Another new title + Episode Info?

[Habunake]

He has a Kricketune!

Everyone knows Kengo is the best Rival, no doubt.

You know, Zoey was the person who said Ash should give Aipom to Dawn waaaaay back in her very first appearance. This is a follow-up to that, 50 eps later.

Zoey: Hey, Ash, trade Aipom now for Buizel!
Ash: No way, we'll just enter Contest every once in awhile.
Zoey: What...you son of a...
Ash: MUKU MUKU MUKU MUKU! (punches Zoey into a bloody pulp)

*everyone cheers*

 

[Shift]

Okay, we've got a possible trade on our hands. Let's look at the pros and cons of such a trade, shall we?

Pros:
Shows off trading
Remedies the two monkeys/two water types issue
Concludes foreshadowing from Zoey's intro

Cons:
Results in Zoey being proven right that battles and contests are incompatable
Leaves Ash with the standard Elec./Grass/Fire/Water/Flying set-up
Two big changes to Ash's team (3 counting James' Cacnea) in less than 5 episodes

Add more if you see fit.

 

[Nando]

Results in Zoey being proven right that battles and contests are incompatable

This alone is why Nando needs to exist.

 

[Shift]

This alone is why Nando needs to exist.

Yeah, I'm impressed such things were thought of so far back. I've never seen this sort of advance planning in Pokemon before.

 

[Chaosblazer]

Leaves Ash with the standard Elec./Grass/Fire/Water/Flying set-up

If the trade happens it's what we(yes i am included as i'm just as guily of it) get for being arrogent of Ash getting new types, after all the moment Dawn got Buizel everyone began thinking and declaring the "mold" would be broken and we'd see new stuff, but it looks like the payback from being overconfident came back to haunt people, some more worse than others.

Two big changes to Ash's team (3 counting James' Cacnea) in less than 5 episodes

I don't consider this a con, he's had the same boring four guys for the past 40 plus episodes and it was about time he had some form of change on his line up.

 

[Rocketshipper]

Cons:
Results in Zoey being proven right that battles and contests are incompatable
Leaves Ash with the standard Elec./Grass/Fire/Water/Flying set-up
Two big changes to Ash's team (3 counting James' Cacnea) in less than 5 episodes

adding on...

-a trade would negate the development Dawn had with Buizel in the Lucian and Double Performance training episodes
-A trade will end up validating all the "How DARE they give Buizel to Dawn!!!" insanity that went on back when the capture happened.

 

[Ashfangirl17]

I really do think this could be a good thing people. Any ways here's food for thought ever notice how Ash had two monkeys on his team while Dawn had two water types on her team?
This canncles that problem out now and the Pokemon will still get to see the owners before.

 

[Duckgon Z]

The main thing we can take from this is that the fandom is never pleased. People wanted Buizel for Ash so bad, but they wanted him to keep Aipom, but used it as a scape goat though they thought that it would never be gone. But now it's put up or shut up time, and people are whining about Dawn for Buizel.

This fandom's fucking screwy...

 

[Cybersai]

Well Rocketshipper did make some good points that all those Dawn/Buizel eps are essentially pointless if she trades.

Dawn...literally didn't do anything with Buizel aside from those training episodes. What was the point in getting Dawn to control such a strong Pokemon if she never used it in her Contests?

 

[Piplup]

Gah, Zoey AGAIN? She's a boring character with a rude personality, and now I get the feeling she's going to try and FORCE the Aipom/Buizel trade. (That would lend some stock to the idea of the trade being undone later on, though)

She isn't rude at all and won't force anything... she's just the most logical choice out of the important characters to give the idea of a trade (that we still don't know for sure she'll do)
Quoting myself again...

I also think Zoey is a good character and can't understand what people want from her
she's "nosy"? because she has her own opinion about doing both gyms and contests? (that she's right about... those are two different things that also have different battle style and to do both might be too hard and also confuse the trainer and his Pokémon... and Nando probably know that too- thats why he tried to choose one and didn't from the beginning decide to do both... I guess only really talented trainers can handle both and Fantina probably will be one like that) because she cares for the poor Aipom and suggested (not forced but suggested nicely) a logical solution for its problem? because she -might- (we don't even know for sure) give them in this episode the logical idea to trade?

Why does Zoey get overused while an actually interesting character like Nando is relegated to three episodes, two of which he played little more than a supporting role in?

I can't see how you can think Nando is more interesting than Zoey... and if he's interesting because he do gyms+contests we can also say Zoey has that thing against gyms/contest to make her interesting

If anything, Nando should appear himself in some of Zoey's episodes to actually try and advance the reason(s) behind her hatred of people who do both gyms and contests.

He did in DP49 and I think Zoey might really change her mind or at least begin to do so but I couldn't understand most of what she said after her battle with him... if someone can translate that'll be nice

You know, Zoey was the person who said Ash should give Aipom to Dawn waaaaay back in her very first appearance. This is a follow-up to that, 50 eps later.

I knew she'd probably be the one to suggest the trade
But that really makes you wonder why she didn't say anything about Buizel before?
She obviously won't randomly say "hey let have Aipom and Buizel battle to see Buizel isn't for contests!" so interesting if Buizel might do something in this episode to cause everyone to understand it won't like contests

and uses grass Pokemon

So just because 2 of his Pokémon are grass types he can't have others?
I can't understand why people continue to think he's a grass Pokémon trainer despite he has Kricketune
Ash had 2 grass types in Johto and he did have other types too

Cons:
Results in Zoey being proven right that battles and contests are incompatable
Leaves Ash with the standard Elec./Grass/Fire/Water/Flying set-up
Two big changes to Ash's team (3 counting James' Cacnea) in less than 5 episodes

Should I quote myself again for the 534543 time?

I can't see any of those as a bad thing
It's good they finally emphasize on the difference between gyms and contests... if they were too similar why would we need to have both?
And that obviously isn't the first time we get some Pokémon changes around the same time... and even if it was again I can't see what so bad about that

I really can't understand how Ash getting a Spiritomb for example instead of Chimchar would be better... in that case actually Chimchar is much better thanks to all the building and development that was and will continue to be even after he catch it and if the trade happen it also got a lot of building (since the Kanto GF!) and probably will continue to be developed after the trade to show us how the Pokémon are with their new trainers

If I could choose: let Aipom stay without its love for contests (that would take from its character) and Ash get a new type instead of Chimchar and catch it like any other Pokémon or Chimchar/Buizel I'm sure I'll choose Chimchar/Buizel thanks to all the interesting building and development and the new ideas of main characters trading and a main character catch a Pokémon released by his rival
Also the Pikachu/flying/grass/fire/water team proved to work so why would they drop it? I can understand why those types and I don't care if it stays that way

-a trade would negate the development Dawn had with Buizel in the Lucian

Lucian taught her she must battle hoe Buizel wants and not like she wants
We know Buizel's style much better suited for gyms and that contest battle style confused it
If something the Lucian episode hinted at the trade and again you try to change that into the opposite
How will Dawn use Buizel in contests if it'll disobey if she won't battle the way it wants?

Double Performance training episodes

Either they'll trade later and not now and we'll get Hearthome's contest again or she and Ash will have a tag battle

-A trade will end up validating all the "How DARE they give Buizel to Dawn!!!" insanity that went on back when the capture happened.

It's stupid how people want or don't want the trade to happen only because what some stupids said
Or how some want the whole Aipom/Buizel thing to get concluded as soon as possible and be rushed just so we'll stop speculating
They shouldn't trade that fast and take their time and develope this the best way they can

if she never used it in her Contests?

Again they might only bring the idea now and trade later... but if not it's really stupid that buizel didn't get to try a contest despite how Dawn even trained it and planned to let it participate at Hearthome

 

[Rocketshipper]

If something the Lucian episode hinted at the trade and again you try to change that into the opposite

The Lucian episode only worked to show that Buizel likes battling, in and of itself. Enjoying battles =/= dislike of contest battling. If that episode had really been meant to foreshadow the trade, it would have been quicker, and less confusing, to have Lucian point out Buizel's "incompatibility" with contest battling or something. Instead, they turned it into what was basicly Dawn's equivalent of "Charizard Chills", having her learn how to control a disobediant Pokemon better. Why do that if she's never going to NEED to know how to control it?

How will Dawn use Buizel in contests if it'll disobey if she won't battle the way it wants?[/

You don't know that Buizel would disobey Dawn in a contest, she hasn't even had the chance to try yet, and it certainly hasn't had any problems following her orders since that Lucian episode. And anyway, the whole double performance episode negates that; Dawn was battling with Buizel and Buneary in preperation for a CONTEST, and yet Buizel had no problems following orders and showed no dislike for the battle. Do you think it would suddenly change it's mind in the actual contest?

 

[Piplup]

The Lucian episode only worked to show that Buizel likes battling, in and of itself. Enjoying battles =/= dislike of contest battling. If that episode had really been meant to foreshadow the trade, it would have been quicker, and less confusing, to have Lucian point out Buizel's "incompatibility" with contest battling or something. Instead, they turned it into what was basicly Dawn's equivalent of "Charizard Chills", having her learn how to control a disobediant Pokemon better. Why do that if she's never going to NEED to know how to control it?

She didn't really learn to control it
She just learn that she must battle they it wants and not the way she wants or otherwise it'll disobey
And we know how it wants to battle won't work that good in contests and that it gets confused from contest battle style

You don't know that Buizel would disobey Dawn in a contest,

I didn't say there is no chance it'll obey but just that what I think by what we saw in DP34-35

she hasn't even had the chance to try yet, and it certainly hasn't had any problems following her orders since that Lucian episode.

It's not like it did much... and except for DP41 where Ash battled Dawn like a contest battle it never did contest battles
I guess we are supposed to think now it obeys because she got its style and battle like it wants but if it isn't good for contests... won't Buizel is more likely to lose? Buizel probably will battle like Ash's Sceptile in the unofficial contest and like it that would cause it to lose points... if Dawn will want to make it battle differently it'll just disobey as Lucian proved she must battle like it wants

And anyway, the whole double performance episode negates that; Dawn was battling with Buizel and Buneary in preperation for a CONTEST, and yet Buizel had no problems following orders

But a real contest also had the judges and has points and time limits
As I said if it'll battle like Sceptile in the unofficial contest which is likely just like it that will cause it to lose points
Also I can really see Buizel exaggerating in its battle like how it continued to attack Zoey's Glameow after in was defeated (or seemed so at least) and Dawn might lose points or maybe even automatically lose for that

and showed no dislike for the battle.

The summary already confirmed that Buizel prefers battles over contests

 

[Rocketshipper]

She didn't really learn to control it
She just learn that she must battle they it wants and not the way she wants or otherwise it'll disobey
And we know how it wants to battle won't work that good in contests and that it gets confused from contest battle style

Honestly that whole "battle the way it wants" thing really makes no sense in comparison to everything else the show has done, and I've always wondered if maybe we just didn't get what Lucian meant or something got lost in translation between the japanese raw and the summaries or what. (I look forward to seeing the dub of this episode in a few weeks, to see if that clarifies anything). As I think someone else pointed out in another thread for that episode, if a trainer is simply supposed to tell a Pokemon what it already wants to do, why does it need a trainer in the first place? It just seems to contradict what the show has done before (kind of like that old Johto episode that said Pokemon can't understand human speech, when its OBVIOUS that they can)

The summary already confirmed that Buizel prefers battles over contests

My statement in the last post was reffering to the Double Performance training episode (in which Buizel showed no dislike for the practice contest battle they were having). None of my comments were related to DP 055.

 

[Ashfangirl17]

Well Rocketshipper did make some good points that all those Dawn/Buizel eps are essentially pointless if she trades.

Dawn...literally didn't do anything with Buizel aside from those training episodes. What was the point in getting Dawn to control such a strong Pokemon if she never used it in her Contests?

Maybe the writers just wanted to show how it wouldn't be a good fit for contests.I mean some people wanted Dawn to catch the Buizel, they probaly figured this would shut those people up becuase it doesn't want to do contests. They might have wanted to show them that Buizel is better fit for Ash in the end.

 

[Piplup]

Honestly that whole "battle the way it wants" thing really makes no sense in comparison to everything else the show has done, and I've always wondered if maybe we just didn't get what Lucian meant or something got lost in translation between the japanese raw and the summaries or what. (I look forward to seeing the dub of this episode in a few weeks, to see if that clarifies anything).

I can't remember if I understood myself what the characters said or if I just read it on someone's post so I can't confirm what exactly they said but it seems to be right

As I think someone else pointed out in another thread for that episode, if a trainer is simply supposed to tell a Pokemon what it already wants to do, why does it need a trainer in the first place?

To train it? to let it battle at gyms/contests that wild Pokémon can't get in? to be friends? to get stronger together with them?
The idea here isn't that Buizel knows exactly which attacks it wants to use each time and Dawn now knows to predict that but simply its battle style that Dawn currently using when she use it instead of her own (or at least that what DP35 would make you sugget... I do admit I can't find any difference at her battle style when she use her other Pokémon but it seems like that what we're supposed to think)

My statement in the last post was reffering to the Double Performance training episode (in which Buizel showed no dislike for the practice contest battle they were having). None of my comments were related to DP 055.

I know but I just said DP55 will give us the confirmation that Buizel do prefer battles over contests

 

[Nando]

Zoey is rude and nosy because she can't mind her own business. It isn't her place to tell Ash and Dawn what to do with their Pokémon.

She isn't rude at all

"Hey, I know. Why don't you just give away that Pokémon that you've spent months with on a lark?"

Rude.

because she cares for the poor Aipom and suggested (not forced but suggested nicely) a logical solution for its problem?

Poor Aipom? POOR AIPOM?! Are you kidding me? You speak as if Aipom is Paul's soon-to-be-ex Chimchar or any other Pokémon owned by Paul.

And Aipom has a problem? Are you even watching the same show as me? Aipom's supposed "problem", as you call it, is actually having a trainer who cares about it enough to go out of his way to make it happy.

Real severe problem there.

I can't see how you can think Nando is more interesting than Zoey

Because he's well versed in the mythology of the region we're in, and because he actually has manners (unlike a certain other coordinator)

He did in DP49 and I think Zoey might really change her mind or at least begin to do so but I couldn't understand most of what she said after her battle with him... if someone can translate that'll be nice

He should've been in the Buizel capture episode.

 

[Zeta]

I haven't seen this big of a wank in this fandom since they replaced Misty, it's really weird to see people get this worked up over something as minor as a Pokemon trade.

 

[Platina Berlitz]

So, we can blame Zoey for this, okay, it just gives us another reason to hate her (from a Dawn fanboy point of view)

 

[Duckgon Z]

Like I said before, Zoey needs to GTFO of other people's business. It's really fucking annoying when she does the same "Contestz>Gymz!111!" shtick everytime she appears. Let these kids solve their own problem Ms. Dr. Phil, geez.

 

[Habunake]

Why would a Dawn fanboy hate Zoey when she's nice to her?

Hell, besides the Contest/Gym thing, Zoey's a sweetheart.