Anyone else going to be burned out after ORAS?

[Mitchman]

After XY and then ORAS, I'm seriously considering dropping out after this gen. The constant content roller coaster is ridiculous at this point, and in combination with annualization, its hurting me even more. I mean we went from a game with a barebones single player, little post game, no real sidequest and a limited interaction with the world. Then a year later, with ORAS, you got from what we know so far, a month away:
-Secret Bases
-Contests
-Overworld Flying with exploration on uncharted parts.
-A Pokenav that would rival the Poketch. It has everything from the Habitat Dex to the Trainer Eye. It comes with a new sneaking method to catch wild Pokemon visible on the OW. Complete with moveset hints and abilities.

See what I mean? They barely made an effort with XY, or at least didn't have a chance to. Why? Well, maybe its cause of these games, or its because they had to get something out by the end of 2013. All I know is that most if not all of this likely will get cut out by gen 7, and I just can't deal with the lack of Content Parity within a series.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm definitely losing interest in the series because of the content roller coaster and because of the shift towards being a casual kids' game. And really the content roller coaster thing has gotten worse since 5th gen, since most of the features they removed in those games were minor things that wouldn't really be missed or had a regional counterpart that performed a similar function. 5th gen is when they started stripping away actual content.

ORAS I'm actually somewhat impressed with because it was starting to look like the game would be a bit more barebones and then they blow us away with things like Soaring and the Pokenav Plus, but I'm going to have a hard time dealing with the removal of those features in future games.

 

[Talon87]

You're being overly dramatic saying "they barely made an effort with XY." XY shows much evidence of on-site research. No previous Pokémon title even comes close in the attention to detail that was paid to architecture, geography, and culture. Far more ambitious than having a sprite follow you around on the overworld map, the team went and invented Pokémon-amie, coding over 700 creatures' unique animations. You may not like it or even use it, but that one little feature took a heck of a lot of effort to code. The developers invented Super Training to make EV training easier, more accessible to younger players, and fun. They included launch-day support for seven different languages, all of which are available on the very copy you own. They created the Holo Caster, making it easier than ever before to know about upcoming tournaments weeks before they happen. Say what you want about Game Freak and how disappointed you are in X and Y, but to suggest that they "barely made an effort" is the worst kind of hyperbole.

What you'd be correct to say, and what Bolt has touched on, is that X and Y show clear signs of withholding features from players that 1) we know they know we want and 2) we know they're going to include in a later same-gen title. There's a deliberate effort by the team to save goodies for later games in the same generation in order to promote those games' sales. After all, if ORAS brought absolutely nothing new to the table aside from being a Hoenn reboot, how many of you would still purchase it? Quite a few, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that quite a few of you would not. Let's face it: for many, the driving force in purchasing a copy of Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire isn't to play through another easy peasy Story Mode of Pokémon: it's to get the goodies. Goodies like new megas, goodies like the Battle Frontier, goodies like Secret Bases. Including these in X and Y would have made X and Y stronger titles, yes, but it would have also hurt sales of ORAS one year later.

I sympathize. My own biggest personal complaint with XY is the inability to challenge the Battle Maison to a multi battle with a friend far away. For whatever reason, this feature is present in the Gen IV and V games but was reduced in XY to only permitting co-op challenges with friends nearby or else with an A.I.-controlled teammate. I have zero doubt that ORAS will see the return of WiFi co-op challenges at the Battle Frontier. And I'm confident that they deliberately withheld this feature from XY to require fans like myself to purchase ORAS and/or XY2 or Z. Do I like that? No. Is it something I've come to expect from Game Freak? Yes. Does it mean that they "barely made an effort with XY"? No. The effort that was put into XY is clear. They're by no means perfect games, but they're not lazy cash-ins either.

 

[Mitchman]

Worst is, you can tell where the priorities lie. They left the meat of the game to be revealed last, after shoving megas down our throats for five months.

 

[Bolt Strike]

What you'd be correct to say, and what Bolt has touched on, is that X and Y show clear signs of withholding features from players that 1) we know they know we want and 2) we know they're going to include in a later same-gen title. There's a deliberate effort by the team to save goodies for later games in the same generation in order to promote those games' sales. After all, if ORAS brought absolutely nothing new to the table aside from being a Hoenn reboot, how many of you would still purchase it? Quite a few, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that quite a few of you would not. Let's face it: for many, the driving force in purchasing a copy of Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire isn't to play through another easy peasy Story Mode of Pokémon: it's to get the goodies. Goodies like new megas, goodies like the Battle Frontier, goodies like Secret Bases. Including these in X and Y would have made X and Y stronger titles, yes, but it would have also hurt sales of ORAS one year later.

Exactly. I was talking about this on the customization thread, and I think they've gone too far with it. For one, some of the things they've removed are pretty important features or affect the gameplay pretty significantly, I mean it's one thing if you remove something like Contests or Secret Bases because those things aren't at all important to the gameplay (although they definitely should have at least one of those kinds of features for the sake of having a decent amount of replay value). Removing stuff like trainer rematches, some of the gadget apps and berry planting is a bit more damaging because that starts to limit the main gameplay. Second, they talk about how certain features are region exclusive but the fact of the matter is that they've retooled or implemented differently certain features from past games to fit the new game's themes, such as what they did with Contests and Secret Bases in 4th gen or Musicals in 5th gen. So you can still keep the function of a particular feature while altering it to fit a particular game. Ultimately, I think Game Freak needs to get smarter about how they approach game content. I understand the idea of making games unique, but at the same time there needs to be some kind of standard for how much and what kind of content needs to be included in a Pokemon game.

Worst is, you can tell where the priorities lie. They left the meat of the game to be revealed last, after shoving megas down our throats for five months.

This is something that really bothered me about ORAS' news cycle, there is far too much emphasis placed on Mega Evolutions and it took them until now to show off something that was actually new. I really hope they get off this Mega Evolution kick soon, it's rapidly becoming less of a novelty the more of them they show off.

 

[Piplup]

I'll forever love pkmn and continue to play/watch it, but... I can understand the frustration... XY was disappointing, and Gamefreak keep removing cool features which is really annoying because it feels like we're going back, rather than keep everything and add on it and develope into even better game every gen... also, I think after BW+BW2 they'll never manage to give us even half as good story/characters as we got in these games, so for these of us who care about the plot side of the games, there's not much to look forward to... XY was the worst in that department, and ORAS is a modified remake so we mostly know what to expect and the "new" parts are either already spoiled to us or will probably still fail to be anything that good...
I can only hope whatever game they'll release around the franchise's 20th anniversary will make up for all these things... imagine if, at least once for this special occassion, we could get a game combining the removed features of all past games together in one game? imagine getting a plot as good as (or better) BW's? but sadly I'm not really expecting any of that to happen... and still, I'll keep playing the games and enjoy them for what they are

 

[Silktree]

I don't care for the XY or ORAS features. I am much more worried about the plot quality having gone down since Black and White, and the lack of an engaging post-game quest that takes more than an hour to complete.

 

[Ivysaur]

Poké-burn out sucks when you've followed and played the series for so long. Overall, I've enjoyed Gen VI and I think it's done more (so far) to keep me interested in the franchise than what Gen V offered. But the storyline and post-game content are still big issues. You can only milk 8 badges and typical evil teams for so long.

That being said, I liked that they jumped from XY straight to ORAS and it doesn't seem they'll do a third version. On the off chance they do, that'll put me off. It doesn't make sense to pay full price for what is essentially a director's cut of relatively new game. Not in 2014, in a world where DLC is a thing and is finally being embraced by Nintendo.

 

[Bolt Strike]

That being said, I liked that they jumped from XY straight to ORAS and it doesn't seem they'll do a third version. On the off chance they do, that'll put me off. It doesn't make sense to pay full price for what is essentially a director's cut of relatively new game. Not in 2014, in a world where DLC is a thing and is finally being embraced by Nintendo.

What about sequels? A sequel isn't the same as its predecessor, it's an entirely new game that takes place in an old region, and that would be worth the $40 price tag IMO.

 

[Ivysaur]

That being said, I liked that they jumped from XY straight to ORAS and it doesn't seem they'll do a third version. On the off chance they do, that'll put me off. It doesn't make sense to pay full price for what is essentially a director's cut of relatively new game. Not in 2014, in a world where DLC is a thing and is finally being embraced by Nintendo.

What about sequels? A sequel isn't the same as its predecessor, it's an entirely new game that takes place in an old region, and that would be worth the $40 price tag IMO.

I don't see XY getting the sequel treatment because:

1) There isn't much of a plot to build off of, unlike BW.
2) The Unova map always had a lot of empty space, specifically the western side, which made expanding the region easy. I'm not sure there's to much to add in Kalos.

 

[Lysson]

Character customization is my favourite feature... which isn't making it into ORAS.
Everything looks cool but like usual it'll probably be a standalone thing. Just like Pokemon following you, ball seals, dream world and now character customization. So I won't get burned out as I now know features will be removed and replaced.

Flying on the back of Pokemon seems groundbreaking, but so was character customization and the dream world.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't see XY getting the sequel treatment because:

1) There isn't much of a plot to build off of, unlike BW.

That's the nice thing about extrapolation, it doesn't really require anything to build on something. That being said, there are a few loose ends they can use such as the fate of Lysandre, Zygarde's role, and Malva.

2) The Unova map always had a lot of empty space, specifically the western side, which made expanding the region easy. I'm not sure there's to much to add in Kalos.

Not sure there's much to add? When the entire southern portion of the map is completely barren? Surely you must be joking, XY's map is about as barren as BW1's was, there's plenty of places for expansion. I could easily see them adding more areas in the south and maybe a few in the northeast.

 

[Silktree]

Masuda has essentially confirmed that there won't be another Kalos game, as XY will be wrapped up in a unique way.

 

[Talon87]

Masuda has essentially confirmed that there won't be another Kalos game, as XY will be wrapped up in a unique way.

From the interview you mention in the post you just linked to, we have this quote:

"For example, if after Black and White we came out with a grey, people would have been expecting that," he said. "Same thing with X/Y and having a Z straight afterwards. So we're always just trying to surprise people."

Bold emphasis my own but the words are his. He says that they didn't want to do XY followed immediately by Z. He doesn't say that they never want to do Z. If anything, drawing attention to the fact that they didn't want to do a Z immediately after an XY suggests that a Z is slightly more probable than it was before this interview. Many people have already drawn attention to the fact that Zygarde's story is as yet unexplored. And it seems very unlikely that his story will be explored in ORAS. Given this, one would naturally expect either a Z or an XY2 to fill in the blanks regarding Zygarde's role in the region. He is little different in this regard from Giratina (DP vs. Pt) and Kyurem (BW vs. BW2).

 

[Silktree]

drawing attention to the fact that they didn't want to do a Z immediately after an XY suggests that a Z is slightly more probable than it was before this interview.

Except he added that they wanted to tie XY together in a unique way. A third version definitely wouldn't be unique, and he ruled out a sequel in the very same sentence.

He wouldn't mention wanting to surprise players if they were just going to do what was expected of them right after ORAS, anyway. He'd just say that anything could happen in the future and ORAS are the focus right now.

Given this, one would naturally expect either a Z or an XY2 to fill in the blanks regarding Zygarde's role in the region.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about DLC providing this closure. A single Pokémon, which is already available, doesn't warrant its own game. It speaks volumes that Game Freak have decided to make all (non-event) Pokémon be obtainable between XY and ORAS alone.

 

[Life]

I'm definitely losing interest in the series because of the content roller coaster and because of the shift towards being a casual kids' game.

Hasn't Pokemon always been a casual kids' game? :s

What was it before?

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm definitely losing interest in the series because of the content roller coaster and because of the shift towards being a casual kids' game.

Hasn't Pokemon always been a casual kids' game? :s

What was it before?

Not to the degree that it is in 5th and 6th gen. That was when they started decreasing the difficulty, removing content, and dumbing down everything. Before 5th gen I would've described Pokemon as being "general audience" but now that it's lost a great deal of depth and challenge it's more explicitly aimed at kids and casuals.

 

[henrymidfields]

I don't really care too much about the lack of content in XY. Similarly I don't see myself buying ORAS to the same excitement as I did with XY.

For one, I've been busy trying to complete the National Pokedex. And I am still not done yet, with still around 90 more Pokémon to record, and if I consider the legendaries, it'll still be a while before I'll be able to record them. (I intend to complete Black 2 and send the legendaries over to Bank.)

For two, I've been also busy trying to play catch up with Black 1 and Black 2. That includes the story, the legendaries that I intend to send to XY via Bank, and checking out the contents including Pokestar Studioes, and the Unova Link. I'm still not even halfway through - I haven't done anything yet in Nimbasa City, so I don't think I'll finish Black 2 until December at the earliest.

For three, I wasn't really a fan of RSE to start with, so I don't really see myself buying the remakes as of yet. I have a significant preference for realism (pretty much above everything else) when it come to fantasy regions based on reality. One of them is interregional connectivity, especially if it's part of a country where we had previous regions. The utter lack of such was what made me think less of Hoenn (which is essentially Kyushu). Even if a boat/maglev ride to Johto wasn't an option, they could have made much more references to Kanto and Jotho with previous character cameos, or Hoenn facilities which are explicitly related to whatever facility they have in Johto/Kanto. (eg Hoenn branch office of Silph instead of Devon, a market that see goods from Johto's Moo Moo Farm etc) Another is how the region feels, and the Tropical theme doesn't really make sense: Kyushu isn't THAT south of Honshu, and it isn't THAT warmer in climate either - places like Fukuoka City actually do drop below 10 deg celcius, and do get snowed during winter. If Hoenn was based on, say Hawaii/Guam/Saipan, then at least the two points above would make better sense to me. (Granted, Unova wasn't much better either, but at least the part about being a stand alone region makes better sense.) As long as GF keeps cultivating overseas regions for the next few Generations, I'm happy.

 

[homer.homs]

After XY and then ORAS, I'm seriously considering dropping out after this gen. The constant content roller coaster is ridiculous at this point, and in combination with annualization, its hurting me even more. I mean we went from a game with a barebones single player, little post game, no real sidequest and a limited interaction with the world. Then a year later, with ORAS, you got from what we know so far, a month away:
-Secret Bases
-Contests
-Overworld Flying with exploration on uncharted parts.
-A Pokenav that would rival the Poketch. It has everything from the Habitat Dex to the Trainer Eye. It comes with a new sneaking method to catch wild Pokemon visible on the OW. Complete with moveset hints and abilities.

See what I mean? They barely made an effort with XY, or at least didn't have a chance to. Why? Well, maybe its cause of these games, or its because they had to get something out by the end of 2013. All I know is that most if not all of this likely will get cut out by gen 7, and I just can't deal with the lack of Content Parity within a series.

Basically, X/Y is not really a good series to start for Gen VI. Though it has upside features(improved breeding system, actual mons interaction through PokemonAmie, etc.), but generally, 60% are already a downside(storyline and plot, gym leaders, side quest, post game features, etc.). But it doesn't mean I have to drop out. It is not enough reason for me to quit in something that I still enjoy. IMO, the "constant content roller coaster" is somehow true, but I'm still curious if these whole thing is really a roller coaster, or not. That's why I will play the game. AFter that, then let's make all our comments and critics. But right now, even though the release is just a month away, I think, it is too early to say any negative thing about the series.

I'm definitely losing interest in the series because of the content roller coaster and because of the shift towards being a casual kids' game. And really the content roller coaster thing has gotten worse since 5th gen, since most of the features they removed in those games were minor things that wouldn't really be missed or had a regional counterpart that performed a similar function. 5th gen is when they started stripping away actual content.

What actual content? You may want to be specific because what I think may not be the same with you.

I'm definitely losing interest in the series because of the content roller coaster and because of the shift towards being a casual kids' game.

Hasn't Pokemon always been a casual kids' game? :s

What was it before?

Not to the degree that it is in 5th and 6th gen. That was when they started decreasing the difficulty, removing content, and dumbing down everything. Before 5th gen I would've described Pokemon as being "general audience" but now that it's lost a great deal of depth and challenge it's more explicitly aimed at kids and casuals.

Basically, Pokemon are built for kids way back 1999. So I guess, it hasn't change even in the present. But what I noticed is that, every Generation, it is becoming more like a "grown ups" game than kid's game. Why? This is because of the introduction of certain features like EVs, IVs, advance breeding and battle system, etc, that only grown ups can understand and those features are not present when Pokemon was introduced for kids. IMO, Pokemon game introduced some features that only grown ups can understand and some features that are difficult for a kid to grasp but they decided to make it easy for kids. DexNav is the easiest way to catch Pokemon in the fields. These are not for grown ups because grown ups can handle Pokemon catching even in the hardest possible way. But kids? I don't think so. For me, breeding and battling are the features of the game that built for grown ups. That's the most interesting par of the game for me. These kid feature thing? I can only use that while doing the play through and it's not that important for me.

FINAL WORDS: I don't know, but maybe, I will never be burned out of this game even after ORAS. As I said, these reasons are not enough for me to quit on something that I currently enjoying. Especially now that there are new things to enjoy. It is all base on our own perspective.

 

[Bolt Strike]

What actual content? You may want to be specific because what I think may not be the same with you.

Before 5th gen, when they replaced something, it was either not significant or had a regional counterpart. But then 5th gen happened, and then we lost things like Secret Bases and Trainer Rematches. Where's the regional counterpart for those? And then XY made things worse by removing Contests too and had basically nothing.

Basically, Pokemon are built for kids way back 1999.

But the older ones are more enjoyable to adults and hardcore gamers. Nowadays? Not so much, things like linear region design, decreasing AI, limits on trainer roster size, and accelerated pacing turn those audiences off to the series. The point I was trying to make was that they narrowed their target audience in 5th gen, whereas in 1st-4th gen it could appeal to just about everyone, the more recent games are designed only with kids and casuals in mind and aside from some minor fanservice (such as Mega Evolution), they don't really seem to care that much about older audiences.

So I guess, it hasn't change even in the present. But what I noticed is that, every Generation, it is becoming more like a "grown ups" game than kid's game. Why? This is because of the introduction of certain features like EVs, IVs, advance breeding and battle system, etc, that only grown ups can understand and those features are not present when Pokemon was introduced for kids. IMO, Pokemon game introduced some features that only grown ups can understand and some features that are difficult for a kid to grasp but they decided to make it easy for kids.

Most of those mechanics are hidden and you don't really need them to beat the game. This is the approach I wish other aspects of the game like region design and difficulty were handled, not in the way to confuse little kids or prolong the game for casuals, but the option is on the table for those that want a deeper and more satisfying game. Instead of shoving a streamlined, quick and easy game down our throats, which is the exact opposite of what people want in an RPG in the first place.

DexNav is the easiest way to catch Pokemon in the fields. These are not for grown ups because grown ups can handle Pokemon catching even in the hardest possible way. But kids? I don't think so. For me, breeding and battling are the features of the game that built for grown ups. That's the most interesting par of the game for me. These kid feature thing? I can only use that while doing the play through and it's not that important for me.

See, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about? They're making the game easier and easier. But I'm more okay with this feature because it's not mandatory and there's other uses for it (such as finding HAs and Egg moves).