Anime & Manga General Discussion

[Nicolas721]

I can see three options for Chloe's final career choice:

• Contests: Would be repetitive but it's the only one that has received some buildup.
• Connoisseur: If the writers do an extensive check of possible careers they could stumble upon this one and consider it, as it's a very neutral (as in, doesn't lean solely to battling or catching) career that focuses on what the series likes best and what Chloe herself saw during her eeveelution quest: Pokemon & people relationships. Also, it could be a reason for Cilan to appear.
• None/All: The most disappointing one if you ask me, as it would make her arc extremely redundant, she already learnt she could take her time deciding back on JN011, but after Lana's line in the Alola episode it seems very likely. Chloe saying she wants to keep trying all professions forever would be sightly better but it would still be a cop out.

 

[Alola]

Spoiler: Our Champion Queens

 

[JinksChow]

Not super relevant to the discussion at hand, but I want to point out that Misty's "Water Pokemon Master" goal only existed in the dub prior to the Orange Islands arc. For over 90 episodes, she really didn't have a stated goal (other than shaking Ash down for a new bike).

Information courtesy of @Dogasu.

I thought that in EP007, Misty's sisters pointed out that she once said she would not return home until she became a great Pokemon Trainer, and this line was also in the original version. While not directly stated by Misty herself, this did seem to the first instance of Misty's goal being referenced to in the anime, albeit being slightly different from her later goal of becoming a Water Pokemon Master.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Spoiler: Our Champion Queens

View attachment 161034

For all the flaws in Iris’ progression, I can’t deny that JN has succeeded in making her endearing to me. Something BW failed miserably at.

 

[Sai]

I love every scene with Iris in Journey's. I never disliked her in BW but I was mostly indifferent to her outside her focus episodes. If Iris' personality was like in BW like it is in Journey's, she would have been one of my favorites.

It's hard to describe what changed about her personality wise, but she seems a lot more fun and energetic. Even when she repeated the catch phrase to Ash in her first return it felt more playful. Almost makes me sad she didn't show up more.

 

[Emmy]

Apropos of nothing, I’ve been rewatching the old episodes and hot damn, it took me 25 years but I finally realised the reason for the funky lyrics in the TRio motto is because they’ve been saying it wrong this whole time.



Also it being apparently official has me wondering if Giovanni is a secret dork to have his minions learn such a silly introduction monologue.

 

[Daren]

Dogasu translated this interview with Alain's voice actor:

Nico Nico News: Kensho Ono Interview

I can't help but laugh at this part though:

In the Kalos League finals, Satoshi's Gekkouga and Alan's Lizardon went up against each other in one of the most outstanding battles in the history of the Pocket Monsters animated series, one that people are still talking about even now.

Emphasis mine.
Well, yes. That's factually true.

 

[FluffleFi]

Do people over in Japan hold that battle-and Alain for that matter-in the same regard as people here in the west do?

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Dogasu translated this interview with Alain's voice actor:

Nico Nico News: Kensho Ono Interview

I can't help but laugh at this part though:

Emphasis mine.
Well, yes. That's factually true.

Gee, I wonder why…

Do people over in Japan hold that battle-and Alain for that matter-in the same regard as people here in the west do?

I think it’s worse over there tbh but I don’t really know

 

[Hidden Mew]

Dogasu translated this interview with Alain's voice actor:

Nico Nico News: Kensho Ono Interview

I can't help but laugh at this part though:

Emphasis mine.
Well, yes. That's factually true.

It's true, but probably not for the reasons they wanted or expected when the battle first premiered.

Do people over in Japan hold that battle-and Alain for that matter-in the same regard as people here in the west do?

I'm not sure myself. I'm positive that the majority of the initial backlash to the battle was from the western fanbase. I do remember that they disabled likes and comments on the official YouTube channel showing the next episode previews shortly after that battle, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting complaints from fans all over the world if they felt the need to do that.

 

[Daren]

I'm positive that the majority of the initial backlash to the battle was from the western fanbase.

I'm not so sure about that; I recall seeing a lot of anger on Japanese sites right after, I believe I read that Alain became a pariah on the Japanese chans, and some of the staff responding to it seems to point to it being a major issue there, too.
Edit: I have seen a few occasions where English and Japanese fandoms diverge strongly on reaction to something, but it seems more common for people to assume it's different but turns out to be pretty much the same. I remember when we got the first reboot film it was said for a while that the Japanese fandom didn't care that Brock and Misty were missing until someone translated some comments and it turned out they were complaining too.
That said I am familiar with one or two major divergences across the seas, but they aren't Pokémon related.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Dogasu translated this interview with Alain's voice actor:

Nico Nico News: Kensho Ono Interview

I can't help but laugh at this part though:

Emphasis mine.
Well, yes. That's factually true.

Hearing how excited he was to be taking part in the Masters Tournament made me sad considering how pathetically Alain was treated. It seems like he considered Alain to have left XY on a high note, and now his reputation is permanently soiled. On the other hand, I forgot about him being married to Koharu's VA, so maybe that increases the character's chances of sticking around for a while since availability seems not to be an issue.

Speaking of which, why couldn't Koharu watch the tournament with Gou? For someone who's story arc revolves around trying many new things, she's really avoided battles like the plague. Scratch that, she's not allowed to leave the house unless an Eeveelution is involved.

 

[FluffleFi]

Between Tobias, Cameron and Alain I find it a little funny that three of the most controversial battles in the anime just so happen to be the last league battles of their respective series. Considering the status quo the series was still in at those points many likely assumed Ash would lose in the end, but still how does it happen three times in a row? You don't really hear people talking about the battles from Kanto-to-Hoenn, just these three. Probably because Tobias was just a walking deus ex machina that came after one of the battles that people often consider one of the best in the series, Cameron's just a god damn idiot that brought five pokemon to a six-on-six battle and the battle between Ash and Alain was hyped to hell.

 

[Daren]

Between Tobias, Cameron and Alain I find it a little funny that three of the most controversial battles in the anime just so happen to be the last league battles of their respective series. Considering the status quo the series was still in at those points many likely assumed Ash would lose in the end, but still how does it happen three times in a row? You don't really hear people talking about the battles from Kanto-to-Hoenn, just these three. Probably because Tobias was just a walking deus ex machina that came after one of the battles that people often consider one of the best in the series, Cameron's just a god damn idiot that brought five pokemon to a six-on-six battle and the battle between Ash and Alain was hyped to hell.

I believe there was controversy about Hoenn at the time (I was very annoyed about it, I remember), but:
*Ash went on to win the Battle Forntier in that same series, while none of the following ones had a BF or Orange League equivalent for Ash to win after as a way of showing concrete progress.
*The later ones were all so controversial they overshadowed it. You stop complaining about the loud fly in your house after a raccoon gets in, too.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Hearing how excited he was to be taking part in the Masters Tournament made me sad considering how pathetically Alain was treated. It seems like he considered Alain to have left XY on a high note, and now his reputation is permanently soiled. On the other hand, I forgot about him being married to Koharu's VA, so maybe that increases the character's chances of sticking around for a while since availability seems not to be an issue.

I didn't know that they were married. That would make it easier for Alain to show up again. It would be weird if he just left after losing since he has a connection to both Ash and Steven. Wanting to see their battle and talk with Ash in-between the rest of the battles sounds reasonable, but since Alain was seemingly brought back just to hype up Leon, that still might not happen. I'm still baffled at their decision to use Alain like this. The reactions towards the battle, at least from what I've seen, have been less "Wow, Leon is super strong" and more like "Wow, Alain was nerfed super hard to make Leon look good" If that's what they wanted to do, they could have easily included Raihan in the Master Class instead. Saving Alain as a surprise for the Master Class also still feels so weird if they weren't going to have him battle against Ash.

Speaking of which, why couldn't Koharu watch the tournament with Gou? For someone who's story arc revolves around trying many new things, she's really avoided battles like the plague. Scratch that, she's not allowed to leave the house unless an Eeveelution is involved.

It is strange that Chloe didn't want to go cheer on Ash in person. She doesn't have the strongest connection with him, but wanting to support him during this tournament still would have been a nice gesture and allowed her to see more battles in general. As much as she says that she wants to find different paths to take with Eevee, I suspect none of them will involve battles.

I'm still reminded of Ash and Goh going out on adventures while Chloe stays behind in the lab with Eevee in the opening. It's such a sadly fitting way to describe how Journeys treat female characters.

Between Tobias, Cameron and Alain I find it a little funny that three of the most controversial battles in the anime just so happen to be the last league battles of their respective series. Considering the status quo the series was still in at those points many likely assumed Ash would lose in the end, but still how does it happen three times in a row? You don't really hear people talking about the battles from Kanto-to-Hoenn, just these three. Probably because Tobias was just a walking deus ex machina that came after one of the battles that people often consider one of the best in the series, Cameron's just a god damn idiot that brought five pokemon to a six-on-six battle and the battle between Ash and Alain was hyped to hell.

People used to complain a bit about Ash using Pokemon against Ritchie after he was chased around by Team Rocket and I think that there were some complaints about Pikachu losing to a Meowth in the Hoenn League, but in general, I think it helped that Ash still got some major victories in those respective series. People claimed that the Orange Islands didn't count, but he still defeated a top trainer in his first full battle. Ash defeated the Battle Frontier, which I still think is his most impressive accomplishment thus far. People were still upset that he lost Leagues, but I think having some victories afterwards helped, even if it felt like fans ignored those as the years went on. The Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos League defeats probably would have been infamous regardless, but not having a major victory within those series probably didn't help matters either.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Between Tobias, Cameron and Alain I find it a little funny that three of the most controversial battles in the anime just so happen to be the last league battles of their respective series. Considering the status quo the series was still in at those points many likely assumed Ash would lose in the end, but still how does it happen three times in a row? You don't really hear people talking about the battles from Kanto-to-Hoenn, just these three. Probably because Tobias was just a walking deus ex machina that came after one of the battles that people often consider one of the best in the series, Cameron's just a god damn idiot that brought five pokemon to a six-on-six battle and the battle between Ash and Alain was hyped to hell.

I'd also add that Ash's losses felt pretty reasonable prior to DP, either due to inexperience or using an underpowered team. Starting in DP, Ash has realistically been good enough to win every league. His losses (and the characters who delivered them) began to feel a lot more contrived, as if the universe itself was impeding him, rather than any failing on his own part.

 

[Daren]

The reactions towards the battle, at least from what I've seen, have been less "Wow, Leon is super strong" and more like "Wow, Alain was nerfed super hard to make Leon look good"

Honestly, this is one of those recurring things I see writers keep doing and audiences keep seeing right through it, knowing either the antagonist will suddenly seem a lot weaker when he fights the protagonist or some sort of plot device will save the day.
I can't believe any of Ash's Pokémon could possibly bring down someone that crushed Alain so easily after his crazy showing in XY, so either Leon will be weaker when they battle, Ash has gotten insanely stronger and was fighting a bunch of ludicrously stronger trainer for most of the PWC, we have to believe Alain is significantly weaker than he was in Kalos, or we'll get a second variant of the Drake match where Charizard takes down at least half of Ash's team (and the rest of Leon's party look weak).

 

[Chilon]

I dont want to see a WEAK team with one big and god boy. It's clear that not all of them are on the same level as Charizard but I don't want Leon's Pokemon to be that weak since it's still the champ and because it doesn't make any sense to me if one Pokemon is being hyped up and the others only are there to be gone again

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I think the writers did their best with what they were given for this battle.

 

[Chilon]

Nah, I could have stood watching Leon's third Pokemon. But honestly i am very exited that Alain uses Malamar and Chesnaught