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Anime & Manga General Discussion

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So it has indeed happened.
Leon needs to be last but which of our six contestants will be up first?
SelectScreen.JPG

Not my smoothest edit but meh.
 
Enzo said:
I said it once and I'll say it twice:

Ash's beating Alain for the "Break the Internet-positive version" points and then he's getting whooped by Leon at the end.
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Ash beating Alain is a safe bet, but I feel like Leon's definitely gonna lose here too. The entire point of Leon as a character is that he's an unbeatable champion who eventually realizes that he's not unbeatable. When a character comes in screaming "HEY EVERYONE I'M THE NUMBER ONE UNBEATABLE CHAMPION" since day one, and the story constantly reminds you of such, I think it's obvious what's gonna happen to that character by the end of the series. And out of all the contestants we have here, it makes the most sense for the player-character parallel to be the one who takes him down, considering that's what happens in the games.

Having Leon actually stay unbeatable throughout the entire series would serve no narrative purpose beyond keeping Ash away from the very top, something that the writers already threw away when they let Ash win the Alola league last season.
 
VetProf said:
Ash beating Alain is a safe bet, but I feel like Leon's definitely gonna lose here too. The entire point of Leon as a character is that he's an unbeatable champion who eventually realizes that he's not unbeatable. When a character comes in screaming "HEY EVERYONE I'M THE NUMBER ONE UNBEATABLE CHAMPION" since day one, and the story constantly reminds you of such, I think it's obvious what's gonna happen to that character by the end of the series. And out of all the contestants we have here, it makes the most sense for the player-character parallel to be the one who takes him down, considering that's what happens in the games.

Having Leon actually stay unbeatable throughout the entire series would serve no narrative purpose beyond keeping Ash away from the very top, something that the writers already threw away when they let Ash win the Alola league last season.
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Even if it makes the most narrative sense (besides being more satisfying) to see Leon lose against Ash, I don't think they will let Ash win against him. It's way more about "Ash is not allowed to win" than "Leon is not allowed to loose".

Besides, it's a whole other world of difference between Ash winning Alola and Ash becoming the world's best trainer.

Idk, I feel like he's gonna lose at the end, even if I would prefer otherwise.
 
Ash might lose just because this series is sort of infamous for that, but realistically the confirmation this is loaded with champions makes it hard to see what they could do next time either way. "Ash is best in the world" and "Ash is top 8 in the world" are actually not that far apart in terms of how it should impact the plot of gen 9.

Plus Leon is, as I've noted before, a really terrible choice for undefeated rival because the games absolutely marinate him in themes of passing the torch to a new generation. Pretty much everyone else here is an adult so either Ash or Iris has to beat him for that theme to stick...and I doubt they'll have Iris do it.

Plus, well, SuMo tore the bandage off.

We'll see. I'm uncertain on the issue and day to day my opinion on what will happen shifts.
 
Ash losing to Leon is one thing I wouldn't mind. Its obvious they're going to let Ash reach him, but will the let him defeat the Galar Champion? He's definitely gonna be defeating a Champion here, though who? Part of me is disappointed this was the lineup, because there is part of me that just wanted to see that asshole Khu be wrong about something, but this DOES give us a chance to finally see Ash defeat Alain. Alain is the only trainer here he absolutely needs to fight because he's never had a chance to defeat him. Its not gonna change what happened in Kalos, but just seeing Ash FINALLY defeat Alain and his OP Mega Charizard X would be so satisfying.
 
SkyeMcFlye said:
I'm getting caught up on Pokemon Master Journeys (since becoming a mother I'm slow af at keeping up) and I just wanna say that I'm so effing proud of Iris and how far she's come. Seeing that her Axew evolved into Haxorus almost made me tear up ;_;
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Congrats!

I wonder if Ash really needs to fight Iris? He's already defeated her and I'd rather see Ash fight Cynthia, Alain, and Leon but tbh (though I really don't think this would ever happen) it would be a funny troll move by the writers if Iris defeats Leon, Alain, and Ash to become the strongest trainer in the world.
 
Adelon said:
Congrats!

I wonder if Ash really needs to fight Iris? He's already defeated her and I'd rather see Ash fight Cynthia, Alain, and Leon but tbh (though I really don't think this would ever happen) it would be a funny troll move by the writers if Iris defeats Leon, Alain, and Ash to become the strongest trainer in the world.
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Yeah, I highly doubt Ash will fight her again and I'm fine with that! Alain and Leon might as well be 100% confirmed, though. Then probably Cynthia. Her legacy never dies haha.
 
Adelon said:
Congrats!

I wonder if Ash really needs to fight Iris? He's already defeated her and I'd rather see Ash fight Cynthia, Alain, and Leon but tbh (though I really don't think this would ever happen) it would be a funny troll move by the writers if Iris defeats Leon, Alain, and Ash to become the strongest trainer in the world.
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Given that this is a tournament format, unless its like some round robin deal or something, Ash is going to have to get through 2 trainers to reach Leon, who is the obvious endgame. Of all the trainers, Alain is the one he needs to defeat the most. He's already defeated Iris, and while he has lost to Diantha, Alain is an opponent he's faced 4 times and never got to defeat once. His loss against him infuriated people and while a win won't change the Kalos League finals, it will still be satisfying for many people to see. If there's anyone he truly needs to defeat, its Alain. Champion Cynthia is one I think he'll face because I feel as if there has been build up considering she's always hoped to face Ash and she's interacted with Ash more than anyone besides Iris.
 
I'm not too surprised that the leak turned out to be true. Having pretty much all of the regional Champions from the games and Alain to make up the Master 8 wasn't a huge stretch to begin with. My only issue was how they used artwork from the games to convey the leak as opposed to just typing out their names since that made it more fake to me. The official artwork for the Master 8 is pretty cool though.

Ash vs. Alain is definitely going to happen. Whether or not he'll bring in Greninja for that battle is still up in the air, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. Ash-Greninja finally defeating Mega Charizard X would create so much hype and I think the Internet would break again. Plus, they didn't show the Ash-Greninja form in Greninja's return episode, so there is a possibility that they're saving that for when Ash inevitably battles Alain instead. I'm still less confident about Ash vs. Cynthia, mainly because I still don't see Ash defeating such a huge fan favorite character like Cynthia. Maybe it would be more believable if it took him at least a couple of tries to defeat her, but even that seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm not a fan of Iris being in the Master 8. I know that they're mainly having Champions from the games in there and she is currently the Unova Champion, but it still feels like they forced her into that role just to match with the games instead of feeling like a more natural progression of her character. If I liked Iris or if she was handled better in BW, then it would probably be fine, but as it is, it just feels too undeserved in my opinion. I'm sure that plenty of Iris fans are happy about this and this is nice.

As for Ash vs. Leon, I still could see Ash losing. Leon losing to the player character is pretty important in the games, but at the same time, I don't know if they'd want to make Ash the top ranked trainer in the world. That's a bit of a difference between that and becoming the new Galar Champion. I know that he won the Alola League, so his defeat isn't guaranteed like it used to be, which is still a nice thing, but that was a League set on easy mode as far as I'm concerned. I still wouldn't even call it Ash's biggest accomplishment. Admittedly, I still don't have the highest opinion on the PWC. While it has improved with Ash battling actually noteworthy trainers, the fact that the tournament has been poorly handled pretty much from the start really sours it for me. Regardless of the outcome, I'm sure that they'll figure out something for Ash to do in the next series. Winning the Alola League wasn't brought up for about seventy episodes into Journeys, so I have a feeling that the outcome for the PWC won't be a huge factor as to whatever Ash will be doing in the next series either.

I am curious about how they'll handle the Master 8 battles. Aside from Ash vs. Leon, I highly doubt that we'll see any full battles. Given how fast paced Journeys has been, I think we'll be lucky if Ash's other battles will be three-on-three. A part of me wouldn't be shocked if we just have some one-on-one battles too. I could definitely see Ash vs. Alain being one-on-one since people would only want to see his Mega Charizard X lose for once. I'm also just not sure how long they could stretch the Master 8 battles. I don't think Ash is going to battle all of them, especially when he already defeated Iris, and they probably only have until November to wrap up the series.
 
Hidden Mew said:
Ash vs. Alain is definitely going to happen. Whether or not he'll bring in Greninja for that battle is still up in the air, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. Ash-Greninja finally defeating Mega Charizard X would create so much hype and I think the Internet would break again. Plus, they didn't show the Ash-Greninja form in Greninja's return episode, so there is a possibility that they're saving that for when Ash inevitably battles Alain instead. I'm still less confident about Ash vs. Cynthia, mainly because I still don't see Ash defeating such a huge fan favorite character like Cynthia. Maybe it would be more believable if it took him at least a couple of tries to defeat her, but even that seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm not a fan of Iris being in the Master 8. I know that they're mainly having Champions from the games in there and she is currently the Unova Champion, but it still feels like they forced her into that role just to match with the games instead of feeling like a more natural progression of her character. If I liked Iris or if she was handled better in BW, then it would probably be fine, but as it is, it just feels too undeserved in my opinion. I'm sure that plenty of Iris fans are happy about this and this is nice.
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Why would it matter if Ash beats a "fan favorite" like Cynthia? Ash beating Cynthia is exactly what most people are predicting or want to see, assuming the battle itself is written well. Why would it matter if she's a fan favorite in the fandom making that unlikely for Ash to battle her? It's also been foreshadowed in those ending montages multiple times.
Hidden Mew said:
As for Ash vs. Leon, I still could see Ash losing. Leon losing to the player character is pretty important in the games, but at the same time, I don't know if they'd want to make Ash the top ranked trainer in the world. That's a bit of a difference between that and becoming the new Galar Champion. I know that he won the Alola League, so his defeat isn't guaranteed like it used to be, which is still a nice thing, but that was a League set on easy mode as far as I'm concerned. I still wouldn't even call it Ash's biggest accomplishment. Admittedly, I still don't have the highest opinion on the PWC. While it has improved with Ash battling actually noteworthy trainers, the fact that the tournament has been poorly handled pretty much from the start really sours it for me. Regardless of the outcome, I'm sure that they'll figure out something for Ash to do in the next series. Winning the Alola League wasn't brought up for about seventy episodes into Journeys, so I have a feeling that the outcome for the PWC won't be a huge factor as to whatever Ash will be doing in the next series either.
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He's battled 11 major trainers, while other characters like Iris or whomever battle others off-screen. Obviously as we saw with Flint falling out there tons of Elite 4 Ash never faced but it doesn't matter since there's likely other battles going on while Ash was doing his.
Hidden Mew said:
I am curious about how they'll handle the Master 8 battles. Aside from Ash vs. Leon, I highly doubt that we'll see any full battles. Given how fast paced Journeys has been, I think we'll be lucky if Ash's other battles will be three-on-three. A part of me wouldn't be shocked if we just have some one-on-one battles too. I could definitely see Ash vs. Alain being one-on-one since people would only want to see his Mega Charizard X lose for once. I'm also just not sure how long they could stretch the Master 8 battles. I don't think Ash is going to battle all of them, especially when he already defeated Iris, and they probably only have until November to wrap up the series.
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Leon obviously has to be 6 on 6 so Ash can use his full team. The Cynthia fight will be semi-finals so it will likely be as well. I could see the first fight in the tournament being 3 on 3 though. Also I don't know why you're comparing this to earlier battles, obviously the final tournament will be given more prestige with longer battles the same way all the previous final battles in leagues do.

I have no idea why anyone wouldn't expect full battles for at least the semi-final and Leon fight. All they need are 2 eps for each.
 
6 or 7 episodes is fairly normal for a league and would be enough for all of Ash's matches to be full battles, though that's not a guarantee.
Leon is pretty much certain to be one, though I'm less certain about the semifinals since battle size sharply declined in Sun/Moon and Journeys.
 
Daren said:
6 or 7 episodes is fairly normal for a league and would be enough for all of Ash's matches to be full battles, though that's not a guarantee.
Leon is pretty much certain to be one, though I'm less certain about the semifinals since battle size sharply declined in Sun/Moon and Journeys.
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After the Alola league was 16 episodes they can do something similar here.
 
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