American Politics Thread

[Boss1708]

Why do you assume I'm on "the left"?

Because of everything you have written here.

So please, tell me about WaPo's left bias.

I don't have any examples saved on my phone. I would have to look for such examples on the internet, and I honestly think you could do that yourself.

Really? Everyone except for one news company is left-wing?

Virtually, yes. Because those that were neutral in the past (WaPo, NYT, etc) moved to the left.

Nationalism is inherently divisive because it highlights perceived differences between people, emphasizing an individual's identification with their own nation.

Quite the opposite. Nationalism highlights the common ground of the inhabitants of a country. And therefore, it unites the inhabitants around a common concept: the nation.

The idea is also potentially oppressive because it submerges individual identity within a national whole, and gives elites or political leaders potential opportunities to manipulate or control the masses.

This is not an issue in free, democratic countries like USA or Western Europe. It is only a problem in countries like China and North Korea. Which happen to be Communist countries btw.

In his classic essay on the topic George Orwell distinguishes nationalism from patriotism, which he defines as devotion to a particular place. Nationalism, more abstractly, is "power-hunger tempered by self-deception."

Oh, so you just prefer the word "Patriotism" over the word "Nationalism"? Ok, I have no problem with that. Let's call it Patriotism.

But just so you know, anybody who talks about Nationalism, means it as a synonym of Patriotism.

You didn't actually post any direct examples. I'd like to see them myself.

I don't have time to look for examples right now. I may add something later.

 

[Weiss]

Spoiler

There's no double standard. The US has unconditional birthright citizenship; anyone born in the US or one of its territories is granted full American citizenship, period.


That happens to be around the same time as a major event that completely reshaped American society. Probably not a coincidence.


It is racist under Federal law: Trump's Tweets So Clearly Racist It's Spelled Out In Discrimination Law


What's the article wrong about?

Always worth remembering: that "tiny minority" started a massive World War that killed more than 50 million people.
Also, nobody's trying to ban the word "nationalism." No need to make up conflicts that aren't there.

BTW, Trump's rally in North Carolina last night was terrifying. I have a bad feeling this will only get worse as we get closer to election day.

In what way?

 

[Weiss]

@Volphied Do you suggest we do away with Nations? Have the entire third world turn up at your door looking for social security benefits?

The reasons nations exist is to prevent conflict. “Diverse” groups of people do not get along well the only reason it “worked” in the West was the supermajority of the indigenous population.Take India for example there are many different ethnicities united by Hinduism. The moment one of the non-Hindu groups steps out of line there tends to be massacres. So the minorities tend to integrate far better than recent arrivals to Europe or America.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that massacres or violence are desirable outcomes but what is and what ought to be are two different things. Look at the Balkans the moment the looming threat of the Tito? Was gone they started genocide.

 

[Volphied]

How are Democrats at fault here? Are they really just supposed to "go back to their countries"?

I remember something along the lines of “It’s time for white people to shut and listen to black and brown voices” said at one of the DNC meetings. Joe Biden is too old and white to run or another old white man etc. The Democrats seem to me to be the ones hyper focused on race and that’s just some of it.

May you post any proof of that happening? I have a feeling it was more complicated than you're depicting it.

Again I’m not trying to pick sides here it’s not my fight I don’t care but I’m annoyed when people conflate things with other things that are not true. There is nothing wrong with being a nationalist it has nothing inherently to do with racism.

History shows otherwise.

Because of everything you have written here.

Such as?

I don't have any examples saved on my phone.

Pity.

I would have to look for such examples on the internet, and I honestly think you could do this yourself.

I did, and found nothing. Which is why I hoped you'd help me.

Virtually, yes. Because those that were neutral (WaPo, NYT, etc) moved on the left.

How did they move to the left?

Quite the opposite. Nationalism highlights the common ground of the inhabitants of a country.

As we can see with Trump's latest rally, the definition of "inhabitant of a country" became much narrower. This is what makes Nationalism dangerous, especially the White Nationalism pushed by Trump.

I don't have time to look for examples right now. I may add something later.

I'll be waiting.

In what way?

View: https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1151639430194532353

 

[Weiss]

I’m not sure how bias this website is but they claim it comes from a study at the University of Arizona which I’m not familiar with. Selected it as it was the first hit on Google.

“What they found surprised them. Even the supposedly hard-nosed financial reporters were overwhelmingly liberal. Of the 462 people surveyed, 17.63% called themselves "very liberal," while 40.84% described themselves as "somewhat liberal." “

Media Bias: Pretty Much All Of Journalism Now Leans Left, Study Shows | Investor's Business Daily

The media have drifted to the far left on the political spectrum. Yet again, a major study of media bias shows just how far from the center they are.

www.investors.com

 

[Volphied]

@Volphied Do you suggest we do away with Nations? Have the entire third world turn up at your door looking for social security benefits?

The reasons nations exist is to prevent conflict. “Diverse” groups of people do not get along well the only reason it “worked” in the West was the supermajority of the indigenous population.Take India for example there are many different ethnicities united by Hinduism. The moment one of the non-Hindu groups steps out of line there tends to be massacres. So the minorities tend to integrate far better than recent arrivals to Europe or America.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that massacres or violence are desirable outcomes but what is and what ought to be are two different things. Look at the Balkans the moment the looming threat of the Tito? Was gone they started genocide.

I'm sorry, but you just gave a perfect example of Nationalism fueling conflicts and massacres. The Balkans have a sordid history with nationalist violence.

 

[Volphied]

I’m not sure how bias this website is but they claim it comes from a study at the University of Arizona which I’m not familiar with. Selected it as it was the first hit on Google.

“What they found surprised them. Even the supposedly hard-nosed financial reporters were overwhelmingly liberal. Of the 462 people surveyed, 17.63% called themselves "very liberal," while 40.84% described themselves as "somewhat liberal." “

Media Bias: Pretty Much All Of Journalism Now Leans Left, Study Shows | Investor's Business Daily

The media have drifted to the far left on the political spectrum. Yet again, a major study of media bias shows just how far from the center they are.

www.investors.com

The personal political beliefs of financial reporters don't necessarily have an effect on financial reporting. You can hold left-wing or right-wing beliefs and still write factually. So this isn't really any proof of a supposed left-wing bias in reporting from every news company that isn't Fox News.

 

[Weiss]

May you post any proof of that happening? I have a feeling it was more complicated than you're depicting it.

I believe her name was Sally Boynton Brown there are too many hits for me to find the clip I believe the video is 30 minutes long. If I can be bothered I’ll find it it did trend on YouTube at the time so I’m surprised you didn’t see this.

As for the comments on Biden and Sanders’s race just Google.

Regarding the woman is she the one who has voiced support for terrorists groups? I’m afraid that would bar her from office and in most countries and if she is not a native ie a refugee/immigrant even with citizenship that would be stripped and she would be expelled.

 

[Weiss]

I'm sorry, but you just gave a perfect example of Nationalism fueling conflicts and massacres. The Balkans have a sordid history with nationalist violence.

That’s the opposite if they had not been forced together unwillingly there would have been no conflict. It’s why supranational structures like the USSR and EU and other empires always fail eventually.

 

[Weiss]

The personal political beliefs of financial reporters don't necessarily have an effect on financial reporting. You can hold left-wing or right-wing beliefs and still write factually. So this isn't really any proof of a supposed left-wing bias in reporting from every news company that isn't Fox News.

So reporting on the economy has no political implications depending on how it is reported? Interesting...

 

[Volphied]

I believe her name was Sally Boynton Brown there are too many hits for me to find the clip I believe the video is 30 minutes long. If I can be bothered I’ll find it it did trend on YouTube at the time so I’m surprised you didn’t see this.

I don't follow trending youtube videos anymore. Last time I did it was recommending flat earth conspiracy videos.

As for the comments on Biden and Sanders’s race just Google.

I'm sorry but I'm not finding anything about them that would apply to what you said.

Regarding the woman is she the one who has voiced support for terrorists groups? I’m afraid that would bar her from office and in most countries and if she is not a native ie a refugee/immigrant even with citizenship that would be stripped and she would be expelled.

When did she voiced support for terrorists?

That’s the opposite if they had not been forced together unwillingly there would have been no conflict. It’s why supranational structures like the USSR and EU and other empires always fail eventually.

That's not entirely true. Serbia was waging a war to estabilish "Greater Serbia" by forcefully annexing Bosnia and Croatia and massacring its population. They were not willing to accept the present borders of the Serbian state.

So reporting on the economy has no political implications depending on how it is reported? Interesting...

You're misreading what I said. Again, factual reporting isn't biased left or right, even if the person reporting it hold personal beliefs. And your link doesn't say that these journalists are slanting their reports.

 

[Boss1708]

Such as?

Such as you implying that a significant portion Trumps voters are racist? And that he panders to them?

Pity.

Well, I don't exactly go saving examples of WaPo's leftist bias on my phone. I just smile when I see an example, and move on.

I did, and found nothing. Which is why I hoped you'd help me.

Try harder

How did they move to the left?

Idk. I suppose they moved to the left to push someone's agenda.

As we can see with Trump's latest rally, the definition of "inhabitant of a country" became much narrower. This is what makes Nationalism dangerous, especially the White Nationalism pushed by Trump.

Trump is not pushing White Nationalism. Just Nationalism. Including whites and blacks and Asians.

I'll be waiting.

Ok.

Edit: here you have:

Liberals Perfected 'Paranoia And Fear' In Politics.

No one is innocent when it comes to manipulating voters with emotion. That no one includes a lot of liberals.

thefederalist.com

 

[Weiss]

So reporting on the economy has no political implications depending on how it is reported? Interesting...

Also Fox is bias but to claim they are the only one. The reason they singled out finance was to show even historically right leaning topics like this have a left bias. If you’d even read any of the link other than the blurb I posted you would see.

 

[Boss1708]

That’s the opposite if they had not been forced together unwillingly there would have been no conflict. It’s why supranational structures like the USSR and EU and other empires always fail eventually.

Amen.

 

[Weiss]

@Volphied You didn’t search top 3 hits are WaPo Salon and the Root. I’m not going to continue if your just going to flat out deny everything. I searched logged out of Google and in an incognito window so my personal search history does not effect the result.

As for YouTube if it’s recommending you Flat Earth videos it’s based on the content you watch...

 

[Volphied]

Such as you implying that a significant portion Trumps voters are racist? And that he panders to them?

Did you pay attention during his latest rally? He was precisely pandering to them by having the crowd go racist with "go back home" chants.

Well, I don't exactly go saving examples of WaPo's leftist bias on my phone. I just smile when I see an example, and move on.

Such as?

Try harder

I think the onus is on you to bring proof for your claims, not me. Claims without proof can be freely dismissed.

Idk. I suppose they moved to the left to push someone's agenda.

How did they move?

Trump is not pushing White Nationalism. Just Nationalism. Including whites and blacks and Asians.

American Politics Thread

Yeah, I don’t think we need democrats running on explicitly anti socialist platforms in any positions of power at this point Implicitly anti-socialist campaigns aren't very much better. I don't expect Booker or Harris would be much better on that front than Hickenlooper or Ryan.

forums.bulbagarden.net

Also Fox is bias but to claim they are the only one. The reason they singled out finance was to show even historically right leaning topics like this have a left bias. If you’d even read any of the link other than the blurb I posted you would see.

Again, your link isn't claiming that the reports they do are themselves biased. People are able to hold personal beliefs without it influencing their work.

 

[Volphied]

@Volphied You didn’t search top 3 hits are WaPo Salon and the Root. I’m not going to continue if your just going to flat out deny everything. I searched logged out of Google and in an incognito window so my personal search history does not effect the result.

I'd much rather if you'd link me those articles, so that we're certain to talk about the same thing and not something entirely separate.

As for YouTube if it’s recommending you Flat Earth videos it’s based on the content you watch...

Not really, Youtube's algorithm is infamous for pushing up click-bait and outrage-bait along with fake news.

 

[Volphied]

Edit: here you have:

Liberals Perfected 'Paranoia And Fear' In Politics.

No one is innocent when it comes to manipulating voters with emotion. That no one includes a lot of liberals.

thefederalist.com

I find it funny that that conservative writer claims that liberal fears of a ban on birth control is irrational. So is his claim about remainer fears over Brexit affecting every aspect of life.

Guess things changed since 2016 when that article you linked was written.

He also doesn't really disprove that right wingers use emotional language and fearmongering. His argument basically boils down to "no u" which is laughable.

But I guess that's to be expected, since The Federalist is a leading disseminator of pro-Trump conspiracies. The entire website is a right-wing rag seeped in fear.

 

[Weiss]

I find it funny that that conservative writer claims that liberal fears of a ban on birth control is irrational. So is his claim that remainer fears over Brexit affecting every aspect of life.

Guess things changed since 2016 when that article you linked was written.

He also doesn't really disprove that right wingers use emotional language and fearmongering. His argument basically boils down to "no u" which is laughable.

But I guess that's to be expected, since The Federalist is a leading disseminator of pro-Trump conspiracies. The entire website is a right-wing rag seeped in fear.

First I’m not going to link all those articles if you want them DM.

Secondly I am not a conservative/right-wing person I just hate the state of the left at the moment. You clearly have a bias if you think it’s only the right that appeal to emotion. That’s rhetoric and it’s what the majority of people respond to.

Look at that congress woman calling the immigration centres concentration camps or saying the world will end in 12 years if we don’t ban all planes etc (meanwhile she flew to Pax-West?). Again I’m happy to link you in DMs if you wish to continue this but I feel your bot being honest. If you search for it will show up there are numerous links I’m not going to sit and read them all to post them here.

Just the fact that one exists is proof again of the double standard if it was he’s too black to run or not another black man you for sure know about it.

 

[Volphied]

First I’m not going to link all those articles if you want them DM.

You don't have to link them all. Just one is enough for me.

Secondly I am not a conservative/right-wing person I just hate the state of the left at the moment. You clearly have a bias if you think it’s only the right that appeal to emotion. That’s rhetoric and it’s what the majority of people respond to.

And I'm not liberal/left-wing. I merely hate the state the right is at the moment. I never said it's "the right" as a whole entity that's appealing to emotion. I said it's one particular website that is doing it.

Look at that congress woman calling the immigration centres concentration camps

What is wrong about that? Roosevelt referred to the WW2 camps where Japanese-Americans were held as concentration camps too.

or saying the world will end in 12 years if we don’t ban all planes etc (meanwhile she flew to Pax-West?)

I don't believe she said that. It is however true that there's an ongoing climate crisis. That's not a liberal/conservative thing. That's just science.

but I feel your bot being honest

What makes you think that?