Music An Explanation For Why Japanese Tracks Are Replaced In The Dub

[Alola]

The topic on why the localization of Pokemon replaces a majority of the original music score has been a hot topic for a many a fan. While I've witnessed conversations, I don't recall an actual concrete explanation as to why this phenomena occurs. If someone has explained it, I apologize-I probably missed your post or didn't fully understand what you were saying. If you're like me and didn't know, here's a video from Rachael Lillis and Eric Stuart's Fan Expo Q&A Panel in Canada, from last year. In the clip, someone asks the question as to why the music is replaced, to which Eric provided the answer with a simple explanation:

View: https://youtu.be/nKL6W8ctQ5w
​

Basically, it's all because 4Kids (at the time) had the brilliant idea to have residuals on their localized work, to make more money. People that license the music for shows earn residuals from when & where they're played. Thus, rather than allowing the original music licensees to have that, 4Kids (and later TCPi) decided to fill localized episodes with their own music-that way, they could still make money even if Pokemon aired in other parts of the world with different voice actors speaking other languages; their dubbed music still plays, and thus they still make money.

From a business standpoint, I have to admit I don't see the flaw in their plan. It's a smart way to make even more money. It also explains why Yu-Gi-Oh (who Stuart also worked on) and Digimon also changed a majority, if not all, of their musical scores too; it's a practice they kept, I guess.

However, you have anime like Bleach, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, etc. whose music wasn't changed for the sake of money. I greatly appreciate this as I've come to love a lot music from these series. It's a shame because there's such amazing music and renditions that dub watchers wouldn't ordinarily get to hear, due to this practice. This also confirms for me that TCPi is fully capable of keeping every track within an episode; they just choose not to. However, there's probably an agreement where a percentage of tracks are kept-which is what we sparsely hear. Anyway, if this information was already common knowledge or such, I apologize. I honestly didn't know and as someone who was recently disappointed with the music absent from Journeys, I thought this was worth sharing with the community as well as a great discussion topic.

 

[Momentum]

I still remember how BW started off with all the BGM intact for the first five episodes, and even afterwards, wasn't nearly as heavy-handed with replacing it as it is now. I can see why they do it, but I wish they handled it the same way done with BW.

 

[Rocket Messiah]

The dub music from XY and SM it's terrible,no tension no anything, those shitty late-motifs. That tatatananan when Team Rocket attacks terrible, 4kids was much better at this at least they used the victory themes.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv87lkkSr18



Ed Golfarb or whatever he is called should feel ashamed of himself.

Edit: The Batman music I swear to god I hear it in every episode even in the Kukui battle and Motherbeast Lusamine battle. Stupid really stupid.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUpcUjrbTc

 

[Dogasu]

I've been saying that the dubbers were just wanting to make money off the residuals for YEARS at this point but it's good to have official confirmation of this.

But I don't think it's all that clever a business strategy because if it was then 1) 4Kids would still exist, and 2) other anime dubbing companies would still be doing the same thing. But, like, the Pokémon dub is basically the only anime dub currently in production in the year 2020 that still does this.

I also find it a bit slimy that the whole "we'll get residuals when it airs overseas" plan hinges on the premise that foreign dubbers will do the right thing and not replace the background music the way they so callously did.

 

[Daren]

I suspected this was it; I believe that's what happened with Dragon Ball Z as well.

 

[Schemer99]

I suspected this was it; I believe that's what happened with Dragon Ball Z as well.

At least DBZ's music was better by a mile.

 

[Nicolas721]

It's cool to have an answer, but I'd like one from the executives themselves that also answers why M21 and 22's scores weren't replaced...

I also find it a bit slimy that the whole "we'll get residuals when it airs overseas" plan hinges on the premise that foreign dubbers will do the right thing and not replace the background music the way they so callously did.

Most dubs aren't able to afford producing their own music, here in Latin America the only case I know is 2018 Captain Tsubasa's opening and ending. Also, it's possible that the contracts have a clause that your only option if you want to distribute the product is to buy the music too.

 

[Yash]

I've been saying that the dubbers were just wanting to make money off the residuals for YEARS at this point but it's good to have official confirmation of this.

But I don't think it's all that clever a business strategy because if it was then 1) 4Kids would still exist, and 2) other anime dubbing companies would still be doing the same thing. But, like, the Pokémon dub is basically the only anime dub currently in production in the year 2020 that still does this.

I also find it a bit slimy that the whole "we'll get residuals when it airs overseas" plan hinges on the premise that foreign dubbers will do the right thing and not replace the background music the way they so callously did.

Look at One Piece. 4Kids produced 104 episodes with their own soundtrack. Funimation retained the original Japanese score. They have produced nearly six hundred episodes.

Kind of makes me wonder though what the logic is behind certain choices. Why are some tracks kept but others not? Why will they keep the soundtrack in the movies (for the most part) but not in the TV series? If it's a matter of residuals, why not just fill in the silent gaps with their own stuff but keep everything they can? Maybe they get more depending on how much of the music is theirs, but then why keep anything at all?

All seems rather bizarre. Someone did once send me an internal memo from TPCI that suggested there's some rhyme or reason to what gets retained, but it seems like kind of a grab-bag when viewed in totality.

 

[kantoskies]

I think the only piece of music that is consistently kept is the Team Rocket motto music, and even then its usually replaced if it’s a vocal version (the early XYZ episodes using vocal Team Song ) or if it’s switched with unique music. They also tend to keep game battle music more frequently but it’s still not really consistent.

The most interesting part of this was that apparently, at least when 4Kids was still in charge, sometimes a deal would be made with Japan to not replace music. I wonder if they require a bare minimum percentage to be kept per season? Do they even know about how the dub splits the show up per season? That could explain why the average amount kept per episode has fluctuated so much over the years.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm not too surprised. Konami Cross Media, which is basically made up of the remains of 4Kids, still replaces the music for their Yu-Gi-Oh! dubs today. I don't know how helpful this practice was for 4Kids in the long term. It probably gave them some immediate money, but it probably didn't do much else for the company. I don't think it was a reason why 4Kids went under, but it does seem even more unnecessary in retrospect. 4Kids wasn't into specifically licensing anime like Funimation, but they always did seem to have a challenge doing what other companies were easily able to do. It was such a huge legal challenge for them to even get official subs for some of their series while other companies are able to release them along with the dubs or have simulcast subs.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Ugh I really do wish they'd just keep the original music. To be fair to 4Kids, though, I did actually like their music - it wasn't as good as the original but it didn't leave me wanting to tear my hair out like TPCi's score does.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

The actual reason makes sense from a business standpoint, and back during the 4kids era, the music was actually pretty good. The Ed Goldfarb era though is just awful. The music rarely ever catches the right tone of the scene, and I don't like how they hardly keep remixed versions of music from the actual games in.

 

[SKYRYAN]

Which is why I remove the music from the english dub version and the voices from the Japanese version so that the Japanese music remains.

Which is what I'm doing right now. I'm making Pokemon Sun and Moon: Ultra Legends a proper dub, with Pokeproblm being dubbed, the japanese music kept, and the Japanese OP and ED dubbed. BTW, Notebook of Heart is the only song not dubbed by anyone. I also will translate what the Pokemon are saying as well.

 

[Cookiefication]

Look at One Piece. 4Kids produced 104 episodes with their own soundtrack. Funimation retained the original Japanese score. They have produced nearly six hundred episodes.

Kind of makes me wonder though what the logic is behind certain choices. Why are some tracks kept but others not? Why will they keep the soundtrack in the movies (for the most part) but not in the TV series? If it's a matter of residuals, why not just fill in the silent gaps with their own stuff but keep everything they can? Maybe they get more depending on how much of the music is theirs, but then why keep anything at all?

All seems rather bizarre. Someone did once send me an internal memo from TPCI that suggested there's some rhyme or reason to what gets retained, but it seems like kind of a grab-bag when viewed in totality.

^Basically... all of this. It's cool to have the They Get Money theory officially confirmed, but I do wonder why they currently just don't go all the way (I'm assuming they still need to keep at least one piece of music per episode, for reasons). There are still plenty of unanswered questions regardless.

I think the biggest question I've had for years now is: What exactly happened during DP, where they started to keep silence more and more? There's always talk about music replacement, but it seems like nobody ever mentions how silence started showing up *very* regularly, and for lengthy periods of time. In fact, entire portions of original episode BG audio would be left alone (no dub filler between Japanese tracks, no replacements, nothing- and I'm not just talking about the random episodes that were left entirely alone, too, like DP142 or DP146). This is mostly true for episodes in Season 11/12 onward- pick a random episode, and you'll likely find just that- to varying degrees, of course.

(A literally random YT clip I found, for example)

View: https://youtu.be/YgEb13_LWiA?list=WL&t=9

It's fascinating because again, if they get money for their music... why even bother? Especially when having nothing between dub music pieces, when both 4Kids and TPCi clearly had no problems with that in previous series.
Of course, they stopped with the silence sometime in BW, which sucks. Silence alone makes the show feel much more like a "real" dub IMO, and at the very least I'd like to have that back one day.

 

[kantoskies]

My guess, which is purely speculation on my part, is around season 11 or 12 TPCI started trying to move away from dub replacement music (didn’t they claim they wouldn’t replace the music when they first took over the dub?) with maybe a plan to phase it out entirely one day? I’ll forever be baffled by the first 5 BW episodes having no dub music outside of WTP- surely they had to hire the dub composer before the season began production, so why hold off on replacement music for those first 5 episodes?

 

[pharaohyami5000]

Would it cost more to transfer most media, other than the language, towards over the border of the creator's realms? Like, keeping the music and animations as is while the speaking roles are replaced.

Also, I do wonder why most of the previous music since Best Wishes series began are not used anymore (concerned mainly on the original ones, though dubs can be allowed)?

 

[RustyTrubbish]

So corporate greed huh? Makes sense and a lot of us already kind of knew this based on common sense. You know I wouldn't have a problem with the dub's music changes if their quality of music was on par with the original soundtrack.

 

[SKYRYAN]

Transcript to Yool confronts Goldfarb.

(Yool uses the Skylite crystal to knock the guards out)

(Ed Goldfarb turns around and looks at the Yool)

Ed Goldfarb: Sup!

Yool: I hear the Japanese music, you replaced, Goldfarb. Or should I call you the Jester King!

Ed Goldfarb: Ryan B, you survived.

Yool: Suprised?

Ed Goldfarb: Not particularly. Now, get the Fwog out of my headquarters.

(Ed Goldfarb uses his musical powers at the Yool. But the Yool deflected it with the Stonyx crystal and the Aquanine Crystal).

Ed Goldfarb: What is this power?

Yool: You replaced Shinji Miyasaki's music and Hayashi's!

(Ed Goldfarb was shocked in horror)

Yool: (Continued) You know I got to do the same to yours.

Ed Goldfarb flies through the air, cape flapping, heading toward the exit. At the last second, Yool flies into the exit and stops the dub composer. Ed Goldfarbs gasps.

Yool: (continuing) I'm taking away your music powers for good.

Ed Goldfarb: You will not stop.....

(The Yool uses his Pyrozite crystal, Vegedian crystal, and Aquanine crystal and absorb Goldfarb's power. Ed Goldfarb fell on the floor.)

Yool: The deed is done. And that was a quick song of my great deeds.

(Ed Goldfarb gets up)

Ed Goldfarb: Oh yeah, you want a song? I'll give you a song! 1000000% chance of BATMAN!!!!!!

(Ed Goldfarb attempts to shoots out Batman music, but it just a tiny engine sputtering.)

Yool: Wow, I didn't hear Batman music without those melodies. Were they toots??

(Ed Goldfarb is shocked)

Ed Goldfarb: What did you do?!

Yool: I took away your music power! Now you will never replace Hayashi's music ever again! You might be just a bit Comfey. It's sort of natural. Perhaps you should sit DOWN!!!!!

(The Yool uses his Skylite crystal to throw Ed Goldfarb back, knocking him clear over his desk and onto the ledge. The Yool approaches Ed Goldfarb.)

Yool: Now you know how it feels to be just like everyone else. Isn't it just peachy?

Ed Goldfarb: I'm too weak. Don't kill me! Please!

Yool: Imprison him, Tawkerr. Let him drown in his misery. Now I'm taking what's mine! And my first act as emperor will be to bargain TPCI!!!

Masuda and Hiroki who were reacting to this spitted out their beverages in shock.

Masuda and Hiroki: WHAT?!?!?!

This is based off of Revenge of the Senate 3 from Schaffrilas.

I have all Pokemon Sun and Moon episodes (Both the dub and the Japanese version)! Including the Japanese Passimian episode. I use www.vocalremover.org to remove the dub music and the Japanese voice over. But It limits up to 10 minutes so I split the episodes into 3 parts so then later merge them together.

Then, I will use the JP OP dubs and Jp ED dubs and remove the music cover and mix it to the real instrumental version to blend in.

 

[Dogasu]

Transcript to Yool confronts Goldfarb.

<truncated>

...you do realize that Mr. Goldfarb isn't the one who actually decides to replace the Japanese music, right? He's just the artist TPCI hired to do a job.

 

[SKYRYAN]

(Later The Yool approaches TPCI. He starts a loop before approaching it.)

Yool: TPCI! I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: You’ve come to die. The Japanese music is replaced by Goldfarb.

(TPCI uses HPYER BEAM and it kills the Yool. However it reversed back to the same scene when the Yool approaches TPCI.)

Yool: TPCI! I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: You’ve come to die. The Japanese music is replaced by...What is this? Illusion?

Yool: No, this is real.

TPCI: Good.

(TPCI throw the Yool off the cliff. However it reverse to the same scene like before).

Yool: TPCI! I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: You… what is happening?

Yool: Just as you hired Goldfarb to replace the japanese music, I’ve brought a little power from mine and all his music powers. He's now my prisoner.

TPCI: You dare!

(TPCI uses the fist of Fury and squashed our seasonal hero to a pancake. However it reversed back to the same scene yet again.)

Yool: TPCI! I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: You cannot do this forever.

Yool: Actually, I can. This is how things are now: you and me, trapped in this moment, endlessly.

TPCI: Then you will spend eternity dying.

Yool: Yeah. But everyone on Earth will live.

TPCI: But you will suffer.

Yool: Pain is an old friend.

(TPCI sucks the Yool to a black hole. But it reweinds back to the same scene again!!)

Yool: TPCI! I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: End this!

(Yool attepts to bargain TPCI and he gets killed every time)

Yool: TPCI!… TPCI!… TPCI!… [time loop]

TPCI: You will never win.

Yool: No…But I can lose. Again, and again, and again, and again, forever. And that makes you my prisoner.

(TPCI eats the Yool but it rewinds once more).

TPCI: No. Stop! Make this stop!!! Let us replace the JP Music!

Yool: No. I’ve come to bargain.

TPCI: Oh, what do you want?

Yool: Keep all the JP music for Pokemon Journeys, add back the texts (To be continued, the pokemon's category and name for the Rock Prize Master), never use Godlfarb: do it, and I’ll break the loop.

TPCI: Fine!

(Steve Mayer and Akil Gohpal get turned into Amiibo.)

Yool: You know... They really should put the warnings at the beginning of the book.