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Anime & Manga General Discussion

Grass Knot can provide a decent amount of the same coverage and may be easier to animate.
True.

I swear it seemed like it failed more often than it actually worked.
Probably because of its high base power, so having opponents tank it or survive it is in theory a good way to establish how tough they are. Like "oh wow *insert Pokemon* just shrugged off a Volt Tackle! Ash and Pikachu are in serious trouble!". Of course, this is only in theory, as having the supposedly ultimate attack being constantly tanked will just start making it look weak.

At least Volt Tackle had a much higher success rate than Torterra's Rock Climb, though. Seriously, though, Rock Climb was like the anti-Seismic Toss: whenever Charizard successfully executed a Seismic Toss, it almost always guaranteed a victory. Whenever Torterra tried to use Rock Climb, it almost always caused it to lose.
 
What if they replaced Iron Tail or Quick Attack for a different non-Electric move?
I think these moves are as instrumental to Pikachu as Thunderbolt is, at this point.

  • Quick Attack. One of Pikachu's hallmark attributes is his speed, explicitly emphasized during Ash's battle with Lt. Surge and never dropped since. Quick Attack serves as a vehicle for that speed in battles, allowing Pikachu to cross distances quickly, dart around terrains nimbly, dodge moves aptly, and so on. It also serves as a "light" attack of sorts that can range in effectiveness - it can hit deceptively hard or serve as a way for Pikachu to damage someone not too much (such as for longer battling times; an example is the three consecutive strikes on Cameron's Lucario). There aren't too many moves it can learn that serve the same function as Quick Attack, legally anyway - Extreme Speed is a no, Agility does not damage, and Zippy Zap (humor me here) would be yet another Electric move, reducing coverage. Speaking of moves, Quick Attack can hit a range of opponents and gives Pikachu something to smack most other Electric-types with. It also serves as great stock footage and as a sequence of animation; we can usually appreciate the scope of a battlefield through Quick Attack. This last bit is minor, but the Japanese name of Quick Attack is the equivalent of Lightning Speed if translated; even the name has meaning for our little electrical rodent. The only alternative I can think of is Feint, but I don't see that happening.
  • Iron Tail. Quick Attack is to mobility what Iron Tail is to coverage. Its introduction into Pikachu's repertoire was to serve as a way to handle Ground-types (with the benefit of being able to hit 3 other types super-effectively that it could not otherwise), since Quick Attack wouldn't be enough and we all know about type match-ups. However, the anime has expanded upon the principle of coverage as Iron Tail has become a versatile tool for Pikachu - he can use it as a springboard, a lighting rod, to maintain balance, as a block for other physical moves, as a repellent for projectile attacks, limb extension, a grabbing tool, and more. It is also the move that Pikachu can amplify via gravity or momentum for stronger strikes, as we saw during its battles with Korrina's Lucario, Sho's Raichu, and Gladion's Silvally. And not to mention, it is Pikachu's brute force attack (to complement the lighter but speedier Quick Attack and ranged electrical moves) - simple, but it certainly has its merits. Similar to Quick Attack, there are not too many other moves that can replicate the feats Pikachu can do with Iron Tail; things like Slam or Brick Break would still involve the principles of Pikachu's tail for similar applicability, which are already inherent in the use of Iron Tail.
I think the only slot of rotation would be that Volt Tackle/Electro Ball/Electroweb slot, tbh; Pikachu has always had at least two Electric moves, though things can change in that regard I imagine. Everything else is too fundamental. That is not to say a new move may not be devised that can replace the aforementioned ones, though.
 
A part of me still wishes that Pikachu kept Volt Tackle since I thought that it was cool move, even if it did have recoil damage. But the fourth move is really the only expendable moveslot for Pikachu and I can't really blame them for wanting to give Pikachu a different move once in a while to mix things up. It took me awhile to like Electro Ball since it seemed less visually interesting compared to Volt Tackle. Electro Web is okay. It's at least a bit more unique compared to Electro Ball since it can be used offensively and defensively.
 
I think the only slot of rotation would be that Volt Tackle/Electro Ball/Electroweb slot, tbh; Pikachu has always had at least two Electric moves, though things can change in that regard I imagine. Everything else is too fundamental. That is not to say a new move may not be devised that can replace the aforementioned ones, though.
I kinda wish they just kept Pikachu using more than four moves, honestly. Who cares about the games? Apparently half the time the anime doesn't even follow game mechanics properly: why is this one so special? Especially since it makes zero sense. You ever tried unlearning how to ride a bike??? They could easily subvert this by saying the league requires pokemon to only use four moves, which is why trainers generally have their pokemon only use four moves, to adhere to the rules-which means the pokemon in question would still be able to use their old moves, there's just no real reason to anymore. Also, learning new skills does not replace your old skills-this is an anime from a game-obviously things won't make sense, but when they actually follow game mechanics...it suddenly makes even LESS sense.
 
I think these moves are as instrumental to Pikachu as Thunderbolt is, at this point.

  • Quick Attack. One of Pikachu's hallmark attributes is his speed, explicitly emphasized during Ash's battle with Lt. Surge and never dropped since. Quick Attack serves as a vehicle for that speed in battles, allowing Pikachu to cross distances quickly, dart around terrains nimbly, dodge moves aptly, and so on. It also serves as a "light" attack of sorts that can range in effectiveness - it can hit deceptively hard or serve as a way for Pikachu to damage someone not too much (such as for longer battling times; an example is the three consecutive strikes on Cameron's Lucario). There aren't too many moves it can learn that serve the same function as Quick Attack, legally anyway - Extreme Speed is a no, Agility does not damage, and Zippy Zap (humor me here) would be yet another Electric move, reducing coverage. Speaking of moves, Quick Attack can hit a range of opponents and gives Pikachu something to smack most other Electric-types with. It also serves as great stock footage and as a sequence of animation; we can usually appreciate the scope of a battlefield through Quick Attack. This last bit is minor, but the Japanese name of Quick Attack is the equivalent of Lightning Speed if translated; even the name has meaning for our little electrical rodent. The only alternative I can think of is Feint, but I don't see that happening.
  • Iron Tail. Quick Attack is to mobility what Iron Tail is to coverage. Its introduction into Pikachu's repertoire was to serve as a way to handle Ground-types (with the benefit of being able to hit 3 other types super-effectively that it could not otherwise), since Quick Attack wouldn't be enough and we all know about type match-ups. However, the anime has expanded upon the principle of coverage as Iron Tail has become a versatile tool for Pikachu - he can use it as a springboard, a lighting rod, to maintain balance, as a block for other physical moves, as a repellent for projectile attacks, limb extension, a grabbing tool, and more. It is also the move that Pikachu can amplify via gravity or momentum for stronger strikes, as we saw during its battles with Korrina's Lucario, Sho's Raichu, and Gladion's Silvally. And not to mention, it is Pikachu's brute force attack (to complement the lighter but speedier Quick Attack and ranged electrical moves) - simple, but it certainly has its merits. Similar to Quick Attack, there are not too many other moves that can replicate the feats Pikachu can do with Iron Tail; things like Slam or Brick Break would still involve the principles of Pikachu's tail for similar applicability, which are already inherent in the use of Iron Tail.
I think the only slot of rotation would be that Volt Tackle/Electro Ball/Electroweb slot, tbh; Pikachu has always had at least two Electric moves, though things can change in that regard I imagine. Everything else is too fundamental. That is not to say a new move may not be devised that can replace the aforementioned ones, though.
Why not Play Rough? It's a good coverage since it's an Fairy move, which is useful against Dragons, besides considering that Ash literally never used an Fairy move before (I mean they also just refuse to give him any Pokémon of that typing but yeah...) and...

Considering that we have seen the move in action before in the anime with Mimikyu, who also has an tail (I mean it's an stick but it works like a tail I guess?), it's another thing Pikachu can use his tail for, and there's also the fact that the smoke the move creates can also be used to confuse the opponent and for Pikachu to be able to evade and attack from other angles more easily. And all of this not counting the fact that it can be truly an brute force attack, since it visually seems more akin to an ''Close Combat'' type of move than an ''Tackle'' like Quick Attack is.
 
Why not Play Rough? It's a good coverage since it's an Fairy move, which is useful against Dragons, besides considering that Ash literally never used an Fairy move before (I mean they also just refuse to give him any Pokémon of that typing but yeah...) and...

Considering that we have seen the move in action before in the anime with Mimikyu, who also has an tail (I mean it's an stick but it works like a tail I guess?), it's another thing Pikachu can use his tail for, and there's also the fact that the smoke the move creates can also be used to confuse the opponent and for Pikachu to be able to evade and attack from other angles more easily. And all of this not counting the fact that it can be truly an brute force attack, since it visually seems more akin to an ''Close Combat'' type of move than an ''Tackle'' like Quick Attack is.
I don't really think that move fits Pikachu, though. Play Rough worked well for Mimikkyu because of how the move was presented: a very brutal move, and while Pikachu can be rater brutal himself, it's more with his own moves that fit his style rather than an actual move that fits that description.
That being said, will Pikachu really learn a move in this episode? While it's weird that Pikachu is shown twice in the trailer using attacks at odd angles both times, he's using Thunderbolt both times-and that move sure as hell isn't going to get replaced. It's literally Pikachu's signature at this point.
 
I don't really think that move fits Pikachu, though. Play Rough worked well for Mimikkyu because of how the move was presented: a very brutal move, and while Pikachu can be rater brutal himself, it's more with his own moves that fit his style rather than an actual move that fits that description.
That being said, will Pikachu really learn a move in this episode? While it's weird that Pikachu is shown twice in the trailer using attacks at odd angles both times, he's using Thunderbolt both times-and that move sure as hell isn't going to get replaced. It's literally Pikachu's signature at this point.
I mean, after Pikachu throat chopped Skyla's Unfezant with a lot of force by using Iron Tail and then hitting it with an point-blank Electro Ball he proved that he's is pretty brutal when he wants to lol. And also counting in the fact that Pikachu really lacks an true, strong close-ranged attack too.
 
I mean, after Pikachu throat chopped Skyla's Unfezant with a lot of force by using Iron Tail and then hitting it with an point-blank Electro Ball he proved that he's is pretty brutal when he wants too lol. And also counting in the fact that Pikachu really lacks and true, strong close-ranged attack too.
Fair point lol. :LOL:

Honestly, I just don't want any of his moves to go: especially Electroweb...seriously, I never understood why literally out of nowhere the anime staff decided to stick with the four-move rule when it makes no sense in the anime universe yet ignore logistics of other game mechanics as well lol.
 
Actually, I just recalled this:

I will NEVER forgive the anime from turning Ballonlea from this:
Ballonlea_SwSh.png
To this:
Ballonlea_anime.png
Like, why is everything so lifeless? Where are the dark colors and neon giant mushrooms? Why does everything here looks like 6 trucks carrying bleach had an spillage all over the city? I get that it didn't showed up a lot in the ep, but man, the fact that they butchered my fav town of all times in the anime...

And you cannot even use the ''it's too complex'' excuse here, since Hammerlocke looks straight up the same as in the games.

I will forever be mad about this.
 
Fair point lol. :LOL:

Honestly, I just don't want any of his moves to go: especially Electroweb...seriously, I never understood why literally out of nowhere the anime staff decided to stick with the four-move rule when it makes no sense in the anime universe yet ignore logistics of other game mechanics as well lol.
I actually don't mind the four moves rule in the anime, and I think Electroweb is a way more useful move than Electro Ball ever was. Or even Volt Tackle, arguably, as it was basically just Quick Attack and Thunderbolt rolled into one.
 
I think the reason the anime obeys the 4 moveslot rule is mainly to make things easier for the writers and animators to maintain consistency, something that would be pretty tricky to do if they had to keep up with like 10 different attacks at once for each Pokemon. By contrast, running only four moves at the time on each Pokemon helps keep things consistent more easily. Plus, there's also the fact that in the vast majority of cases, Pokemon that have used more than four moves throughout the course of the anime was because they gradually learned more powerful versions of their earlier ones, which makes it rather pointless to keep the weaker variants around: why would anyone call for a Bubble attack if the Pokemon using that move already learned Bubble Beam, for example? And there aren't many situations where Ember would be more useful than Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Basically, keeping the 4 moveslot rule can help indicate a Pokemon's growth for when they ditch a less powerful and/or useful move for something better.
 
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The four move slot limit is a staple for the series as a whole. I’m the OS when a Pokémon used more than 4 moves at once it was widely regarded as a mistake rather than a creative deviation from the games.
But it made sense, though. Back to the "unlearning riding a bike" reasoning, it felt more natural when OS had pokemon use more than four moves at times. And even if the reasoning behind the four-move limit is true(as Ghost Diplocaulus has provided) it's never directly stated, so we get no information on that matter. Plus, while I agree with the sign of growth point, the weaker moves being replaced with the stronger moves, what about if the opposite happens? Or if the negatives out-weight the benefits? I dunno, I'm probably being obstinate on this matter, but I still feel as if the anime should either choose to stick with game mechanics or just not go with it at all.
 
But it made sense, though. Back to the "unlearning riding a bike" reasoning, it felt more natural when OS had pokemon use more than four moves at times. And even if the reasoning behind the four-move limit is true(as Ghost Diplocaulus has provided) it's never directly stated, so we get no information on that matter. Plus, while I agree with the sign of growth point, the weaker moves being replaced with the stronger moves, what about if the opposite happens? Or if the negatives out-weight the benefits? I dunno, I'm probably being obstinate on this matter, but I still feel as if the anime should either choose to stick with game mechanics or just not go with it at all.
I believe it actually is outright stated at some point that Pokemon learn four moves, but all I’m going on is loose memory so take that for what it’s worth lol. In the OS I was actually more confused than anything as a kid.
 
But it made sense, though. Back to the "unlearning riding a bike" reasoning, it felt more natural when OS had pokemon use more than four moves at times. And even if the reasoning behind the four-move limit is true(as Ghost Diplocaulus has provided) it's never directly stated, so we get no information on that matter. Plus, while I agree with the sign of growth point, the weaker moves being replaced with the stronger moves, what about if the opposite happens? Or if the negatives out-weight the benefits? I dunno, I'm probably being obstinate on this matter, but I still feel as if the anime should either choose to stick with game mechanics or just not go with it at all.
As Pokemon Origins demonstrated, sticking completely to game mechanics would make battles monumentally boring to watch, since nearly all of them would be OHKOs or 2HKOs at best with very little movement in between attacks being executed, since dodging is also not a thing that exists in the games. Also, has there ever been a case of a Pokemon forgetting strong moves in favor of weaker ones? Because I don't think there has, so that's basically a non-issue. The only example I can think of was Pikachu ditching Volt Tackle in favor of Electro Ball, but that feels like it was done more to shake up Pikachu's battles visually than anything else.
 
Why not Play Rough? It's a good coverage since it's an Fairy move, which is useful against Dragons, besides considering that Ash literally never used an Fairy move before (I mean they also just refuse to give him any Pokémon of that typing but yeah...) and...

Considering that we have seen the move in action before in the anime with Mimikyu, who also has an tail (I mean it's an stick but it works like a tail I guess?), it's another thing Pikachu can use his tail for, and there's also the fact that the smoke the move creates can also be used to confuse the opponent and for Pikachu to be able to evade and attack from other angles more easily. And all of this not counting the fact that it can be truly an brute force attack, since it visually seems more akin to an ''Close Combat'' type of move than an ''Tackle'' like Quick Attack is.
For all intents and purposes, Iron Tail is "truly a brute force attack." And as for Play Rough, it doesn't really hit any of the perks, feats, or characteristics I listed for Iron Tail (aside from coverage, but both moves let Pikachu hit 3 other types super-effectively). Iron Tail also lends itself better to combinations for Pikachu to pull off within its moveset, such as Volt Tackle + Iron Tail, Electro Ball + Iron Tail, & Electroweb + Iron Tail.

It is also very comical in execution (which worked for Mimikyu given its gag of violence and beating people silly, as well as the tone of Alola) and obscuring clouds that evoke old cartoon character fights is not something I would find appealing visually on a constant basis. Also, Pikachu has generated clouds of dirt or debris for visibility before without the move too; I really like how it can use Iron Tail to not only break apart terrain but launch said pieces of terrain into the air, like he did with Sawyer's Aegislash & Clemont's Bunnelby.
 
The only example I can think of was Pikachu ditching Volt Tackle in favor of Electro Ball, but that feels like it was done more to shake up Pikachu's battles visually than anything else.
Technically, Electro Ball can be stronger than Volt Tackle as it can reach a whopping BP of 150 (over 120, with the occasional recoil) should the user be that much faster than its opponent (in-game, paralyzing opponents helps to achieve such a level of BP). This was why I was okay with the change (although I prefer Volt Tackle), since Pikachu's new move could potentially be stronger than its previous coup de grace if anyone wanted to get practical; sure a Pikachu's Attack stat is a bit higher, but I feel like it would be relative (especially if you're battling opponents with low Special Defense; I digress though - this is the anime, haha). I think a better comparison would be going from Electro Ball to Electroweb, but I know you appreciate its versatility (as do I).
 
I believe it actually is outright stated at some point that Pokemon learn four moves, but all I’m going on is loose memory so take that for what it’s worth lol. In the OS I was actually more confused than anything as a kid.
Original series also liked to give Pokémon random moves out of nowhere, some of which were never even used again. A prime example is Charmander's Rage from season 1, which was never used again after just one episode.
 
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