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Anime & Manga General Discussion

I only remember Ash, Brock, and Misty being sent to the Orange Islands by Professor Oak to retrieve the GS ball from Professor Ivy.

But they needed a way to get to the Valancia Island/the Orange Islands (professor Oak didn't provide any means to get there). Ash was planning on walking (how this would work with the ocean I don't know). Brock made the remark it would only take a day to get to Valencia Island by blimp, but they hadn't spare money to afford it. But the store Ash went shopping in just happened to keep a tombola. With the grand price being a free blimp ride to Valancia Island.

Ash won the blimp ride, which happened to be with Giovanni's blimp and TRio who be just transfered to this blimp to pilote it. And in the end they crashlanded on valencia Island, kicking of the Adventures on the Orange Islands.
 
Honestly, I felt as if since Ash didn't really have anyone to challenge him as a person, it was hard to gauge whether or not he's "mature", especially more so than other series. I bring up Sinnoh Ash a lot, but this is mainly because he was in a CONSTANT state of being challenged, by himself, his rival, his ideals, his friends, etc. He was looked up to and admired at times by other characters as well, but it wasn't 24/7 like XY Ash. His relationship with his pokemon is amazingly shown here and Ash isn't unnecessarily serious. Like you said, seriousness is not one of Ash's defining traits.
Annnnnnd this is why I still have DP Ash as my fav version of him up to this day: He's still the Ash we know, but more mature and being challenged in both battle-wise and even as his morals, the two cases being more proemminent with Paul, but he still kept his fun and gooy side, and I never truly fet like they hindered each other or anything like that.

I don't really enjoy neither XY or BW Ash tbh for the same reason: They both took extremes, but in opposite directions:

BW really overplayed his childish side and just crancked it up to 15, and he was not anywhere near as an competent battler as he was in DP, with the battles with Elesa, Roxie and Cameron as the biggest examples.

But XY did the opposite, and made him too serious, since they fell into the old writing trap of ''maturity=seriousness 100% of the time" and while an way better battler than his BW incarnation, he got so devoid of emotion 90% of the time he jst felt generic and didn't felt like Ash.
 
AG was my favourite version of Ash, which doesn't seem to be a common opinion. They managed to really sell him to me as an experienced trainer handicapped by his decision to try a fresh start which synced well with the Battle Frontier arc where he went all-out against some top tier trainers (though that arc had issues).
 
AG was my favourite version of Ash, which doesn't seem to be a common opinion. They managed to really sell him to me as an experienced trainer handicapped by his decision to try a fresh start which synced well with the Battle Frontier arc where he went all-out against some top tier trainers (though that arc had issues).
Actually, I'm pretty sure a lot of people liked AG Ash as well, mostly because of the character development he went through from Hoenn leading to Sinnoh.
 
Quite honestly, I feel as if, despite the anime being based off of the games, people focus on battling way too much-especially when it comes to characters. I mostly came to this conclusion after seeing how and why people prefer certain pokemon over others and it just mildly irritates me when the only thing discussed about the pokemon is their battling ability. A prime example is Ash-Greninja and Pikachu(...dear god, I'm getting repetitive :LOL: ). Greninja is LITERALLY only liked because of Ash-Greninja(no, I'm not counting those who just like Greninja as a species, I'm specifically referring to Ash's) and it lost most of it's personality when it evolved to showcase it's power. I really liked Greninja in it's pre-evolution forms. It was kinda dull as a Frogadier too, but it still mostly kept its personality. Pikachu is the one who is LITERALLY ONLY judged for his battling abilities. I'm not going to repeat myself since I've talked about Pikachu getting ignored several hundred times already by the fandom, but it's just...guys, Charizard wasn't the only pokemon from Kanto that got development over a long period of time, you know.

The same thing applies with Ash-XY is SO battle focused-more so than any other series, in my opinion, and as such, people like XY Ash more I guess. Sinnoh for mostly the same reason(though I liked his character in Sinnoh...he felt weirdly childish in an appealing kind of way, and more mature than XY...okay I'll stop here before I start hating one of my favorite series...)and thus the reason why when people imagine what they would do when re-writing the anime, the first thing they thing of is "make OS Ash more competent" and "have Ash actually win his gym battles" :cautious:. I'm not even going to explain why I dislike this thought process so much, so I'll just move on.

AG Ash is a unique case, I feel, because he was basically a prime example of what the writers of the current series are doing wrong, or rather Shoji Yonemura. AG Ash was the aftermath of OS Ash's completed character development arc(you can hardly call the person from the first episode the same as the one from Hoenn Alone or Gotta Catch Ya Later) and it was that transition to his best(still needing development) during Sinnoh. So, what do you get? You get an example of real-life growth: just because you grow in one area, doesn't mean problems will arise from it as a counterbalance, nor does it mean you can stop growing. AG is definitely more competent than before, but if I remember correctly, his prime flaw was that he had a major ego and had difficulty excepting help from others-leading to yet another set of character development that showed its fruits of labor in Sinnoh. So, I think I can understand why you love AG Ash-again, arguably the best example of proper character development for Ash-and why others like him but don't consider him as a favorite(he was still in developing stage). Then BW-onward threw everything out the window.
 
Also, there is really no need to focus so much on semantics. I explained what I meant by both terms.
I just chose to point that out because I misunderstood what the post meant. My replies might have been different if I knew it from the get go. It wasn’t meant to be in bad faith so I apologise if it came across that way. I put in lines about that in my post just to clarify that I had to change in directions twice or thrice so as to guess what you meant by those words, just so something like that could be avoided next time and users could have an easier time understanding the arguments.
 
What do all of these Pokemon have in common?View attachment 143279
They're all round, they're all starters, they're all in their basic stages, and depending on who you ask they're all annoying (in my personal case, only two really bother me: I like Piplup well enough and am completely indifferent to Chespin)

...and none are Fire-types.
They're all comic relief Pokémon. And I find them all varying levels of annoying.
AG was my favourite version of Ash, which doesn't seem to be a common opinion. They managed to really sell him to me as an experienced trainer handicapped by his decision to try a fresh start which synced well with the Battle Frontier arc where he went all-out against some top tier trainers (though that arc had issues).
AG Ash's problem was that he was reluctant to accept advice from others. His experience was getting to his head. Over the course of the series, he learned out of this trait, so that DP Ash could be more open to accepting advice and help from others, taking influence from Dawn and Paul's strategies.
 
They're all comic relief Pokémon. And I find them all varying levels of annoying.
Personally, I find Piplup and Rowlett to be the best ones on the list. Piplup and Rowlett share a few things in common, despite also serving as a comic relief from time to time, those being: a unique personality, great dynamics with other characters and pokemon, and an essential/important member of the cast or team. Chespin and Oshawott were just knock-offs of Piplup, in all honesty.
 
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Personally, I find Piplup and Rowlett to be the best ones on the last. Piplup and Rowlett share a few things in common, despite also serving as a comic relief from time to time, those being: a unique personality, great dynamics with other characters and pokemon, and an essential/important member of the cast or team. Chespin and Oshawott were just knock-offs of Piplup, in all honesty.
I haven't watched DP in a while, but I dare say that Piplup and Chespin are the less annoying ones, while Oshawott and Rowlet are very annoying to me.
 
Pikachu is the one who is LITERALLY ONLY judged for his battling abilities. I'm not going to repeat myself since I've talked about Pikachu getting ignored several hundred times already by the fandom, but it's just...guys, Charizard wasn't the only pokemon from Kanto that got development over a long period of time, you know.
Unfortunately, I felt at some parts that the writers don't really want Pikachu (or Ash, to be honest) around but they have to keep him and are obligated to throw him a few token wins.
For instance, beating Tyranitar and Metagross in the same battle is probably his most impressive battling moment, but the narrative focus of that battle was Greninja losing to Zard X, so it was sort of ignored.

I honestly think that compared to a lot of other 'mon his best moments mostly aren't even battle ones, though, like his Looney Tunes-esque method of saving the day in The Punchy Pokémon or the understated but unusually consistent development after Bound for Trouble where he distrusts Meowth when they get stuck together but is a lot nicer and more patient with him.
 
I haven't watched DP in a while, but I dare say that Piplup and Chespin are amongst the less annoying ones, while Oshawott and Rowlet are very annoying to me.
Hm, fair enough. The main reason why I like Piplup, in all honesty, was not just because of the reasons I listed, but also because of his relationship with Pikachu, which, like Dawn and Ash, felt like a Best Friends sort of relationship and I really liked that a lot. You already explained your major distaste of Rowlet previous before in another thread, so I won't even go there. :LOL:
 
Unfortunately, I felt at some parts that the writers don't really want Pikachu (or Ash, to be honest) around but they have to keep him and are obligated to throw him a few token wins.
For instance, beating Tyranitar and Metagross in the same battle is probably his most impressive battling moment, but the narrative focus of that battle was Greninja losing to Zard X, so it was sort of ignored.
Pikachu’s battles are a lose-lose situation, honestly. No matter how powerful the opponent, people will give him crap if he loses, but whenever he makes a spectacular performance people don’t credit it much because he’s supposed to be Ash’s ace and therefore it was expected.

And people still haven’t gotten over the Snivy fiasco.
 
Pikachu’s battles are a lose-lose situation, honestly. No matter how powerful the opponent, people will give him crap if he loses, but whenever he makes a spectacular performance people don’t credit it much because he’s supposed to be Ash’s ace and therefore it was expected.

And people still haven’t gotten over the Snivy fiasco.
And if he gives TOO spectacular of a performance, it's done badly and/or it isn't given any credit...seriously, you have people still talking about Misty's development in OS and Pikachu STILL isn't brought up-:bulbaFacepalm::bulbaFacepalm::bulbaFacepalm:
 
It definitely stings, but I hate when people use it to bash Pikachu's performance outside of BW.
Actually, Pikachu won a crap ton of battles in BW as well. And bashing Pikachu's entire overall performance because he lost to an OP Snivy that had no business being as OP as it was and was arguably more inconsistent than Pikachu while belonging to one of the most terribly done rivals Ash has ever had in the entire history of the anime is ridiculous. Especially considering how Pikachu's moves were draining him, he didn't actually get knocked out, Ash wasn't focused on the battle and was more focused on why Pikachu's moves weren't working(a reason why he kept ordering Pikachu to use electric moves and didn't just move on and unquestionably stick to non-electric moves like people suggested-sure, it's kinda smart, but it's Ash-his pokemon comes first), and again-Trip's Snivy was OP as hell.
 
They're all round, they're all starters, they're all in their basic stages, and depending on who you ask they're all annoying (in my personal case, only two really bother me: I like Piplup well enough and am completely indifferent to Chespin)

...and none are Fire-types.
It's actually quite bizarre that we haven't gotten a cutesy unevolved Fire Type Gagmon Starter yet?

When Journeys first aired I thought for sure Scorbunny would be our first considering it had a very similar personality as Piplup, Oshawott, and Chespin early on. But then JN17 happened....

They're all comic relief Pokémon. And I find them all varying levels of annoying.

Personally, I find Piplup and Rowlett to be the best ones on the last. Piplup and Rowlett share a few things in common, despite also serving as a comic relief from time to time, those being: a unique personality, great dynamics with other characters and pokemon, and an essential/important member of the cast or team. Chespin and Oshawott were just knock-offs of Piplup, in all honesty.

I haven't watched DP in a while, but I dare say that Piplup and Chespin are the less annoying ones, while Oshawott and Rowlet are very annoying to me.

Hm, fair enough. The main reason why I like Piplup, in all honesty, was not just because of the reasons I listed, but also because of his relationship with Pikachu, which, like Dawn and Ash, felt like a Best Friends sort of relationship and I really liked that a lot. You already explained your major distaste of Rowlet previous before in another thread, so I won't even go there. :LOL:

They are cute legends (exept for Chespin)

What if Grookey becomes the comic relief?

I think it's safe to say that Chloe's Eevee will probably be joining them? :unsure:

And before you say "But Eevee isn't a Starter!"

2 Words: Let's Go!

Also pretty sure May's Skitty filled the adorable unevolved gagmon role in Hoenn

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