• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Anime & Manga General Discussion

Your right, but is it cool? Its a little shine up for Malamar and Chesnaught what i personally not dislike but is much to short. In a 23 Trainer Turnement its a must have but not in a Master 8 Battle with two Champs that know there stuff. But looking negatively into the past is called complaining and looking positively into the future is called looking forward to something! That is clear.
 
I'm not sure why people got so upset about Leon and Alain's battle only after the episode aired. We knew it was going to be a short/rushed battle going in since 116's real title was revealed.
While that's true, that doesn't really make it necessarily good or acceptable. The fact that they chose to rush through the battle when seemingly the other matches are going to get a full episode in itself is a bad sign. Admittedly, given how pacing is easily the biggest problem I have with Journeys, I wouldn't be shocked if the other matches, or at least some of them, end up being rushed too, but I think it's a bad or at least questionable way to start off this tournament.

Not to mention it still make their decision to bring back Alain for first round fodder for Leon so strange. If they really just wanted someone powerful for Leon to crush in a short/rushed battle, why not use Raihan or even Alder? I never cared for BW Alder, but it could have potentially been a way to further explain how Iris became the Champion. People also would have been less upset about bringing in Alder as first round fodder than they would be about Alain, especially when no one would care about Ash not getting a chance to battle Alder in the tournament like they do with Alain.
 
Honestly, this is one of those recurring things I see writers keep doing and audiences keep seeing right through it, knowing either the antagonist will suddenly seem a lot weaker when he fights the protagonist or some sort of plot device will save the day.
I can't believe any of Ash's Pokémon could possibly bring down someone that crushed Alain so easily after his crazy showing in XY, so either Leon will be weaker when they battle, Ash has gotten insanely stronger and was fighting a bunch of ludicrously stronger trainer for most of the PWC, we have to believe Alain is significantly weaker than he was in Kalos, or we'll get a second variant of the Drake match where Charizard takes down at least half of Ash's team (and the rest of Leon's party look weak).
Another thing that would make Ash defeating Leon even more egregious is that the very same Greninja that lost to Alain's Charizard was shown as being more powerful and more in control than Ash's Lucario, who has been gradually pushed as the ace of the Journeys team. And if Greninja is just that much better than Lucario, who in turn was still shown to be not as strong as Alain's Charizard, who in turn got absolutely decimated by Leon's despite the latter not using a poweup... well, it's just going to be rather unbelievable for the Journeys team to win, to say the least. It raises a lot of questions: it could very well be an "apprentice surpassed the master" situation between Greninja and Lucario, but it feels way too fast if so for Lucario to go from being unable to touch Greninja to being able to go toe to toe with the very same opponent that decimated a foe Greninja was unable to measure up to; it could also be that Greninja has simply gotten that much stronger and could in fact beat Alain's Charizard now, but seeing how all he's been doing all this time is cutting some rogue vines it seems... rather silly, to say the least. If cutting vines can give someone that much of a power boost, then why doesn't Ash just train with those things with every team from now on?

I think it was rushed writing that was the problem: if Alain had put up a better fight against Leon than he did (at the bare minumum make him lose 2-3 instead of 1-3), then the effect the writers were going for would've worked better.

I also think the last option (making Leon's Charizard take down a huge chunk of Ash's team by himself ala Drake's Dragonite) is probably the best one by far, even though it'll come at the cost of the rest of Leon's team going down: Leon's Charizard being gradually worn down by teamwork is probably the most believable way for it to lose at this point. So I really hope that's the one the writers go for.

I'm not sure why people got so upset about Leon and Alain's battle only after the episode aired. We knew it was going to be a short/rushed battle going in since 116's real title was revealed.
I dunno about you, but I did see quite a lot of people dreading this episode precisely for this reason. Besides, I don't think that being angry at how this battle was done is unreasonable, since they could have at the very least let Alain defeat another one of Leon's Pokemon. I think that alone would've made the battle at least a bit less controversial.
 
While that's true, that doesn't really make it necessarily good or acceptable. The fact that they chose to rush through the battle when seemingly the other matches are going to get a full episode in itself is a bad sign. Admittedly, given how pacing is easily the biggest problem I have with Journeys, I wouldn't be shocked if the other matches, or at least some of them, end up being rushed too, but I think it's a bad or at least questionable way to start off this tournament.

Not to mention it still make their decision to bring back Alain for first round fodder for Leon so strange. If they really just wanted someone powerful for Leon to crush in a short/rushed battle, why not use Raihan or even Alder? I never cared for BW Alder, but it could have potentially been a way to further explain how Iris became the Champion. People also would have been less upset about bringing in Alder as first round fodder than they would be about Alain, especially when no one would care about Ash not getting a chance to battle Alder in the tournament like they do with Alain.
You missed my point. My confusion is with people who presumably follow the news (previews, summaries, titles, etc) getting outraged only after seeing the episode when it was pretty clear what we were going to get.

In fact, I'm glad there was finally an episode of JN that people pretty universally think sucked (welcome aboard).
 
Last edited:
You missed my point. My confusion is with people who presumably follow the news (previews, summaries, titles, etc) getting outraged only after seeing the episode when it was pretty clear what we were going to get.

In fact, I'm glad there was finally an episode of JN that people universally think sucked (welcome aboard).
Eh, I could have seen them heavily abridging the battle, showing the first two matchups in montage form, and then concluding with a solid Charizard duel. Showing half of a good battle would have been preferable to showing an entire bad one.

Anyway, I definitely saw people criticizing the apparent brevity of the match prior to it's airing, but I saw just as many people who were hopeful the battle would be split up and concluded in the next episode (despite not buying that myself).
 
The expectation should have been anybody battling Leon before Ash wouldn't get a particularly good showing. All I'm saying is Friday's airing was way past the point to get upset.
 
Between Tobias, Cameron and Alain I find it a little funny that three of the most controversial battles in the anime just so happen to be the last league battles of their respective series. Considering the status quo the series was still in at those points many likely assumed Ash would lose in the end, but still how does it happen three times in a row? You don't really hear people talking about the battles from Kanto-to-Hoenn, just these three. Probably because Tobias was just a walking deus ex machina that came after one of the battles that people often consider one of the best in the series, Cameron's just a god damn idiot that brought five pokemon to a six-on-six battle and the battle between Ash and Alain was hyped to hell.
The only one that really bothered me was Alain. I was ok with Tobias because there where no hints that Ash would win Sinnoh and Ash did awesome against two legendaries (also Tobias having a Darkrai and a Latios plus the fandom reaction is funny). We knew Ash would lose the Unova League but the problem is he lost to Cameron. Not too bothered on the loss because Ash was inevitably going to lose but he shouldn’t have lost against Cameron. Now Alain. Ash shouldn’t have lost to him. The Kalos League was the most hyped up league ever, had the most hints and declarations from Ash himself since even the end of BW that he was going to win, and most people thought that Ash winning was 100% confirmed. Plus XY was more mature and felt like a finale, especially with Ash-Greninja being a thing and Ash having a love interest for the first time ever it really felt like endgame for Ash BUT NOPE HE LOSES THE LEAGUE WITH A TEAM HE SHOULD OF EASILY WON IT. Pikachu and Ash-Greninja should be able to each take down two Pokemon per match at a minimum, and the only one who pulled on its weight during the whole league was Pikachu. The Kalos members (yes, even Greninja) did awful from what we saw.
 
Pikachu and Ash-Greninja should be able to each take down two Pokemon per match at a minimum, and the only one who pulled on its weight during the whole league was Pikachu. The Kalos members (yes, even Greninja) did awful from what we saw.
Not this again....Please. Seriously, Greninja did manage to take down Bisharp, Talonflame tied with Unfeazant but its still something, and Hawlucha pulled off the win against Weavile. It wasn't all just Pikachu. This battle did not end the way it should have, but most of Ash's team did pretty well in this battle.
 
Last edited:
The only one that really bothered me was Alain. I was ok with Tobias because there where no hints that Ash would win Sinnoh and Ash did awesome against two legendaries (also Tobias having a Darkrai and a Latios plus the fandom reaction is funny). We knew Ash would lose the Unova League but the problem is he lost to Cameron. Not too bothered on the loss because Ash was inevitably going to lose but he shouldn’t have lost against Cameron. Now Alain. Ash shouldn’t have lost to him. The Kalos League was the most hyped up league ever, had the most hints and declarations from Ash himself since even the end of BW that he was going to win, and most people thought that Ash winning was 100% confirmed. Plus XY was more mature and felt like a finale, especially with Ash-Greninja being a thing and Ash having a love interest for the first time ever it really felt like endgame for Ash BUT NOPE HE LOSES THE LEAGUE WITH A TEAM HE SHOULD OF EASILY WON IT. Pikachu and Ash-Greninja should be able to each take down two Pokemon per match at a minimum, and the only one who pulled on its weight during the whole league was Pikachu. The Kalos members (yes, even Greninja) did awful from what we saw.
Not 100% agree with the last part, but aure the rest of the team were not as powerful as them, with Ash making his connection with Gninja as the main focus of the Kalos journey. But nowdays we got Ash making at least one good progress with Gengar while the focus of training was Lucario.
 
I’ve come to the conclusion that Noivern and Goodra performed rather well in the league.

From a writing standpoint, yes, it was atrocious. One hadn’t battled in ages and got hyped up, while the other had yet to show any value to the team. Narratively, it was bad.

But Noivern managed to force a draw against a pseudo legendary stacked with SE moves against him and who was battling before he even hatched. He then held his own for quite a while against a pokemon it was at a supreme disadvantage against and lost because of Ash’s poor judgement, not because he was weak.

Meanwhile, Goodra forced a draw with a fairy type it could barely attack directly, and then was faced with a speedy physical attacker it had no good moves or plan against, and who had an insta kill button on standby. Again, Goodra was just about the absolute worst pokemon in Ash’s party to face Bisharp.

All in all, in-universe, I’d say they did the best with what they were handed. Sadly, it wasn’t quite what we wanted.
 
I’ve come to the conclusion that Noivern and Goodra performed rather well in the league.

From a writing standpoint, yes, it was atrocious. One hadn’t battled in ages and got hyped up, while the other had yet to show any value to the team. Narratively, it was bad.

But Noivern managed to force a draw against a pseudo legendary stacked with SE moves against him and who was battling before he even hatched. He then held his own for quite a while against a pokemon it was at a supreme disadvantage against and lost because of Ash’s poor judgement, not because he was weak.

Meanwhile, Goodra forced a draw with a fairy type it could barely attack directly, and then was faced with a speedy physical attacker it had no good moves or plan against, and who had an insta kill button on standby. Again, Goodra was just about the absolute worst pokemon in Ash’s party to face Bisharp.

All in all, in-universe, I’d say they did the best with what they were handed. Sadly, it wasn’t quite what we wanted.
Then again WHY THE FUCK did Ash send in Noivern against Weavile and Goodra against Bisharp? That’s why he lost the match. Pure stupidity.
 
Then again WHY THE FUCK did Ash send in Noivern against Weavile and Goodra against Bisharp? That’s why he lost the match. Pure stupidity.
Strongly disagree. The reason he lost was probably production/executive meddling. Logically he should have won. Those two choices were questionable, but its not why. He was playing strong most of the match, so I don't understand why you feel the need to drag Ash and Greninja under the bus for this battle.
 
The series would be much longer when Ash has win against alain because he must fight Diantha, there was the option that Ash would have won but here it would not have been so easy to continue the series.
They could have cut the Greninja release and that boring Legend of XYZ special to give Ash time to face an E4 member and lose to them, thus showing he still has more to learn.
 
I'm really bothered by the amount of Galar Pokemon that have debuted in this series and they either end up being in the background in their debut (like Hattrem in the latest episode) or they're only on screen for like 10 seconds (like Galarian Corsola in episode 92; I think that's the episode). Can this be considered proof that the writers don't like Galar and its Pokemon?
 
I'm really bothered by the amount of Galar Pokemon that have debuted in this series and they either end up being in the background in their debut (like Hattrem in the latest episode) or they're only on screen for like 10 seconds (like Galarian Corsola in episode 92; I think that's the episode). Can this be considered proof that the writers don't like Galar and its Pokemon?
I don't think that counts as proof that they don't like Galar and its Pokemon. That's more of an assumption rather than proof or evidence. We can't know how the production team actually feels about any generation unless someone just comes out and say it. It is still disappointing that so many new Pokemon don't get attention. There was never even an attempt at making a balance between old and new Pokemon and characters in Journeys, which is such a shame.

I also just finished watching Ash vs. Volkner. Needless to say, it was a great battle and the perfect example as to what the PWC should have been from the start. A three-on-three battle format, giving both sides a chance to show off their skills, making use of the world tour gimmick by featuring an established trainer like Volkner and matching up trainers ahead of their match should have been standard. It reminded me a lot about how I felt after Ash vs. Korrina. If that was typical of how PWC matches go instead of the first really good battle in ages, I'd probably be more into this tournament, or at least be able to understand more as to why people put it on such a huge pedestal. Ash vs. Volkner is simultaneously really good and yet frustrating in the sense that it makes the first half of the PWC look even worse to me, which is almost impressive considering how I already hated how they handled the first two classes.
 
I don't think that counts as proof that they don't like Galar and its Pokemon. That's more of an assumption rather than proof or evidence. We can't know how the production team actually feels about any generation unless someone just comes out and say it. It is still disappointing that so many new Pokemon don't get attention. There was never even an attempt at making a balance between old and new Pokemon and characters in Journeys, which is such a shame.

I also just finished watching Ash vs. Volkner. Needless to say, it was a great battle and the perfect example as to what the PWC should have been from the start. A three-on-three battle format, giving both sides a chance to show off their skills, making use of the world tour gimmick by featuring an established trainer like Volkner and matching up trainers ahead of their match should have been standard. It reminded me a lot about how I felt after Ash vs. Korrina. If that was typical of how PWC matches go instead of the first really good battle in ages, I'd probably be more into this tournament, or at least be able to understand more as to why people put it on such a huge pedestal. Ash vs. Volkner is simultaneously really good and yet frustrating in the sense that it makes the first half of the PWC look even worse to me, which is almost impressive considering how I already hated how they handled the first two classes.
Actually thats not needless to say. It is a great point. Ash vs Volkner is one of the few rememberable for how good and intense them battles were. I would say if Round 1 againat steven will be any less it will be a big disapointment they rush things up at the m8.
 
I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.
 
I still have issues with Ash vs. Volkner. Gengar was fun to watch, but I just don't like how Lucario's battles went. The absurd amount of damage he took while dealing one shots practically bugs me. There was no real counters or anything going on. It was just Lucario taking ridiculous amounts of damage while his opponent deflected most of his attacks until Lucario gets a lucky one shot. I hate battles that are like that. Then there was Pikachu winning by using the Pika Z-Move on Electivire, which had an ability that made it immune to Electric type attacks.
Really, Pikachu should have been given the win against Luxray instead. Settling a score with the same opponent who defeated him in the gym battle would have been much more satisfactory than fudging out some stupidly written win against an Electivire he's already beaten once. I've called out Journeys for being driven more by flashy spectacles than cohesive storytelling (like XY before it) and this is a leading example of that flaw.
 
Back
Top Bottom