saying they didnt because they were lazy,and there probably was quite a lot of voter suppression in some areas, but there were also other reasons they didnt vote for him despite wanting him to have the nomination, supporting Medicare For All and things like that.
 
TechSkylander1518 said:
I like to imagine it being completely destroyed. It helps me fall asleep.
Click to expand...

Trump should have completely destroyed it. But then it turned out that Trump, in all of his awfulness, was what a number of the Republican base wanted.

There are a lot of reasons election night in 2016 destroyed my faith in this nation, that was one of them.
 
TechSkylander1518 said:
All those presidents had to deal with hurricanes, not just Trump.

The fact is, problems that happen in the US affects its economy. A president doesn't get to say "Well, I couldn't have predicted that this problem was going to come," because we can all reasonably assume that there's going to be some kind of problem during a president's term, even if we can't predict exactly what. (I honestly don't think any president should get the full credit for economic change, unless we're talking about a specific action like the New Deal, because the economy's also affected by other branches like Congress planning the national budget, and factors outside of government control, like resource shortages/surpluses or the decisions of consumers, but that's another matter)

When this is Trump's initial response to corona:
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

Low Ratings Fake News MSDNC (Comcast) & @CNN are doing everything possible to make the Caronavirus look as bad as possible, including panicking markets, if possible. Likewise their incompetent Do Nothing Democrat comrades are all talk, no action. USA in great shape!

And months into the virus, he's saying stuff like this:

THE PRESIDENT: Can you take it off? Because I cannot hear you.
Q I’ll — I’ll just speak louder, sir. The —
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, okay, because you want to be politically correct. Go ahead.
Q No, sir. I just want to wear the mask.


Mike Pence, who’s a phenomenal guy, he’s making the commencement address right now at the Air Force Academy, where they’re being very politically correct. Everyone is standing not 6 feet but 10 feet apart.

And when his "ban on China", by his own admission, let in 40,000 people:
But I had to let them come back. I actually said, “Maybe we could keep them there for a while.” These are American citizens. I had to let them come back, Martha. So we had 40,000 people. Now, when the Democrats said it, “He said he closed the border, but he let 40,000,” they don’t say they were American citizens.

Then the economic problems from Corona were, undoubtedly, made worse by his actions.

(And also- what exactly was so great about the pre-corona economy to begin with?)


Trump hardly needs our help making him look stupid.
Click to expand...

but what amount of hurricanes, bush fires, earthquakes?

Local state government then want help and money for federal but what did they did to save money or to try to predict events and minimise effects before?

amounts and numbers are important here , bc it affects countries debt and problems a president has later when second term or new president comes...

the same comes to recesions, finacial piramids, bank crisises that were a matter from lack of control from previous govrnments, parties and presidents... Lehman brothers bank crisis was something that happeneds during Clinton, Bush and on begin of Obama term... 2008 revealed but shemes with Murdoch were 20 or 30 years old... Bush senior would fit here too...

did you see economical stats comparing all presidents ?


















howmuch.net

Fact Check: The Best & Worst Presidents for Job Growth Since World War II

Trump and Obama both claim credit for a strong economy and high job growth numbers. Our visualization shows you the real track record of job growth for each president going all the way back to the Great Depression.
howmuch.net














people complaine about Obamas Debt but forget that big investments come every 70 years and you need to restore cities, buildings, streets and power grids , power facilities, water facilities and other stuff in the country too... also every thing like Obamacare and every social costs...

Private companies and corporations also use presidents and parties to hide their own hidden debts for salaries and other stuff that people forget... crime rates also are important.

Need to check fake news... especially last 3 or 4 presidents affected by that.

People forget that a president can befrom one party, the House and senate can belong to a other , the same with State local govrnments and the taxes and payments are created by federal and state governments together... time by time, when there is the same president 2 terms of office and his party has the House and senat and most local governments it's more easy to see... when comparing presidents in term of office they should also give information how many % ofstates where under what party, house and senat to see the whole full picture how and who affected the economy, crime and other things like homelessness, suiscide statistics and many other important stuff.

also amount of people changed during diffrent presidents... amount of children born and death rates... a good president can be judged after his full term.

Biden was Obama vice president , but would the Obama administration do better here? who really knows? because all people are responsible for themselvs too to some degree during a pandemic... media also have influence here a lot.
 
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Matleo said:
Biden was Obama vice president , but would the Obama administration do better here? who really knows? because all people are responsible for themselvs too to some degree during a pandemic... media also have influence here a lot.
Click to expand...
Considering the Pandemic Response Team was established under Obama and disbanded by Trump, I think it’s safe to assume that yes they probably would have been more prepared.
 
Matleo said:
did you see economical stats comparing all presidents ?
Click to expand...
Let me restate what I said before:
TechSkylander1518 said:
I honestly don't think any president should get the full credit for economic change, unless we're talking about a specific action like the New Deal, because the economy's also affected by other branches like Congress planning the national budget, and factors outside of government control, like resource shortages/surpluses or the decisions of consumers
Click to expand...
Unless you can point to specific policies, pulling a stat without context is not a convincing case.

And, dude, you're just pulling random stats here and not even giving them the context. Look at this one:


Matleo said:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeyLDHFIUAAOUm4.png
https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2016/07/14/PRESECON-Inequality_0.JPG
Click to expand...
1598457234519.png
1598457918290.png
"Income gap". That's all the title says. Income gap between who? Men and women? White people and black people? Working class people and CEOs? And these charts only go up to 2012- there's nothing showing what happened in Obama's second term, or what's happened in Trump's term so far. How exactly is that supposed to help us judge Trump in comparison to other presidents?
Matleo said:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/410/cpsprodpb/16338/production/_105363909_policy-nc.png
Click to expand...
1598457748587.png
This one isn't even about economics, it's about how often they kept a promise.
Matleo said:
https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/20200215_WOC186.png
Click to expand...
1598458084680.png
This is about ethnic diversity in appointing judges. Again, not an economic stat.
Matleo said:
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Murder-Rate1.png
Click to expand...
1598457986146.png
This is the murder rate. Murder is not a source of income. It has nothing to do with economics. And, again, what policies can you point to that affected this?
Matleo said:
people complaine about Obamas Debt but forget that big investments come every 70 years and you need to restore cities, buildings, streets and power grids , power facilities, water facilities and other stuff in the country too... also every thing like Obamacare and every social costs...
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone here is complaining about Obama's debt against Trump.
Matleo said:
Need to check fake news... especially last 3 or 4 presidents affected by that.
Click to expand...
Using a vague reference to "fake news" says nothing. Who is lying? About what? I linked all of my quotes, they are all direct links to his twitter account or whitehouse.gov transcripts. Where's the fake news there?
Matleo said:
People forget that a president can befrom one party, the House and senate can belong to a other , the same with State local govrnments and the taxes and payments are created by federal and state governments together... time by time, when there is the same president 2 terms of office and his party has the House and senat and most local governments it's more easy to see... when comparing presidents in term of office they should also give information how many % ofstates where under what party, house and senat to see the whole full picture how and who affected the economy, crime and other things like homelessness, suiscide statistics and many other important stuff.
Click to expand...
And yet, you pulled a bunch of statistics to compare presidents, without looking at the whole picture of who affected what.
Matleo said:
also amount of people changed during diffrent presidents... amount of children born and death rates...
Click to expand...
And adapting to that change is something we should expect a president to do, it's not an excuse for them.
Matleo said:
a good president can be judged after his full term.
Click to expand...
I don't think Trump can do anything in these next four months that will radically alter what he's done in the prior 3.75 years. And do you really think people can't judge what they see happening in 2016-2020 until Trump's term is completed in 2021? That's not reasonable at all. You even did this yourself, bringing up charts to compare with Trump stats from 2018.
Matleo said:
Biden was Obama vice president , but would the Obama administration do better here? who really knows?
Click to expand...
I'm certainly willing to hedge my bets on the candidate who says we should wear masks over the candidate who called it "political correctness".
Matleo said:
because all people are responsible for themselvs too to some degree during a pandemic...
Click to expand...
There are multiple factors in play. You can talk about personal choice and also talk about the fact that Trump said people should "liberate" their states, that the coronavirus was being played up, and that shutting down was worse for the nation, which all lead to people thinking the virus wasn't that bad and making decisions based on that.
Matleo said:
media also have influence here a lot.
Click to expand...
Again, according to Trump, "media" was taking the virus seriously before he was.

Low Ratings Fake News MSDNC (Comcast) & @CNN are doing everything possible to make the Caronavirus look as bad as possible, including panicking markets, if possible. Likewise their incompetent Do Nothing Democrat comrades are all talk, no action. USA in great shape!

If the media did "everything possible" to make it look bad while Trump claimed the US was in great shape, that's more of a case for listening to news outlets over Trump, not the other way around.

Oh, we can also go by these statements:

View: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1298029780437270530


View: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1276363261957603328


Straight from the horse's mouth: Biden would shut down if necessary, Trump would not. So, yeah, Biden would do better.
 
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